Thoughts on the trickle of info about W:tF

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

I've read a few of the articles trickling out regarding Werewolf: the
Forsaken (is it just a coincidence that the acronym is WTF?), and I
have a few thoughts.

Much like V:tR, it appears that W:tF will follow very closely in the
shoes of it predecessor, though there are still large differences. Two
large changes that I find interesting are the rules about the Gauru
form, and the recently released article on the Pure tribes.

First, a werewolf can only assume the Gauru form for a short period of
time (Stamina+Primal Urge turns). Secondly, the werewolf in Gauru form
is in a quasi-frenzied state. They can do nothing but attack or move
towards an enemy. I find this interesting, and a good idea, because it
means werewolf characters will have to rely on more than just the war
form when trying to accomplish objectives. What do others think?

The second change is the change in the main antagonists for werewolves.
In W:tA, the antagonists were the Black Spiral Dancers, who wanted to
destroy everything simply because they believed in destruction. That's
a relatively weak and two dimensional antagonist, if you ask me. On
the other hand, I like the idea of the Pure much more. They are
decendents of those werewolves who opposed the slaying of Father Wolf,
and they are working to irradicate the Forsaken for their heinous
crime, and would like to see humanity put back under the control of the
elder spirits. The don't want to simply destroy everything, they feel
the world has gone down a fundamentally wrong path, and would like to
see it brought back to their ideals. That seems much more compelling,
and much more ripe for some interesting interactions between these
antagonists and the Forsaken. What do others think?

Mr Monk Goo

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In article <1106754017.525481.277210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
"Mr. Monk Goo" <mr_monk_goo@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I find this interesting, and a good idea, because it
> means werewolf characters will have to rely on more than just the war
> form when trying to accomplish objectives. What do others think?

Honestly, I liked that WtA Garou could spend time in their war form
without automatically frenzying. It underlined the fact that while they
were created to be brutal warriors, they're also creatures of reason.

(PCs living in Crinos is not hot at all, but I never experienced that
with my players.)

--
Tyler

m o c t o d o o h a y t a h c t i v o n i l b

Bac>|wards

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Tyler Dion wrote:

> Honestly, I liked that WtA Garou could spend time in their war form
> without automatically frenzying. It underlined the fact that while they
> were created to be brutal warriors, they're also creatures of reason.

> (PCs living in Crinos is not hot at all, but I never experienced that
> with my players.)

I think the Forsaken (and the Pure) are generally not being portrayed as
creatures of reason this time around. I really like the "no indefinite
Gauru" rule, for much the same reason Goo said -- more use of Dalu and
Urshul form is kickass. Especially since the Dalu form looks cooler
than the old Glabro:

http://www.white-wolf.com/werewolf/PureTribes.jpg
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
--Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In article <35rfkgF4pj9mdU1@individual.net>, Stephenls
<stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

> I think the Forsaken (and the Pure) are generally not being portrayed as
> creatures of reason this time around.

Looks like another fact about WtF that I don't dig on.

You need to write more about other games that interest me, Stephen.
You're saving me a ton of money.

--
Tyler

m o c t o d o o h a y t a h c t i v o n i l b

Bac>|wards

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Tyler Dion wrote:

> Looks like another fact about WtF that I don't dig on.

> You need to write more about other games that interest me, Stephen.
> You're saving me a ton of money.

I think it's thematically important to present werewolves as creatures
of savagery, and having the reason bit as an overlay one must struggle
to maintain, rather than something part of one's fundamental nature.

Of course, the Uratha weren't created to be brutal warriors. They
weren't created to be /anything/. They were the result of the love
between Luna and Father Wolf, and they followed in their father's
footsteps until such a time as they believed it important they replace
him. Which may not have been the greatest idea.

Now they do Father Wolf's job not because they were created for it, but
because it needs to be done and there's no one else who will.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
--Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls wrote:
> I think it's thematically important to present werewolves as
creatures
> of savagery, and having the reason bit as an overlay one must
struggle
> to maintain, rather than something part of one's fundamental nature.

