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From Nikon D70 to Print

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Anonymous
April 16, 2005 3:42:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Where can I find info on the best way to get photos from my camera to
print? I'm evaling several packages, including Capture One LE &
Photoshop CS2.

My first shot, involved picking 10 NEF images, converting to jpeg with
Nikon View, and uploading to RitzPix.com (8x6 w/ border). Picking the
images up at a local Wolf Camera, the images were cropped and they
didn't include a border. Ok, maybe I should have taken care of the
cropping before uploading. I just assumed, digital being commonplace
amoung consumers now, photos could go straight from camera to print with
no intervention.

Now I want to preprocess them to get the size ratio correct before going
back. I assume it is better to resize the image from the raw, so I'm
opening the NEF with PS RAW, changing image size to 6" on the narrow
side, cropping to 8" on the long side, and saving to jpeg, best quality.

But the images look very dull compared to the NV converted JPEGs. Is
this a colorspace issue? Camera was set to Mode I for these photos.

Are there some basic guidelines for conversions?

Thanks,
Randy.

More about : nikon d70 print

April 16, 2005 5:43:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <7rqdnTFWvNQqFP3fRVn_vA@giganews.com>,
"Randy W. Sims" <RandyS@ThePierianSpring.org> wrote:

> Where can I find info on the best way to get photos from my camera to
> print? I'm evaling several packages, including Capture One LE &
> Photoshop CS2.
>
> My first shot, involved picking 10 NEF images, converting to jpeg with
> Nikon View, and uploading to RitzPix.com (8x6 w/ border). Picking the
> images up at a local Wolf Camera, the images were cropped and they
> didn't include a border. Ok, maybe I should have taken care of the
> cropping before uploading. I just assumed, digital being commonplace
> amoung consumers now, photos could go straight from camera to print with
> no intervention.
>
> Now I want to preprocess them to get the size ratio correct before going
> back. I assume it is better to resize the image from the raw, so I'm
> opening the NEF with PS RAW, changing image size to 6" on the narrow
> side, cropping to 8" on the long side, and saving to jpeg, best quality.
>
> But the images look very dull compared to the NV converted JPEGs. Is
> this a colorspace issue? Camera was set to Mode I for these photos.
>
> Are there some basic guidelines for conversions?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy.

Randy,
NEF files are the raw image data. No in camera sharpening, color
correction, nothing. So yes they will look dull compared to jpegs,
because jpegs add your in camera settings for sharpening, color
saturation, contrast, color space, etc... Your NEF files don't do any
of that, they leave this to the user to do each image as they see. In
photoshop you must adjust levels, curves, white balance, saturation, and
sharpness for the image to look like what the camera does. The upside
is you get more control over every aspect of the processing, the
downside is it takes more time. If you lik ewhat the jpegs look like,
then use the highest quality and size settings in jpeg mode and then
crop in photoshop.

JR
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 11:02:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 15 Apr 2005 23:42:46 -0400, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems "Randy
W. Sims" <RandyS@ThePierianSpring.org> wrote:

>Where can I find info on the best way to get photos from my camera to
>print? I'm evaling several packages, including Capture One LE &
>Photoshop CS2.
>
>My first shot, involved picking 10 NEF images, converting to jpeg with
>Nikon View, and uploading to RitzPix.com (8x6 w/ border). Picking the
>images up at a local Wolf Camera, the images were cropped and they
>didn't include a border. Ok, maybe I should have taken care of the
>cropping before uploading. I just assumed, digital being commonplace
>amoung consumers now, photos could go straight from camera to print with
>no intervention.
>
>Now I want to preprocess them to get the size ratio correct before going
>back. I assume it is better to resize the image from the raw, so I'm
>opening the NEF with PS RAW, changing image size to 6" on the narrow
>side, cropping to 8" on the long side, and saving to jpeg, best quality.
>
>But the images look very dull compared to the NV converted JPEGs. Is
>this a colorspace issue? Camera was set to Mode I for these photos.

By default NV will use the jpeg settings stored with the NEF data at the
time of the shot to apply to the image, unless you over ride this. If you
are using Auto mode or unless you have changed them in the camera the
default jpg settings adjust sharpening and tone contrast based upon the
image content. See the Optimizing Images section beginning at p56 of the
manual. I would recommend you turn off sharpening if you are going post
process even jpgs or at least set to normal for a consistent amount of
sharpening vs. auto. For tone comp, set to normal as well.

As I don't use PS, I don't know what defaults are used to process.
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Related resources
Anonymous
April 16, 2005 11:21:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ed Ruf <egruf_usenet@cox.net> wrote:

> As I don't use PS, I don't know what defaults are used to process.

