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Good deals on ebay?

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Anonymous
March 18, 2005 5:19:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Hey all,

It's been about 15 years since I gave up photography as a hobby. Now I
want to get back into it. I've been eyeing up the Canon EOS 20D, and
doing some research before purchasing that or something else.

There seems to be some great deals on ebay. Several outfits are selling
packages for $1500 to $2000; includes body, two or three lenses, 1 or 2
GB flash drive, etc., etc.

A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
equipment and not gray market. Additionally, one was a authorized Canon
dealer.

So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
lens for around $1500.

Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
warranty?

Thanks,
Mike

More about : good deals ebay

Anonymous
March 18, 2005 6:35:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Robert Bobb wrote:
> Hey all,
>
> It's been about 15 years since I gave up photography as a hobby. Now I
> want to get back into it. I've been eyeing up the Canon EOS 20D, and
> doing some research before purchasing that or something else.
>
> There seems to be some great deals on ebay. Several outfits are selling
> packages for $1500 to $2000; includes body, two or three lenses, 1 or 2
> GB flash drive, etc., etc.
>
> A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
> equipment and not gray market. Additionally, one was a authorized Canon
> dealer.
>
> So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
> brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
> Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
> lens for around $1500.
>
> Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
> warranty?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

Consider this:

When buying through e-Bay, a seller may over state what is being
auctioned and upon delivery you find that the item is not quite what you
expected, you're at the mercy of the seller who will make the
determination if you are to send it back for a refund or the item is now
yours to keep.

You may elect to make a negative entry as a warning to others, in the
sellers folder, which the seller will respond to, but people will ignore
the negative entry, or warning, and deal with the seller anyway. I think
the common assumption is, that guy has been had but it won't happen to
me. If ego had a commercial value, we would all be rich.

If you've been had, e-Bay will not intercede. You will have the option,
for a fee, to have a mediator try to get both parties to talk but if the
seller refuses, nothing will come of the mediators actions but you still
have to pay a fee to the mediator.

I have friends who have been had and through what I know of their
experiences, I would advise you to deal with reputable establishments.
From what I have been told, the seller has the advantage over the
buyer, it's pay first before you get the item. To possibly reverse the
advantage, the buyer will need the services of an attorney.

There are sellers who will allow a buyer to return an item if the buyer
is not satisfied and they say so in their listing. Still, IMO, I would
advise dealing with reputable establishments.
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 8:41:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Robert Bobb" <bobby@bobby.com> wrote in message
news:iqidnVEsKfDtqqbfRVn-sw@bright.net...
> Hey all,
>
> It's been about 15 years since I gave up photography as a hobby. Now I
> want to get back into it. I've been eyeing up the Canon EOS 20D, and
> doing some research before purchasing that or something else.
>
> There seems to be some great deals on ebay. Several outfits are selling
> packages for $1500 to $2000; includes body, two or three lenses, 1 or 2 GB
> flash drive, etc., etc.
>
> A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
> equipment and not gray market. Additionally, one was a authorized Canon
> dealer.
>
> So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
> brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
> Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
> lens for around $1500.
>
> Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
> warranty?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike

I've never been burned on eBay, but I got my camera at Circuit City. It was
on sale, and with the rebate from Nikon I got a damn good deal (haven't
received the rebate yet).

What sometimes happens on eBay, and some sellers you see in the back of some
computer and camera magazines, is that the seller will take the box the
product comes in and sell each piece individually. You get exactly what was
advertised, but without the extras the manufacturer included with the
package. That will cost you extra.

They also put together packages that seem too good to be true, by combining
off-brand lenses with the camera body, making it look as though you are
getting a real bargain. Unfortunately, the quality of the lenses included
don't come close to the real thing.

Gray market cameras and lenses are simply cameras that were not meant to be
sold in the US. Often you get no warranty with the camera or lens, and you
are on your own if something goes wrong. Now, this isn't always the case.
B&H does sell gray market products, labels them clearly and offers a reduced
warranty on the item. I would trust B&H to back up anything they sell, to
the limit of the warranty offered.

I think you just have to read the fine print carefully when buying on eBay,
and look hard at the sellers feedback. You just have to assume that most
people are honest, but still be on your toes.
Related resources
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 9:18:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Thanks for the advice Nick. One particular seller I was looking at is
an authorized Canon dealer (verified through Canon's website), as well
as a Better Business Bureau Online member (also verified).
Additionally, this seller had a really good rating on ebay.

I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has purchased
equipment through ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have been.