I agree with this as well. This is a thought that I tried to instill
in my players in the oWoD. Unfortunately, even in the oWoD, they were
much more likely to just give in to whatever destructive impulses came
across their mind (using people as baseball bats, for instance). Sigh.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
: Tyler Dion wrote:

: > Looks like another fact about WtF that I don't dig on.

: > You need to write more about other games that interest me, Stephen.
: > You're saving me a ton of money.

: I think it's thematically important to present werewolves as creatures
: of savagery, and having the reason bit as an overlay one must struggle
: to maintain, rather than something part of one's fundamental nature.

As long as they get to be reasonable most of the time when
they are looking like people, that's fine by me.

: Of course, the Uratha weren't created to be brutal warriors.

Does that mean they will be slightly less overwhelmingly
lethal in melee combat in comparison to the rest of
the splats?

: They
: weren't created to be /anything/. They were the result of the love
: between Luna and Father Wolf, and they followed in their father's
: footsteps until such a time as they believed it important they replace
: him. Which may not have been the greatest idea.

Seems like "Ooops, shouldn't have killed that." is still
a part of werewolf history, even in the new world.

: Now they do Father Wolf's job not because they were created for it, but
: because it needs to be done and there's no one else who will.

What happens if no one does?

~P.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Patrick Baldwin wrote:

> As long as they get to be reasonable most of the time when
> they are looking like people, that's fine by me.

The NPC guidelines Ethan sent out to his writers (which were released
publically through the quarterly) are as follows:

"Don’t give werewolves lives that the average suburban kid is accustomed
to. Werewolves exist on the fringe of society at best. They don’t go
home and watch TV for three hours before going to bed. Limit those
popculture references, particularly for elders. There are plenty of real
cultural references out there for you to cite without looking like a goob."

Werewolves aren't to be presented as calm, reasonable people, but there
doesn't seem to be much to prevent PCs from being unusual. That said,
Harmony, the werewolf morality trait, is going to have a somewhat
different heirarchy of sins than Morality/Humanity, and there's always
the risk of encountering stimuli that present the risk of going into
Death Rage (which is like vampire frenzy, except with an automatic
forced shift to Gauru), so behaving "reasonably" might be a... strain...
at times.

> Does that mean they will be slightly less overwhelmingly
> lethal in melee combat in comparison to the rest of
> the splats?

Actually, yeah. Here are the five forms:

Hishu: Indistinguishable from human.

Dalu: Strength +1, Stamina +1, Manipulation -1, Size +1, Speed +1, +2 to
perception rolls, induces Lunacy (observers have +4 Willpower to resist).

Gauru: Strength +3, Dexterity +1, Stamina +2, Size +2, Initiative +1,
Speed +4, Armor +1/1, +2 to perception rolls, no health penalties or
consciousness rolls, induces full Lunacy, bite and claws inflict Lethal
damage, -2 to resist Death Rage. Uratha can only maintain Gauru form
safely for [Stamina + Primal Urge] turns, after which they must begin
making checks every turn to resist going into Death Rage. In addition,
every turn spent in Gauru form in which the werewolf is not attacking an
enemy or moving towards an enemy with the intent of attacking once he
reaches it, the werewolf has to make a check to avoid going into Death Rage.

Urshul: Strength +2, Dexterity +2, Stamina +2, Manipulation -3, Size +1,
Initiative +2, Speed +7, +3 to perception rolls, induces Lunacy
(observers have +2 Willpower to resist), bite and claws inflict Lethal
damage.

Urhan: Indistinguishable from wolf. Dexterity +2, Stamina +1, Size -1,
Initiative +2, Speed +5, +4 to perception rolls, inflict lethal damage
with bite only.

No multiple attacks per turn due to Rage expenditures, no automatic
aggravated damage from claws (though there'll be a Gift to cover that),
and regeneration is now "Every turn, either heal one bashing or
downgrade one lethal to bashing. Spend 1 Essence to heal one Lethal
quickly." No word on what regenerating aggravated will entail.

