White Wolf v2 Commerically Successful?

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I'm curious if White Wolf's new setting is doing well commercially.
Are they going to make enough money to continue the setting and/or the
company?

Any information is appriciated.

-Charles Talleyrand
 
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kitplane01@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm curious if White Wolf's new setting is doing well commercially.
> Are they going to make enough money to continue the setting and/or the
> company?

> Any information is appriciated.

White Wolf doesn't publish its sales information, so it's hard to say.
I've heard people saying things like "I heard from some dude that it's
been a big disappointment," but the people saying that are never
trustworthy, and are often people with grudges against the company.

The way it looks to me, after monitoring relevant Internet
conversations, is that depending on your location, it's either doing as
well as or not as well as the old WoD. The places where it's not doing
as well often seem to be LARP-heavy areas, which often saw a big bunch
of sales right at launch and then a dropoff.

Current theory from me, then:

1) In areas of heavy tabletop, WW fans bought the corebooks. Since
there aren't many supplements yet, sales then dropped.

2) In areas with heavy LARP, LARPers stuck with the oWoD MET system
because, duh, the new system isn't out yet. Whether there's a mass
migration to the new system will wait to be seen.

3) As the number of Big, Important Supplements (covenant books,
bloodline books, spirit world setting books, etc.) increase, and as
Werewolf and Mage are released, sales will head in a general upwards
direction.

Unfortunately, the nWoD got to something of an awkward launch, with
multiple delays and production hiccups, so that's thrown off the
momentum a bit. It could take a while for it to get that momentum back.
--
Stephenls
Geek
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-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
 
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Doubt it.

--
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yin_yangpro@earthlink.net
Sell your CCG cards here!
http://www.cardshark.com/default.asp?referral=yinyangpro&source=link


<kitplane01@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1109488335.085389.265350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> I'm curious if White Wolf's new setting is doing well commercially.
> Are they going to make enough money to continue the setting and/or the
> company?
>
> Any information is appriciated.
>
> -Charles Talleyrand
>
 
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Yin & Yang Productions wrote:

> Doubt it.

So you just post snarky comments and eBay spam, then?
--
Stephenls
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"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
 
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Stephenls wrote:

> Unfortunately, the nWoD got to something of an awkward launch, with
> multiple delays and production hiccups, so that's thrown off the
> momentum a bit. It could take a while for it to get that momentum back.

Speaking of which, wasn't the new Werewolf supposed to be out by now?
Or is it and I just haven't seen it? Or was it delayed again?
 
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Stephen Williams wrote:

> Speaking of which, wasn't the new Werewolf supposed to be out by now? Or
> is it and I just haven't seen it? Or was it delayed again?

Delayed at the printers. Announced last month.

The new, and apparently Officially Finally Accurate, We Mean It This
Time release date is March 15th. There was a press release and
everything, and WW has been sending out reviewer copies and such, so
it's done and finished. I don't really expect to see it delayed again,
unless White Wolf's warehouse burns down or something.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
 
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Stephenls wrote:
> kitplane01@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> I'm curious if White Wolf's new setting is doing well commercially.
>> Are they going to make enough money to continue the setting and/or the
>> company?
>
>
>> Any information is appriciated.
>
>
> White Wolf doesn't publish its sales information, so it's hard to say.
> I've heard people saying things like "I heard from some dude that it's
> been a big disappointment," but the people saying that are never
> trustworthy, and are often people with grudges against the company.
>
> The way it looks to me, after monitoring relevant Internet
> conversations, is that depending on your location, it's either doing as
> well as or not as well as the old WoD. The places where it's not doing
> as well often seem to be LARP-heavy areas, which often saw a big bunch
> of sales right at launch and then a dropoff.
>
> Current theory from me, then:
>
> 1) In areas of heavy tabletop, WW fans bought the corebooks. Since
> there aren't many supplements yet, sales then dropped.
>
> 2) In areas with heavy LARP, LARPers stuck with the oWoD MET system
> because, duh, the new system isn't out yet. Whether there's a mass
> migration to the new system will wait to be seen.
>
> 3) As the number of Big, Important Supplements (covenant books,
> bloodline books, spirit world setting books, etc.) increase, and as
> Werewolf and Mage are released, sales will head in a general upwards
> direction.
>
> Unfortunately, the nWoD got to something of an awkward launch, with
> multiple delays and production hiccups, so that's thrown off the
> momentum a bit. It could take a while for it to get that momentum back.

