Wireless USB 2.0

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

From: "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca>

|
| I see that a wireless USB 2 spec is being finalized. I'd love to have a
| wireless device go under my camera, hook up to the USB port, and DL
| directly to a computer or laptop not too far away. The USB cable
| supplied with the camera is very short (5 ft) and the max length of USB
| (by spec) is 3 or 5 meters (depending on speed).
|
| Wireless capable of, say, 20 - 30 metres would be dandy.
|
| http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/41049.html
|
| Cheers,
| Alan
| --
| -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
| -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
| -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
| -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

But the camera would not have the drivers needed to drive a wireless USB interface
therefore -- forget the idea.


--
Dave
http://www.claymania.com/removal-trojan-adware.html
http://www.ik-cs.com/got-a-virus.htm

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 08:11:02 -0500, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>David H. Lipman wrote:
>
>
>> But the camera would not have the drivers needed to drive a wireless USB interface
>> therefore -- forget the idea.
>
>If properly done, the camera would not even know the wire was missing.
>
>Otherwise, K-M would sell an adaptor to do the job, I would be just as
>happy.
>
>Cheers,
>Alan

I agree,, for instance my 20d comes with software that operates the
camera when tethered (usb cable). As a black box - the wireless
replaces the usb and is developed to handle and transmit the
camera output. It's drivers in turn are used pc/laptop side to
hand off to the computer -which then applies the camera drivers
/or generic drivers to the cam's original output (per sae) sig. Thats
the purpose of driver - to relate to the kernel which relates to the
overall os (old techanyway). A pipe is a pipe kinda idea. I think it's
exciting. I would love to be able to take, say, landscapes or work in
the field with a laptop and use the comp to configure the cam - and
view it's output on a big screen. I would like to see a mount for a
tripod integrated into this(servo)..and then this system utilize
software to take multiple and coordinated images - and combine them;
and in this fashion greatly multiply the camera's capability for dof,
image size, color attribute..you name it. It's not a new idea, but
would be a new aplication to the private "small"user of technology.

The was a thread previously that debated the the virtues of particular
format lens and sensor sizes. The notion that the camera can be
extended via this type of system i think in the long run is salient.
The addition to further logic and memory environments, and
associated mechanisms offer some immense capabilities.

The networks are an example of this type of solution.

The economics of propriety and that of demand seem to have the final
say; and there are examples on both sides of the aisle.

But to digress..can be done.

rgds
Ken

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> writes:

> I see that a wireless USB 2 spec is being finalized. I'd love to have a
> wireless device go under my camera, hook up to the USB port, and DL
> directly to a computer or laptop not too far away. The USB cable
> supplied with the camera is very short (5 ft) and the max length of USB
> (by spec) is 3 or 5 meters (depending on speed).
>
> Wireless capable of, say, 20 - 30 metres would be dandy.
>
> http://www.linuxinsider.com/rsstory/41049.html

Get a high end Nikon (D2H/D2X) or Canon DSLR (1D/mark2, 1Ds/mark2), they
already have an attachment that sits on the camera, and transfers files in the
background via 802.11.

Another option is to get two memory cards and a Jobo Giga Vu Pro portable
storage device (PSD), which can use an 802.11 compact flash card. Upload the
first card to the PSD, and then switch to the wireless card and upload the
files to your laptop while shooting with the second card.

--
Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:52:37 -0500, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Michael Meissner wrote:
>
>> Get a high end Nikon (D2H/D2X) or Canon DSLR (1D/mark2, 1Ds/mark2), they
>> already have an attachment that sits on the camera, and transfers files in the
>> background via 802.11.
>
>I await your cheque in the appropriate amount to support my needs. That
>should include replacements for my glass as well: 20mm f/2.8, 50 f/1.7,
>28-70 f/2.8, 100 f/2.8 macro, 80-200 f/2.8 and 300 f/2.8.
>
>I'm sure that an add on mass-market device will be much less costly.

