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Is is worth paying extra for factory overclocked cards??

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October 4, 2012 10:29:46 AM

hi guys.
I am planning to buy an ati hd 7770 card, the price difference between the stock(1000Mhz) and factory overclocked (1020Mhz) is around Rs.1000 ($20).. is it worth paying the extra money or can i buy the stock card and overclock it using the MSI afterburner??? whats the diff between the msi one and asus one coz the asus one is priced much higher???
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a b Ĉ ASUS
October 4, 2012 11:21:54 AM

Asus cards typically do cost a bit more, they just have a strong and highly-regarded brand name like Apple. Like Apple, doesn't mean the price is justified :-) They're good products, but no better than MSI. MSI are actually the company I'd most highly recommend for rock solid reliable motherboards and graphics cards, followed by Gigabyte.

The benefit of factory overclocking is purely that you get the performance benefit without having to do the overclocking yourself and voiding the warranty. If you're happy to void the warranty and will overclock anyway, there's not any benefit to factory-overclocked boards.

In this case, that 20MHz will do absolutely nothing for performance anyway - it's a bit like my Radeon overclocked from 725MHz to 735MHz. Some kind of joke maybe, or just allows them to advertise is as 'factory overclocked'? If that overclock took it to 1100MHz you could probably enjoy a good 5% framerate gain.

I'd strongly advise against using a Radeon anyway, AMD hardware is poor quality and gets poor quality drivers. The only thing AMD care about is getting the highest mean average framerates on their current gen hardware. They don't bother continuing to optimise previous gen hardware when new stuff comes out, they don't bother fixing visual glitches and making games render correctly, and they don't care about consistently high framerates.

If it fluctuates low/high but averages out nicely so they look good in release review benchmarks, that's all they want. I used to use Radeon graphics in the early days up to the 9000 series and they were plagued with problems. Went purely with nVidia for years since and with this card decided to give AMD another chance (I figured a long time has passed and maybe they've started producing professional quality products). That was a mistake. I won't be buying another Radeon after this one.
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October 4, 2012 2:56:50 PM

Kinda lean with the Factory clocked one. $20 is just too much for just a little increase on the clocks. Just 20 MHz man, I mean come on? $20 for just 20 MHz? I don't think that's a good option. Despite that, MSI cards as I hear from my experience has a better or if not the same quality of the cooler as the ASUS one.The ASUS one is more expensive maybe because ASUS is one of the bigger company so it's brand is more known :) .

I don't think AMD is a bad vendor/manufacturer like sam_p_lay suggested (maybe bad but not as bad as he/she suggested xD). AMD hardware are fine and I have good experiences with them. Many people got happy with their products and some experienced troubles. As for the drivers, they are not as good as nvidia one in my experience, but they both got some problems with me. Maybe some is lucky and some is not (haha). So AMD's driver are not as good as nvidia's one but, not terrible at all.

About the fluctuating framerate problem, look at this:



Yes in some other games, FPS may fluctuate in AMD cards. But not in skyrim, as an example. Nvidia cards may also fluctuate on the FPS. It depends on the game :) .

...Aaand Not in Crysis too :) 



As a normal and non-fanboy tech guy, I would suggest both card fine, by personal experience. I am not going to advise against a vendor/manufacturer, except that there is something better to get :) .

But to be honest, I think (before you pressed 'Check Out') you should hold on to this purchase for a while. In this month nvidia is going to counter the 7850 and the 7770 with their 650 Ti Release. Who knows that this card is going to be a beast for its price? And, try to take a look at the 7850 1GB's prices? I saw one of them at $160 with MIR just today. You maybe interested.
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October 4, 2012 3:18:07 PM

With factory overclocked cards, keep in mind that you're often paying for a better cooler and/or abnormally well-binned components more so than you're paying for the factory overclock.
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October 4, 2012 3:21:26 PM

sam_p_lay said:
Asus cards typically do cost a bit more, they just have a strong and highly-regarded brand name like Apple. Like Apple, doesn't mean the price is justified :-) They're good products, but no better than MSI. MSI are actually the company I'd most highly recommend for rock solid reliable motherboards and graphics cards, followed by Gigabyte.