At the risk of sounding negative, it's also possible that White Wolf is
competing with their own products-- in other words, how many people
aren't buying the new games because they already *have* a vampire game,
a werewolf game, and a magician game?
I'm not indulging in some sort of spiteful "Old WoD was SOOOO better!"
whine. In fact, from all reports, the nWoD is a vast improvement. But
again, I already have a perfectly functional game for modern horror
(which I probably won't get a chance to play in the near future anyhow)
so upgrading seems to have an unfavorable cost:benefit ratio.
--
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Stephenls wrote:
> Yin & Yang Productions wrote:
>
>> Doubt it.
>
> So you just post snarky comments and eBay spam, then?

Actually, the snarky comments represent an improvement; previously I've
not noticed anything OTHER than eBay spam. At least now he's
participating in threads.
--
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Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
 
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Richard Clayton wrote:

> Actually, the snarky comments represent an improvement; previously
> I've not noticed anything OTHER than eBay spam. At least now he's
> participating in threads.

Eh. The ebay spam didn't bother me. It's hard to get irritated at
something with zero personality, and it's not like this place has enough
traffic that a quarter of of it being ebay spam constitutes an
irritatingly large amount.

Offhanded snark, though, gets on my nerves -- if he'd have just tried to
explain his position a bit, that'd have been better.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
 
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Richard Clayton ha scritto:
> Stephenls wrote:
>
>> kitplane01@gmail.com wrote:
>>
>>> I'm curious if White Wolf's new setting is doing well commercially.
>>> Are they going to make enough money to continue the setting and/or the
>>> company?
>>
>>
>>
>>> Any information is appriciated.
>>
>>

I doubt it too. And it is not a surprise at all, consider the average
quality and background of new WoD. Tsk tsk....
IMHO of course... no offence intended for WoD2 lovers.
 
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DragonHammer wrote:

> I doubt it too. And it is not a surprise at all, consider the average
> quality and background of new WoD. Tsk tsk....
> IMHO of course... no offence intended for WoD2 lovers.

You are aware that saying something and then capping it with "No
offense" is guaranteed to make it 100 times more offensive, right?
--
Stephenls
Geek
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-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
 
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Stephenls wrote:

> I think the general perception is that the nWoD is shallow and
> ill-thought-out, which is a result of it having very little supplemental
> support so far.

I would have to take exception to that description of the new WoD.
Shallow? More like undefined, and mysterious allowing for more
creativity on the part of the ST without having to worry about someone
bringing up Clanbook: Ad Nauseum or some such overarching plotline that
is considered "binding." For me, I see flexibility as opposed to
shallowness. As for ill-thought-out, it's worlds better than the mess of
the Mage system by the end of the old WoD.... The whole is designed to
fit together now pretty seamlessly, it is going to be much easier to
mesh together the various systems because at the core, the same
consistent set of rules is going to be at play. Just my humble opinion
of course.
 
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Franklin Bratcher wrote:

> I would have to take exception to that description of the new WoD.
> Shallow? More like undefined, and mysterious allowing for more
> creativity on the part of the ST without having to worry about someone
> bringing up Clanbook: Ad Nauseum or some such overarching plotline that
> is considered "binding." For me, I see flexibility as opposed to
> shallowness. As for ill-thought-out, it's worlds better than the mess of
> the Mage system by the end of the old WoD.... The whole is designed to
> fit together now pretty seamlessly, it is going to be much easier to
> mesh together the various systems because at the core, the same
> consistent set of rules is going to be at play. Just my humble opinion
> of course.

You misunderstand me.

I don't think it's shallow or ill-thought-out.

I think a large portion of the fanbase thinks it's shallow or
ill-thought-out, because they're used to working in a setting that's at
least five hardcovers deep.

I think they'll come to realize that the nWoD isn't shallow as more
supplementary support is released. Thus, I think the nWoD's popularity
among oWoD fans is likely to increase as the gameline itself increases
in size.
--
Stephenls
Geek
"You do your arguments no favor by insulting those you ought persuade."
-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
 
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Stephen Williams wrote:

>
> Speaking of which, wasn't the new Werewolf supposed to be out by now? Or
> is it and I just haven't seen it? Or was it delayed again?

They flipped Bloodlines and W:tF... originally Werewolf was supposed to
be out the 28th of Feb, and Bloodlines, March 14th. Now its Bloodlines
on the 28th of Feb, and Werewolf on March 14th.
 
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kitplane01@gmail.com wrote in message news:<1109488335.085389.265350@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>...
> I'm curious if White Wolf's new setting is doing well commercially.
> Are they going to make enough money to continue the setting and/or the
> company?
>
> Any information is appriciated.
>
> -Charles Talleyrand

Amazon's rankings are often interesting when it comes to mining very
rough ballpark figures.
Vampire: The Requiem is #11,772 at the time of this posting.
WoD Core is #82,480.
Exalted: The Fair Folk is #102,419.
The D&D PHB is #538.
The GURPS character guide is #12,549. RIFTS is #91,625.
Vampire: The Masquerade is #91,433.