Something like a CF card (that can fit the majority of DSLRs) that is
capable of doing a 802.11 store-and-forward would be neat.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:37:22 -0500, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Owamanga wrote:
>
>
>> <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm sure that an add on mass-market device will be much less costly.
>>
>>
>> Something like a CF card (that can fit the majority of DSLRs) that is
>> capable of doing a 802.11 store-and-forward would be neat.
>
>Either way. I'm shooting a small fashion show in a couple weeks. It
>would have been cool to wirelessly transfer the images to a laptop and
>simulataneously project the shots on a screen on the side. (In the
>remote storage mode of the camera). As it is I'll have a sync cable in
>my way...

One thing I am sure of: Technology *will* catch up. With a broadband
net connection and the right hardware, the images will be appearing at
the agency's desk seconds after you press the button.

For a joke, take 50 or so images with a really tight DOF, all focused
on the girl's breasts / guys pants and submit them as the complete set
- just to see the reaction you get. Ahh, the fun of digitoys...

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:37:22 -0500, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Owamanga wrote:
>
>
>> <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>I'm sure that an add on mass-market device will be much less costly.
>>
>>
>> Something like a CF card (that can fit the majority of DSLRs) that is
>> capable of doing a 802.11 store-and-forward would be neat.
>
>Either way. I'm shooting a small fashion show in a couple weeks. It
>would have been cool to wirelessly transfer the images to a laptop and
>simulataneously project the shots on a screen on the side. (In the
>remote storage mode of the camera). As it is I'll have a sync cable in
>my way...
>
>Cheers,
>Alan.

I would think that if your cam supports real time usb connect - Like
the 20D with eos capture, then it's feasible to do. Fixed cam to cover
a field, tether (usb cord) to laptop and capture util; and laptop set
to external video monitor...(you'll see it on the laptop too
generally. At that point...there are video wireless remotes (rabbits
maybe). The essential is - does your camera do this? and can
you operate the laptop. Otherwise it gets more involved.

I agree a truly integrated solution would be better. It's fun to
dream.

rgds

Ken

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> writes:

> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:52:37 -0500, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
> >Michael Meissner wrote:
> >
> >> Get a high end Nikon (D2H/D2X) or Canon DSLR (1D/mark2, 1Ds/mark2), they
> >> already have an attachment that sits on the camera, and transfers files in the
> >> background via 802.11.
> >
> >I await your cheque in the appropriate amount to support my needs. That
> >should include replacements for my glass as well: 20mm f/2.8, 50 f/1.7,
> >28-70 f/2.8, 100 f/2.8 macro, 80-200 f/2.8 and 300 f/2.8.
> >
> >I'm sure that an add on mass-market device will be much less costly.
>
> Something like a CF card (that can fit the majority of DSLRs) that is
> capable of doing a 802.11 store-and-forward would be neat.

The problem is most cameras that I'm aware of want the memory card door closed
in order to operate (and Panasonics put the memory card door underneath the
camera). I suspect you would need more space than a current CF card allows for
anntena, and whether there is enough juice provided by the camera to do radio
waves is another question.

--
Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ken Ellis wrote:

> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 12:37:22 -0500, Alan Browne
> <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>
>>Owamanga wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>>><alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>>I'm sure that an add on mass-market device will be much less costly.
>>>
>>>
>>>Something like a CF card (that can fit the majority of DSLRs) that is
>>>capable of doing a 802.11 store-and-forward would be neat.
>>
>>Either way. I'm shooting a small fashion show in a couple weeks. It
>>would have been cool to wirelessly transfer the images to a laptop and
>>simulataneously project the shots on a screen on the side. (In the
>>remote storage mode of the camera). As it is I'll have a sync cable in
>>my way...
>>
>>Cheers,
>>Alan.
>
>
> I would think that if your cam supports real time usb connect - Like
> the 20D with eos capture, then it's feasible to do. Fixed cam to cover
> a field, tether (usb cord) to laptop and capture util; and laptop set
> to external video monitor...(you'll see it on the laptop too
> generally. At that point...there are video wireless remotes (rabbits
> maybe). The essential is - does your camera do this? and can
> you operate the laptop. Otherwise it gets more involved.
>
> I agree a truly integrated solution would be better. It's fun to
> dream.

