Pentax *istDs with M Lenses Stopping Down?

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

chazzer wrote:
> Perhaps someone can advise me if it is possible to get M lenses to work
> with my Pentax *istDs body at less than maximum aperture.
> I have been successful with A lenses and a mirror lens, but despite
> reading through the instructions several times I can't see if it is
> possible to get the M lens to stop down when pressing the shutter
> release.
> BTW I think the camera is great, and my old Pentax AF280t flash gives
> TTL operation.
>

Manual mode only - it won't stop down in any other mode.

--
Regards

John Bean

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <1115469196.467867.8140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
"chazzer" <wsw3maisloir@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:

> Perhaps someone can advise me if it is possible to get M lenses to work
> with my Pentax *istDs body at less than maximum aperture.
> I have been successful with A lenses and a mirror lens, but despite
> reading through the instructions several times I can't see if it is
> possible to get the M lens to stop down when pressing the shutter
> release.
> BTW I think the camera is great, and my old Pentax AF280t flash gives
> TTL operation.

Chazzer-

It is encouraging to hear about the AF280T. I was afraid to try mine
since it wasn't listed on page 153 of the *ist-DS manual. Someone else
questioned a possible voltage compatibility problem at the hot shoe. I
intend to measure mine, just in case.

As others have noted, the non-A lenses, as well as the A lenses when not
in A mode, can only be used with the Mode Dial set to M, or their aperture
will stay full-open during exposure.

There are two other details that I don't think were mentioned. You have
to change a setting in the Custom Menu for Using aperture
ring=2(permitted), and you have to have the AF switch set to MF. See
Pages 101 and 179 in the manual.

Fred

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <fmmck-0705051405260001@aca7af8c.ipt.aol.com>, Fred McKenzie
<fmmck@aol.com> writes
>In article <1115469196.467867.8140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
>"chazzer" <wsw3maisloir@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Perhaps someone can advise me if it is possible to get M lenses to work
>> with my Pentax *istDs body at less than maximum aperture.
>> I have been successful with A lenses and a mirror lens, but despite
>> reading through the instructions several times I can't see if it is
>> possible to get the M lens to stop down when pressing the shutter
>> release.
>> BTW I think the camera is great, and my old Pentax AF280t flash gives
>> TTL operation.
>
>Chazzer-
>
>It is encouraging to hear about the AF280T. I was afraid to try mine
>since it wasn't listed on page 153 of the *ist-DS manual. Someone else
>questioned a possible voltage compatibility problem at the hot shoe. I
>intend to measure mine, just in case.

I recently bought a Hanimex 123.36A flashgun on eBay and it is dedicated
for Pentax film cameras. I wonder whether it will work, too. I've also
got a completely manual flashgun. It's quite old, and when I put it on
an MX, it didn't fire unless I connected up the cable to the x-
connector. (May have been a fault in the MX hot shoe, but I never
ascertained that. It was a battered MX and I didn't have another flash
to test it with.) When I got my first MZ-M, I got a little gadget which
sits in the hot shoe and which has an x-connector on it for plugging the
lead into. I'd really like to use it (and the old Centon flash) with my
*ist DS, but I don't want to blow the camera up, so I haven't even tried
it.

I won't be going out and buying the Pentax flash specifically for the
*ist DS as I can't justify the cost.

>As others have noted, the non-A lenses, as well as the A lenses when not
>in A mode, can only be used with the Mode Dial set to M, or their aperture
>will stay full-open during exposure.
>
>There are two other details that I don't think were mentioned. You have
>to change a setting in the Custom Menu for Using aperture
>ring=2(permitted), and you have to have the AF switch set to MF. See
>Pages 101 and 179 in the manual.
>
>Fred

Good point. I changed my Custom Menu setting as soon as I got my *ist DS
home, and I'd forgotten about that. Setting the AF switch to MF is a
fairly obvious thing to need to do with a manual focus lens, but I have
to admit to trying to press the shutter button and having nothing happen
as a prompter to pushing that switch to the correct position on
occasion:-)

Helen

Helen Edith Stephenson <helen at baronmoss dot demon dot co dot uk>
--
(I'm sure you can figure out what I mean!)
http://www.baronmoss.demon.co.uk

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Gaderian" <nospam@anisp.com> wrote in message
news:KIafe.27237$VL3.967335@news20.bellglobal.com...
> Fred McKenzie wrote:
>> In article <1115469196.467867.8140@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com>,
>> "chazzer" <wsw3maisloir@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>>
>> It is encouraging to hear about the AF280T. I was afraid to try mine
>> since it wasn't listed on page 153 of the *ist-DS manual. Someone
>> else questioned a possible voltage compatibility problem at the hot
>> shoe. I intend to measure mine, just in case.
> I've also had good results with the AF220T (TTL) on my D but I don't know
> about the DS. As for voltage compatibility problems, this is the first
> time I've ever heard of that with the D or the DS (time to google that
> subject).

