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Is it safe to buy a MSI 670 Power Edition OC edition?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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October 8, 2012 9:35:27 AM

really love that card and it goes with the theme of my rig black and blue, is it safe to buy that? I may overclock a little on it, not hardcore one though.. if not what 670 you can suggest for me, thanks
a b U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
October 8, 2012 9:38:17 AM

I have an MSI HD6850 and love it to bits. The OC editions come pre-overclocked anyway, so you probably won't need to push it further.
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October 8, 2012 10:09:58 AM

I mean the one that has overvolting problems?
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a b U Graphics card
October 8, 2012 10:35:44 AM

cezar said:
I mean the one that has overvolting problems?

hey... there I'm using a MSI N660 Ti PE/OC card and yes I do find the clockspeed of the card boosting to 1189 Mhz all the time instead of the rated 1098 Mhz.Yet I haven't experienced any issues as such with this card whatsoever...
this card stays real cool and silent and rips through any games I throw at it without any errors.
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a b U Graphics card
October 8, 2012 12:25:56 PM

As far as I know all the old PE 660ti's are still covered by MSI's warranty... think its 2 years, so your ok for that time anyway...

...After that its anybody's guess, Nvidia are not endorsing this design and they probably have a good reason, so after your warranty is up you may have a card that could fail fairly quickly..

Personally I would like one of the old 660ti's, they overclock amazingly,its basically a 670! But you are taking that massive gamble... I think all the ones shipped from MSI as from now will be revised to comply with Nvidia's standards though so you may not get one of the old cards... Not sure wether or not they are recalling any from retailers.. Its a pretty confusing topic...

I sort of blame Nvidia for basing all their upper end cards on the same chip, it was kind of asking for trouble..
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a c 185 U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
October 8, 2012 1:10:58 PM

You only heard one story.I honestly think this is from a new batch it's because MSI is trying to keep their customers happy but NV is really bulling them about voltage locking.The issue is msi has already sold millions of these product claiming the voltage is unlocked.I can understand they had to try to do something to keep customers happy, but at the same time follow NV rule.Well this put MSI in a very bad position.Clearly it was wrong what they did.I understand why though people shouldn't be so mad at msi it's NV they should be pissed at but enough of all that talk.I don't want to get into a big debate about it.Bottom line... msi has to back up their warranty on the cards.I have two msi 670 PE not a dam thing wrong with them.I think this might be something they only did with a recent batch of the 660 ti and 660 not sure but i wouldn't return my cards even if they asked me to lol! There something bigger going on then most are catching onto but i am not going to say because i don't want to be involved. The MSI's GTX 670 Power Edition uses the famous Twin Frozr IV cooler from the MSI Lightning and comes with a large clock speed boost out of the box, making its default clock speed even higher than GTX 680 stock clocks. MSI is asking a $30 price premium for their card, which doesn't look unreasonable, given the improved cooling and higher clocks.
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a b U Graphics card
October 8, 2012 3:07:39 PM

Do you think this is a marketing ploy bigcyco1?

I kind of thought so myself, perhaps trying to throw some of the benchmarks a little higher than they should be? and then pretending like nothing happened when someone figures it out?

If that's what you were talking about then I understand why you probably wouldn't want to mention it as it kind of emplies Nvidia may have been in on it...who knows..

Im with you though I would rather have the option to choose MSI's original design, I would just like to know about it in the first place...
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a c 225 U Graphics card
a c 145 K Overclocking
October 8, 2012 3:22:08 PM

here's the original hint right here:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_660_Ti_Power...

Quote:
What I find surprising is that MSI's card is faster than many other GTX 660 Ti cards reviewed today even though it's running lower base and boost clocks. As you probably know, base and boost clocks on Kepler are marketing values - the actual card will run different clock speeds due to NVIDIA's Boost Clock Algorithm. It seems that MSI has added some secret sauce, no other board partner has, to their card's BIOS.


I would imagine a simple BIOS update would "remove the sauce".

But your talking 670 and on the 670, I would be doing the Asus DCII anyway cause its faster having hit a stable 1280 MHz OC

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_geforce_gtx_6...
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_670...

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a b U Graphics card
October 8, 2012 3:40:00 PM

Im no electronics engineer, but was it not a physical hardware change that differentiates the PE cards from the rest? meaning that a BIOS update wouldn't completely fix the issue?
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a c 185 U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
October 8, 2012 6:55:40 PM

JackNaylorPE said:
here's the original hint right here:

http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/MSI/GTX_660_Ti_Power...

Quote:
What I find surprising is that MSI's card is faster than many other GTX 660 Ti cards reviewed today even though it's running lower base and boost clocks. As you probably know, base and boost clocks on Kepler are marketing values - the actual card will run different clock speeds due to NVIDIA's Boost Clock Algorithm. It seems that MSI has added some secret sauce, no other board partner has, to their card's BIOS.


I would imagine a simple BIOS update would "remove the sauce".

But your talking 670 and on the 670, I would be doing the Asus DCII anyway cause its faster having hit a stable 1280 MHz OC

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/asus_geforce_gtx_6...
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_670...