Werewolves are still Kings of Combat, and still beings to be feared, but
they're no longer "tear through packs of vampires" tough. A pack of
ordinary human hunters going up against a werewolf will know fear... but
so will the werewolf they're hunting. The tagline is "Are you predator,
or prey?"

> Seems like "Ooops, shouldn't have killed that." is still
> a part of werewolf history, even in the new world.

Yes and no. Father Wolf was getting old and weak, and the pack's hunts
were failing. What does a wolf pack do when its hunts are failing
because its alpha is getting old and weak?

The Forsaken Tribes believe they mostly did the right thing, although
the consequences were regrettable. The Pure Tribes disagree, but
they're a bunch of spirit-worshipping loneys, and Luna doesn't give them
auspices anyway, so what do they know?

> What happens if no one does?

Most spirits aren't very nice. A world with no one to police the
bordermarches would be an ugly, unhappy place. Well, /more/ ugly and
unhappy.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
--Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

In article <35t4r0F4rltuaU1@individual.net>,
Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:


> The NPC guidelines Ethan sent out to his writers (which were released
> publically through the quarterly) are as follows:
>
> "Don¹t give werewolves lives that the average suburban kid is accustomed
> to. Werewolves exist on the fringe of society at best. They don¹t go
> home and watch TV for three hours before going to bed. Limit those
> popculture references, particularly for elders. There are plenty of real
> cultural references out there for you to cite without looking like a goob."
>


<snip>

Substitute the word "mage" for every "werewolf," more or less, and you
have a simplistic summary of how I envision Mages.

mdf

--
remove 'no junk' to reply

 

[william]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls wrote:

>
>> Does that mean they will be slightly less overwhelmingly
>> lethal in melee combat in comparison to the rest of
>> the splats?
>
>
> Actually, yeah.

Actually, I don't think so. What's actually happened (based on my
extensive sample population of 1 + a bit )is that all the Splats have
been depowered compared to humans.

I don't just mean the "superpowered" humans in the corebook, either.
Look at what happened to the Vampires' combat disciplines.

William

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
: Patrick Baldwin wrote:

: > As long as they get to be reasonable most of the time when
: > they are looking like people, that's fine by me.

: The NPC guidelines Ethan sent out to his writers (which were released
: publically through the quarterly) are as follows:

: "Don?t give werewolves lives that the average suburban kid is accustomed
: to. Werewolves exist on the fringe of society at best. They don?t go
: home and watch TV for three hours before going to bed. Limit those
: popculture references, particularly for elders. There are plenty of real
: cultural references out there for you to cite without looking like a goob."

From what I can tell though, they may well have had relatively
normal lives for some portion of their existence, although how
long I'm unsure of from what little I've read thus far.

: Werewolves aren't to be presented as calm, reasonable people, but there
: doesn't seem to be much to prevent PCs from being unusual.

Hey, I just want them to be calm and reasonable enough most
of the time that they can at least pretend to be human
convincingly for awhile.

: That said,
: Harmony, the werewolf morality trait, is going to have a somewhat
: different heirarchy of sins than Morality/Humanity,

Interesting, and encouraging.

: and there's always
: the risk of encountering stimuli that present the risk of going into
: Death Rage (which is like vampire frenzy, except with an automatic
: forced shift to Gauru), so behaving "reasonably" might be a... strain...
: at times.

A strain is just fine. Hey, it wouldn't be Werewolf if
they didn't flip out and kill things sometimes.

: > Does that mean they will be slightly less overwhelmingly
: > lethal in melee combat in comparison to the rest of
: > the splats?

: Actually, yeah. Here are the five forms:

: Hishu: Indistinguishable from human.

: Dalu: Strength +1, Stamina +1, Manipulation -1, Size +1, Speed +1, +2 to
: perception rolls, induces Lunacy (observers have +4 Willpower to resist).

Old Glabro equivalent, I assuume.