I already have a sync cable to contend with. (Job has too small a
budget to rent wizards), I'm not going to add a tether to a PC. I don't
need to operate the laptop. The K-M software for remote store will also
put up full screen views as you shoot and store. You can completely
ignore it while you work. The supplied cable is 5 feet long (or rather
5 feet short).

I don't think it's a dream, just a solution that isn't cheaply available
yet.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <m31xa6oyhg.fsf@tiktok.the-meissners.org>,
Michael Meissner <mrmnews@the-meissners.org> wrote:
>Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> writes:
>
>> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:52:37 -0500, Alan Browne
>> <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

[ ... ]

>> Something like a CF card (that can fit the majority of DSLRs) that is
>> capable of doing a 802.11 store-and-forward would be neat.
>
>The problem is most cameras that I'm aware of want the memory card door closed
>in order to operate (and Panasonics put the memory card door underneath the
>camera). I suspect you would need more space than a current CF card allows for
>anntena, and whether there is enough juice provided by the camera to do radio
>waves is another question.

Hmm ... the Nikon D70 has no sensor on the CF card door, and
will happily take shots with the door open.

Also -- the door (like most of the camera body) is
Polycarbonate, so it should be pretty transparent to the RF from the
card.

If you need more space, the door is secured by two small
countersunk Phillips-head screws, so it could be removed with a proper
sized Jeweler's screwdriver. (But a card sticking out that door might
be awkward anyway, as it will be poking you in the right cheek -- unless
you are shooting left-eyed, in which case the card may well be sticking
its antenna up your nose. :-)

You could also get a spare door, which you could modify to
accept a right-angle MicroDot RF connector to lead off to the antenna.

But unless it was made for the camera, I suspect that
configuring it with the drivers and the IP address (plus encryption
(WEP) keys) would be a pain. External hubs tend to have flash memory to
retain these settings, but I think that most PCMCIA cards require the
computer to tell them what their settings are at each power-up.

But -- even if these problems are overcome, I still worry about
the drain on the camera's battery during shooting and transmission.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Kibo informs me that Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com>
stated that:

>On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:52:37 -0500, Alan Browne
><alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>Michael Meissner wrote:
>>
>>> Get a high end Nikon (D2H/D2X) or Canon DSLR (1D/mark2, 1Ds/mark2), they
>>> already have an attachment that sits on the camera, and transfers files in the
>>> background via 802.11.
>>
>>I await your cheque in the appropriate amount to support my needs. That
>>should include replacements for my glass as well: 20mm f/2.8, 50 f/1.7,
>>28-70 f/2.8, 100 f/2.8 macro, 80-200 f/2.8 and 300 f/2.8.
>>
>>I'm sure that an add on mass-market device will be much less costly.
>
>Something like a CF card (that can fit the majority of DSLRs) that is
>capable of doing a 802.11 store-and-forward would be neat.

It'd be nice if it came with a free pony, too.

(You wouldn't be able to fit the aerial parts into the CF form-factor,
much less fit in the flash memory, etc, as well. There's also the
problem that the signal would be badly attenuated by a typical CF card
slot.)

--
W
. | ,. w , "Some people are alive only because
\|/ \|/ it is illegal to kill them." Perna condita delenda est
---^----^---------------------------------------------------------------

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 16:58:51 -0500, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Ken Ellis wrote:

>>
>> I agree a truly integrated solution would be better. It's fun to
>> dream.
>
>I already have a sync cable to contend with. (Job has too small a
>budget to rent wizards), I'm not going to add a tether to a PC. I don't
>need to operate the laptop. The K-M software for remote store will also
>put up full screen views as you shoot and store. You can completely
>ignore it while you work. The supplied cable is 5 feet long (or rather
>5 feet short).
>
>I don't think it's a dream, just a solution that isn't cheaply available
>yet.
>
>Cheers,
>Alan

