My first build! Yell at my noob mistakes!

[ericksnetwork]

So I've done a bit of research on my own and this is the build I've come up with! I'm aiming to stay below $650.



http://pcpartpicker.com/p/rlR3

CPU: Intel Core i3-3220 3.3GHz Dual-Core Processor

Motherboard: ASRock H77 Pro4/MVP ATX LGA1155 Motherboard

Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory

Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive

Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 6870 1GB Video Card

Case: Cooler Master Storm Enforcer ATX Mid Tower Case

Power Supply: Antec High Current Gamer 400W

Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer



Even after a bit of reading there are 2 things I'm unsure of:
Whether I should get the Radeon 6870 or the GTX 660?
And if the my mobo and CPU are the best combo in the budget range?

 

[andrewcarr]

You should get neither cards. The CPU is the best in the range. The PSU isn't good enough and you're missing a copy windows so I don't know if you need that or not?

Here's what I'd suggest.
http://pcpartpicker.com/p/rmc7
Overall it'll be much better in practically every way.

 

[djangoringo]

You could switch for an asrock h77m, i wouldn't go for any biostar boards, and save some money and buy, if possible, the 660 gtx it is at 200$ on newegg (galaxy sub-vendor) or a 7850 2gb Sapphire.
You could also switch the psu for a xfx 450w pro, it's cheaper and better than the one you choose, and better than the corsair cx.

 

[andrewcarr]

I have bought a few Biostar boards and never had an issue. Did you even look at what I posted it has far better components, such as a HIS 7870, but I couldn't fit any PSU into the budget better than a CX500.

 

[ericksnetwork]

Great looking build but I now have a few questions!

Why the change in RAM and Storage?

Will this new motherboard serisouly bottleneck any future upgrades to my CPU? Such as getting a high end i5 or i7?

Is it really worth getting a GPU this high end instead of investing the money elsewhere in the PC?

 

[larrym]

You didn't mention what the build was going to be used for. If it's for gaming, then yes, invest in the best possible GPU you can afford. If it's not for gaming, well then not so much.

 

[andrewcarr]

Yeah good point. I assumed gaming though since he was looking at a pretty good GPU.

The motherboard will support any sort of i5 or i7 upgrades that are sandy or ivy bridge based but if you do upgrade to those you won't be able to get a k model overclocked as high because you can't overclock on the motherboard I have listed more than 4 bins or 4 * 100 MHz over stock.

Both memory kits are the same but yours had a larger heat sink so if you do get something you want to overclock and need an upgraded cooler it could be intrusive. Also I just prefer G.Skill and for the extra $2 I didn't think it would matter much.

Lastly the hard drive is changed because it it a more reliable brand (I'll take a WD over Segate any day) but at the same time it's their Caviar Black series which also preforms better than the one you had. Originally I was going to recommend this one ( http://pcpartpicker.com/part/western-digital-internal-hard-drive-wd10ezex ) but since you had the room in the budget for the black series I considered it a worthwhile upgrade seeing as you don't have it in your budget for an SSD at the moment..

 

[jtenorj]

a gtx650ti would give you similar performance to hd6870 for cheaper than the one you specced. hd7850 is a few bucks more than the hd6870 you specced and will give you notably better performance. You can go 1GB or 2GB, but I recommend 2GB because some games can use more than 1GB now and you will be more future proof. The gtx660(non ti) is more expensive but performs similarly to the hd7850. If you are considering overclocking, the hd7850 has loads of potential in that regard while the gtx660(non ti) is generally limited in that area.

As for the cpu and gpu, there can be debate on that too(perhaps if the games you will play will take better advantage of the 4 cores in a phenom II x4 vs the 2 physical cores and 2 virtual cores in a core i3). You can get something like the 965BE for around 90 bucks and a feature rich mobo to overclock it for cheap too. You could stick with the boxed cooler and overclock a bit, or you could spring for something inexpensive like a hyper 212 to push it higher. If you do that, you may want to swap the corsair vengeance ram in you build for a kit with low profile heat spreaders like gskill ares or corsair vengeance LP.

A phenom II x4 will use quite a bit more power than a core i3(especially if you overclock), so you might want to check into a higher capacity psu.

Here are 2 builds. One has a gtx650ti and a copy of windows 7 home premium 64 bit oem. One lacks OS and has a hd7870.


PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($23.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI 970A-G46 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($79.52 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($35.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 650 Ti 1GB Video Card ($134.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec Three Hundred Two ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($53.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Lite-On IHAS324-98 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $643.41
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-12-07 15:24 EST-0500)

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: AMD Phenom II X4 965 Black 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($89.99 @ NCIX US)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($23.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Motherboard: MSI 970A-G46 ATX AM3+ Motherboard ($79.52 @ NCIX US)
Memory: Crucial Ballistix sport 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($35.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ NCIX US)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7870 2GB Video Card ($219.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec Three Hundred Two ATX Mid Tower Case ($49.99 @ NCIX US)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($53.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Lite-On IHAS324-98 DVD/CD Writer ($14.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $638.44
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-12-07 15:58 EST-0500)

 

[ericksnetwork]

Aha, I see. So the AMD Phenom is better than the i3 regardless if I overclock or not?

My question then I guess is; will these builds support an Intel CPU as well? (in case i upgrade in the future). As a newbie to computers I've never quite understood compatibility issues between Intel and AMD.

 

[DarkSable]

The point of the AMD build is SO that you can overclock.

And no, you can't just throw a chip made my a different manufacturer in there - they work in completely seperate ways. I mean, hell, you can't even throw a new Intel chip into an older Intel board... Or into a brand new socket 2011 board.

 

[jtenorj]

You'd want to try and overclock the 965BE from 3.4 to at least 3.7(980BE speed). You can probably do this on the included amd cooler. with better cooling like a cooler master hyper 212, you should be able to push 4ghz fairly easily(perhaps with a small voltage bump). The goal is to get near the performance of a slower speed i5(but not one of the really slow power saving models) so it's less likely to be a bottleneck to the graphics card.

It's true that if you got an intel platform, you could upgrade to an i5 later(i7 is pointless for gaming). My understanding is that the next generation haswell based chips will be on a new socket(1150) so will not be compatible with the current mainstream mobos(socket 1155). On the other hand, the socket am3+ mobo with 970 chipset should work for a while yet with yet to be released amd processors. with the recent release of piledriver fx chips(8320, 8350), amd is starting to get back in the game(still higher tdp, but matching i5 and even i7 in some cases for a lower price). May require bios update(big whoop).

 

[andrewcarr]

To be franks if it was my money I'd get a i3 in this budget still. The reasoning is that in games the i3 still maintains a lead on AMD (although in some synthetic benchmarks the new FX can now outpace the i3, such as file conversion) . Here is an article I recommend you read.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-4170-core-i3-3220-benchmarks,3314.html
Here are the gaming pages.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-4170-core-i3-3220-benchmarks,3314-6.html
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/fx-4170-core-i3-3220-benchmarks,3314-7.html

As for the updating bios thing it is a big thing. Reason being that you need a CPU that is supported to update is. This means you first need to have an install a CPU you don't intend to use just to update the bios and then you can get the computer working on your new CPU.

I still maintain my build is good, especially with the 7870. I'd rather pair it with the Intel CPU any day.

 

[jtenorj]

No, you wouldn't need a bios update right away to get that 970 chipset to work with the 965be. you would only need one later if you wanted to upgrade to piledriver or what comes after(steamroller?) if you decide to upgrade later.

 

[andrewcarr]

Opps I was thinking he actually wanted a better AMD chip such as the FX-4xxx

 

[jtenorj]

And why would that be better? sure it has 4 "cores", but the 4 cores in 2 modules are kind of like 2 hyper threaded intel cores in an i3. the modules might be faster than phenom cores, but there are only 2 while phenom has 4 actual cores. as for ipc(instructions per clock), i3 has the highest by a ways but is lower clocked and locked down, the phenom has lower ipc at a bit higher clock and is pretty overclockable, and fx4000 starts at a high clock but has little left to go while having lower ipc than phenom. Plus, fx4000 costs more and still uses quite a bit of power(doesn't cost as much as i3, though). Being new does not always mean being better. by being older, phenom is compatible with a wider range of mobos out of the box, no bios updates needed.

 

[andrewcarr]

But I would never buy an Phenom ll x4 because I'd either take the newer FX and overclock it to where it is better by far or the i3. Yes they're both more but there is a reason for that and I think an extra $30 is easily worth it in this case. Also to overclock the two you're going to have to invest another $30 into a CPU cooler where if you get an i3 you don't have to. That alone evens out the price and makes the Phenom even less viable.

 

[jtenorj]

except that the phenom has 4 3way superscaler cores while fx4000 has 4 2way superscaler cores and i3 has 2 4way superscaler cores. the i3 does have hyper threading but is stuck close to 3 ghz. the fx starts at about 4 ghz with little headroom while phenom starts in the 3something ghz range and can overclock to 4ghz+. Hyperthreading adds an average of 50% to performance(some programs scale almost 100%, some don't scale at all). multiply the numbers together and you will see that phenom is better for multi threaded workloads(an emerging model in some games).

 

[andrewcarr]

Say what you want, in games the i3 still yields higher FPS so that would be the winner for me when I'm building a gaming PC. If I lose maybe 20 to 30 seconds in a few file conversions that's okay (even though at the moment the i3 is faster in most since they aren't threaded the best).

 

[ericksnetwork]

Best answer selected by ericksnetwork.