: Gauru: Strength +3, Dexterity +1, Stamina +2, Size +2, Initiative +1,
: Speed +4, Armor +1/1, +2 to perception rolls, no health penalties or
: consciousness rolls, induces full Lunacy, bite and claws inflict Lethal
: damage, -2 to resist Death Rage. Uratha can only maintain Gauru form
: safely for [Stamina + Primal Urge] turns, after which they must begin
: making checks every turn to resist going into Death Rage. In addition,
: every turn spent in Gauru form in which the werewolf is not attacking an
: enemy or moving towards an enemy with the intent of attacking once he
: reaches it, the werewolf has to make a check to avoid going into Death Rage.

Crinos?

: Urshul: Strength +2, Dexterity +2, Stamina +2, Manipulation -3, Size +1,
: Initiative +2, Speed +7, +3 to perception rolls, induces Lunacy
: (observers have +2 Willpower to resist), bite and claws inflict Lethal
: damage.

Hispo?

: Urhan: Indistinguishable from wolf. Dexterity +2, Stamina +1, Size -1,
: Initiative +2, Speed +5, +4 to perception rolls, inflict lethal damage
: with bite only.

: No multiple attacks per turn due to Rage expenditures, no automatic
: aggravated damage from claws (though there'll be a Gift to cover that),
: and regeneration is now "Every turn, either heal one bashing or
: downgrade one lethal to bashing. Spend 1 Essence to heal one Lethal
: quickly." No word on what regenerating aggravated will entail.

Looks like they clipped pretty much all the stuff that
bothered me. Nice.

: Werewolves are still Kings of Combat, and still beings to be feared, but
: they're no longer "tear through packs of vampires" tough. A pack of
: ordinary human hunters going up against a werewolf will know fear... but
: so will the werewolf they're hunting. The tagline is "Are you predator,
: or prey?"

Certainly looks like Joe Vampire better not be messing with
these guys though, but I'm fine with that, and it meshes nicely
with VtR's take on Lupines.


: > Seems like "Ooops, shouldn't have killed that." is still
: > a part of werewolf history, even in the new world.

: Yes and no. Father Wolf was getting old and weak, and the pack's hunts
: were failing. What does a wolf pack do when its hunts are failing
: because its alpha is getting old and weak?

Right.

: The Forsaken Tribes believe they mostly did the right thing, although
: the consequences were regrettable. The Pure Tribes disagree, but
: they're a bunch of spirit-worshipping loneys, and Luna doesn't give them
: auspices anyway, so what do they know?

Random thought, but I wonder if there's any reason why one
couldn't play one of the Pure Tribes...

: > What happens if no one does?

: Most spirits aren't very nice. A world with no one to police the
: bordermarches would be an ugly, unhappy place. Well, /more/ ugly and
: unhappy.

Are vampires still part of what they are policing, or just
EEEEEVil spirits now?

~P.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Tyler Dion <tfdion@spammenot.com> wrote in news:bvSdnRDc-7SdzWXcRVn-
qw@telcove.net:

> In article <1106754017.525481.277210@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
> "Mr. Monk Goo" <mr_monk_goo@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>> I find this interesting, and a good idea, because it
>> means werewolf characters will have to rely on more than just the war
>> form when trying to accomplish objectives. What do others think?
>
> Honestly, I liked that WtA Garou could spend time in their war form
> without automatically frenzying. It underlined the fact that while they
> were created to be brutal warriors, they're also creatures of reason.
>
> (PCs living in Crinos is not hot at all, but I never experienced that
> with my players.)
>

I would have to agree. Crinos was inherent. I can understand maybe a
long term limitation (like if you stay in the form for more rounds than
your Willpower, and arent in combat, then the attacking and Death Rage
rule apply) but form the bad? No...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Um.... looks like Glabro, to me.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Patrick Baldwin wrote:

> Nice to hear.

I also like the way they managed to work the "infection by bite" myth
into it as an inaccurate human interpretation of a real and meaningful
phenomenon.