PS Camera Raw ignores in-camera settings. The defaults are either what
they were set to by Adobe, which are very conservative and thus will indeed
look dull, or whatever you set as your default for that particular camera
yourself.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 1:37:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Randy W. Sims" <RandyS@ThePierianSpring.org> wrote in message
news:7rqdnTFWvNQqFP3fRVn_vA@giganews.com...
> Where can I find info on the best way to get photos from my camera to
> print? I'm evaling several packages, including Capture One LE & Photoshop
> CS2.
>
> My first shot, involved picking 10 NEF images, converting to jpeg with
> Nikon View, and uploading to RitzPix.com (8x6 w/ border). Picking the
> images up at a local Wolf Camera, the images were cropped and they didn't
> include a border. Ok, maybe I should have taken care of the cropping
> before uploading. I just assumed, digital being commonplace amoung
> consumers now, photos could go straight from camera to print with no
> intervention.
>
> Now I want to preprocess them to get the size ratio correct before going
> back. I assume it is better to resize the image from the raw, so I'm
> opening the NEF with PS RAW, changing image size to 6" on the narrow side,
> cropping to 8" on the long side, and saving to jpeg, best quality.
>
> But the images look very dull compared to the NV converted JPEGs. Is this
> a colorspace issue? Camera was set to Mode I for these photos.
>
> Are there some basic guidelines for conversions?
>
> Thanks,
> Randy.

This is just my opinion, but I use a lot of older software, so I tend to
shoot in jpg mode most of the time and save RAW for special shots. Using
Capture you can download custom curves to your D70 and get your shots to
look more like point and shoot shots, a bit more pleasing to the eye right
out of the camera and ready to print without a lot of fuss. The problem is
still learning to expose your shots correctly, and IMO I think this is the
hardest thing to do with a DSLR. True, RAW is the way to go for the
absolute best quality, but the D70 has so many settings and with the ability
to change the tonal curve right in the camera you can pull some pretty good
shots that go right to print. Also, remember you can use the "bracket"
feature of your D70 and get several exposures for each shot.

Otherwise, just have fun. I'm still learning, too.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 11:09:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:37:10 -0600, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:

>This is just my opinion, but I use a lot of older software, so I tend to
>shoot in jpg mode most of the time and save RAW for special shots. Using
>Capture you can download custom curves to your D70 and get your shots to
>look more like point and shoot shots, a bit more pleasing to the eye right
>out of the camera and ready to print without a lot of fuss. The problem is
>still learning to expose your shots correctly, and IMO I think this is the
>hardest thing to do with a DSLR. True, RAW is the way to go for the
>absolute best quality, but the D70 has so many settings and with the ability
>to change the tonal curve right in the camera you can pull some pretty good
>shots that go right to print. Also, remember you can use the "bracket"
>feature of your D70 and get several exposures for each shot.

Sorry, I just don't get it. If you have to bracket, just what advantage is
gained over raw by shooting jpegs? Other than possibly getting an exposure
that doesn't have the highlights blown out. Here you might be better served
to make use of the review features that make the highlights blink and show
the histogram. You don't save any storage space and in the time it takes
for you to look at each shot and choose the best, you could have just
processed a raw image. You're also still stuck using one tonal curve. Since
you need Capture to upload this, you could just run a batch process with
this curve, get the same results and still have the raw data available for
those shots you choose to take a little extra time on to perfect.

If you find Capture too slow to review the photos give the free demo from
Pixmantic a try http://www.pixmantec.com
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
April 17, 2005 4:59:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 07:09:45 -0400, Ed Ruf <egruf_usenet@cox.net>
wrote:

>On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:37:10 -0600, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
>"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
>
>>This is just my opinion, but I use a lot of older software, so I tend to
>>shoot in jpg mode most of the time and save RAW for special shots. Using
>>Capture you can download custom curves to your D70 and get your shots to
>>look more like point and shoot shots, a bit more pleasing to the eye right
>>out of the camera and ready to print without a lot of fuss. The problem is
>>still learning to expose your shots correctly, and IMO I think this is the
>>hardest thing to do with a DSLR. True, RAW is the way to go for the
>>absolute best quality, but the D70 has so many settings and with the ability
>>to change the tonal curve right in the camera you can pull some pretty good
>>shots that go right to print. Also, remember you can use the "bracket"
>>feature of your D70 and get several exposures for each shot.
>
>Sorry, I just don't get it. If you have to bracket, just what advantage is
>gained over raw by shooting jpegs? Other than possibly getting an exposure
>that doesn't have the highlights blown out. Here you might be better served
>to make use of the review features that make the highlights blink and show
>the histogram. You don't save any storage space and in the time it takes
>for you to look at each shot and choose the best, you could have just
>processed a raw image. You're also still stuck using one tonal curve. Since
>you need Capture to upload this, you could just run a batch process with
>this curve, get the same results and still have the raw data available for
>those shots you choose to take a little extra time on to perfect.
>
>If you find Capture too slow to review the photos give the free demo from
>Pixmantic a try http://www.pixmantec.com
>----------
>Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
>See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
>http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...