I use a 400FTZ it is good but it is huge. I have a 260AF in the mail so not
sure what it will be like, only cost me 6 quid so I am happ to have a play,
also use a Incablitz 280AZ and that has a pretty quick cycle time but I only
use it in manual mode, it is reasonably compact but I am happy with the
trade off.

Had an experiment with an "M" lens and in manual mode pressing the AE-L
button sets the shutter speed after stepping down the aperture just a little
underexposed but works fine. I had just been setting it manually but wont in
the future. This was on a K mount lens with aperture funtion, wonder if it
will meter with an "S" lens? Will have to try, I have an old 50mm F1.8 lens
there.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

>
> I believed that I needed to operate the DOF preview to stop down the
> lens in manual mode prior to using the AE-L button to take the meter
> reading and set the shutter speed, but others here say that just using
> the AE-L button alone is sufficient. I'll try and carry out an
> experiment tomorrow.
>
> Helen

That is correct, also works for "S" lenses and with extension tubes.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

BUNG wrote:

> I've always thought those concerns were somewhat overblown.

Not at all. There are some recent Canon film cameras that have a limit
of a dozen volts or so. In the Canon 20D, it is 250V.

What amazes me, is how few people read their manuals which usually state
the limit very clearly. (Certainly is clearly stated in the Canon 20D
and Maxxum 7D manuals.)

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Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Recently, I asked a similar question, and also got the answer of "just
press AE-L to set shutter speed according to selected aperture in M
mode" (not an exact quote, but the gist of the answer). When I try
tried it, though, I found that it works "some" of the time, but not
always. Sometimes I'd press AE-L and nothing would happen. So I became
more curious, and more convinced the answer must lie in issue of the
metering timer, which is mentioned cryptically in several places in the
manual (including an option in the Custom menu to change it fromthe
default 10 seconds to either 3 or 3). After some more experimentation,
I now feel I understand pretty well what is going on.

In short, pressing the AE-L button only works if the meter is on
(otherwise, *nothing* happens). How do you know if the meter is on?
The meter is on whever the viewfinder display is active (showing you
shutter speed, etc). The meter is off by default, but gets turned on
when you do one of two things - do a depth of field preview, or press
the shutter halfway. The DOF preview also stops down the lens for the
duration of the preview and shows you the EV value for the currently
selected aperture and shutter speed. Pressing the shutter halfway
neither stops down the lens nor shows you EV value. But either way, the
viewfinder display activates, meaning the meter is on for the next few
seconds, and that is the window in which you can then press AE-L to set
the shutter speed for the selected aperture. Because this requires
stopping down the lens again, it seems a waste to have done this using
the DOF preview, so I recommend simply doing the shutter half-press to
start the meter. By default, you've got ten seconds to do the AE-L -
and you'll know times is up because the viewfinder display deactivates
again. As I said, there is an option to change this time; presumably
there is a battery life tradeoff involved. But once the meter turns
off, simply pressing the shutter halfway again starts it up again.

BTW, this of course is all regarding M mode. P, Av, and Tv modes all
basically turn into the same thing when using a manual aperture lens: a
sort of crippled Av mode in which the lens stays fully open at all
times. People have been blowing this off as if it were useless, but I'm
thinking this is a "bug" that could easily be seen as a "feature".
Consider: the main reason I'd ever have my manual lens on the camera in
the first place is because I knew there wouldn't be enough light to
allow hand-held flashless pictures with the kit lens, such in poorly lit
interiors, and my manaul lens opens up to 1.7. Well, in those cases,
I'm probably going to *want* maximum aperture in order to get the
fastest shutter speed I can. And Av mode works just fine if you want to
take a series of pictures under these conditions. You still have to
focus manually, of course (practically a given in low light even with an
AF lens), but the shutter speed is set for each shot without any
fiddling with DOF preview or the AE-L button. Of course, at 1.7, I've
got hardly any depth of field, and am thinking that in practice, maybe I
should have bought a *slightly* slower manual lens for this
application...