> Well, that sounds ideal really. Sane enough to pass through
> mortal society, to spooky to really be of it.

Indeed.

In fact, we just learned today that werewolves will have some sort of
social dice penalties when interacting with mortals, based on their
Primal Urge score.

> They really don't seem quite as bad as the Black Spirals from
> the minute amount I know- way less randomly crazy and vicious.

Well, yeah. Less like Captain Planet villains and more like Nazis or Ku
Klux Klan members.

Ethan still doesn't want to be the guy to write a book that justifies
the actions of the Nazis or the Ku Klux Klan. I don't blame him.

> Anyone who loves a human can always end up with reason
> to hate vampires.

> Seems like there's some possibility of mutually assured
> rending though. A Gangrel built for rippy is probably
> not something to tangle with if you don't need to.

Yeah. Those Protean ••• Claws of the Wild are nasty, especially when
backed up by Vigor and Celerity.

That said, there is no /obligatory/ hatred between vampires and
werewolves. You can have them hanging out if you want. It's easy to
think of reasons why they wouldn't, but those reasons will be a bit more
personally significant than "Our goddess says you smell bad."

> Right. So they'r like...well, spirits. Sean Stewart kind
> of spirits. Nifty.

I haven't read any Sean Stewart books (or indeed even heard of them
until your post prompted a Google search), but yeah.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
--Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
: Patrick Baldwin wrote:

: > Nice to hear.

: I also like the way they managed to work the "infection by bite" myth
: into it as an inaccurate human interpretation of a real and meaningful
: phenomenon.

I haven't seen that bit in the new Werewolf, but as long
as it's better than the previous attempt (a wacky high level
gift) I'm a happy man.

: > Well, that sounds ideal really. Sane enough to pass through
: > mortal society, to spooky to really be of it.

: Indeed.

: In fact, we just learned today that werewolves will have some sort of
: social dice penalties when interacting with mortals, based on their
: Primal Urge score.

Perfect.

: > They really don't seem quite as bad as the Black Spirals from
: > the minute amount I know- way less randomly crazy and vicious.

: Well, yeah. Less like Captain Planet villains and more like Nazis or Ku
: Klux Klan members.

Having read Chronicles of the Black Labyrinth, I'm not sure
classifying the Spirals as Captain Planet villains is quite
fair. They are certainly a lot nastier than anything I've
seen in an American kids cartoon.

: Ethan still doesn't want to be the guy to write a book that justifies
: the actions of the Nazis or the Ku Klux Klan. I don't blame him.

Frankly, it seems little worse than some of White Wolf's
other material, but I can certainly respect Ethan's decision
that *he* doesn't want to have to roll around in the filth.

: > Anyone who loves a human can always end up with reason
: > to hate vampires.

: > Seems like there's some possibility of mutually assured
: > rending though. A Gangrel built for rippy is probably
: > not something to tangle with if you don't need to.

: Yeah. Those Protean ??? Claws of the Wild are nasty, especially when
: backed up by Vigor and Celerity.

: That said, there is no /obligatory/ hatred between vampires and
: werewolves. You can have them hanging out if you want. It's easy to
: think of reasons why they wouldn't,

Or would...

: but those reasons will be a bit more
: personally significant than "Our goddess says you smell bad."

Right. It still seems the werewolves have the moral
high ground in comparison to vampires, however.

: > Right. So they'r like...well, spirits. Sean Stewart kind
: > of spirits. Nifty.

: I haven't read any Sean Stewart books (or indeed even heard of them
: until your post prompted a Google search), but yeah.

Really, and you such a big Exalted fan? Worth reading, they are.

~P.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Patrick Baldwin wrote:

> I haven't seen that bit in the new Werewolf, but as long
> as it's better than the previous attempt (a wacky high level
> gift) I'm a happy man.

Werewolves get mad bonuses to track living things after they've tasted
said living thing's blood. (It's like +4 dice or something.)

Werewolves can often get the sense that a human is going to be going
through the First Change soon.