The benefit of factory overclocking is purely that you get the performance benefit without having to do the overclocking yourself and voiding the warranty. If you're happy to void the warranty and will overclock anyway, there's not any benefit to factory-overclocked boards.

In this case, that 20MHz will do absolutely nothing for performance anyway - it's a bit like my Radeon overclocked from 725MHz to 735MHz. Some kind of joke maybe, or just allows them to advertise is as 'factory overclocked'? If that overclock took it to 1100MHz you could probably enjoy a good 5% framerate gain.

I'd strongly advise against using a Radeon anyway, AMD hardware is poor quality and gets poor quality drivers. The only thing AMD care about is getting the highest mean average framerates on their current gen hardware. They don't bother continuing to optimise previous gen hardware when new stuff comes out, they don't bother fixing visual glitches and making games render correctly, and they don't care about consistently high framerates.

If it fluctuates low/high but averages out nicely so they look good in release review benchmarks, that's all they want. I used to use Radeon graphics in the early days up to the 9000 series and they were plagued with problems. Went purely with nVidia for years since and with this card decided to give AMD another chance (I figured a long time has passed and maybe they've started producing professional quality products). That was a mistake. I won't be buying another Radeon after this one.


Nvidia GTX 6xx cards tend to fluctuate more than AMD's Radeon 7000 cards, Nvidia hardware is actually generally lower quality than AMD cards (although this greatly depends on the model), Nvidia has no fewer driver issues than AMD. Ati's past is the past, so don't treat it like it matters whatsoever today. More importantly, the 9000 series was not AMD, so don't give them BS about any issues you had with those cards. You might have had some bad luck with AMD cards, but you either chose bad models (Nvidia has bad models too) or you simply got unlucky (happens with Nvidia cards all the time too).

In fact, most of your argument in against AMD is exactly what Nvidia, not AMD, is doing this generation.
AMD isn't optimizing older hardware because its already optimized about as much as possible. Nvidia does the exact same thing. I don't see news about the 8800 GT getting performance enhancements these days, so I don't expect it from old Ati cards either.

Nvidia is the one going for minimal minimum and over-inflated maximum FPS, not AMD. Nvidia cut out a lot of stuff such as sufficient memory bandwidth and compute performance specifically for this purpose of cutting costs and using marketing FUD to pretend that they didn't and this shows in Nvidia's generally lower minimum frame rates. AMD fixes every glitch that they come across ASAP just like Nvidia does, athough until a few months back when AMD revised their driver update schedule, they weren't always as quick bout this as Nvidia.

Furthermore, an overclock to 1.1GHz on the 7770 GPU is a roughly 10% performance gain, not some mere 5% crap.
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October 4, 2012 3:36:42 PM

refillable said:
Kinda lean with the Factory clocked one. $20 is just too much for just a little increase on the clocks. Just 20 MHz man, I mean come on? $20 for just 20 MHz? I don't think that's a good option. Despite that, MSI cards as I hear from my experience has a better or if not the same quality of the cooler as the ASUS one.The ASUS one is more expensive maybe because ASUS is one of the bigger company so it's brand is more known :) .

I don't think AMD is a bad vendor/manufacturer like sam_p_lay suggested (maybe bad but not as bad as he/she suggested xD). AMD hardware are fine and I have good experiences with them. Many people got happy with their products and some experienced troubles. As for the drivers, they are not as good as nvidia one in my experience, but they both got some problems with me. Maybe some is lucky and some is not (haha). So AMD's driver are not as good as nvidia's one but, not terrible at all.

About the fluctuating framerate problem, look at this:

http://media.bestofmicro.com/9/K/348968/original/Skyrim%201920.png

Yes in some other games, FPS may fluctuate in AMD cards. But not in skyrim, as an example. Nvidia cards may also fluctuate on the FPS. It depends on the game :) .

...Aaand Not in Crysis too :) 

http://media.bestofmicro.com/8/Y/348946/original/Crysis2%201920.png

As a normal and non-fanboy tech guy, I would suggest both card fine, by personal experience. I am not going to advise against a vendor/manufacturer, except that there is something better to get :) .

But to be honest, I think (before you pressed 'Check Out') you should hold on to this purchase for a while. In this month nvidia is going to counter the 7850 and the 7770 with their 650 Ti Release. Who knows that this card is going to be a beast for its price? And, try to take a look at the 7850 1GB's prices? I saw one of them at $160 with MIR just today. You maybe interested.



