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Warning on MSI cards?

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October 3, 2012 12:58:31 PM

I just read this article on how MSI are secretly overvolting their cards ... which can reduce the life of it ...

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=...


I didnt really understand a lot of it , but I have 2 x MSI 660Ti, and it only comes with a 2 year warranty..

I'm thinking now - should I swap them for a Asus/Evga/Gigabyte 670 ?

More about : warning msi cards

a c 173 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 1:04:01 PM

Look at pics of the bare pcb without the cooler installed the build quality is much higher than normal models for the 660 ti. The only real concern would be if the core voltage was being pushed to high for the 28nm process. With voltage comes faster oxide gate degradation and reduced life on top of higher power consumption. Personally I would pull the face plate and swap out the stock fans for some high flow 80mm fans if they would fit. 60cfm and higher would keep the card cool even in a hot summer without ac :) 
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 1:18:54 PM

dont overclock ur cards u are fine with them on stock one neither need an another cooler because gpu already overclock by factory msi
Related resources
October 3, 2012 1:22:36 PM

I am pretty much a noob...But isn't the problem that there may be too much strain on the PWM ? I don't even know what that is.
a c 173 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 1:27:21 PM

The power vrm can take a lot of abuse but it has to be kept cool. The faster each mosfet has to work the hotter they get and as heat builds up their performance suffer. The worst part is life span if they remain at high temps for to long and they do have limits when it comes to how much current they can provide. If loaded to much they will burn out. I have seen a stock reference model 680 burn out this way. The mid plate is a lot better than there being nothing but if it had ribs or needles for better heat dissipation would be a huge improvement over a flat surface.
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 1:29:37 PM

i am not too much expert in hardware point of view but consider this will be help full for u http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pulse-width_modulation
and u can not predict u r card how long that will work u just dont worry about it simple words in this world nothing can be remain permanent just chill and happy with 2x msi gtx 660 ti
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 1:51:57 PM

mehta23 said:
I just read this article on how MSI are secretly overvolting their cards ... which can reduce the life of it ...

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=...


I didnt really understand a lot of it , but I have 2 x MSI 660Ti, and it only comes with a 2 year warranty..

I'm thinking now - should I swap them for a Asus/Evga/Gigabyte 670 ?


What they are doing that is potentially DANGEROUS is tinkering with the voltage reference values that is supplied to the PWM controller.

Essentially the PWM controller needs a reference voltage internally, against which the output is compared by using a negative feedback to change the duty cycle/frequency (usually just duty cycle). To raise the output voltage, you can reprogram the PWM controller if it supports software programming, or use a different reference voltage. What MSI has done that is despicable is that the voltage reference value for the PWM controller is jacked up to a whopping 8.3 volts under load conditions and startup surge. That chip as per manufacturer's specifications only has a recommended reference voltage of 5 volts, and an ABSOLUTE MAX upper limit of 7 volts. By feeding it 8.3 volts as a voltage reference, the PWM controller will be very shortly lived compared to its normal life span. No amount of cooling will compensate for this, since this reference voltage is not used to derive power, only comparison purposes, so jacking up the voltage does not increase internal heat generation significantly, but does shorten (I'm guessing the Vref is tied to a leg of a transistor or opamp internally) the lifespan of that part, in a non-thermal fashion. This startup surge also reacts with certain computers (mainly PSUs) in such a way as to prevent the card from properly POSTING on startup, and non-specific hard crashes when the GPU clock changes (gaming or otherwise).

To make matters worse, MSI did this in a sneaky way. Instead of tinkering with programming or using a different set of resistors to set the reference value at the TL431 regulator that feeds into the PWM controller, they used an inconspicuous capacitor to isolate the regulator from the ground, which it normally connects to. By isolating it from the ground, the regulator isn't really doing any regulation anymore, and essentially, the resistor divider just before the regulator completely sets the voltage. AND, from an engineering point of view, if you just casually examine the board, it LOOKS as if the capacitor is used to bypass the regulator OUTPUT, which is the NORM to stabilize the regulator. THat's why it is sneaky.