You can't find the TOP in stock any where anymore and Asus Non Top is not the same
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a b U Graphics card
October 8, 2012 9:17:20 PM

In a nutshell,what msi did is over-volting their cards by 9.3V.Other manufacturers also over-volt their cards but they in general doesn't go beyond 5.5V.
If MSI thinks,the components they are using are able to sustain such amounts of current flow,then they're welcome to build such products and if they see it fit after testing,they can always sell them commercially.This is my personal opinion btw.
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October 8, 2012 11:19:02 PM

thanks guys really enjoyed your ideas here, keep it coming LOLS, really love that MSI because of its high base clocks, probably highest i think for 670 that is available, would really love to get one, but that overvolting problem they have been accused of, Im afraid it might cause problem with my system?
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a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2012 12:02:34 AM

Its too early to tell, I guess we'll know if they all start dropping dead one by one over the next couple of years... I know people had issues with them from the start, pc's not booting up etc due to them being slightly above the recommended power requirements....

My guess is the majority will be fine, but time will tell... I'm intrested in seeing what effect this has on MSI's sales.. quite a few people still seem to want to get their hands on these cards despite all this..

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October 9, 2012 6:00:12 AM

so there is a risk out there, not now but maybe down the road? what brand of 670 which is great that you can recommend, that has great cooling, and a little headroom for Overclocking, maybe stretch it to 1000 mhz and not cause any trouble or so much heat
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a c 540 U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
October 9, 2012 7:09:25 AM

The overvolting is only about the RICHTEK RT8802A - 2/3/4/5-Phase PWM Controller chip.

RICHTEK's Recommended Operating Supply Voltage: 5V ± 10%

RICHTEK's specified Absolute Maximum Supply Voltage: 7V
• Operating above this value may cause permanent damage to the device.

MSI's design Operating Voltage for this device: 9.3V
• Reduces voltage droop to the GPU.

In some systems this excessive voltage to the RT8802A chip will cause the Power Good signal to the power supply unit to be false resulting in a system that won't power on.

If you bought one of these cards and you're experiencing this problem then this overvoltage of the RT8802A chip may be the cause if you haven't gone out and bought a new power supply unit or had the power supply unit RMA'd under the false assumption that it's defective. Maybe you even RMA'd the motherboard because of this problem because there is really no way of determining the cause.
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a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2012 7:28:44 AM

Can you confirm that MSI is using these same RICHTEK components and not 'higher quality components' as they told in their response to the Tom's article?
I'm using a 660 ti power edition and my power supply is just a modest corsair cx 500w(builder series).
I get higher boost clocks than the rated 1098Mhz,I get 1189Mhz.
Still I haven't experienced any problems with this card whatsoever.
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a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2012 12:48:58 PM

I wouldn't worry too much if you have one, if the warranty is 3 years and you get through that fault free, it will probably last a bit longer maybe 4+ years and by that stage you'll probably be looking to upgrade anyway..

If it doesn't last the 3 years then i'm sure MSI will be pretty quick to RMA the card and you will get the new design back..

If you are still concerned, I'd wait until the new new cards are being piped out and then RMA yours complaining that your system was randomly rebooting etc and im sure they'll send you out the new one...

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a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2012 1:19:12 PM

Anik8 said:
In a nutshell,what msi did is over-volting their cards by 9.3V.Other manufacturers also over-volt their cards but they in general doesn't go beyond 5.5V.
If MSI thinks,the components they are using are able to sustain such amounts of current flow,then they're welcome to build such products and if they see it fit after testing,they can always sell them commercially.This is my personal opinion btw.


They actually cant just sell them commercially. Part of the contract with nvidia to use their technologies the card has to be of certain specifications. They went outside this and thats why they had to make some changes.
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a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2012 2:08:33 PM

Burgies said:
They actually cant just sell them commercially. Part of the contract with nvidia to use their technologies the card has to be of certain specifications. They went outside this and thats why they had to make some changes.

You know there's two wings to this story...
1)Having some issues with nvidia regarding boost clock
2)Tom's conclusion on the safety/longevity/durability of the card
I was replying to the second. :) 
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a b U Graphics card
October 9, 2012 4:18:54 PM

Burgies said:
They actually cant just sell them commercially. Part of the contract with nvidia to use their technologies the card has to be of certain specifications. They went outside this and thats why they had to make some changes.


Theres no contractual obligation to withdraw the card, what you are referring to is Nvidia's Greenlight program, if the manufacturer doesn't meet the requirements then Nvidia can withdraw their own warranty...

MSI, could continue selling these cards legally, but the costs would be unsustainable as they don't have Nvidia's warranty to fall back on.

They didnt have to make the changes, it was just in their best interests to..
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a c 185 U Graphics card
a b K Overclocking
October 9, 2012 10:21:34 PM

I will risk it i like my cards next year i will go amd i don't like control freaks NV has crossed the line for me
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October 10, 2012 12:12:01 AM

I have a old msi 660 ti that i purhase from frys..bout 1 month ago and man... I oc it to death lmao with speed too 1204mhz ... Kinda awesome... Kill most of the game and flight simulator game are getting 100fps easily and solid......my friend have a same card purchase last week and i cant get the card to pass 1090mhz ... Lol and that the oc pe edition.. Currently im planning to get asus gtx 680 dorect cu 2 and flash it with top version bios and oc that too.. .. But overall the old msi xard before the overvolting blah nlah blah are technically a gtx 670
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a b U Graphics card
October 10, 2012 4:14:33 AM

^thumbs up
I've decided not to OC my old msi 660 ti until nvidia and afterburner launches full support for them.Right now I can't set the power target of the card beyond 114% although I really want to see by how much can I push the cards bandwidth.There is no desperate need of OCing the core clock as it boosts to 1189mhz from 1019mhz a 170mhz leap... my god....!
I know the 680 lightning cards also had this power limiting of 114% but it later changed to the 130% with newer revisions of the afterburner so I'm hoping it'll be the same for 670 and 660 ti too.
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