"Oh, hey, that dude over there feels like he's going to be one of us
soon. I'd better keep an eye on him."

*duck into alley, transform into wolf*

*charge*

*CHOMP!*

*run off*

Dude, three weeks later: "That big strange dog bit me, and now my life
is turning upside down! Clearly there's some correlation!"

It's traditional.

> Having read Chronicles of the Black Labyrinth, I'm not sure
> classifying the Spirals as Captain Planet villains is quite
> fair. They are certainly a lot nastier than anything I've
> seen in an American kids cartoon.

Well, Captain Planet villains run through a horror lens and then with
about a decade's worth of work to make them deeper than Captain Planet
villains, but still.

> Right. It still seems the werewolves have the moral
> high ground in comparison to vampires, however.

Not many things /don't/ have the moral high ground in comparison to
vampires.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
--Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
: Patrick Baldwin wrote:

: > I haven't seen that bit in the new Werewolf, but as long
: > as it's better than the previous attempt (a wacky high level
: > gift) I'm a happy man.

: Werewolves get mad bonuses to track living things after they've tasted
: said living thing's blood. (It's like +4 dice or something.)

Keen. Interesting that it's "living" things, keeps easy
tracking of vampires to their Haven down.

: Werewolves can often get the sense that a human is going to be going
: through the First Change soon.

: "Oh, hey, that dude over there feels like he's going to be one of us
: soon. I'd better keep an eye on him."

: *duck into alley, transform into wolf*

: *charge*

: *CHOMP!*

: *run off*

: Dude, three weeks later: "That big strange dog bit me, and now my life
: is turning upside down! Clearly there's some correlation!"

: It's traditional.

Very nice. And hey, since they no longer do agg, they can
use the nip & track with relative impunity.

: > Having read Chronicles of the Black Labyrinth, I'm not sure
: > classifying the Spirals as Captain Planet villains is quite
: > fair. They are certainly a lot nastier than anything I've
: > seen in an American kids cartoon.

: Well, Captain Planet villains run through a horror lens and then with
: about a decade's worth of work to make them deeper than Captain Planet
: villains, but still.

Certain aspects were like that, but I think there was
definitely an element of "evil mystery cult" going on
as well, and some of the themes for Werewolf villains
also seemed very Robert E. Howard, mostly like Bran Mak
Morn antagonists.

Which I actually like, and might try to include in
the new WoD.

: > Right. It still seems the werewolves have the moral
: > high ground in comparison to vampires, however.

: Not many things /don't/ have the moral high ground in comparison to
: vampires.

I think one might argue that humans who commit violent
crimes are ceding the moral high ground to vampires, as
human biology seems to compel that sort of behavior
much less than Kindred morphology does.

~P.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Patrick Baldwin wrote:

> Keen. Interesting that it's "living" things, keeps easy
> tracking of vampires to their Haven down.

That was just my phrasing. I don't think there's a rule against using
it on vampires.

> Very nice. And hey, since they no longer do agg, they can
> use the nip & track with relative impunity.

Yup.

> Certain aspects were like that, but I think there was
> definitely an element of "evil mystery cult" going on
> as well, and some of the themes for Werewolf villains
> also seemed very Robert E. Howard, mostly like Bran Mak
> Morn antagonists.

> Which I actually like, and might try to include in
> the new WoD.

Well, new Werewolf has the Bale Hounds, werewolves of all tribes who've
noticed that spirits of malevolence and negative influence tend to be
more powerful than spirits of benevolence and positive influence, and
who have decided to join the winning side.

> I think one might argue that humans who commit violent
> crimes are ceding the moral high ground to vampires, as
> human biology seems to compel that sort of behavior
> much less than Kindred morphology does.

One could argue that.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
--Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.games.whitewolf (More info?)

Stephenls wrote:
> Patrick Baldwin wrote:
>
>> Keen. Interesting that it's "living" things, keeps easy
>> tracking of vampires to their Haven down.
>
>
> That was just my phrasing. I don't think there's a rule against using
> it on vampires.