To give you a sense of scale, Gehenna outsold the PHB (on Amazon) in
the month or two after its release, with a print run that was perhaps
40,000. The WoD core rulebook seems to have sold at least that, given
that it has gone through two printings. So the WoD core looks to be
about as initially successful as Gehenna, with some staying power
besides.

These figures are inherently flawed, however, by the fact that most
sales go to distributors. Direct sales figures don't gicve you the
true picture. That's why, for instance, things like Cam memberships
regularly hit the top 10 on WW's site.

M.
 

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kitplane01@gmail.com wrote:

> I'm curious if White Wolf's new setting is doing well commercially.
> Are they going to make enough money to continue the setting and/or the
> company?
>
> Any information is appriciated.
>
> -Charles Talleyrand
>

My only knowledge of White Wolf's commercial success is that the local
gaming/comic store overstocked badly on both WoD and V:tR. However, they
also appear to have sold several of both. And, really, considering they
have entire game lines there that, as far as I can tell, generate no
sales at all, that's pretty good. Certainly they have more unsold oWoD
then they have nWoD.

And, of course, all of these great insights are based entirely on
observations while browsing every few weeks or so.

William
 
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Stephenls wrote:
> DragonHammer wrote:
>
>> I doubt it too. And it is not a surprise at all, consider the average
>> quality and background of new WoD. Tsk tsk....
>> IMHO of course... no offence intended for WoD2 lovers.
>
> You are aware that saying something and then capping it with "No
> offense" is guaranteed to make it 100 times more offensive, right?

No it doesn't. No offense.
--
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Richard Clayton
"During wars laws are silent." -- Cicero
 
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Stephenls wrote:

> I think a large portion of the fanbase thinks it's shallow or
> ill-thought-out, because they're used to working in a setting that's at
> least five hardcovers deep.

Cleverest line ever. Nicely done, Stephen!
--
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Richard Clayton
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Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>Richard Clayton wrote:

>> S'truth. Even sadder, I'm actually EAGER for the revised Exalted
>> corebook...

>As am I.

If it came out tomorrow, I'd be first in line.

Any idea when?

~P.
 
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Patrick Baldwin wrote:
> Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>>Richard Clayton wrote:
>
>
>>> S'truth. Even sadder, I'm actually EAGER for the revised Exalted
>>>corebook...
>
>>As am I.
>
> If it came out tomorrow, I'd be first in line.
>
> Any idea when?

No information yet, except I am reliably informed that it will NOT be a
2005 release. I don't know what the second hardcover for 2005 will be,
but it ain't /Exalted: Revised/.
--
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Richard Clayton
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On Mon, 28 Feb 2005 12:18:06 -0800, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca>
wrote:
>> S'truth. Even sadder, I'm actually EAGER for the revised Exalted
>> corebook...
>As am I.

Do we know anything about it ? From release date to contents ?

Guillaume
 
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Guillaume JAY wrote:

> Do we know anything about it ? From release date to contents ?

Not really, no. We know it won't be this year. We're pretty sure the
combat system will be changed to make Power Combat core, although it's
more likely there'll be a new combat system as far beyond Power Combat
as Power Combat is beyond corebook combat.
--
Stephenls
Geek
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-Greg Stolze, Rites of the Dragon
 
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Richard Clayton <recZIGlaytonZIG@verizon.net> wrote:
>Patrick Baldwin wrote:
>> Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:
>>
>>>Richard Clayton wrote:
>>
>>
>>>> S'truth. Even sadder, I'm actually EAGER for the revised Exalted
>>>>corebook...
>>
>>>As am I.
>>
>> If it came out tomorrow, I'd be first in line.
>>
>> Any idea when?

> No information yet, except I am reliably informed that it will NOT be a
>2005 release. I don't know what the second hardcover for 2005 will be,
>but it ain't /Exalted: Revised/.

Curses. I really don't want to buy another copy of the
first edition, but mine's really not doing too well.

Hmm. Perhaps some duct tape?

~P.
 
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In article <d026v5$dgt$1@pyrite.mv.net>, Patrick Baldwin
<pax@osmium.mv.net> wrote:

> Hmm. Perhaps some duct tape?

Get a copy shop to drill the pages for a three ring binder.

--
Tyler

m o c t o d o o h a y t a h c t i v o n i l b

Bac>|wards
 
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On Tue, 01 Mar 2005 09:20:59 -0800, Stephenls <stephenls@shaw.ca> wrote:

>Guillaume JAY wrote:
>
>> Do we know anything about it ? From release date to contents ?
>
>Not really, no. We know it won't be this year. We're pretty sure the
>combat system will be changed to make Power Combat core, although it's
>more likely there'll be a new combat system as far beyond Power Combat
>as Power Combat is beyond corebook combat.

"Player's Option: Charms and Stunting"?


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