I was set on buying the ati 6850, but couldn't find it anywhere... :( , the shop vendor's told me that they are no longer in production.... Any idea where the nvidia 650ti will be price at????
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October 4, 2012 3:39:23 PM

sagarmantur said:
I was set on buying the ati 6850, but couldn't find it anywhere... :( , the shop vendor's told me that they are no longer in production.... Any idea where the nvidia 650ti will be price at????


The reference Radeon 7770 is as good as the 6850 with current drivers despite being cheaper and using less power, so that's no big deal.

The 650 Ti is supposed to have a $150 MSRP.

However, there are some 7770s with such huge factory overclocks that they can compete with even the Radeon 6870 in gaming performance and they can be found as cheap as about $130, so I doubt that the 650 Ti will be a great purchase, but that's me. That the 650 Ti increases GPU performance over the 650 by about 50% and memory bandwidth by less than 10% means that it will probably be even less consistent than the 650 already is whereas the 7770s are quite consistent, so although I wouldn't count it off yet, I'm not optimistic about it.
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October 4, 2012 3:42:17 PM

sam_p_lay said:
I'd strongly advise against using a Radeon anyway, AMD hardware is poor quality and gets poor quality drivers. The only thing AMD care about is getting the highest mean average framerates on their current gen hardware. They don't bother continuing to optimise previous gen hardware when new stuff comes out, they don't bother fixing visual glitches and making games render correctly, and they don't care about consistently high framerates.


This is pretty much nonsense. They had driver problems a while back but not recently. They're still playing driver catch up with multi-GPU setups but not single GPU.

As to the OP's question, I only recommend buying a factory overclocked card if the % OC is the same or close to the % price increase. A 20 MHz OC is meaningless and not worth $20.
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October 4, 2012 3:45:15 PM

The ati 7850 is out of the equation, it costs around $320-$350 here(17-18k)!!!!!!!!!! Aren't you the lucky ones....:D 
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October 4, 2012 3:48:12 PM

Don't compare ASUS to apple.
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October 4, 2012 4:21:39 PM

luciferano said:
Nvidia GTX 6xx cards tend to fluctuate more than AMD's Radeon 7000 cards, Nvidia hardware is actually generally lower quality than AMD cards (although this greatly depends on the model), Nvidia has no fewer driver issues than AMD. Ati's past is the past, so don't treat it like it matters whatsoever today. More importantly, the 9000 series was not AMD, so don't give them BS about any issues you had with those cards. You might have had some bad luck with AMD cards, but you either chose bad models (Nvidia has bad models too) or you simply got unlucky (happens with Nvidia cards all the time too).

In fact, most of your argument in against AMD is exactly what Nvidia, not AMD, is doing this generation.
AMD isn't optimizing older hardware because its already optimized about as much as possible. Nvidia does the exact same thing. I don't see news about the 8800 GT getting performance enhancements these days, so I don't expect it from old Ati cards either.

Nvidia is the one going for minimal minimum and over-inflated maximum FPS, not AMD. Nvidia cut out a lot of stuff such as sufficient memory bandwidth and compute performance specifically for this purpose of cutting costs and using marketing FUD to pretend that they didn't and this shows in Nvidia's generally lower minimum frame rates. AMD fixes every glitch that they come across ASAP just like Nvidia does, athough until a few months back when AMD revised their driver update schedule, they weren't always as quick bout this as Nvidia.

Furthermore, an overclock to 1.1GHz on the 7770 GPU is a roughly 10% performance gain, not some mere 5% crap.


Here's a sad example of somebody whose knowledge comes entirely from Tom's Hardware and not from any personal experience. It's the case with a lot of people who post online - they think reading a few graphics card reviews makes them experts.

I'm using a Radeon 5970 at the moment so hardly ancient hardware, and there's next to no optimisation, and has been very little since I bought it over two and half years ago. Somebody actually did a bit of research on this (can't remember if it was THG or somebody else) where they benchmarked driver optimisations in various games over a course of 12 or 18 months with nVidia drivers versus Catalyst. nVidia hardware over that period gained significantly more performance. Keep in mind that most benchmarks people see are from reviews written shortly after the card is released. The fact that nVidia cards gain more than AMD cards after that is a strong pro for nVidia.

