Comments on 20D package

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Hi guys and gals,

Well, after several hours of research and a few questions here and
elsewhere, I think I finally found a package that I like. I'm looking
for comments (any and all) you might have, before I take the plunge.

First, a little bit about me and how I'm anticipating using the camera.
I used to be a hobbyist when I was in high school, but gave it up in
college, due to money. Funny how I always had beer money though. ;-)
Now I want to get back into the hobby. I love taking photos of nature,
and am usually designated the photographer at family functions. (I
dislike portrait photography, but find taking candid's fun.)

I'm not real knowledgable or experienced in photography, lighting, etc.
so I don't pay much attention to technical details. But, as I get back
into the hobby I'm sure I'll be learning more and trying different things.

The package that I'm looking at is from Cameta Camera. It includes:
o 20D body and everything Canon ships with it.
o Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens
o Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 Zoom III
o Lexar 2GB 80x CF card
o USB 2.0 CF card reader
o Extra BP-511 Li-Ion battery
o Cleaning cloth
o some free prints from Shutterfly
o Deluxe Canon SLR case

The price is $2,249.95 + S&H.

Now this is quite a bit more then I wanted spend when I initially
started this, but am willing to plunk down the $$ for good quality stuff
that will allow me to do what I want in most situations. Additionally,
the price of this package seems to be a good deal for what's included.

I would appreciate your comments before I order it.

Thanks!!

Mike

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

---snip---
>The package that I'm looking at is from Cameta Camera. It includes:
>o 20D body and everything Canon ships with it.
>o Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens
>o Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 Zoom III
>o Lexar 2GB 80x CF card
>o USB 2.0 CF card reader
>o Extra BP-511 Li-Ion battery
>o Cleaning cloth
>o some free prints from Shutterfly
>o Deluxe Canon SLR case

Pretty good starter list in my opinion. I do have a few comments.

-The Canon SLR case is nice, but I love the Tamrac "System 6" model
5606. See here: http://www.tamrac.com/5606.htm I can carry a lot of
stuff, but it is too small for me to overload myself.

-For a first lens I'd probably dump the 17-85 and buy a 28-135 IS USM
unless you have a specific need for wide angle but that is completely
a personal preference and not a reflection on the quality of either
lens.

-Pick up one of the 50mm f1.8 II primes. You'll love it for low light
situations and they can be had for about $70. A serious bargain!

-I suspect you'll be wishing you bought a flash unit before long. I
have the 420ex and it's good though sometimes I wish I'd bought the
550ex...maybe someday. I don't know much about the 580 so I can't
comment.

-Cleaning cloths are a pain. LensPen, now that's the ticket!
http://www.lenspen.com/ I probably have five of these things!

-I would always have a backup card so you can keep shooting while one
of them downloads, and also as a backup in the unlikely event that a
card fails.


Drifter
"I've been here, I've been there..."

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I think the $100 coupons were given out a short time ago to people who made
a large purchase.
People who received their coupons may redeem them upon making another
purchase.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 15:14:09 -0600, Robert Bobb <bobby@bobby.com>
wrote:

>Hi guys and gals,
>
>Well, after several hours of research and a few questions here and
>elsewhere, I think I finally found a package that I like. I'm looking
>for comments (any and all) you might have, before I take the plunge.
>
>First, a little bit about me and how I'm anticipating using the camera.
> I used to be a hobbyist when I was in high school, but gave it up in
>college, due to money. Funny how I always had beer money though. ;-)
>Now I want to get back into the hobby. I love taking photos of nature,
>and am usually designated the photographer at family functions. (I
>dislike portrait photography, but find taking candid's fun.)
>
>I'm not real knowledgable or experienced in photography, lighting, etc.
>so I don't pay much attention to technical details. But, as I get back
>into the hobby I'm sure I'll be learning more and trying different things.
>
>The package that I'm looking at is from Cameta Camera. It includes:
>o 20D body and everything Canon ships with it.
>o Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens
>o Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 Zoom III
>o Lexar 2GB 80x CF card
>o USB 2.0 CF card reader
>o Extra BP-511 Li-Ion battery
>o Cleaning cloth
>o some free prints from Shutterfly
>o Deluxe Canon SLR case
>
>The price is $2,249.95 + S&H.
>
>Now this is quite a bit more then I wanted spend when I initially
>started this, but am willing to plunk down the $$ for good quality stuff
>that will allow me to do what I want in most situations. Additionally,
>the price of this package seems to be a good deal for what's included.
>
>I would appreciate your comments before I order it.
>
>Thanks!!
>
>Mike