Bracketing is useful if you just want to go out and shoot, and don't
want to have to used the Histogram and view the highlights for every
shot to make sure you have not 'blown' them. When i'm walking round
shooting I always bracket -0.7 & +0.7 and take three shots of
everything then one shot is almost always acceptable.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 6:36:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Ed Ruf" <egruf_usenet@cox.net> wrote in message
news:97g461lad5sp5ttoo01vla82ldq07gd2eh@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 21:37:10 -0600, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
> "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
>
>>This is just my opinion, but I use a lot of older software, so I tend to
>>shoot in jpg mode most of the time and save RAW for special shots. Using
>>Capture you can download custom curves to your D70 and get your shots to
>>look more like point and shoot shots, a bit more pleasing to the eye right
>>out of the camera and ready to print without a lot of fuss. The problem
>>is
>>still learning to expose your shots correctly, and IMO I think this is the
>>hardest thing to do with a DSLR. True, RAW is the way to go for the
>>absolute best quality, but the D70 has so many settings and with the
>>ability
>>to change the tonal curve right in the camera you can pull some pretty
>>good
>>shots that go right to print. Also, remember you can use the "bracket"
>>feature of your D70 and get several exposures for each shot.
>
> Sorry, I just don't get it. If you have to bracket, just what advantage is
> gained over raw by shooting jpegs? Other than possibly getting an exposure
> that doesn't have the highlights blown out. Here you might be better
> served
> to make use of the review features that make the highlights blink and show
> the histogram. You don't save any storage space and in the time it takes
> for you to look at each shot and choose the best, you could have just
> processed a raw image. You're also still stuck using one tonal curve.
> Since
> you need Capture to upload this, you could just run a batch process with
> this curve, get the same results and still have the raw data available for
> those shots you choose to take a little extra time on to perfect.
>
Bracketing will give you "something" good, quickly, without having to stop
and check a histogram after every shot. It's a real time saver, and costs
nothing extra in film cost. Even better, the camera will do it for you
automatically, and the D70 is so smooth and fast...
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 8:29:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Randy W. Sims <RandyS@thepierianspring.org> wrote:
> Where can I find info on the best way to get photos from my camera to
> print? I'm evaling several packages, including Capture One LE &
> Photoshop CS2.
>
> My first shot, involved picking 10 NEF images, converting to jpeg with
> Nikon View, and uploading to RitzPix.com (8x6 w/ border). Picking the
> images up at a local Wolf Camera, the images were cropped and they
> didn't include a border. Ok, maybe I should have taken care of the
> cropping before uploading. I just assumed, digital being commonplace
> amoung consumers now, photos could go straight from camera to print with
> no intervention.
>
> Now I want to preprocess them to get the size ratio correct before going
> back. I assume it is better to resize the image from the raw, so I'm
> opening the NEF with PS RAW, changing image size to 6" on the narrow
> side, cropping to 8" on the long side, and saving to jpeg, best quality.
>
> But the images look very dull compared to the NV converted JPEGs. Is
> this a colorspace issue? Camera was set to Mode I for these photos.
>
> Are there some basic guidelines for conversions?
>

The guidelines that I have seen is:

1. Open with Photoshop CS RAW format and adjust exposure and shadow
2. Do any manipulations you care to in Photoshop (i.e. curves)
3. Crop to print dimensions (i.e. 5" x 7") @ 300 dpi
4. Save as JPEG Level 10 with the ICC profile sRGB embedded
5. Upload to printer and pick up your photos [or get them in the mail].

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 10:00:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 14:36:33 -0600, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems
"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:

>Bracketing will give you "something" good, quickly, without having to stop
>and check a histogram after every shot. It's a real time saver, and costs
>nothing extra in film cost. Even better, the camera will do it for you
>automatically, and the D70 is so smooth and fast...

Maybe. Depends upon what you are shooting and your experience in choosing
what the metering and bracketing parameters are for the situation, no? It
assumes you are metering close to the bracketing setting to begin with and
have blind faith you haven't blown the highlights out. As you state you are
not checking for such. Also you can still shoot raw and bracket.
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 11:45:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ed Ruf wrote:
> If you find Capture too slow to review the photos give the free demo from
> Pixmantic a try http://www.pixmantec.com

I tried that program out early on, but it wont run on my old Windows
2000 machine (My primary system runs Linux). It says it needs features
of the newer pentiums. I'll probably be upgrading it relatively soon,
and I may give it another spin when I do.

Funny though, how it runs Photoshop CS2 & Capture One without problems
and suprisingly quickly.