When I got Dead Space 2 at the beginning of last year, it was totally unplayable. The 5970 had only just been replaced by the 6990 as the new dual-GPU flagship, and AMD couldn't care less about the previous gen. The game was like a laser show with multicoloured lines everywhere (anyone who has played the games know it's a dark game and shouldn't look like that) and the framerate was below 1fps. Meaning I had to wait over a second for each frame to render. So I contact AMD, who reply to me stating simply that they have released a new version of the driver.

They didn't say 'we're aware of the issue and the new version fixes it' but it seemed reasonable to assume that was the case. Not so - driver update did nothing. Next month and another new version of Catalyst, nothing. Month after, laser show STILL going on but at least my framerates are normal. Month after that, they finally fix the problem. That took four months for their £500 dual-GPU flagship card to be able to play a major, mainstream title. Personally, I don't think that's good enough. Assassin's Creed 2 on this same card, framerate grinds to a halt when running along the shallow edge of the rivers or when camera passes by foliage. Original Borderlands unplayable due to textures smearing all across the screen.

Those are extreme examples but many other games render incorrectly with more minor visual glitches or noticably up/down performance (and I'm not talking about some benchmark analysis made by luferismo or whatever he's called of a card he's never even owned).

As for drivers, it's been 50/50 for me whether or not the driver will even install correctly, or whether Windows 7 will start blue screening on boot, forcing me to use system restore to get my computer booting up properly. Again, this is a £500 dual-GPU flagship and it's not old 9000-series history either, but a demonstration that nothing has really changed since that time. And AMD by the way own the ATi graphics team - it's the same engineers developing the hardware, just under a different name. AMD actually acquired ATi in 2006, but Radeons continued to be sold under the ATi brand for a while after and AMD granted them full autonomy to keep making the same mistakes.

To top it all off, AMD are just unprofessional. Aside from the way the Dead Space 2 issue was dealt with, until about a year ago you had to use a custom install on the drivers to uncheck an installation of a free trial of Lord of the Rings online. WTF AMD?! And even now, they're still serving ads during driver installation.

As for me having unique problems that others aren't experiencing, here's a couple of threads from the last couple of days with Radeon 7000-series cards.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/372273-15-7000-seri...

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/372341-15-hd7850-ha...

Not to mention the fact that THG highlighted technical issues they got with the 7800 cards when they initially reviewed them. Don't be fooled by moronic AMD fanboys like luserferem (infact don't be fooled by fanboyism full stop) - look at the facts and make informed decisions.
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October 4, 2012 4:24:33 PM

jcurry23 said:
Don't compare ASUS to apple.


Sorry - I realised that was harsh as I wrote it! Asus are a really good company - a really strong choice of manufacturer along with MSI and Gigabyte.
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October 4, 2012 4:31:53 PM

sam_p_lay said:
[rant]


Here's some facts: You bought a dual GPU card, had a bad experience, and are now generalizing from your experience to an assertion basically that AMD is crap.

Your experience with a two generations old dual-GPU card is not particularly relevant to this discussion at all. AMD has only recently (with the 7xxx series) started catching up on the multi-GPU front, but their single GPU driver support is as excellent as Nvidia's. You can find just as many threads on this forum complaining about Nvidia's cards and drivers as you can AMD's. And you can find just as many reports describing problems at 6xx release as you can 78xx release. Stop cherry picking just to support your own anti-AMD rant :non: 

Another fact for you: AMD has gained (substantially) more than Nvidia this round from drivers. You're living in the past as far as GPU-information is concerned.
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October 4, 2012 4:35:14 PM

Did you look at those links? Do you know what a Radeon 7850 is or a 7870? They're single GPU cards. I'll admit dual-GPU is also a bad choice, so with my dual-GPU Radeon I made a pretty terrible choice. Would be good to help others not to make the same mistake. I know nVidia is a big evil corporation though and AMD is the poor underdog fighting the power so sure, give them your money. They'll love you for it.

Also, it's not really generalising if I've had the same experiences with old Radeons too. If this had been the only Radeon I'd owned (or at least the only bad Radeon) then that might have been a valid point.
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October 4, 2012 4:42:09 PM

I read those topics when they were posted. You're just cherry picking. There's plenty of threads with happy users of all the various 7xxx cards and there's plenty of threads with people having terrible experiences with the 6xx series cards.

