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Question about "Smoothness" and what mainly effects it

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 5, 2012 9:09:20 PM

(Have no idea where to put this thread, so i thought display would be fine.)


Hey all, I got that new graphics card a few months ago (Huge difference) and i think it's amazing, Though i do have a question, And this isn't just for Skyrim but in general, but i'll use skyrim as an example

On skyrim max settings with texture mods im getting about 60(+) FPS, I can definitely run it, However i keep seeing other youtube videos that run the game -really- smooth at 60fps and such, Hell, my monitor is a 75hz and some people with 60fps seem to just have a much "Smoother" game then i do... It's hard to explain what i mean by "Smooth"... So i'll link two videos, both are the same FPS, but one is significantly slow than the other.


Slow-------------------
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vo8z4MkiCxk
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Notice how there's nothing really "Wrong" with his game, but it looks kind of...Not smooth?

"Smooth"
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=...!
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Notice how clear and- That word again, Smooth his game looks?

Specs (Ones that matter.)

GPU: Twin Frozr GTX 560ti (Fermi) 2gb (Overclocked usually by afterburner+ game booster)

CPU: AMD Athlon(II) 645 x4 (Clocked at 3.10)

Monitor is a LG monitor (Native resolution is 1024x1080) That, with regret i cannot for the life of me find the name of. (Typing model number did jack.)




I'm just curious, I mean, my CPU can handle maxed battlefield with very little strain. So i'm just curious if the "Smoothness" is just my monitor, or if the CPU is to blame (Personally, i highly doubt it's my GPU.)


Thanks in advance, sorry I'm incoherent, Busy day.
a c 620 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 9:33:45 PM

Since you have an Nvidia card, you should try to play with Adaptive VSync turned on and see how it affects the smoothness of your gameplay. It was specifically designed to make for a smoother gameplay experience by eliminating wild variations in FPS.

"Smoothness" has been described on several review sites, and the general consensus is that it relates to the differences between the highest FPS and the lowest, i.e. how consistently your card manages to maintain a level FPS. Some cards with a high average FPS may fluctuate wildly between highs and lows on a graph. Cards that stay within a tight range of FPS, 55-60 FPS for example, will feel smoother than a card that fluctuates between 40-80 FPS.

An example of what I mean can be seen in this SLI/Crossfire microstuttering review:


Quote:
In this particular title, SLI doesn't scale as well as CrossFire, resulting in a lower average frame rate than two Radeon HD 6870s in CrossFire. The Radeons, however, suffer from visible micro-stuttering, while the slower GeForces subjectively seem to be faster due to the reduction of the phenomenon."
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-geforce-stut...

One review site that attempts to measure gaming smoothness is TechReport.com. They measure "99th percentile frame time" and frame latencies to measure smoothness independent of FPS variables.
http://techreport.com/review/21516/inside-the-second-a-...

In Skyrim, the GTX 560 Ti does lag slightly behind the current generation.
http://techreport.com/review/23419/nvidia-geforce-gtx-6...
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a c 92 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 9:36:17 PM

Don't judge things by youtube videos, the fps lags as well as recording lags can all be a problem. Also the fact that youtube videos are 30fps locked. There is also no way to know what resolution or hardware the person recording is using.
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a c 620 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 9:41:27 PM

I think for Skyrim, some of it has to do with your hard drive and how quickly it can load new textures/maps.
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October 5, 2012 9:43:13 PM

In Skyrim, the GTX 560 Ti does lag slightly behind the current generation.
http://techreport.com/review/23419/nvidia-geforce-gtx-6...[/quotemsg]


Is it really that noticeable? I mean, Obviously the current gen is better, But would the 560ti (2gb) be totally unable to get smooth results?


And at the risk of going off topic, What's a good gaming monitor? I prefer widescreen and usually play on 1024x720 (Though i can go higher, i just like widescreen.)
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a c 80 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 9:45:15 PM

There's also the movement. Moving the view around by hand isn't as smooth as a scripted pan, even on otherwise identical hardware and software.
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a c 92 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 9:46:20 PM

If you feel much lag on skyrim at that resolution, then its your cpu.
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a c 620 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 9:48:37 PM

Waffleking said:
In Skyrim, the GTX 560 Ti does lag slightly behind the current generation.
http://techreport.com/review/23419/nvidia-geforce-gtx-6...