There's a several hundred dollar difference between those packages on
ebay and what I would pay if I'd buy it all piece-meal through a local
retailer, which is nothing to sneeze at.

nick c wrote:
> There are sellers who will allow a buyer to return an item if the buyer
> is not satisfied and they say so in their listing. Still, IMO, I would
> advise dealing with reputable establishments.
>
>
>
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 9:40:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Robert Bobb wrote:
> Thanks for the advice Nick. One particvlar seller I was looking at is
> an avthorized Canon dealer (verified throvgh Canon's website), as well
> as a Better Bvsiness Bvreav Online member (also verified).
> Additionally, this seller had a really good rating on ebay.
>
> I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has pvrchased
> eqvipment throvgh ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have
> been.
> There's a several hvndred dollar difference between those packages on
> ebay and what I wovld pay if I'd bvy it all piece-meal throvgh a local
> retailer, which is nothing to sneeze at.
>
> nick c wrote:
>> There are sellers who will allow a bvyer to retvrn an item if the
>> bvyer is not satisfied and they say so in their listing. Still, IMO,
>> I wovld advise dealing with repvtable establishments.

I have left feedback in more than 1,400 eBay transactions, decided
against it in a dozen more. I think I lost money in fewer than ten.
Losses were dve almost exclvsively to my failvre to read before
clicking. Total loss wovld be less than a hvndred dollars, bvt the pain
was from feeling the fool. Total expenditvres over six years, close to
thirty thovsand dollars, two thovsand of that on photo eqvipment in the
past three months.

The vsefvl techniqves are common sense: bvy with intellect, not emotion;
keep yovr eyes open and yovr pvrse closed vnless yov are certain; don't
hesitate to ask qvestions of the sellers; bid only when all the terms
are satisfactory to yov; recognize the likelihood of loss, bvt don't
obsess over it; remember yov are pretty mvch on yovr own (eBay and
PayPal and yovr credit card company might render assistance, bvt don't
covnt on it); always give the benefit of the dovbt (late deliveries are
probably oversights, not wilfvl - I sent an email "I hope I gave yov the
right address, my item hasn't arrived yet" or some svch on the few
occasions it was necessary )(like last week - he said PayPal failed to
notify him of a payment I sent, bvt he has the responsibility to monitor
that); if yov have qvestions abovt anything eBay, the answers can be
fovnd in the knowledge of the denizens of alt.marketing.online.ebay.

Never, ever, pay for anything by Western Union, the scammers' greatest
ally.

Yov will find feedback ratings are vsefvl, and yov may want to evalvate
them with this in mind: 97% positive sovnds pretty good, vntil yov
notice that means yovr chances of experiencing a transaction that makes
yov want to give a negative is three in a hvndred. There is almost
certainly another seller of the same item who has 100% positive
feedback. Of covrse if yov are like me and yov set yovr sights on that
stvffed naked mole rat, yov're svre there is none other like it, yov'll
throw cavtion (and money) to the winds.

Back in the day people didn't know the valve of many of the
clean-the-closet items they pvt vp for bid. Over time almost all valves
have become known to anyone who really wants to know them. The
transition has reached the point where a majority of offers on eBay are
jvst like the ones at yovr neighborhood store: the difference is
probably in convenience, not price or vniqveness. It's a rare occvrrence
when a genvine bargain is available on eBay and nowhere else. As opposed
to the way it vsed to be, when yov covld keep a sharp eye ovt and make a
genvine "find" on the basis of yovr alertness and knowledge. That kind
of thing is remotely possible, bvt vsvally more trovble than it is
worth, these days.

Any road, it's a challenge, and can be fvn and rewarding. Don't let it
scare yov, bvt don't let it roll over yov, either.


--
Frank ess


--
Frank ess
Anonymous
March 18, 2005 11:32:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 14:19:51 -0600, Robert Bobb <bobby@bobby.com> wrote:
>
> A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
> equipment and not gray market.

I wouldn't necessarily just take their word for it. But I don't
know how they could prove it in advance, either.

> So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
> brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
> Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
> lens for around $1500.

I got mine at newegg.com; oddly, newegg's price has gone *up* since then,
to the same as Adorama's.

> Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
> warranty?

It means that the item was not imported by Canon's USA distributor.
Sometimes these are referred to as "parallel imports".