Sounds like you have a plan
good luck...would be interested in hearing how works out.

rgds
Ken

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:
>
> Michael Meissner wrote:
>
> > Check out how slow most camera USB ports are (USB 1.1 or even slower). And I
>
> USB 2.0 in my case (Max 7D).
>
> > suspect with most of them, the camera cannot be used while the upload is taking
> > place.
>
> This is true, but with USB 2 it will be about 1/2 - 3/4 sec per image
> (RAW+JPG) which is faster than my strobes recycle at 1/1 or 1/2 power.
>
> (USB 1.1 which I'm running right now (PC) does RAW+JPG (about 12 MB
> total) in less than 2 sec which is still faster than my strobes at 1/1).
>
> > So while it would be possible to build such a device, it is likely to
> > be too slow to use. At least with the 2 card method I menioned in the
> > paragraph you clipped off, you only need to divert your attention twice (once
> > to copy the card to the local disk of the Giga Vu, and a second time to start
> > the upload process).
>
> What I will be doing is a two card dance with a laptop and willing
> assistant (2 or 3 beers is all the pay he'll take). But when the
> technology allows, and it innevitably will, I will have a reasonable
> cost wireless solution for situations where a shots budget is
> impractical to calculate.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan.
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

If you're the only photog there, it might work, but if several guys are
shooting, all with wireless connections, and maybe wireless flash, I
would be a bit unhappy about potential interference to my shots from
their transmissions. Not to mention some pirate with a laptop receiver
snatching all your piccies while you do the work. {:-(

Colin

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <m3r7i5felb.fsf@glinda.the-meissners.org>, mrmnews@the-
meissners.org says...
> dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) writes:
>
> > In article <m31xa6oyhg.fsf@tiktok.the-meissners.org>,
> > Michael Meissner <mrmnews@the-meissners.org> wrote:
> > >Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> writes:
> > >
> > >> On Wed, 23 Mar 2005 10:52:37 -0500, Alan Browne
> > >> <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> >
> > [ ... ]
> >
> > >> Something like a CF card (that can fit the majority of DSLRs) that is
> > >> capable of doing a 802.11 store-and-forward would be neat.
> > >
> > >The problem is most cameras that I'm aware of want the memory card door closed
> > >in order to operate (and Panasonics put the memory card door underneath the
> > >camera). I suspect you would need more space than a current CF card allows for
> > >anntena, and whether there is enough juice provided by the camera to do radio
> > >waves is another question.
> >
> > Hmm ... the Nikon D70 has no sensor on the CF card door, and
> > will happily take shots with the door open.
>
> Obviously I don't have a D70.
>
> > Also -- the door (like most of the camera body) is
> > Polycarbonate, so it should be pretty transparent to the RF from the
> > card.
>
> I was thinking of the length of the antenna needed to get any range, and not
> whether it was transparent to RF.
>
> > If you need more space, the door is secured by two small
> > countersunk Phillips-head screws, so it could be removed with a proper
> > sized Jeweler's screwdriver. (But a card sticking out that door might
> > be awkward anyway, as it will be poking you in the right cheek -- unless
> > you are shooting left-eyed, in which case the card may well be sticking
> > its antenna up your nose. :-)
> >
> > You could also get a spare door, which you could modify to
> > accept a right-angle MicroDot RF connector to lead off to the antenna.
> >
> > But unless it was made for the camera, I suspect that
> > configuring it with the drivers and the IP address (plus encryption
> > (WEP) keys) would be a pain. External hubs tend to have flash memory to
> > retain these settings, but I think that most PCMCIA cards require the
> > computer to tell them what their settings are at each power-up.
> >
> > But -- even if these problems are overcome, I still worry about
> > the drain on the camera's battery during shooting and transmission.


The range of a wireless connection has more to do with its frequency than any
other factor.