Cherry picking is not a valid form of argument.

If this thread were about "should I get a 5970", your point would be valid. But your experience has no bearing on the OP's question.

I have owned:
Nvidia Geforce 4 MX
Nvidia Geforce FX 5200
ATI Radeon 9600 XT
ATI Radeon X800 Pro
Nvidia 8800 GTS 320
AMD HD 7970 (x2)

No real quality or driver related problems with anything on that list (although the FX 5200 wound up being an awful, awful purchase and there are a few minor driver issues with 7970 CF).

Your point is no more applicable to anything today than me arguing that since I had a great experience with my 9600XT and a bad experience with the FX 5200, everyone should buy AMD and avoid Nvidia because Nvidia's cards have awful performance.
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October 4, 2012 4:42:27 PM

I forgot to mention Rage also... it runs smoother on a GTX550 Ti than my Radeon 5970. [rant] was pretty funny by the way, I thought the forum had done it automatically due to the length of the post :-)
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October 4, 2012 4:43:47 PM

sam_p_lay said:
I forgot to mention Rage also... it runs smoother on a GTX550 Ti than my Radeon 5970. [rant] was pretty funny by the way, I thought the forum had done it automatically due to the length of the post :-)


:lol:  I'm gonna suggest that as a new forum feature for quoting long posts
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October 4, 2012 4:46:54 PM

What if I had bad experiences on all my Radeons (not performance necessarily, I loved my 9700 just for its speed) and good experiences with all my GeForces? Would that meet your requirements for justifying my nVidia preference? My 8800GTX died a horrible death, which you could call a bad experience, but it did its job flawlessly while it lived.

nVidia have always been much better at getting involved with developers and helping make games render properly on their hardware. AMD have a similar (but far less active) team. You can argue it gives nVidia an unfair advantage, but you can't argue with the results. I had a bunch of bad Radeons followed by a bunch of excellent GeForces followed by another bad Radeon. Make what you will of that, maybe I had a bunch of bad luck followed by a load of good luck and it all just happened to coincide?
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October 4, 2012 4:49:18 PM

Here's a valid, helpful form of argument:
"I've a really bad experience with [x] company and so I don't personally recommend them".

Here's an invalid, unhelpful form of argument:
"I've had a really bad experience with [x] company and so therefore [x] company is total crap and everyone should avoid them."

The latter needs much, much more substantiation than just your experience in order for the conclusion to be valid, especially when there are many who have not shared your bad experience.

It's fine if you don't like AMD or wouldn't recommend their stuff, but you're making claims that just aren't able to be substantiated.
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October 4, 2012 4:54:13 PM

I'm pretty sure that ^ was me not recommending AMD :-P If I could get screenshots of the visual glitches, would the claims then be substantiated? Because otherwise I just made all that stuff up for fun right? :-)

Let's not forget also that THG did call out AMD for the glitchyness of the 7800 series cards. That's a pretty big deal - not usually something THG has had the balls to do. Can you find a launch review of nVidia hardware from the past few generations that were so faulty?
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October 4, 2012 5:00:31 PM

Quote:
AMD hardware is poor quality and gets poor quality drivers. The only thing AMD care about is getting the highest mean average framerates on their current gen hardware. They don't bother continuing to optimise previous gen hardware when new stuff comes out, they don't bother fixing visual glitches and making games render correctly, and they don't care about consistently high framerates.


^^ This is where you generalized too much and is really the only thing I'd take issue with (other than the claim that Nvidia improves more with drivers over time which maybe used to be true but is not anymore). Heck, I've used multiple AMD cards and I would come to the exact opposite conclusions to every negative point you make here.

As for the launch problems, Nvidia had some nasty issues with Adaptive Vsync until they got a driver out that fixed it. They had GTX 590s pretty much melting due to driver/heat problems. Each company has various issues that need to get worked out sometimes - it's not just an AMD or Nvidia thing.

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October 4, 2012 5:20:45 PM

I should mentioned that nVidia are certainly not perfect - while AMD cards just generally don't seem to do their job properly, nVidia failings tend to be more catastrophic with cards actually dying completely. It happened to my 8800GTX and I remember the driver update that caused fans to not spin up as the cards got hotter, causing lots to die (GTX200 series era I think).

Thing is though, if your card dies, you return it under warranty and get a replacement. If your card isn't being manufactured any more, you can even get a newer (better) equivalent sent out to replace it! This is a good thing. If you have a Radeon that doesn't die a dramatic death like GeForces have been known to but is just glitchy and inconsistent performance, good luck getting a refund/replacement on that.

Home now anyway so it's Mario Kart time... don't buy AMD stuff people! :-D
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October 4, 2012 6:09:21 PM

sam_p_lay said:
I should mentioned that nVidia are certainly not perfect - while AMD cards just generally don't seem to do their job properly, nVidia failings tend to be more catastrophic with cards actually dying completely. It happened to my 8800GTX and I remember the driver update that caused fans to not spin up as the cards got hotter, causing lots to die (GTX200 series era I think).

Thing is though, if your card dies, you return it under warranty and get a replacement. If your card isn't being manufactured any more, you can even get a newer (better) equivalent sent out to replace it! This is a good thing. If you have a Radeon that doesn't die a dramatic death like GeForces have been known to but is just glitchy and inconsistent performance, good luck getting a refund/replacement on that.

Home now anyway so it's Mario Kart time... don't buy AMD stuff people! :-D


Wow, what? you can most certainly get a replacement if you do it within the proper time constraints. You seem to be pulling these out of thin air with no proof on the matter. I haven't had any issues with amds drivers that a "proper" reinstall did not fix. Then again I have also helped numerous people with the same problems AMD gpus have where the driver does not uninstall 100%, I went through the exact same procedures I do with amd for the Nvidia cards and it fixes it.

You can most certainly get a replacement if your gpu is defective. Sounds like thermal throttling to me, or inconsistent 2d/3d switching.

Its down to the reseller (such as MSI/XFX/etc) as to what your warranty covers. AMD has almost nothing to do with that. I bought my 6870 from newegg and they let me return it simply because I found it to loud, it wasn't defective in any way I just didn't like how it sounded. They paid shipping both ways aswell. Got the refund and bought a twin frozr 2 model(I realize store warranty is different than manufacturer warranty but still..)

At this point I think your just trolling, surely if there was issues like this people FAR more experienced then either you or I would have made it known.
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October 4, 2012 7:06:03 PM

sam_p_lay said:
Here's a sad example of somebody whose knowledge comes entirely from Tom's Hardware and not from any personal experience. It's the case with a lot of people who post online - they think reading a few graphics card reviews makes them experts.

I'm using a Radeon 5970 at the moment so hardly ancient hardware, and there's next to no optimisation, and has been very little since I bought it over two and half years ago. Somebody actually did a bit of research on this (can't remember if it was THG or somebody else) where they benchmarked driver optimisations in various games over a course of 12 or 18 months with nVidia drivers versus Catalyst. nVidia hardware over that period gained significantly more performance. Keep in mind that most benchmarks people see are from reviews written shortly after the card is released. The fact that nVidia cards gain more than AMD cards after that is a strong pro for nVidia.

When I got Dead Space 2 at the beginning of last year, it was totally unplayable. The 5970 had only just been replaced by the 6990 as the new dual-GPU flagship, and AMD couldn't care less about the previous gen. The game was like a laser show with multicoloured lines everywhere (anyone who has played the games know it's a dark game and shouldn't look like that) and the framerate was below 1fps. Meaning I had to wait over a second for each frame to render. So I contact AMD, who reply to me stating simply that they have released a new version of the driver.

They didn't say 'we're aware of the issue and the new version fixes it' but it seemed reasonable to assume that was the case. Not so - driver update did nothing. Next month and another new version of Catalyst, nothing. Month after, laser show STILL going on but at least my framerates are normal. Month after that, they finally fix the problem. That took four months for their £500 dual-GPU flagship card to be able to play a major, mainstream title. Personally, I don't think that's good enough. Assassin's Creed 2 on this same card, framerate grinds to a halt when running along the shallow edge of the rivers or when camera passes by foliage. Original Borderlands unplayable due to textures smearing all across the screen.

