Which came first?
Tags:
- Religion
Last response: in News & Leisure
Like the chicken or the egg, which came first? The Great wall of China, or ladders?
This is a question with no definitive answers, the facts are long since gone and we may need to defer to religion to answer this.
I'd like to believe ladders were invented as a countermeasure to the great wall of china. After all, who would build a giant wall around a county to keep people out if all you had to do was raise a ladder? If only we could ask the ladder (or the chicken).
This is a question with no definitive answers, the facts are long since gone and we may need to defer to religion to answer this.
I'd like to believe ladders were invented as a countermeasure to the great wall of china. After all, who would build a giant wall around a county to keep people out if all you had to do was raise a ladder? If only we could ask the ladder (or the chicken).
More about : question
omnisome
May 10, 2011 6:13:10 PM
Oldmangamer_73
May 10, 2011 6:15:23 PM
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wanamingo
May 10, 2011 6:16:25 PM
Science to the rescue.
And the Answer is.....
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-14/world/england.chicke...
And the Answer is.....
Spoiler
The Chicken!!!
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-14/world/england.chicke...
Oldmangamer_73 said:
The wall was built to keep out the fast moving horse raiders of the north, the Mongols. If would be hard to teach a horse to climb a ladder I think.
So ladders came first. They were just useless.
I see your point and it makes sense however I would argue that beyond your version of facts, there are someone else's beliefs which may be equally right.
Take your facts. We don't have conclusive evidence that the Mongols were even there at that time, much less horses. Even if their WERE horses, we would just be arguing whether the Wall or RAMPS came first, which would be pointless because we know RAMPS were here long before humans ( look at mountains for instance ).
I think a reinactment should clear this up. Some people find reinactments reinforce facts. In fact, I have toothpicks.
I will let you know my conclusive findings.
Oldmangamer_73
May 10, 2011 8:11:03 PM
CompTIA_Rep said:
I see your point and it makes sense however I would argue that beyond your version of facts, there are someone else's beliefs which may be equally right. Take your facts. We don't have conclusive evidence that the Mongols were even there at that time, much less horses. Even if their WERE horses, we would just be arguing whether the Wall or RAMPS came first, which would be pointless because we know RAMPS were here long before humans ( look at mountains for instance ).
I think a reinactment should clear this up. Some people find reinactments reinforce facts. In fact, I have toothpicks.
I will let you know my conclusive findings.
I await your findings with enthusiasm. I want pictures!!!!
Max Collodi
May 10, 2011 9:23:32 PM
So the conclusion I have come to is:
Horses are afraid of ladders. However, from my elaborate toothpick diorama, I have found strong correlation between the great (toothpick) wall of china and the inventions of ladders.
We may never know. If only I had access to that owl who predicted the number of licks to get to the center of the blowpop.
Horses are afraid of ladders. However, from my elaborate toothpick diorama, I have found strong correlation between the great (toothpick) wall of china and the inventions of ladders.
We may never know. If only I had access to that owl who predicted the number of licks to get to the center of the blowpop.
das_stig
May 11, 2011 4:05:48 PM
shredder777
June 30, 2011 2:09:39 PM
CompTIA_Rep said:
Like the chicken or the egg, which came first? The Great wall of China, or ladders? This is a question with no definitive answers, the facts are long since gone and we may need to defer to religion to answer this.
I'd like to believe ladders were invented as a countermeasure to the great wall of china. After all, who would build a giant wall around a county to keep people out if all you had to do was raise a ladder? If only we could ask the ladder (or the chicken).
It is exactly people like you who invented religion in the first place, who invented higher being. People back then had to "defer to religion" in oreder to answer questions they couldn't answer. The bad things is that people today still abide by those superstitions created thousandss of years ago instead of looking for a logical answer supported by evidence.
wanamingo
June 30, 2011 2:19:11 PM
http://articles.cnn.com/2010-07-14/world/england.chicke...
Researchers in Britain have been credited with cracking the age-old conundrum about the chicken and the egg. But are they right?
After the publication of the rather dry-sounding scientific paper, "Structural Control of Crystal Nuclei by an Eggshell Protein," press headlines proclaimed the answer was... the chicken.
However, one of the paper's lead authors, Colin Freeman, from the University of Sheffield in northern England, told CNN that the result was not as conclusive as it seemed.
"I would argue that the concept of an eggshell came about way before the chicken, it's dinosaur or even pre-dinosaur thing. That's something to talk to an evolutionary biologist about probably," he said.
So how did a paper about "crystal nuclei" become proof that the chicken pre-dated the egg?
Freeman and his team, which included colleagues from the University of Warwick, were researching a protein found in eggshells called ovocledidin-17. It is also found in chickens' ovaries, but until the team's research its purpose was not clear.
Using Britain's national supercomputer, a machine dubbed HECToR based in Edinburgh, Scotland, they were able to simulate the process of biomineralization, or the production of minerals or solid materials inside organisms.
It was a world first and revealed that one potential purpose of the protein ovocledidin-17 is to speed up the production of eggshell within the chicken so that in 24 hours an egg is ready to be laid.