The wiress adaptor for my wifes laptop has no visible antenna at all (it just
projects out from the pc-card slot 1/2 inch. Its range is about 100 feet.
(through walls/windows/fences ect.))

If they wanted too, they could manufacture a cf-card or a microdrive with
wireless capability, the problem is demand. How many of us want/need it??


--
Larry Lynch
Mystic, Ct.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Colin D wrote:
>
> If you're the only photog there, it might work, but if several guys are
> shooting, all with wireless connections, and maybe wireless flash, I
> would be a bit unhappy about potential interference to my shots from
> their transmissions. Not to mention some pirate with a laptop receiver
> snatching all your piccies while you do the work. {:-(

It's a valid issue but if the manufs do their homework and the link is
mildly encrypted it should be quite safe.

Wireless flash (as opposed to slave flash) is reasonably safe as
wireless flash has 2 or 4 or more channels and it is very different
between OEM's. If a photog hijacks my flashes, he is on for a very
unpleasant encounter.

Slaves with wizards is a similar thing.

In any case, at the venue in question, I don't expect any problem at all.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: there's no such thing as a FreeLunch.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) writes:

> In article <m3r7i5felb.fsf@glinda.the-meissners.org>,
> Michael Meissner <mrmnews@the-meissners.org> wrote:
> >dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) writes:
> >
> >> In article <m31xa6oyhg.fsf@tiktok.the-meissners.org>,
> >> Michael Meissner <mrmnews@the-meissners.org> wrote:
> >> >Owamanga <owamanga(not-this-bit)@hotmail.com> writes:
>
> [ ... ]
>
> >> >The problem is most cameras that I'm aware of want the memory card door closed
> >> >in order to operate (and Panasonics put the memory card door underneath the
> >> >camera). I suspect you would need more space than a current CF card allows for
> >> >anntena, and whether there is enough juice provided by the camera to do radio
> >> >waves is another question.
> >>
> >> Hmm ... the Nikon D70 has no sensor on the CF card door, and
> >> will happily take shots with the door open.
> >
> >Obviously I don't have a D70.
>
> O.K. There was not sufficient in the quoted text for me to be
> sure of this, (unless the mention of "Panasonics" was intended to show
> what you had), but I also was considering that others may or may not
> have similar behavior, so it would be worth verifying.

No, I have 4 Olympus cameras (E-1, C-2100UZ, D-40Z, D-510Z) which function when
the memory door is open. I thought I recalled other cameras having similar
problems. In any case, I don't think I would like shooting with an antenna
sticking out where the grip to the camera is.

The complaint about the Panasonics is more of a gripe about their poor design
since the FZ20 is the closest to the C-2100UZ for an upgrade path. I did a lot
of shooting this summer with my C-2100UZ, and I found I needed to quickly
change memory cards, without taking the unit out of the flash bracket. The
brain dead design of the Panasonic wouldn't let me do that, even with a quick
release mechanism (though some people have made an adaptor to move the tripod
screw hole away from the battery/memory door).

> >> Also -- the door (like most of the camera body) is
> >> Polycarbonate, so it should be pretty transparent to the RF from the
> >> card.
> >
> >I was thinking of the length of the antenna needed to get any range, and not
> >whether it was transparent to RF.
>
> The maximum antenna length to do any real good is 1/4
> wavelength, which at the Wireless networking frequencies is 30.75mm or
> 1.211 inches for the middle channel (channel six) or a maximum of
> 31.07mm or 1.223 inches for the lowest channel (and thus the longest
> wavelength). That is less than the width of a CF card, so building the
> antenna into the edge of the CF card would suffice, as long as the door
> is either a transparent plastic or is removable. After all -- why do
> you think that most PCMICA or PC-CARD wireless boards have no external
> antenna connector?

PC card/PCMCIA is bigger than a CF card, and the ones I've used all have an
antenna sticking out the side (which makes it annoying when I have the laptops
in very close quarters).


--
Michael Meissner
email: mrmnews@the-meissners.org
http://www.the-meissners.org