Actually there is. The write up from 11/24 that details the tracking
ability mentions that it doesn't work on vampires because they don't
have any blood that is properly their own.

-nick

 

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Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
: Patrick Baldwin wrote:

: > Keen. Interesting that it's "living" things, keeps easy
: > tracking of vampires to their Haven down.

: That was just my phrasing. I don't think there's a rule against using
: it on vampires.

Interesting. A little too bad really, as it shifts a
good bit of power back to werewolves.

Bad enough if a human hunter is trying to track you
to your Haven, but Mr. Werewolf who you got into a
scuffle last night with doing so....

<SNIP>
: > Certain aspects were like that, but I think there was
: > definitely an element of "evil mystery cult" going on
: > as well, and some of the themes for Werewolf villains
: > also seemed very Robert E. Howard, mostly like Bran Mak
: > Morn antagonists.

: > Which I actually like, and might try to include in
: > the new WoD.

: Well, new Werewolf has the Bale Hounds, werewolves of all tribes who've
: noticed that spirits of malevolence and negative influence tend to be
: more powerful than spirits of benevolence and positive influence, and
: who have decided to join the winning side.

Nice. And helps explain some of why the WoD is such
a shitty place to live.

~P.

 

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Stephenls wrote:
> Patrick Baldwin wrote:
>> Anyone who loves a human can always end up with reason
>> to hate vampires.
>
>
>> Seems like there's some possibility of mutually assured
>> rending though. A Gangrel built for rippy is probably
>> not something to tangle with if you don't need to.
>
>
> Yeah. Those Protean ••• Claws of the Wild are nasty, especially when
> backed up by Vigor and Celerity.
>
> That said, there is no /obligatory/ hatred between vampires and
> werewolves. You can have them hanging out if you want. It's easy to
> think of reasons why they wouldn't, but those reasons will be a bit more
> personally significant than "Our goddess says you smell bad."

Why am I now starting to think of Anita Blake?

--
Jon
-----
Cats are the embodiment of angels here on Earth.

 

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lord zog wrote:
> Stephenls wrote:
>
>> That said, there is no /obligatory/ hatred between vampires and
>> werewolves. You can have them hanging out if you want. It's easy to
>> think of reasons why they wouldn't, but those reasons will be a bit more
>> personally significant than "Our goddess says you smell bad."
>
> Why am I now starting to think of Anita Blake?

Because you're a perv?

--
Christopher Adams - Sydney, Australia
What part of "Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn" don't you
understand?
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/prestigeclasslist.html
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/mhacdebhandia/templatelist.html

*Nine!* This is *nine!* We have killed your friends! Every friend is now dead!

 

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Christopher Adams wrote:
> lord zog wrote:
>
>>Stephenls wrote:
>>
>>
>>>That said, there is no /obligatory/ hatred between vampires and
>>>werewolves. You can have them hanging out if you want. It's easy to
>>>think of reasons why they wouldn't, but those reasons will be a bit more
>>>personally significant than "Our goddess says you smell bad."
>>
>>Why am I now starting to think of Anita Blake?
>
>
> Because you're a perv?

Well yes, but aside from that. The new WoD has a very similar feel to the
relationship between the vamps and shifters from the Anita Blake books.


--
Jon
-----
Cats are the embodiment of angels here on Earth.

 

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>>>Why am I now starting to think of Anita Blake?
>>
>>
>> Because you're a perv?
>
> Well yes, but aside from that. The new WoD has a very similar feel to the
> relationship between the vamps and shifters from the Anita Blake books.
>

In the Anita Blake books, shifters often serve vamps because many master
vamps have animal control abilities that let them control shifters. I don't
see the parallel.

-Essex

 

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Essex wrote:

> In the Anita Blake books, shifters often serve vamps because many master
> vamps have animal control abilities that let them control shifters. I don't
> see the parallel.

Especially since Vampire's animal control abilities, IIRC, explicitly
don't work on shifters.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
--Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon