NEWBIE TO SCSI

Rassler · Dec 5, 2001

someone gave me a 9 gig scsi drive off an old computer and i've never really needed to use nething scsi... not much into servers or nething so i've only used ide...can anybody give me some advice on what i would need to put this new drive into a p3 500mhz system....parts, jumper settings, etc... the computer im putting this hdd into is currently not running and im wondering if i can just have a scsi drive only......can i make the scsi drive the primary master??

Nice people are kool...Mean people just suck :lol:

scamtrOn · Dec 5, 2001

do you have a scsi controller? you need one to make this HDD work. you CAN make it your primary master. let me know about the controller and i'll help you with the jumper.

you keep talking and i'll pretend i'm listening.

Lars_Coleman · Dec 5, 2001

From the last post, like he said your going to need a SCSI controller. I would look at Adaptec as the Mfg. You could probably get a used controller, because brand new will cost some $$$.

SCSI drives don't have master slave settings. SCSI deals with ID. So you will need to know who makes the drive and the series in order for anyone to give you the correct jumper settings for this drive. On top of ID's, you have term power, spin delay, ect. that you can set jumpers for.

1GHz AMD x MSI K7T-Turbo x 512MB PC133 x 2-Maxtor 30GB/RAID 0 = Stream Line Butterfly

Rassler · Dec 5, 2001

i have a ibm model #ddrs-39130... i don't have a scsi controller....im wondering if there are different types of adapters or are they all the same?? this particular drive has a place for jumpers but didn't come with any.... i was reading about how there's addresses where the scsi is located and stuff....can you guys give me some info on how to get started?? so i can run a system on a scsi only drive?? no ide??

Nice people are kool...Mean people just suck :lol:

scamtrOn · Dec 6, 2001

you have an IBM Ultrastar 9ES. i need to know what interface the HDD has befor i can tell you the controller card you need. the choices are 50pin, 68pin, and 80pin. you probably will have to spend about $80 to get it to work or you can sell it on ebay.

you keep talking and i'll pretend i'm listening.

Crashman · Dec 6, 2001

I recommend a cheap, old, Adaptec 2940UW card. These have both the 50 and 68 pin interfaces. If your caonnector looks like a "wider" IDE connection, it's a 50-pin "narrow SCSI" interface. If it has a narrow interface that looks like a printer port, only wider and thinner with more pins, you have a "waide" 68-pin interface. If your lucky, the drive will already be terminated, otherwise you might have to look up the jumper settings.
The card can be had for around $30 if you look really hard, or can be found in old workstations and PC based fileservers for around $5.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

Rassler · Dec 6, 2001

it looks like a trapeoid type of a ide connector.... so im guessing it's a 50pin connector?? so now that that's confirmed how should i go about buying a controller card??
isa pci cuz i have both...isa is cheaper...
here's a link to my hdd
<A HREF="http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/support/ddrs/ddrs_scsi_ig.pdf" target="_new">http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/support/ddrs/ddrs_scsi_ig.pdf</A>

Nice people are kool...Mean people just suck :lol:

Crashman · Dec 6, 2001

Actually that would be the 68-pin connector. Unless it's the 80-pin connector I forgot to mention. The 50-pin connector is exactly rectangular.
Time to start counting pins methinks. You would need an adapter for the 80-pin drive to use 68-pin cable.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

Rassler · Dec 7, 2001

yea i counted the pins 34 on top and 34 on bottom... and the shape of the connector is a trapezoid....so im guessing 68 pin......wat do i need since we know wat kind of controller card would i need....what do you recommend?? how much do you think its gonna cost me???

Nice people are kool...Mean people just suck :lol: Edited by Rassler on 12/06/01 06:14 PM.

Crashman · Dec 7, 2001

Unless your looking to use it as your main drive, I suggest the Adaptec 2940UW, used, and a 68-pin regular internal ribbon cable. $30 for the card, $10 for the cable, if you shop around long enough. I usually get both in used Gateway P-120 fileservers for $5 for the system.

What's the frequency, Kenneth?

Guest · Dec 7, 2001

YES you can run a system on SCSI only.

I have done exactly what you are about to do except I have 2 x 18 Gb IBM Ultra 3 LVD's and an Adaptec 29160 PCI/SCSI adapter card (160 MB/sec transfer) which is a slight overkill really for you.