Is it really that noticeable? I mean, Obviously the current gen is better, But would the 560ti (2gb) be totally unable to get smooth results?

And at the risk of going off topic, What's a good gaming monitor? I prefer widescreen and usually play on 1024x720 (Though i can go higher, i just like widescreen.)

I forgot to mention that you may be going over your VRam limits with Skyrim. When I play, I run just under my 1.5 GB limit with the Hi-Res textures and no mods installed.

Look for a monitor with low response time. My Samsung is 2 ms, which is about as low as it gets.
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October 5, 2012 9:49:31 PM

esrever said:
If you feel much lag on skyrim at that resolution, then its your cpu.


It's not..."Lag", Because aiming is perfectly smooth and such (Except a few instances where i'm in a very...Heavy area like Markarth. But when i watch other people play...i don't know how to describe it, Watch the two links i posted to see what i'm trying to say.
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a c 92 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 9:56:20 PM

the 2 videos are completely incomparable. one is using a camera while the other is using software. Also the zoom and blur from the camera itself is enough to make the look smooth.
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a c 620 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 10:00:47 PM

Skyrim will stutter every now and then for me as well. It's the game's fault. Make sure you are running the latest 306.23 drivers.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 10:18:22 PM

When it comes to playing a game, latency makes games not feel smooth, but when you watch someone else play, you don't experience any latency, and as a result, it looks smoother. Much of what people experience as smooth, is low latency, which is further enhanced by higher FPS and refresh rates.

I find myself getting nauseated when playing games with lower than 80-90 FPS, and they don't feel smooth, but I can watch cut scenes that are rendered just like the rest of the game, and the cut scenes look and feel smooth all the way down to 30 FPS. It's the latency that often makes use feel like something isn't smooth.

Latency is caused by a number of parts of your system, and it adds up. Here is a list of things that cause latency:

Monitor Refresh rate - How often the frames are sent to the screen. Lower refresh rates mean frames wait longer before you see it on the screen.

Monitor Response time - How fast an image is sent to the screen when the image is refreshed. Or rather, how fast does it take the pixels to change

Mouse Polling rate - How often your system updates where your mouse position is. If it's low, it feel like it's a bit jerky when you turn your view.

Low FPS - The longer it takes to render a frame, the longer it takes an action to be sent to the monitor.

V-sync - will force frame rendering and the monitor refreshes to sync up, but this also means frames sit longer before being sent to the frame buffer.

You may also find that lower quality, less crisp video helps disguise some choppiness as well as inconsistent frames may cause some feeling of it being less smooth.
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October 5, 2012 10:24:18 PM

Hm...Would this, by any chance help me?

skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/34
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October 5, 2012 10:30:12 PM

bystander said:
When it comes to playing a game, latency makes games not feel smooth, but when you watch someone else play, you don't experience any latency, and as a result, it looks smoother. Much of what people experience as smooth, is low latency, which is further enhanced by higher FPS and refresh rates.

I find myself getting nauseated when playing games with lower than 80-90 FPS, and they don't feel smooth, but I can watch cut scenes that are rendered just like the rest of the game, and the cut scenes look and feel smooth all the way down to 30 FPS. It's the latency that often makes use feel like something isn't smooth.

Latency is caused by a number of parts of your system, and it adds up. Here is a list of things that cause latency:

Monitor Refresh rate - How often the frames are sent to the screen. Lower refresh rates mean frames wait longer before you see it on the screen.

Monitor Response time - How fast an image is sent to the screen when the image is refreshed. Or rather, how fast does it take the pixels to change


So, is there a way to change these to be optimal? And what would you recommend?
Mouse Polling rate - How often your system updates where your mouse position is. If it's low, it feel like it's a bit jerky when you turn your view.

Low FPS - The longer it takes to render a frame, the longer it takes an action to be sent to the monitor.

V-sync - will force frame rendering and the monitor refreshes to sync up, but this also means frames sit longer before being sent to the frame buffer.

You may also find that lower quality, less crisp video helps disguise some choppiness as well as inconsistent frames may cause some feeling of it being less smooth.

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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 10:31:46 PM

bystander said:
When it comes to playing a game, latency makes games not feel smooth, but when you watch someone else play, you don't experience any latency, and as a result, it looks smoother. Much of what people experience as smooth, is low latency, which is further enhanced by higher FPS and refresh rates.