The article talks/speculates about the reasons why MSI (having a long history of successful engineering) would do something like this, and do it in the sneaky way. It has to do with Nvidia's TIGHT restrictions on Kepler vcore adjustments. And just this morning, Nvidia officially slammed the door on EVGA's custom voltage manipulations solution, see:

http://www.techpowerup.com/173110/NVIDIA-Forces-EVGA-to...
October 3, 2012 2:09:52 PM

So , am I doing the right thing by returning my MSI 660Ti's?
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 2:19:38 PM

mehta23 said:
So , am I doing the right thing by returning my MSI 660Ti's?


Double check the back of your card, to see if yours match the images posted on the German tomshardware site.

If yours looks exactly like this:



and zoomed in:



With that TINY capacitor next to the TL431 regulator, then YES. I would NOT hold onto, or recommend anyone holding onto a card that is designed with a part driven far, far out of spec. Even if it doesn't die, you can't be sure it will work in another computer with a different PSU (which is how this issue was discovered), so that there is practically NO resale value either because of this.

THis is just too bad, because I actually like MSI cards and their coolers.
October 3, 2012 3:07:54 PM

Damn! I have two , once can be returned , but the other needs to be sold - unopened...

What should I go for now?
October 3, 2012 3:13:15 PM

Its the only way to get anything out of Nvidia's attitude to GPU's with Kepler, flawed architecture followed by almost non existent expansion, AMD threw the big breaking ball and while GCN evolves with drivers, Kepler is stagnant. Cue GK110, same architecture same flaws. nvidia don't want their cards clockable which is why most are volt limited where a mere .5 slide is enough to crash drivers. (avoid model name)
October 3, 2012 3:38:26 PM

nforce4max said:
Look at pics of the bare pcb without the cooler installed the build quality is much higher than normal models for the 660 ti. The only real concern would be if the core voltage was being pushed to high for the 28nm process. With voltage comes faster oxide gate degradation and reduced life on top of higher power consumption. Personally I would pull the face plate and swap out the stock fans for some high flow 80mm fans if they would fit. 60cfm and higher would keep the card cool even in a hot summer without ac :) 



The relative "build quality" is NOT discernible from any pics I saw and isn't even an issue here. The quality of the components or workmanship are not at issue. They are clearly over-driving the chip by very significant amounts. I have one of these boards and am waiting to see if this gets resolved.
October 3, 2012 5:20:33 PM

Here is an e-mail I received from MSI tech support in response to my telephone inquiry about the over volted GPU:

Thank you for contacting MSI support, In reference to your inquiry about the N660Ti PE 2GD5/OC, MSI respects the result which is tested by Tom’s Hardware, but we have much confidence and believe our products would not cause any customer RMA concerns. Since MSI designs these custom products with overclocking in mind, we “supercharge” these cards because we’re anticipating enthusiast to overclock. Because of this design decision and the higher component quality, we’re able to provide more power to the board resulting in higher and longer GPU Boost operation without reducing the lifetime of the graphics card or warranty term. MSI’s all graphics cards including GTX 670 and GTX 660 Ti passed strict test and stand behind our products with a 3 year warranty.


Make of it what you will. I'm also told a supervisor will be calling me back today. I won't hold my breath.

EDIT: The supervisor never called.
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 5:22:46 PM

mehta23 said:
Damn! I have two , once can be returned , but the other needs to be sold - unopened...

What should I go for now?


I can't say for SURE, but I am certain that MSI can arrange an exchange. OR, it is actually an easy DIY repair to solder bypass that pesky capacitor they put in. This is described on that article (need to translate it first).

Since you have warranty still, I'd go with the first route. See if you can talk to the store where you purchased it, and exchange it for a similar model, OR send an email to MSI. I can't imagine that MSI would say NO, because this is damaging enough to their reputation as it is. They sort of alluded to this in their response saying that (paraphrasing) the user can always make use of the warranty during the warranty period.

I saw that comment you posted just now from MSI. I wouldn't trust their "supercharging". To properly test a component part for accelerated testing, MSI would need months and months to see what the failure rates are of the PWM chip when driven far out of spec to understand what the failure rates will be in current situations.

YOU CAN always have it RMA'd on the account that these cards are prone to crashes and no-POST issues due to incompatibility issues with certain boards and PSUs. See the original article on German Tomshardware site for this, and if you google it, it is a fairly rampant problem.