Hi Mike. I recently got a 20d and i to enjoy nature photography. You
may find a 1gig mem card sufficient for now and you probably don't
need the extra battery. That's a decent semi-wide angle lens, but
you may want to get a longer-better telephoto. It's too long really
for portraiture, but not long enough for candid, or birds. I have a
70-300m canon usm is; I wish i had more length. My 2 cents.

rgds
Ken

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1zt1e.2030$FN4.1322@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> The package that I'm looking at is from Cameta Camera. It includes:
>> o 20D body and everything Canon ships with it.
>> o Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens
>> o Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 Zoom III
>
> Seems mildly bass-ackward to have IS on the shorter lens rather than the
> rather long (effectively 120-480) 75-300. At the very least the package
> ought to have a good tripod! :> )
>

Yes, agree completely, IS on the big lens and at least a Bogen or similar
tripod.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
news:1zt1e.2030$FN4.1322@newssvr21.news.prodigy.com...
>> The package that I'm looking at is from Cameta Camera. It includes:
>> o 20D body and everything Canon ships with it.
>> o Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens
>> o Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 Zoom III
>
> Seems mildly bass-ackward to have IS on the shorter lens rather than the
> rather long (effectively 120-480) 75-300. At the very least the package
> ought to have a good tripod! :> )
>
Not necessarily.
The IS on the walkabout lens will allow lots of subtle low-light shots.
Great for grabbing candids.
If the 75-300 is used for action shots then IS is next to useless.
But if he could stretch to IS on both......

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 20:18:15 -0600, Robert Bobb <bobby@bobby.com>
wrote:

>So where do I find the $100 coupon?

It was an Amazon special offer a few weeks ago. It appears to be over.
It will go to by a CF card.

Also by using Amazon's Visa Card one get an additional rebate of about
42 dollars.


>
>John A. Stovall wrote:
>>
>> Canon 20D body and free shipping Amazon 1269.94 (100 coupon)
>>

*****************************************************

Chance proposes. Death disposes.

"African Genesis"
Robert Ardrey

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Robert Bobb" <bobby@bobby.com> wrote in message
news:f_2dnZourpC9TNjfRVn-og@bright.net...
> Hi guys and gals,
>
> Well, after several hours of research and a few questions here and
> elsewhere, I think I finally found a package that I like. I'm looking
> for comments (any and all) you might have, before I take the plunge.
>
<snip!>
> Thanks!!
>
> Mike

In sales, its called "upselling". Dont go for the kit. The only kit you
should consider is the Canon body+lens kits. If you dont want kit lenses,
then just get the body alone and the other accessories seperately. It will
actually be cheaper.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

>>> Seems mildly bass-ackward to have IS on the shorter lens rather than the
>>> rather long (effectively 120-480) 75-300. At the very least the package
>>> ought to have a good tripod! :> )
>>
>> The benefits of IS on a shorter lens should be obvious at low ISO at the
>> end of the day.
>
> I think the point was that if he was only getting it on one lens then it
> is probably better on the big lens, nice on both but not absolutely needed
> on either..

Yeah, what he said!

But it is interesting that there's a lot more talk about IS vs std lenses
than there is discussion of tripods. Guess tripods are just a bit too
mundane?

--Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
www.ChainReactionBicycles.com


"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
newsXE1e.14407$C7.2022@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news26g2j$c04$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
>> Mike Jacoubowsky wrote:
>>
>>> Seems mildly bass-ackward to have IS on the shorter lens rather than the
>>> rather long (effectively 120-480) 75-300. At the very least the package
>>> ought to have a good tripod! :> )
>>
>> The benefits of IS on a shorter lens should be obvious at low ISO at the
>> end of the day.
>
> I think the point was that if he was only getting it on one lens then it
> is probably better on the big lens, nice on both but not absolutely needed
> on either..
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

They also make your pictures sharper, your range of usable shutter speeds
greater, and a host of other benefits. They also force you to think about
composition more than when you shoot from the hip.


"Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote in message
newsDk3e.2849$k57.1725@fed1read07...
> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
> news:Go73e.2398$V62.1553@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>
>> But it is interesting that there's a lot more talk about IS vs std lenses
>> than there is discussion of tripods. Guess tripods are just a bit too
>> mundane?
>>
>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>
>>
> Tripods are also bulky, tiresome to erect, difficult to use on some
> terrain, and not allowed in some venues. Plus, they limit mobility.
>
> --
> Skip Middleton
> http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
>
>
>

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Celtic Boar" <extraneous@charter.net> wrote in message
news:Azy3e.1668$HM7.1638@fe06.lga...
> They also make your pictures sharper, your range of usable shutter speeds
> greater, and a host of other benefits. They also force you to think about
> composition more than when you shoot from the hip.
>
>
> "Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote in message
> newsDk3e.2849$k57.1725@fed1read07...
>> "Mike Jacoubowsky" <mikej1@ix.netcom.com> wrote in message
>> news:Go73e.2398$V62.1553@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
>>
>>>
>>> But it is interesting that there's a lot more talk about IS vs std
>>> lenses than there is discussion of tripods. Guess tripods are just a bit
>>> too mundane?
>>>
>>> --Mike-- Chain Reaction Bicycles
>>> www.ChainReactionBicycles.com
>>>
>>>
>> Tripods are also bulky, tiresome to erect, difficult to use on some
>> terrain, and not allowed in some venues. Plus, they limit mobility.
>>
>> --
>> Skip Middleton
>> http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
>>
>>
>>
>
>
I was just pointing out why tripods aren't always the be-all and end-all.
Two of your comments are more than valid, or at least they are in my
opinion. But the composition one is arguable at best. I've never seen a
composition improved by using a tripod. I never "shoot from the hip,"
whether freehand, on a tripod, or on a monopod. Or at least I don't when
I'm serious about the result.
And as far as my terrain statement, and your composition statement, let me
give you an example. I was shooting a water fall in central California a
few years ago. I had to stand on a small rock, in the middle of a small
stream, crouch down and lean to one side to get the composition I wanted.
There was absolutely no place to actually put the tripod which I had with
me. But, because of my awkward, unstable position, IS was the only way I
could have gotten the shot.
And next time, please, when the replies are bottom posted, try to follow the
format...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 02 Apr 2005 12:18:13 -0500, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Skip M wrote:
>
>
>> Tripods are also bulky, tiresome to erect, difficult to use on some terrain,
>> and not allowed in some venues. Plus, they limit mobility.
>
>OTOH you get low shutter speeds and crisper images. Considering the
>value of some of the lenses we use, it's a shame to waste the sharpness
>on slightly blurry images. A good tripod adapts well to uneven terrain.
>
>Cheers,
>Alan

The lighter weight of some DSLRs doesn't help matters either.
More shake. Modern Photography did tests years back and
handheld shots under 1/250sec all lost sharpness. Bulkier
cameras worked better owing to the dampening feature of mass,
and on some spindly tripods, cameras with noticeable mirror
slap produced pictures less sharp at certain shutter speeds than
cameras with mirror lockups and softer shutters/mirror slap.
Only way to determine if your setup blurs is to test, but if you
don't have a tripod, using anything available as a brace (wall,
lay down, etc, is better than nothing. A monopod with a quick
release head can be clipped to a belt so it's not that intrusive,
compared to a tripod that is.
-Rich

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 3 Apr 2005 05:59:01 -0700, Skip M <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote:
> Actually, my preference is for the top post that is the default of OE, but
> most here don't, and some become absolutely incensed at top posting.
> Something about netiquette, but I'm sure Emily Post has no opinion on it!

http://www.google.com/search?q=emily-postnews

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <f_2dnZourpC9TNjfRVn-og@bright.net>,
Robert Bobb <bobby@bobby.com> wrote:

>o 20D body and everything Canon ships with it.
>o Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM lens
>o Canon EF 75-300mm f/4-5.6 Zoom III

You're getting a pretty good setup there. Good call avoiding the 18-55
kit.

>o Lexar 2GB 80x CF card

Waste of money. Buy 2 Kingstons or 4 Rosewills for the price. Unless
it's included for a package price, in which case, fine.

>The price is $2,249.95 + S&H.

By my reckoning that's a good deal. You should be able to get some
rebates on the body and both lenses if you hurry.


>Now this is quite a bit more then I wanted spend when I initially
>started this

Your story is common! I had money in my hand for a Nikon D70. Told a
colleague about my plan. He showed me his 20D. It was all over. I did
the due diligence of trying out a Rebel XT, but after playing with the
20D it was no contest. (20D has a much more sensible control layout,
and it does make a huge difference.)

Don't buy a $50 tripod, or you will buy three of them and still end up
with a Manfrotto.

I'm getting a gut feeling that digital format wants longer shutters. It
might be that I'm using slower lenses, or that I've forgotten what
photography was like in the 10 years I've been out of it. Or maybe it's
the fact that I can actually envision making 24x30 enlargements,
something I'd never dream of with a 35mm kit. That means *every* shot
is a tripod shot. And I'm starting to look at $500 ball heads. Sigh.