Randy.
Anonymous
April 17, 2005 11:53:43 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

paul wrote:
> Randy W. Sims wrote:
>> I know some of that is personal style, but there has to be guidelines.
>> Do I adjust exposure, WB, levels, curves, saturation, brightness,
>> contrast, etc to get the right color green in those trees? What is the
>> right color of green? What are the downsides of making various
>> adjustments?
>
>
> With Adobe RAW if you hold down the alt key while sliding the first two
> adjustments, you can see where clipping is occuring, damaging the data.
> Those controls are unusual but can be used to do almost all the
> adjustments needed for most photos in my experience I hardly edit in
> photoshop now except to reduce contrast with curves or clone and for
> cropping mostly. In the raw dialogue, after fiddling for a while,
> un-check the lower left box to see what it looked like before you
> started fiddling. It's easy to lose track & make a mess, it helps to
> refer back to the original or compare to another known successful image.
> Hold down alt and update the raw settings instead of opening, compare,
> fiddle some more, etc.

Oh! I didn't know about the usage of the Alt key; I guess that's what
the TFM is for. I also read mention of the thinks you mention today in
"The Complete Guide to Digital Color Correction" which looks like a very
good book on the subject.

Randy.
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 12:10:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:45:06 -0400, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems "Randy
W. Sims" <RandyS@ThePierianSpring.org> wrote:

>Ed Ruf wrote:
>> If you find Capture too slow to review the photos give the free demo from
>> Pixmantic a try http://www.pixmantec.com
>
>I tried that program out early on, but it wont run on my old Windows
>2000 machine (My primary system runs Linux). It says it needs features
>of the newer pentiums. I'll probably be upgrading it relatively soon,
>and I may give it another spin when I do.
>
>Funny though, how it runs Photoshop CS2 & Capture One without problems
>and suprisingly quickly.

Hmmm. What CPU are you running? I'm on an Athlon XP3200 running W2K.
I's imagine it's the case the code is compiled optimized for newer CPU's.
----------
Ed Ruf Lifetime AMA# 344007 (Usenet@EdwardG.Ruf.com)
See images taken with my CP-990/5700 & D70 at
http://edwardgruf.com/Digital_Photography/General/index...
Anonymous
April 18, 2005 12:22:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ed Ruf wrote:
> On Sun, 17 Apr 2005 19:45:06 -0400, in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems "Randy
> W. Sims" <RandyS@ThePierianSpring.org> wrote:
>
>
>>Ed Ruf wrote:
>>
>>>If you find Capture too slow to review the photos give the free demo from
>>>Pixmantic a try http://www.pixmantec.com
>>
>>I tried that program out early on, but it wont run on my old Windows
>>2000 machine (My primary system runs Linux). It says it needs features
>>of the newer pentiums. I'll probably be upgrading it relatively soon,
>>and I may give it another spin when I do.
>>
>>Funny though, how it runs Photoshop CS2 & Capture One without problems
>>and suprisingly quickly.
>
>
> Hmmm. What CPU are you running? I'm on an Athlon XP3200 running W2K.
> I's imagine it's the case the code is compiled optimized for newer CPU's.

It's a very old junk machine I picked up because it worked fine as a
machine to test software under multiple OS (Windows, Linux, BSD). It's
got a 533 Mhz celeron. It worked fine for me as a test machine, mostly
because it was only powered up maybe a couple times a month. ;) 

It still works amazingly well with Photoshop considering its age,
probably because it has a decent amount of RAM.

I don't remember what the error was. It was looking for a specific set
of processor extensions (SSE or SSE2?), and refused to run without them.

Now that I need a PhotoLab, an upgrade is definately on my list amoung a
70-200mm zoom lens, 12-24mm wide angle zoom lens, a 28-120mm VR to
replace my kit lens, registration for Photoshop CS2, a case, misc
supplies, etc, etc. And that's just the photography related stuff.

Randy.
Anonymous
April 21, 2005 2:54:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 16 Apr 2005 01:43:05 -0700, JR wrote:

> Randy,
> NEF files are the raw image data. No in camera sharpening, color
> correction, nothing. So yes they will look dull compared to jpegs,
> because jpegs add your in camera settings for sharpening, color
> saturation, contrast, color space, etc... Your NEF files don't do any
> of that, they leave this to the user to do each image as they see. In
> photoshop you must adjust levels, curves, white balance, saturation, and
> sharpness for the image to look like what the camera does. The upside
> is you get more control over every aspect of the processing, the
> downside is it takes more time. If you lik ewhat the jpegs look like,
> then use the highest quality and size settings in jpeg mode and then
> crop in photoshop.
>
> JR

That's very good advice.

As with anything, do what works best for you. If you want to be anally
retentive about keeping bits and bytes that your eye is never going to
see, go ahead, but make sure you have a good relationship with your
optometrist.

--
Be careful what you wish for.
!