Original article translated:

http://translate.google.com/translate?sl=auto&tl=en&js=...
a c 173 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 5:44:47 PM

ram1009 said:
The relative "build quality" is NOT discernible from any pics I saw and isn't even an issue here. The quality of the components or workmanship are not at issue. They are clearly over-driving the chip by very significant amounts. I have one of these boards and am waiting to see if this gets resolved.


I haven't kept up to date 100% as I don't have 10-15 hours a day to burn on reading everything posted on the net when I have school and family to take into account. I decided over a month ago to not bother with owning a Kepler era card anyway. Kepler in general is crap and most cards are built worse than this card despite what MSI had done but as one poster had put it that it is an easy fix. Desolder the cap and spread some solder across the two points.

EDIT: If all else one can just add a turn pot to adjust voltages outside of software/bios.
a c 203 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 5:45:51 PM

what msi does not want right now is someone starting a class action lawsuit.
October 3, 2012 6:14:33 PM

nforce4max said:
I haven't kept up to date 100% as I don't have 10-15 hours a day to burn on reading everything posted on the net when I have school and family to take into account. I decided over a month ago to not bother with owning a Kepler era card anyway. Kepler in general is crap and most cards are built worse than this card despite what MSI had done but as one poster had put it that it is an easy fix. Desolder the cap and spread some solder across the two points.

EDIT: If all else one can just add a turn pot to adjust voltages outside of software/bios.



It might well be an "easy fix" for those with the proper tools & skills to do micro soldering by hand however I doubt that description fits most of the people reading these posts. All these boards are still under warranty and most are still within the return period from the retailer provided the contents of the retail box were retained. IMHO, it's a very bad idea to suggest that modification should be attempted by the average reader of this forum.
a c 173 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 6:34:00 PM

ram1009 said:
It might well be an "easy fix" for those with the proper tools & skills to do micro soldering by hand however I doubt that description fits most of the people reading these posts. All these boards are still under warranty and most are still within the return period from the retailer provided the contents of the retail box were retained. IMHO, it's a very bad idea to suggest that modification should be attempted by the average reader of this forum.


I can fix it with a fire and a hot nail, practically stone age tech. If it be a fire and a piece of rock I could possible do it. I have done wire and tape before when I didn't have anything on hand.
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 7:20:56 PM

nforce4max said:
I can fix it with a fire and a hot nail, practically stone age tech. If it be a fire and a piece of rock I could possible do it. I have done wire and tape before when I didn't have anything on hand.


"Fire and a hot nail" - awesome.

May I also suggest in addition to wire and tape, to use a pencil, ala pencil-mod ? Something dark and full of carbon will work just fine. Pencil the capacitor on each side and blow off the excess pencil carbon should do the trick nicely.
October 3, 2012 7:34:18 PM

"OR, it is actually an easy DIY repair to solder bypass that pesky capacitor they put in"

Would this void any warranty?

Also, I bought it from Ebuyer.com with only a two year warranty from them . THis applies to the first card, but not the second.

a c 173 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 7:50:48 PM

Just return it if you feel the need.
October 3, 2012 7:52:20 PM

I am from the UK , if this makes any difference to my position.

If I email MSI , telling them to upgrade me - what would I get ? A reference cooler 670?
a c 271 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 8:08:38 PM

ram1009 said:
It might well be an "easy fix" for those with the proper tools & skills to do micro soldering by hand however I doubt that description fits most of the people reading these posts. All these boards are still under warranty and most are still within the return period from the retailer provided the contents of the retail box were retained. IMHO, it's a very bad idea to suggest that modification should be attempted by the average reader of this forum.


So sad, there was a time when the average readers of these forums were the very people who would come up with and then try out these kinds of mods just for the fun of it. Thank you for highlighting what a shadow of its former self this forum has become.
October 3, 2012 8:29:38 PM

Maxx_Power said:
Double check the back of your card, to see if yours match the images posted on the German tomshardware site.