Researchers in Britain have been credited with cracking the age-old conundrum about the chicken and the egg. But are they right?
After the publication of the rather dry-sounding scientific paper, "Structural Control of Crystal Nuclei by an Eggshell Protein," press headlines proclaimed the answer was... the chicken.
However, one of the paper's lead authors, Colin Freeman, from the University of Sheffield in northern England, told CNN that the result was not as conclusive as it seemed.
"I would argue that the concept of an eggshell came about way before the chicken, it's dinosaur or even pre-dinosaur thing. That's something to talk to an evolutionary biologist about probably," he said.
So how did a paper about "crystal nuclei" become proof that the chicken pre-dated the egg?
Freeman and his team, which included colleagues from the University of Warwick, were researching a protein found in eggshells called ovocledidin-17. It is also found in chickens' ovaries, but until the team's research its purpose was not clear.
Using Britain's national supercomputer, a machine dubbed HECToR based in Edinburgh, Scotland, they were able to simulate the process of biomineralization, or the production of minerals or solid materials inside organisms.
It was a world first and revealed that one potential purpose of the protein ovocledidin-17 is to speed up the production of eggshell within the chicken so that in 24 hours an egg is ready to be laid.
Oldmangamer_73
June 30, 2011 2:42:34 PM
shredder777 said:
It is exactly people like you who invented religion in the first place, who invented higher being. People back then had to "defer to religion" in oreder to answer questions they couldn't answer. The bad things is that people today still abide by those superstitions created thousandss of years ago instead of looking for a logical answer supported by evidence.Sorry, off topic. You should read The Gods of Eden by William Bramley for your evidence. Also, read The 12th Plant by Zecharia Sitchin for more.
/back on topic
shredder777
June 30, 2011 2:50:05 PM
Oldmangamer_73
June 30, 2011 2:54:23 PM
Not sure what you mean. You mean like Zeus, Athena, Appollo? Those gods?
Or are you referring to the ELOHIM of the Hebrew bible. ELOHIM translates to Gods.
"and Prince Ea said let us create man in our image." what? us? our? plural? huh?
yeah, read up on it. Start with the books I mentioned. The Gods of Eden is free on the internet. Google it.
Or are you referring to the ELOHIM of the Hebrew bible. ELOHIM translates to Gods.
"and Prince Ea said let us create man in our image." what? us? our? plural? huh?
yeah, read up on it. Start with the books I mentioned. The Gods of Eden is free on the internet. Google it.
shredder777
June 30, 2011 3:01:40 PM
Exactly, did Zeus create us or did Atman? Is Pandora's box responsible for the evil of the world or are adam and eve?
I will definitely check those books out because, I am interested to see how people will make up evidence.
Religion was invented by men who wanted answers to questions of the world and decided to just say "it was god"
I will definitely check those books out because, I am interested to see how people will make up evidence.
Religion was invented by men who wanted answers to questions of the world and decided to just say "it was god"
Oldmangamer_73
June 30, 2011 3:06:33 PM
Organized religion was created by an ancient secret society called The Brotherhood of The Snake.
The Gods of Eden really expands on The Brotherhood throughout history. I would start there. Sitchin's book is related, and Bramley references it somewhat in his book. You will be surprised.
Also check out this site: http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/religion/index.html
Also, do some research into Astro-theology. It's an eye opener.
The Gods of Eden really expands on The Brotherhood throughout history. I would start there. Sitchin's book is related, and Bramley references it somewhat in his book. You will be surprised.
Also check out this site: http://jordanmaxwell.com/articles/religion/index.html
Also, do some research into Astro-theology. It's an eye opener.
shredder777
June 30, 2011 3:11:15 PM
wanamingo
June 30, 2011 3:12:07 PM
shredder777 said:
Exactly, did Zeus create us or did Atman? Is Pandora's box responsible for the evil of the world or are adam and eve?I will definitely check those books out because, I am interested to see how people will make up evidence.
Religion was invented by men who wanted answers to questions of the world and decided to just say "it was god"
Threres a movie called Zeitgeist out there that presents some interesting theories about why major religions have some similarities.
shredder777
June 30, 2011 3:14:21 PM
Oldmangamer_73
June 30, 2011 3:14:35 PM
shredder777 said:
This is a joke right? Else I fear for humanityThe book is very well researched, sourced, and footnoted. Not a joke at all. It's very interesting. Anyone that has been indoctrinated by any religion will find it difficult to read. But you as an atheist should find it easy. check it out, you won't be dissappointed.
Oldmangamer_73
June 30, 2011 3:16:54 PM
shredder777
June 30, 2011 3:31:29 PM
Oldmangamer_73 said:
The "theory" of evolution explains 'change over time', but it does not explain the creation of life; the spark of creation if you will.No it does not, but it is the closest thing to explaining it, I am sure that science in the future will have an answer.
In any case I'll check out the books just for fun.