Those are extreme examples but many other games render incorrectly with more minor visual glitches or noticably up/down performance (and I'm not talking about some benchmark analysis made by luferismo or whatever he's called of a card he's never even owned).

As for drivers, it's been 50/50 for me whether or not the driver will even install correctly, or whether Windows 7 will start blue screening on boot, forcing me to use system restore to get my computer booting up properly. Again, this is a £500 dual-GPU flagship and it's not old 9000-series history either, but a demonstration that nothing has really changed since that time. And AMD by the way own the ATi graphics team - it's the same engineers developing the hardware, just under a different name. AMD actually acquired ATi in 2006, but Radeons continued to be sold under the ATi brand for a while after and AMD granted them full autonomy to keep making the same mistakes.

To top it all off, AMD are just unprofessional. Aside from the way the Dead Space 2 issue was dealt with, until about a year ago you had to use a custom install on the drivers to uncheck an installation of a free trial of Lord of the Rings online. WTF AMD?! And even now, they're still serving ads during driver installation.

As for me having unique problems that others aren't experiencing, here's a couple of threads from the last couple of days with Radeon 7000-series cards.

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/372273-15-7000-seri...

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/forum/372341-15-hd7850-ha...

Not to mention the fact that THG highlighted technical issues they got with the 7800 cards when they initially reviewed them. Don't be fooled by moronic AMD fanboys like luserferem (infact don't be fooled by fanboyism full stop) - look at the facts and make informed decisions.


You fail to realize that VLIW5 in that 5970 had already been pretty darned optimized for when it came out because that's an older micro-architecture. Radeon 7000 is the first time that AMD finally ditched VLIW and they've made some significant driver improvements since launch of it (granted that it did kinda suck at launch).

Your links are hardware, not driver, issues. They would have been solved with an RMA. I can show you dozens of links from such problems with both Nvidia and AMD cards in just the last two month if you want.
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October 4, 2012 7:14:27 PM

sam_p_lay said:
I'm pretty sure that ^ was me not recommending AMD :-P If I could get screenshots of the visual glitches, would the claims then be substantiated? Because otherwise I just made all that stuff up for fun right? :-)

Let's not forget also that THG did call out AMD for the glitchyness of the 7800 series cards. That's a pretty big deal - not usually something THG has had the balls to do. Can you find a launch review of nVidia hardware from the past few generations that were so faulty?


Tom's called AMD out on a minor driver issue that almsot no one at all had noticed. It was such a slight video quality issue that only a handful of people could see without magnifying screen shots and even then, most people that posted on that Tom's article still couldn't see it. AMD also fixed the issue.

Nvidia cards at launch had drivers that caused many people to have such severe underclocking problems that they couldn't play many games (a problem more prominent with factory-overclocked cards that Nvidia's drivers would have some sort of issue with and could cause them to revert to 2D clocks during gaming). Nvidia's Adaptive V-Sync caused horrible stuttering problems (Tom's called Nvidia out on this too) that it was unusable for many people. There were also some other, more minor issues with Nvidia at launch and a few months afterwards, but those were the big two problems.
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October 4, 2012 7:31:09 PM

Guys.... Peace out...
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October 4, 2012 7:59:19 PM

sagarmantur said:
Guys.... Peace out...


Alright, hope your happy with your purchase, and yes we did go off topic but only after we gave you your answer ;) 
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October 4, 2012 9:55:11 PM

sagarmantur said:
Guys.... Peace out...


Haha yeah that went a bit too far, it's like I insulted somebody's religion or something. Plenty of religious people that wouldn't go to bat for their religion the same way some people do for AMD. They're just a technology corporation people, try not to forget that.
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October 4, 2012 10:14:34 PM

I'll defend what deserves it. You were unfair, so I and others addressed that.
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October 4, 2012 11:04:22 PM

When your basing your claims on illogical one off incidents it most certain does not trump our more extensive knowledge on such subjects, I don't care how you spin it you just can't reliably claim since you had say 3 cards that had problems even if they are one after another its just not a good enough sample size to draw any sort of conclusions based on the company as a whole.
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October 5, 2012 8:01:57 AM

I guess i will wait for the 650ti or collect enough cash to buy the 7850, thanks a lot for your help, i appreciate it..
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October 5, 2012 8:02:57 AM

Best answer selected by sagarmantur.
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