If yours looks exactly like this:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/G/J/354403/original/PCB%2001.jpg

and zoomed in:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/G/U/354414/original/TL431%2002.jpg

With that TINY capacitor next to the TL431 regulator, then YES. I would NOT hold onto, or recommend anyone holding onto a card that is designed with a part driven far, far out of spec. Even if it doesn't die, you can't be sure it will work in another computer with a different PSU (which is how this issue was discovered), so that there is practically NO resale value either because of this.

THis is just too bad, because I actually like MSI cards and their coolers.


I didnt really read this properly the first time , but is there a chance that my card wont have that capacitor?
October 3, 2012 9:03:29 PM

Mousemonkey said:
So sad, there was a time when the average readers of these forums were the very people who would come up with and then try out these kinds of mods just for the fun of it. Thank you for highlighting what a shadow of its former self this forum has become.



Unfortunately I couldn't agree more, however I find anybody suggesting rework on a surface mount board without proper tools and experience to be irresponsible. It will almost certainly lead to an unserviceable board that can't even be returned to the OEM. There's no way to disguise what was done once you do it.
October 3, 2012 9:28:30 PM

nforce4max said:
I can fix it with a fire and a hot nail, practically stone age tech. If it be a fire and a piece of rock I could possible do it. I have done wire and tape before when I didn't have anything on hand.



Being flippant about this is irresponsible. You're encouraging (probably) unqualified readers to risk a $300 video card with your boastful opinion of your own abilities.
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 9:44:46 PM

mehta23 said:
I didnt really read this properly the first time , but is there a chance that my card wont have that capacitor?


Yes, MSI has officially said, via the article link, that they just started selling/producing boards without that modification.

If yours are brand spanking new, then I'd say there is a chance.
a b U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 9:45:36 PM

mehta23 said:
"OR, it is actually an easy DIY repair to solder bypass that pesky capacitor they put in"

Would this void any warranty?

Also, I bought it from Ebuyer.com with only a two year warranty from them . THis applies to the first card, but not the second.


This would definitely void the warranty. If you want to hold onto your warranty (and I suggest that you do), don't perform this mod yourself.

If you do something like a Pencil Mod, then it probably won't be noticeable when you erase it with a eraser (or some rubbing alcohol). Pencil the capacitor on all sides to make sure it is conductive from one side to the other to accomplish this. Again, depends on what your thoughts are on the warranty.
a c 173 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 10:18:24 PM

ram1009 said:
Being flippant about this is irresponsible. You're encouraging (probably) unqualified readers to risk a $300 video card with your boastful opinion of your own abilities.


Back in my day people were already doing this on their own time on $800-$1300 cards and on $200+ boards. Times have changed where the noobs far outnumber the people who actually know something more than just modern hardware. If I were to open a poll and ask what was the earliest generation that most of the new people started out on the majority wouldn't be on anything older than a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64. I started out on Mac LcII and Pentium 1 era machines. Can any of the kiddies now days know what a 486 is or a Zilog Z80 off hand? Not a snowball's chance in hell as most don't know anything about anything older than what they are using. When it comes to what they teach in the schools now days often the instructors don't know squat except for the few that are reaching retirement age. Now consider what the average person on the street knows then it should start to dawn on people that if civilization ever imploded almost everything would be lost or forgotten in under a generation. So much for advanced medicine when things get rolled back to the dark ages. No facebook, no twitter, no youtube, no gmail, let alone power and running water. No longer the days where your waste goes into a working toilet but a bucket or a hole in the ground. If you watched people as much as I do on a daily bases you would know just how stupid people really are and the one that think they are the exception are no different.


a c 217 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 10:26:19 PM

nforce4max said:
Back in my day people were already doing this on their own time on $800-$1300 cards and on $200+ boards. Times have changed where the noobs far outnumber the people who actually know something more than just modern hardware. If I were to open a poll and ask what was the earliest generation that most of the new people started out on the majority wouldn't be on anything older than a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64. I started out on Mac LcII and Pentium 1 era machines. Can any of the kiddies now days know what a 486 is or a Zilog Z80 off hand? Not a snowball's chance in hell as most don't know anything about anything older than what they are using. When it comes to what they teach in the schools now days often the instructors don't know squat except for the few that are reaching retirement age. Now consider what the average person on the street knows then it should start to dawn on people that if civilization ever imploded almost everything would be lost or forgotten in under a generation. So much for advanced medicine when things get rolled back to the dark ages. No facebook, no twitter, no youtube, no gmail, let alone power and running water. No longer the days where your waste goes into a working toilet but a bucket or a hole in the ground. If you watched people as much as I do on a daily bases you would know just how stupid people really are and the one that think they are the exception are no different.