The <A HREF="http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.html?prodkey=AHA-2940AU&cat=/Technology/SCSI/SCSI+for+Servers" target="_new"> Adaptec 2940</A> (20 MB/sec transfer) Crashman suggested would work fine for what you want if your budget is tight, as long as you get a <A HREF="http://www.adaptec.com/tools/selectors/cables.html" target="_new">50 -68 pin adapter</A> to plug into the card.
But the 2940 will slow the performance down and if you think you might add additional drives to this card (which you will) you really should consider the <A HREF="http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.html?prodkey=AHA-2944UW&cat=/Technology/SCSI/SCSI+for+Servers" target="_new"> Adaptec 2944 card </A> (40 MB/sec transfer) as it has the 68 and 50 pin connectors not just the 50 pin connector and is designed for Ultra wide devices such as yours. <A HREF="http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/prodfamilymatrix.html?family=SCSI&cat=/Technology/SCSI/SCSI+for+Servers" target="_new">Clicky here for comparisons </A>
IMHO I would save your pennies and get the better one just as I did, its well worth it in the long run.

<A HREF="http://www.teckram.com/index.htm" target="_new">Techram</A> also make good quality SCSI adapters

As far as I can see, all modern IBM Scsi drives including yours that have no jumpers set for ID, will default to ID"0" regardless, perfect position for a system boot/os hard drive. Any other devices you add onto the same ribbon/cable/chain will have to have the ID 1-6 set by jumpers otherwise it/they will conflict with ID "0". The PCI/SCSI adapter card will default to ID”7”.

You hard drive should have a jumper position for "Auto spin" which should be enabled to be recognized at power on/reset. All the jumper settings are available <A HREF="http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/support/ddrs/ddrsjum.htm" target="_new"> here</A>
The <A HREF="http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/prod/9esprod.htm" target="_new">9ES Scsi HDD</A> runs at 7200 RPM , a read seek time of 7.5 ms, and with Ultra and Ultra-2 SCSI Fast and Fast/Wide interfaces. (Plagiarised from IBM)

Well that’s a little bit of info for you, heh. There will be more you will need to know when you start setting the Bios up and Scsi boot etc. But if I can work it out you should be able to as well.

Good luck ............

Beam me up Scotty

Edited by scotty3303 on 12/07/01 03:47 PM.

Rassler · Dec 7, 2001

thanx for all the info scotty...could u help me out with a little bit more.... i came across this drive from a friend of a friend who just gave it to me.... i want to put into an older system dat had a hard drive burnout on it.... the ibm would be the only drive in the system... is that possible or even worth spending the money on a controller card??

Nice people are kool...Mean people just suck :lol:

Guest · Dec 7, 2001

Sure no problem, first of all Iam no wizz and Crashman would be Da' man to speak to about the P3 500Mhz. I live in the southern hemisphere and don't know the who's who over/up there!

Besides the drives spin in the oposite direction down here due to the magnetic rotational forces of my glass of whiskey as I drink it!!!!

National major resellers> <A HREF="http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/markeditorial.html?prodkey=national_retail" target="_new">click here</A>
AHA-2940 U $230 USD
AHA-2944 UW $ ??
19160 Ultra160 SCSI Card Kit $230 USD

Prices from Adaptec online are: AHA-2940 PCI Ultra Kit $275.00
No price available for the AHA-2944 UW from Adaptec.Must be a new one which means it will be costly.

Oh well after all that see if you can find a second hand AHA-2940 U card as Crashman said.

To spend that kind of money above on new stuff would be silly unless you wanted to add a whole lot more scsi drives/devices in there and had a purpose for it to justify the expenditure.

Ok.

Beam me up Scotty

Guest · Dec 7, 2001

The question really is, is it going to be cheaper to set up this old scsi drive against just buying another IDE drive?

If so buy a new IDE hard drive mate! SCSI is sooo expensive although better.

Beam me up Scotty

pike · Dec 7, 2001

Actually, i have the same predicament and was looking at these posts.
My old Dec Celebris xl 133, scsi, will need a newer mobo sometime soon. In it i have a "small" 2.2 scsi DD. Also a 4x
scsi cd-rom. When i upgrad the mobo, i will indeed get a controler card as you, to reuse my 2 scsi components. I have seen scsi cards (used) for 15-20 CAD, isa i beleive, and certanly scsi-2, witch is ok for me. For you scsi-2 would be slowing down your DD, but this i am not sure.
As you have read, the configuration of scsi is less strait forward than IDE. We should not be intimidated notheless.
You say you already have a full sys just waiting for a DD.
Go for it my friend, give that oldy sys new life with that SCSI DD.
Best of luck

Danny

Electric coolaid for everyone, except me, never touch the stuff !

Guest · Dec 7, 2001

True dont be intimidated, was just stating the facts as I think I know them.

Careful with ISA slot cards particulary if you are going to upgrade the motherboard later. Isa as I believe is almost phased out but if you have it onboard it could be an alternative.