I find myself getting nauseated when playing games with lower than 80-90 FPS, and they don't feel smooth, but I can watch cut scenes that are rendered just like the rest of the game, and the cut scenes look and feel smooth all the way down to 30 FPS. It's the latency that often makes use feel like something isn't smooth.

Latency is caused by a number of parts of your system, and it adds up. Here is a list of things that cause latency:

Monitor Refresh rate - How often the frames are sent to the screen. Lower refresh rates mean frames wait longer before you see it on the screen.

Monitor Response time - How fast an image is sent to the screen when the image is refreshed. Or rather, how fast does it take the pixels to change

Mouse Polling rate - How often your system updates where your mouse position is. If it's low, it feel like it's a bit jerky when you turn your view.

Low FPS - The longer it takes to render a frame, the longer it takes an action to be sent to the monitor.

V-sync - will force frame rendering and the monitor refreshes to sync up, but this also means frames sit longer before being sent to the frame buffer.

You may also find that lower quality, less crisp video helps disguise some choppiness as well as inconsistent frames may cause some feeling of it being less smooth.



Well put +1
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a c 217 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 10:33:21 PM

Waffleking said:
Hm...Would this, by any chance help me?

skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/34


That would make it consistent at 30 FPS, which could make it seem smoother if what you are experiencing is due to inconsistent frame rate, but you may find it make it feel worse if what you are experiencing is high latency making it feel less smooth.
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October 5, 2012 10:34:29 PM

Waffleking said:
Hm...Would this, by any chance help me?

skyrim.nexusmods.com/mods/34


I doubt it. Also +1 to the "don't use youtube for comparison" point - youtube just isn't reliable at all for comparisons of "smoothness".

Lots of things can cause stutter in a game. I'd guess that it's your CPU in Skyrim and/or you have too many texture/graphics mods installed:
http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-ga...
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a b U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 10:37:38 PM

BigMack70 said:
I doubt it. Also +1 to the "don't use youtube for comparison" point - youtube just isn't reliable at all for comparisons of "smoothness".

Lots of things can cause stutter in a game. I'd guess that it's your CPU in Skyrim and/or you have too many texture/graphics mods installed:
http://techreport.com/review/23246/inside-the-second-ga...


Yea man and theres alot of factors in youtube vids as well.. I get framerate drops in skyrim but for the most part its smooth..Now if i was getting down to 30 fps drop then thats another issue
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a c 217 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 10:42:46 PM

Looking at the two videos, there are a number of things to think about. The first one, with all the combat, there are a number of things that are different. First off, he was running up steps, which cause the screen to bounce as you go up and down the stairs. The 2nd video had no steps, just smooth terrain. Then you will also notice that when he turns, he sort of turns in short increments, almost like he was using a game controller instead of a mouse. Other than that, it was perfectly smooth.

There was another big difference as well. One was filmed with FRAPS or something like it, and the other was videoed from someone playing it. FRAPS will drop your FPS to 30, the 2nd one will not, which is also getting motion blur as a result of using a hand held camera, which may make things smoother.
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October 5, 2012 10:54:50 PM

bystander said:
That would make it consistent at 30 FPS, which could make it seem smoother if what you are experiencing is due to inconsistent frame rate, but you may find it make it feel worse if what you are experiencing is high latency making it feel less smooth.



Actually, you can change it to 60, Would that change anything?
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a c 620 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 11:06:59 PM

Waffleking said:
Actually, you can change it to 60, Would that change anything?

Sounds like you need to experiment with Adaptive VSync at full refresh rate, then there is a setting for half-refresh rate, which would suck if you needed to run with that setting enabled.
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a c 217 U Graphics card
October 5, 2012 11:14:53 PM

Waffleking said:
Actually, you can change it to 60, Would that change anything?


If you can record at 60 FPS, it would definitely be smoother. Btw, was the 1st video of you? If so, the one thing that really caught my eye was how when you turned, it was like it was in bursts. If that is you, are you using a controller?
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October 6, 2012 12:35:19 PM

bystander said:
If you can record at 60 FPS, it would definitely be smoother. Btw, was the 1st video of you? If so, the one thing that really caught my eye was how when you turned, it was like it was in bursts. If that is you, are you using a controller?


Wasn't me, it was just a video i grabbed.

The point really wasn't how slow he was or jittery (I knew about the stairs.), it was just kind of meant to be a comparison and how the second guy's game looked flawless and sleek.

I use a death adder black edition mouse, I'm loving it.
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