http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f2/394128d1347934162-how-would-you-deplete-human-population-417156_391067090918237_386972981327648_1291409_209239766_n.jpg


I remember the first computer I had, or should I say the family computer. It was a 8086 with 640kb of ram, a 20mb hard drive, and 5.25" floppy drive. I think it was 8mhz with a 12mhz turbo button. Its official purpose was for Peach tree, which would take up to 4 hours to do a report. Those were the days.

My 1st personally owned computer was a 286, and the 386 was the first one I built. A local shop offered discounts on computers, if you put it together under their supervision. That was a very cool idea they had.
October 3, 2012 10:31:35 PM

nforce4max said:
Back in my day people were already doing this on their own time on $800-$1300 cards and on $200+ boards. Times have changed where the noobs far outnumber the people who actually know something more than just modern hardware. If I were to open a poll and ask what was the earliest generation that most of the new people started out on the majority wouldn't be on anything older than a Pentium 4 or Athlon 64. I started out on Mac LcII and Pentium 1 era machines. Can any of the kiddies now days know what a 486 is or a Zilog Z80 off hand? Not a snowball's chance in hell as most don't know anything about anything older than what they are using. When it comes to what they teach in the schools now days often the instructors don't know squat except for the few that are reaching retirement age. Now consider what the average person on the street knows then it should start to dawn on people that if civilization ever imploded almost everything would be lost or forgotten in under a generation. So much for advanced medicine when things get rolled back to the dark ages. No facebook, no twitter, no youtube, no gmail, let alone power and running water. No longer the days where your waste goes into a working toilet but a bucket or a hole in the ground. If you watched people as much as I do on a daily bases you would know just how stupid people really are and the one that think they are the exception are no different.


http://www.documentingreality.com/forum/attachments/f2/394128d1347934162-how-would-you-deplete-human-population-417156_391067090918237_386972981327648_1291409_209239766_n.jpg



I'm no longer sure what side of this discussion you're on, however before you start coming off like father time I suggest you check my age under "more information" below my screen name. I do go back to Z80s and I was twice your current age at the time. :D 
a c 173 U Graphics card
October 3, 2012 10:37:37 PM

bystander said:
I remember the first computer I had, or should I say the family computer. It was a 8086 with 640kb of ram, a 20mb hard drive, and 5.25" floppy drive. I think it was 8mhz with a 12mhz turbo button. Its official purpose was for Peach tree, which would take up to 4 hours to do a report. Those were the days.

My 1st personally owned computer was a 286, and the 386 was the first one I built. A local shop offered discounts on computers, if you put it together under their supervision. That was a very cool idea they had.


Neat, I am a member on a different forum that people are still building these old machines just for vintage gaming and collecting. When at school I find it difficult to ignore their Altair 8800 that they have on display but I have gotten my hands on older stuff a few times. A sight to see is a huge IBM Winchester 30mb drive with 14 inch platters :o 
October 4, 2012 9:26:29 AM

Well, I ordered it from Ebuyer last week, and it was fresh out of a new batch of products.
If it doesn't have the capacitor, am I good to keep it , or should I get rid of it anyway?
October 4, 2012 10:01:39 AM

Checked both cards : both have that capacitor :( 

Is there any way I can claim my free Borderlands 2 before giving it back?
What can I do about the extra card I have?
a b U Graphics card
October 4, 2012 1:21:27 PM

mehta23 said:
Checked both cards : both have that capacitor :( 

Is there any way I can claim my free Borderlands 2 before giving it back?
What can I do about the extra card I have?


I'm not sure about this. But I have my doubts. If you claim the game, you can only RMA the cards. If you don't claim the game, you MIGHT be able to do an exchange of some type. I'm not familiar with Ebuyer, unfortunately.