Oldmangamer_73
June 30, 2011 3:42:19 PM
Found the link to the PDF for you: http://www.galaksija.com/literatura/William_Bramley_-_T...
shredder777
June 30, 2011 3:45:02 PM
Oldmangamer_73 said:
Found the link to the PDF for you: http://www.galaksija.com/literatura/William_Bramley_-_T...Well lets check this out.
wanamingo
June 30, 2011 4:56:50 PM
shredder777 said:
Alright all living things have similarities (basic DNA code, basic needs, etc) but, I doubt that you accept evolution. I could be wrong though.Well thank you for the pleasant retort.... At the heart of every single major religion is astrology, that's why they have similar characteristics. Horus was like Jesus beta. observe what those shining lights in the sky are doing (Because you have no idea its a giant ball of fire trillions of miles away) come up with clever little stories about why and after a few thousand years of heard it from a guy who heard it from a guy it becomes fact Religion.
I dont know why you think I wouldnt believe in evolution....... I didnt think my post gave that away.
I realize this thread took the natural path of religious debate but I fear that defining god, or gods or point of origin or even evolution will not give a definitive answer on the ladder or the great wall of china.
For the user blaming religion on me, I am not the kind of person to create religion to answer a question, however, since religion most certainly exists to serve such a purpose, I only brought it up. I see that there is no definitive proof, tangible evidence, or first-source account on the matter. Therefor, maybe there are clues hidden deep within the bible, Koran, or other sacred secret-held, book.
For the user blaming religion on me, I am not the kind of person to create religion to answer a question, however, since religion most certainly exists to serve such a purpose, I only brought it up. I see that there is no definitive proof, tangible evidence, or first-source account on the matter. Therefor, maybe there are clues hidden deep within the bible, Koran, or other sacred secret-held, book.
gropouce
June 30, 2011 5:11:04 PM
Oldmangamer_73
June 30, 2011 5:14:49 PM
Oldmangamer_73 said:
Found the link to the PDF for you: http://www.galaksija.com/literatura/William_Bramley_-_T...A regular maintenance shot of flupenthixol and perhaps a low level cortical suppressor like carbamazine would greatly assist this chap in everyday life.
If he suffers from anxiety a beta blocker may also be indicated (rather than SSRI's or anxiolytics like benzodiazepines) ... depending on his pulmonary health.
I don't see enough of an indication to recommend daily antipsychotics of moderate strength or above ... unless is a danger to those around him ... so the flupy should do the trick.
thank you for referring this client to me.
Mingo ... take oldman out and fleece $60 off him for the consult ... then pick up some more beer.
P.S. the book made me laugh a lot ... it is even better when read out aloud.
Page 3 is true ... but we knew that ... ch .. ching !!
Oldmangamer_73
July 1, 2011 1:39:01 PM
Sorry I didn't get that far as I am trying to finish a mapping document for this:
http://www.challenger.wa.edu.au/SiteCollectionDocuments...
http://www.challenger.wa.edu.au/SiteCollectionDocuments...
Oldmangamer_73
July 1, 2011 2:03:43 PM
The chapter on Jehovah is pretty good too. Especially the part when he was leading the Israelites throught the desert riding a craft belching smoke and fire as described in the old testament.
I don't know about you, but the God I believe in doesn't ride in a craft belching smoke and fire. Just sayin'
I don't know about you, but the God I believe in doesn't ride in a craft belching smoke and fire. Just sayin'
shredder777
July 1, 2011 2:18:33 PM
gropouce said:
Why only one god? do you know what polytheism is?
Obviously I've been asking people why they belive in their own god, or gods so many times. But who do you believe in personally. Bratman, Allah, God, Greek Gods? I know greeks were polytheist. I know some Hindus believe that their primary god has manifestations of himself, I know Romans were polytheist before the christians converted them.
Oldmangamer_73
July 1, 2011 2:19:03 PM
shredder777
July 1, 2011 2:23:16 PM
Oldmangamer_73
July 1, 2011 2:25:11 PM
The chapter on transmuting lead to gold and U115 http://www.gravitywarpdrive.com/Element_115.htm
are missing so I can't take it seriously ... Bob would have surely mentioned it.
are missing so I can't take it seriously ... Bob would have surely mentioned it.
Oldmangamer_73
July 1, 2011 2:38:15 PM
anwaypasible
July 6, 2011 6:56:14 AM
trick question..
the ladder came first, and an egg is a giant cell.
cells themselves can clone eachother, that is how they split and form two.
evolution has put in place a different set of steps perhaps, but it is all about how we interpret an egg.
simple people say an egg comes from a chicken.. the people who get their hands dirty with evolution and chemistry, they know an egg can be grown without a chicken doing the growing for us.
these conversations are to get an up and coming chemist into trouble for experimenting without permission?
the ladder came first, and an egg is a giant cell.
cells themselves can clone eachother, that is how they split and form two.
evolution has put in place a different set of steps perhaps, but it is all about how we interpret an egg.
simple people say an egg comes from a chicken.. the people who get their hands dirty with evolution and chemistry, they know an egg can be grown without a chicken doing the growing for us.
these conversations are to get an up and coming chemist into trouble for experimenting without permission?
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