Exalted: Primordials and Abilities

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It has been suggested that each Primordial is associated with a
different Ability; for example, the Ebon Dragon is commonly associated
with Resistance. Does anybody have any other suspected links? (I think
that Autochthon would probably line up with Craft, and Gaia with
Survival...)
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Richard Clayton wrote:

> It has been suggested that each Primordial is associated with a
> different Ability; for example, the Ebon Dragon is commonly associated
> with Resistance. Does anybody have any other suspected links? (I think
> that Autochthon would probably line up with Craft, and Gaia with
> Survival...)

The more common suggestion is that Gaia and Autochthon each line up with
one of Occult and Martial Arts, since Occult and MA charms work
different from other Charms, and Gaia and Autochthon are the only two
remaining free Primordials.

But Autochthon and Craft make sense, too, and if Sorcery is
demon-granted like the theories go, it'd make sense for it to be
aspected to a Yozi.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike

 

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Stephenls wrote:

> Richard Clayton wrote:
>
>> It has been suggested that each Primordial is associated with a
>> different Ability; for example, the Ebon Dragon is commonly associated
>> with Resistance. Does anybody have any other suspected links? (I think
>> that Autochthon would probably line up with Craft, and Gaia with
>> Survival...)
>
>
> The more common suggestion is that Gaia and Autochthon each line up with
> one of Occult and Martial Arts, since Occult and MA charms work
> different from other Charms, and Gaia and Autochthon are the only two
> remaining free Primordials.
>
> But Autochthon and Craft make sense, too, and if Sorcery is
> demon-granted like the theories go, it'd make sense for it to be
> aspected to a Yozi.

The trouble with the "sorcery is demonic" hypothesis, however, is that
the Exalted may have had sorcery during the Primordial War. It wouldn't
make sense for the Primordials to grant power enhancements to people
being trained by the gods to destroy them. That said, I don't have
/Bo3C/ handy, so I can't look up the exact text. Yes, I know the
reference was quite deliberate, but it may just be a tantalizing hint.
We've been fooled before.
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[Guest]

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Richard Clayton wrote:

> The trouble with the "sorcery is demonic" hypothesis, however, is
> that the Exalted may have had sorcery during the Primordial War. It
> wouldn't make sense for the Primordials to grant power enhancements to
> people being trained by the gods to destroy them. That said, I don't
> have /Bo3C/ handy, so I can't look up the exact text. Yes, I know the
> reference was quite deliberate, but it may just be a tantalizing hint.
> We've been fooled before.

The first five spells were Death of Obsidian Butterflies, Demon of the
First Circle, Emerald Countermagic, Invulnerable Skin of Bronze, and
Stormwind Rider.

Logically speaking, Demon of the First Circle doesn't make sense in a
world where the Yozis aren't confined to Malfeas. So there was no
sorcery during the Primordial War. Thus, sorcery might come from the
Yozis. We're not sure, but there's one potential argument against it
struck down.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike

 

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Stephenls wrote:
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>
>> The trouble with the "sorcery is demonic" hypothesis, however, is
>> that the Exalted may have had sorcery during the Primordial War. It
>> wouldn't make sense for the Primordials to grant power enhancements to
>> people being trained by the gods to destroy them. That said, I don't
>> have /Bo3C/ handy, so I can't look up the exact text. Yes, I know the
>> reference was quite deliberate, but it may just be a tantalizing hint.
>> We've been fooled before.
>
>
> The first five spells were Death of Obsidian Butterflies, Demon of the
> First Circle, Emerald Countermagic, Invulnerable Skin of Bronze, and
> Stormwind Rider.
>
> Logically speaking, Demon of the First Circle doesn't make sense in a
> world where the Yozis aren't confined to Malfeas. So there was no
> sorcery during the Primordial War. Thus, sorcery might come from the
> Yozis. We're not sure, but there's one potential argument against it
> struck down.