You could always test both cards to see if they work with your system(s). If not, you always have the option to claim a legitimate RMA. These cards have an issue with general compatibility, so you may have that. Does your cards crash ? That's another known issue.
October 4, 2012 1:36:10 PM

Well, I can only return on of the cards, what about the second? Direct to MSI ?
October 4, 2012 1:42:17 PM

I'm sorry , but what is RMA?

I filled in the online returns form on EBuyer , stating I'm unhappy with the potential problem the PWM design shows.

It comes up under the RMA Item Notes....
a b U Graphics card
October 4, 2012 10:28:45 PM

mehta23 said:
I'm sorry , but what is RMA?

I filled in the online returns form on EBuyer , stating I'm unhappy with the potential problem the PWM design shows.

It comes up under the RMA Item Notes....


RMA is Return Merchandise Authorization. It is when the manufacturer agrees to do a service on your goods, typically in the warranty period. So it is basically warranty returns and/or warranty repairs/service. This is usually with the maker of the good, not the retailer.

Let us know what Ebuyer says.
October 5, 2012 2:34:48 PM

"Thank you for contacting the Ebuyer Returns Team.Your RMA request has now been approved and you have been assigned the above unique RMA number."
October 5, 2012 2:39:06 PM

I'm goona try to sell the spare 660Ti , but if that fails , how can I get an exchange from MSI ?
a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 2:49:00 PM

mehta23 said:
I'm goona try to sell the spare 660Ti , but if that fails , how can I get an exchange from MSI ?


Same way you did with Ebuyer. Contact MSI (look up their website support) and ask for an RMA, same deal.
October 5, 2012 3:06:07 PM

Just email them? Simple as that? Simple enough for a 16 year old to not mess up :p 

Should I try it now , or if selling doesnt work ?
October 5, 2012 3:53:45 PM

mehta23 said:
Just email them? Simple as that? Simple enough for a 16 year old to not mess up :p 

Should I try it now , or if selling doesnt work ?



Here's some simple logic: Even if you do sell it you will take a loss and who knws how long it will take.

If you request an RMA from the OEM you will get a full refund and they will answer you (probably) within a day and you will only be out the shipping..

I hope this answers your question.
October 5, 2012 5:44:55 PM

Doesn't matter . Checked my online banking and it shows that I paid for the extra card, even though they said they couldn't process my payment , and they were supposed to cancel it :( 

So... £360 left... I could get a nice keyboard and mouse,(£50) monitor(£120) AND a 560Ti (£160)...


or I could get a eVGA 670 FTW ( £310 ) and the same keyboard/mouse and use my current 17" 720p monitor until my birthday in April.

Unless I can use my laptop as a monitor?
a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 6:02:23 PM

mehta23 said:
Doesn't matter . Checked my online banking and it shows that I paid for the extra card, even though they said they couldn't process my payment , and they were supposed to cancel it :( 

So... £360 left... I could get a nice keyboard and mouse,(£50) monitor(£120) AND a 560Ti (£160)...


or I could get a eVGA 670 FTW ( £310 ) and the same keyboard/mouse and use my current 17" 720p monitor until my birthday in April.

Unless I can use my laptop as a monitor?


Not on typical laptops I have seen with out extensive modifications.

Contact MSI and see what they have to say, if you need a refund, you should explain that to Ebuyer though. MSI is not likely to offer a refund, but a replacement instead. Check with MSI's support online (at their website) and see what are the typical hoops to jump through to get this support done.
October 5, 2012 6:04:31 PM

mehta23 said:
Doesn't matter . Checked my online banking and it shows that I paid for the extra card, even though they said they couldn't process my payment , and they were supposed to cancel it :( 

So... £360 left... I could get a nice keyboard and mouse,(£50) monitor(£120) AND a 560Ti (£160)...


or I could get a eVGA 670 FTW ( £310 ) and the same keyboard/mouse and use my current 17" 720p monitor until my birthday in April.

Unless I can use my laptop as a monitor?



I suggesty you post about your financial status elsewhere. This thread is suppose to be about a specific problem with a specific GPU.
October 5, 2012 6:28:32 PM


ram1009 said:
I suggesty you post about your financial status elsewhere. This thread is suppose to be about a specific problem with a specific GPU.


I started this thread, and the thread was supposed to be about me asking for the members of the forums for help on what I should do , now this fault has been discovered.
!