Beam me up Scotty

pike · Dec 7, 2001

I`m so dam slow at this keyboard, Scotty !
You had time to post your 2 last while i was still writting my response to this scsi case.
I`m keyboard retarded. Voice recon would be for me.
Anyway, is it true he must have over scsi-2 with that ibm DD of his ? And my oldy 2.2 would do fine with an older isa card ?

Also the intimidation comment was meant as a general statement for the average pc person as myself and perhaps our friend (original poster). SCSI, in general, intimidates people. There should be a SCSI AAA club in this forum. The SCSIOIUC one come's immediatly to mind (wherever that may be), yes, that's : the Smelly Codfish and Salmonella Infested Official Intimidated Users Club.
Ok ! must go eat now, back later !

Danny

Danny

Electric coolaid for everyone, except me, never touch the stuff !Edited by pike on 12/07/01 03:10 AM.

Guest · Dec 7, 2001

Many years of chatrooms running at a gazillion miles an hour, ya learn to type anything that resembles what you mean quickly even as a two fingered typist! hehe, need to get that coolaide into ya man!

My first large post in this thread took me a day and a half to write mainly because this site was down for a while, damn it! Also edited and cross checked the info a few times before eventually posting it.

To get the max' performance from that drive he would need the appropriate adapter although the low end cards would do the job with lower performance without a problem.

Don't know much about your oldy, ISA was the standard for a while with some SCSI devices like my scanner for instance and I have that connected to a top end pci/scsi adapter which improved it somewhat. I have to keep it on the other bus on the adapter card as not to slow down my other Scsi devices on the other bus on the same pci card.

Beam me up Scotty

pike · Dec 7, 2001

Even my dam edits are slow .
Everything is slow up here, especially our PM.
Oh ya, if he wanted to play around the small scsi card would most certainly work, as you say, scsi is backward compatible, right ? The intimidating part is most certanly the terminating of the DD, and the ID configuration, but might not be as bad as it might sound. I'm fare from an expert on SCSI. As you say CrashMan could give a had for the config part.
Cherios

Danny

Electric coolaid for everyone, except me, never touch the stuff !

scamtrOn · Dec 7, 2001

dude i'm with you on the keyboard thing. i'm so slow my grandma can jog a mile befor i finish typing a post. :lol:

you keep talking and i'll pretend i'm listening.

pike · Dec 7, 2001

And you said she's been dead for how long now ?

Danny

Electric coolaid for everyone, except me, never touch the stuff !

Guest · Dec 8, 2001

Some info here at <A HREF="http://www.storagereview.com/welcome.pl/http://www.storagereview.com/guide2000/ref/hdd/if/index.html" target="_new">storagereview</A>.

There is a section called "Hard Disk Interfaces and Configuration" under that heading look for obsolete drives.

Beam me up Scotty

EndUser · Dec 8, 2001

Am you sure the P3 system boots? You don't need a HD to find out. Use your Win 98 rescue disk to boot to floppy as a test. And as several people have stated, SCSI does not use Primary / Slave settings. You determine the boot (primary) HD by setting the boot target ID either by jumpers or using the SCSI BIOS software on the adaptor host card. If this is the only SCSI device attached to the adaptor host card, then you don't need to set the boot target ID. By default, since it is the only device, it will be the boot device.

Edited by enduser on 12/08/01 00:48 AM.

EndUser · Dec 8, 2001

You will need jumpers. No jumpers in the JP1 to JP12 option block tells me that (1) the SCSI address / ID is 0 (zero); (2) JP5,enable auto spin up is disabled and requires a START UNIT command from the SCSI adapter host card; (3) most important, SCSI terminator JP6 is missing, so this HD is not terminated [you need a jumper on JP6 to use this HD]; (4) JP7, Unit attention is enable; (5) JP8 Ti-SDTR/Enable Ti-SDTR/WDTR disabled, HD will not initiate synchronous data transfer request negotiation and will not initiate wide date transfer request negotiation; (6) JP9 & JP19 sets HD to spin up immediately at POR [power on or reset]; (7) JP11, SCSI parity checking is enabled; and (8) JP12, these are LED pins that can be used to provide an external light emitting diode to signal HD is in use.

So, you need to make one change, place a jumper on JP6 to enable HD termination.

Guest · Dec 8, 2001

Ok, could you answer a question for me as I want to be certain about my setup, how about setting up two <A HREF="http://www.storage.ibm.com/hdd/ultra/ul36lzx.htm" target="_new">IBM DDYS-T18350</A> drives on a terminated ribbon what would the jumper positions be for that please?

Beam me up Scotty

NEWBIE TO SCSI

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