Huh. Point.
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[Guest]

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Richard Clayton wrote:
> Stephenls wrote:
>
>> Richard Clayton wrote:
>>
>>> The trouble with the "sorcery is demonic" hypothesis, however, is
>>> that the Exalted may have had sorcery during the Primordial War. It
>>> wouldn't make sense for the Primordials to grant power enhancements
>>> to people being trained by the gods to destroy them. That said, I
>>> don't have /Bo3C/ handy, so I can't look up the exact text. Yes, I
>>> know the reference was quite deliberate, but it may just be a
>>> tantalizing hint. We've been fooled before.
>>
>>
>>
>> The first five spells were Death of Obsidian Butterflies, Demon of the
>> First Circle, Emerald Countermagic, Invulnerable Skin of Bronze, and
>> Stormwind Rider.
>>
>> Logically speaking, Demon of the First Circle doesn't make sense in a
>> world where the Yozis aren't confined to Malfeas. So there was no
>> sorcery during the Primordial War. Thus, sorcery might come from the
>> Yozis. We're not sure, but there's one potential argument against it
>> struck down.
>
>
> Huh. Point.

No, wait a minute. When the surviving Primordials were banished, they
were deliberately re-engineered such that they could be summoned back.
What would be the point in doing this if sorcery capable of calling them
forth didn't yet exist?
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[Guest]

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Richard Clayton wrote:

> No, wait a minute. When the surviving Primordials were banished,
> they were deliberately re-engineered such that they could be summoned
> back. What would be the point in doing this if sorcery capable of
> calling them forth didn't yet exist?

They were deliberately re-engineered so they could be summoned back /by
the Celestines/, but Exalts didn't get that power until Bridgit made her
quest. It's possible the Yozis themselves gave the Exalts that power by
exploiting their link to the Celestines.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"I'm as impure as the driven yellow snow." -Spike

 

[Guest]

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Stephenls wrote:

> Richard Clayton wrote:
>
>> No, wait a minute. When the surviving Primordials were banished,
>> they were deliberately re-engineered such that they could be summoned
>> back. What would be the point in doing this if sorcery capable of
>> calling them forth didn't yet exist?
>
> They were deliberately re-engineered so they could be summoned back /by
> the Celestines/, but Exalts didn't get that power until Bridgit made her
> quest. It's possible the Yozis themselves gave the Exalts that power by
> exploiting their link to the Celestines.

Again, I'm visiting my parents so I don't have the exact text handy,
but I think /Sorcerer and Savant/ contraindicates that. If I recall
correctly, it mentions that the banished Primordials and their lesser
selves were twisted with servitude to the gods' new order in mind:
Dragon-Blooded can only summon the least of the demons, Celestial
Exalted can call upon the second circle, while the Solars can demand
obedience from primary souls of the Yozis. The Yozis themselves can only
be called forth by a joint effort of the Unconquered Sun and the Maiden
of Secrets.

/SaS/ gives no indication that it wasn't always this way and gives
every indication this was the explicit goal from the start.
--
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Stephenls wrote:
>
> Richard Clayton wrote:
>
> > It has been suggested that each Primordial is associated with a
> > different Ability; for example, the Ebon Dragon is commonly associated
> > with Resistance. Does anybody have any other suspected links? (I think
> > that Autochthon would probably line up with Craft, and Gaia with
> > Survival...)
>
> The more common suggestion is that Gaia and Autochthon each line up with
> one of Occult and Martial Arts, since Occult and MA charms work
> different from other Charms, and Gaia and Autochthon are the only two
> remaining free Primordials.

I don't think it's likely that Occult has anything to do with any free
Primordials.

> But Autochthon and Craft make sense, too, and if Sorcery is
> demon-granted like the theories go, it'd make sense for it to be
> aspected to a Yozi.

Exactly.

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Richard Clayton wrote:
>
> The trouble with the "sorcery is demonic" hypothesis, however, is that
> the Exalted may have had sorcery during the Primordial War. It wouldn't
> make sense for the Primordials to grant power enhancements to people
> being trained by the gods to destroy them. That said, I don't have
> /Bo3C/ handy, so I can't look up the exact text. Yes, I know the
> reference was quite deliberate, but it may just be a tantalizing hint.
> We've been fooled before.

If it's demon-granted, it more than likely was granted after the
Primordial War.

But, really, what is the best tool in Creation for allowing the 3rd
Circle Demons to enter Creation?

--
Elizabeth D. Brooks | kali.magdalene@comcast.net | US2002021724
Listowner: Aberrants_Worldwide, Fading_Suns_Games, TrinityRPG
AeonAdventure | "Dobby likes us!" -- Smeagol
-- http://www.theonering.net/scrapbook/view/6856