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 1:39:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Check out Amazon.com for deals also. Not an auction site as all deals are
"buy now".
Amazon will re-imburse you if you get robbed by a crook, with some
limitations. 3 refunds per lifetime.
Check the site for details. You still need to check feedback before buying
and read the item description carefully.
Watch for "representative pictures" and "stock photos" which are NOT of the
actual item that you are buying.
Be aware that pictured items are usually NOT included unless specifically
stated in the description.
Finally, watch for predatory shipping, handling and insurance charges. I
have seen the same camera shipped for $16 from one source and $75 from
another!
Check for best prices and vendor ratings on www.resellerratings.com . There
are a lot of very reputable vendors and a few real crooks brought under the
spotlight there. Look at the total number of lifetime ratings when you are
checking vendors. Some vendors will have a few "schills" try to pump up
their ratings. Vendors with hundreds of favorable ratings over several years
are probably worth a few dollars more, just for peace of mind.
Good luck...

"Robert Bobb" <bobby@bobby.com> wrote in message
news:iqidnVEsKfDtqqbfRVn-sw@bright.net...
> Hey all,
>
> It's been about 15 years since I gave up photography as a hobby. Now I
> want to get back into it. I've been eyeing up the Canon EOS 20D, and
> doing some research before purchasing that or something else.
>
> There seems to be some great deals on ebay. Several outfits are selling
> packages for $1500 to $2000; includes body, two or three lenses, 1 or 2
> GB flash drive, etc., etc.
>
> A couple of auctions that I looked at closely said that it is new
> equipment and not gray market. Additionally, one was a authorized Canon
> dealer.
>
> So, can you find good deals on ebay? Or is it too good to be true? The
> brick-and-mortor retailers that I visited (Best Buy, Sears, Sam's Club,
> Ritz, etc.) all sell the body alone, or the body with the Canon 18-55mm
> lens for around $1500.
>
> Also - What exactly does "gray market" mean, besides voiding the OEM
> warranty?
>
> Thanks,
> Mike
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 1:51:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Robert Bobb" <bobby@bobby.com> wrote in message
news:ILmdnaCx0rrU8qbfRVn-pg@bright.net...
> Thanks for the advice Nick. One particular seller I was looking at is
> an authorized Canon dealer (verified through Canon's website), as well
> as a Better Business Bureau Online member (also verified).
> Additionally, this seller had a really good rating on ebay.
>
> I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has purchased
> equipment through ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have
been.
>
> There's a several hundred dollar difference between those packages on
> ebay and what I would pay if I'd buy it all piece-meal through a local
> retailer, which is nothing to sneeze at.
>
> nick c wrote:
> > There are sellers who will allow a buyer to return an item if the buyer
> > is not satisfied and they say so in their listing. Still, IMO, I would
> > advise dealing with reputable establishments.

Only new item I bought from Ebay was a cheesy zoom I bought for my brother
from Cameta Camera. They do have a pretty good rep. The lens I got was not
available anywhere else. I got what I ordered, and it was as described.
Other than that, I would not buy new from EBay. I do buy used equipment
there however.

If you actually research the prices for what you're getting, you almost
always buy cheaper from a regular dealer. For instance, Cameta is selling a
20d kit (18-55) with a 1GB Lexar card a few other cheapy items for $1599 on
EBay. Adorama sells the same kit for $1429. I doubt the flash card, a small
case and card reader are worth $170. I know you can get the flash for under
$100. At best, your not saving anything, and you have to screw with EBay.
Not really worth it.
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 3:19:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 18 Mar 2005 18:18:09 -0600, Robert Bobb <bobby@bobby.com> wrote:
> Thanks for the advice Nick. One particular seller I was looking at is
> an authorized Canon dealer (verified through Canon's website), as well
> as a Better Business Bureau Online member (also verified).
> Additionally, this seller had a really good rating on ebay.
>
> I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has purchased
> equipment through ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have been.

I've spent a fair bit of money on eBay on this and that -- though
never photo equipment, so far.

I look for sellers who not only have good ratings, but who have sold
similar items in the past. This is to avoid scammers who sell lots
of little things, rack up some good ratings, and then pull a scam
with a big-ticket item.

I've never been burned. So I think that if you do your homework and
avoid "too good to be true" deals, you can do very well on eBay.

Good luck.

Regards,

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 4:39:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

What about just using an escrow service? What are the downsides besides
the cost? Is it relatively foolproof?
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 4:39:28 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

some guy wrote:
> What about just using an escrow service? What are the downsides besides
> the cost? Is it relatively foolproof?
>
>

I don't know anyone who has used the escrow service. I do know someone
who bought a special type remote control unit that was posted as having
the using instructions to show how to setup the control unit. When he
received the remote control there were no using instructions. Without
the using instruction, the control can't be used. Contact with the
seller was useless.
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 12:09:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Robert Bobb" <bobby@bobby.com> wrote in message
news:ILmdnaCx0rrU8qbfRVn-pg@bright.net...
> Thanks for the advice Nick. One particular seller I was looking at is an
> authorized Canon dealer (verified through Canon's website), as well as a
> Better Business Bureau Online member (also verified). Additionally, this
> seller had a really good rating on ebay.
>
> I'd be really interested in hearing from anyone that has purchased
> equipment through ebay and what their experiences (good and bad) have
> been.

All of my camera gear was bought on ebay, from a 300D with lens (new, in
shrink-wrapped box, UK sourced and guaranteed by Canon.) on which I saved
over £100. I have five lenses, angle finder, RC 1, CF cards, spare
batteries, LCD protectors all bought at significantly lower prices. I have
also bought two cars, both excellent.
I have sold Mamiya RB and Olympus OM cameras and lenses, getting better
prices than I would have got in exchange deals.

In all but two cases purchases were delivered next day by Special Delivery.
The other two were delivered inside a week from Japan.
I buy other goods from China, Japan, USA, Holland and Canada. I also sell
surplus gear.

I have had two problems in 270 deals.
One was a mis-described flash gun. I got a full refund.
One was a student who cashed my cheque but didn't send the goods. I used the
dispute service, without paying an arbitration fee, and got my money back.

Most ebayers are great people. If I eventually have a problem and lose out
.... so what? I am quids in and can stand an eventual loss. But I don't
really expect it to happen.

(As an aside, why did I go from RB large format & OM to a plastic Canon?
I'm getting older and the weight of the 300D compared with the 20D swung
it.)
Anonymous
March 19, 2005 11:31:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

>> What about just using an escrow service? What are the downsides
>> besides the cost? Is it relatively foolproof?
>
> I don't know anyone who has used the escrow service. I do know someone
> who bought a special type remote control unit that was posted as
> having the using instructions to show how to setup the control unit.
> When he received the remote control there were no using instructions.
> Without the using instruction, the control can't be used. Contact
> with the seller was useless.

So if there's someone who has used an escrow service and can comment on
its downsides (I guess one would be that it delays the whole transaction
on the part of the seller getting his money), that would be great. Its
upsides are obvious. Theoretically perfect transaction.
Anonymous
March 20, 2005 1:10:30 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"some guy" <nospam@spam.com> wrote in message
news:3a45jlF67q6t3U1@individual.net...
>
> So if there's someone who has used an escrow service and can comment on
> its downsides (I guess one would be that it delays the whole transaction
> on the part of the seller getting his money), that would be great. Its
> upsides are obvious. Theoretically perfect transaction.
>
>

I used an escrow service when selling my timeshare. The downside was cost
and time. The upside was peace of mind for both sides. I highly recommend
it, but be aware that some sellers won't use the service, regardless of who
pays.

If you decide to use an escrow service, agree with the other party on the
terms first, because you have to be very specific when setting up the
escrow. The terms can not be changed once both parties agree to them.

BTW, I've also purchased two cars on eBay (in addition to several cameras,
etc.) without using inspectors or escrow services and had no problems at
all. I find feedback and communication to be the best judge of a seller or
buyer's integrity.

Walt
Anonymous
March 20, 2005 7:11:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Walt Hanks wrote:
> "some guy" <nospam@spam.com> wrote in message
> news:3a45jlF67q6t3U1@individual.net...
>
>>So if there's someone who has used an escrow service and can comment on
>>its downsides (I guess one would be that it delays the whole transaction
>>on the part of the seller getting his money), that would be great. Its
>>upsides are obvious. Theoretically perfect transaction.
>>
>>
>
>
> I used an escrow service when selling my timeshare. The downside was cost
> and time. The upside was peace of mind for both sides. I highly recommend
> it, but be aware that some sellers won't use the service, regardless of who
> pays.
>
> If you decide to use an escrow service, agree with the other party on the
> terms first, because you have to be very specific when setting up the
> escrow. The terms can not be changed once both parties agree to them.
>
> BTW, I've also purchased two cars on eBay (in addition to several cameras,
> etc.) without using inspectors or escrow services and had no problems at
> all. I find feedback and communication to be the best judge of a seller or
> buyer's integrity.
>
> Walt
>
>

Bought cameras? That reminds me of the camera I bought, about a year or
so ago. I think back on the event now and think it a bit humorous.

I saw a Nikon FA being auctioned and saw that the seller was located in
Texas. The post said the camera was in mint condition and would be
shipped in the original box with all the papers. "Wow", I though. "Gotta
get it" and I did. I high bid the auction.

I contacted the seller and soon sent what I owed the seller. Some weeks
later, the camera arrived. It looked in mint condition and worked
perfectly. I immediately saw that all the paperwork and the instruction
manual was in French. I looked at the postage and it was mailed from France.
!