--------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com

The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <117veotd0qmdg78@corp.supernews.com>, Marc Sabatella
<marc@outsideshore.com> writes
>Recently, I asked a similar question, and also got the answer of "just
>press AE-L to set shutter speed according to selected aperture in M
>mode" (not an exact quote, but the gist of the answer). When I try
>tried it, though, I found that it works "some" of the time, but not
>always.
[snip]
>In short, pressing the AE-L button only works if the meter is on
>(otherwise, *nothing* happens). How do you know if the meter is on?
>The meter is on whever the viewfinder display is active (showing you
>shutter speed, etc). The meter is off by default, but gets turned on
>when you do one of two things - do a depth of field preview, or press
>the shutter halfway.
[snip]

Yes, I agree with all this. You also need to press the shutter half way
if you decide that you want to view an image on the back panel and the
camera's gone to sleep.

>BTW, this of course is all regarding M mode. P, Av, and Tv modes all
>basically turn into the same thing when using a manual aperture lens: a
>sort of crippled Av mode in which the lens stays fully open at all
>times. People have been blowing this off as if it were useless, but I'm
>thinking this is a "bug" that could easily be seen as a "feature".
>Consider: the main reason I'd ever have my manual lens on the camera in
>the first place is because I knew there wouldn't be enough light to
>allow hand-held flashless pictures with the kit lens, such in poorly lit
>interiors, and my manaul lens opens up to 1.7. Well, in those cases,
>I'm probably going to *want* maximum aperture in order to get the
>fastest shutter speed I can. And Av mode works just fine if you want to
>take a series of pictures under these conditions. You still have to
>focus manually, of course (practically a given in low light even with an
>AF lens), but the shutter speed is set for each shot without any
>fiddling with DOF preview or the AE-L button. Of course, at 1.7, I've
>got hardly any depth of field, and am thinking that in practice, maybe I
>should have bought a *slightly* slower manual lens for this
>application...
>
>--------------
>Marc Sabatella

Well, I *do* use a 50mm f1.7 for this reason, and I've got a slightly
slower 35mm lens as well, also for the same reason.

The lens I most often use on my *ist DS is a 1970s-vintage Tamron 85-210
and I use that because I don't own a telephoto zoom which covers those
focal lengths and which has an 'A' position, so for me, it feels more
like a "bug" than a "feature".

Incidentally, the aforementioned Tamron 85-210 can be stopped down on
the lens. I discovered this accidentally one day when I knocked the
relevant lever into the stopped-down position after I'd owned the lens
for well over 20 years:-)

I've been wondering whether I can utilise this feature of the lens to
get it to work with Av mode, but so far I haven't tried it under
circumstances where it's actually worked. (I tried it on a night shoot
and presumably the meter couldn't get enough light to operate and
calculate a 15-30 second exposure when working through the stopped-down
lens. We agreed in here a week or two ago that the meter probably needs
an open aperture to work when calculating those longer exposures.)

It seems to me that if the lens is stopped down on the lens that it's
functioning like a fixed aperture lens and it *ought* to work, just like
my 500mm f8 mirror lens works. If I think about it, I'll do some
experimentation.

Helen

Helen Edith Stephenson <helen at baronmoss dot demon dot co dot uk>
--
(I'm sure you can figure out what I mean!)
http://www.baronmoss.demon.co.uk

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Marc Sabatella <marc@outsideshore.com> wrote:

> BTW, this of course is all regarding M mode. P, Av, and Tv modes all
> basically turn into the same thing when using a manual aperture lens: a
> sort of crippled Av mode in which the lens stays fully open at all
> times. People have been blowing this off as if it were useless, but I'm
> thinking this is a "bug" that could easily be seen as a "feature".
> Consider: the main reason I'd ever have my manual lens on the camera in
> the first place is because I knew there wouldn't be enough light to
> allow hand-held flashless pictures with the kit lens, such in poorly lit
> interiors, and my manaul lens opens up to 1.7. Well, in those cases,
> I'm probably going to *want* maximum aperture in order to get the
> fastest shutter speed I can. [..]

I'd really much rather be able to set an aperture and have the camera
guess an exposure when I press the shutter, in Av mode. You can always
set the aperture to 1.7 if you want, and also stop down to whatever
you'd like, too. Low light isn't the *only* reason to put an M lens on
your camera, you know.... :-)

If the AE-L button can guess an exposure after closing the aperture in M
mode, then the camera should also be able to do it in Av mode when you
press the shutter button. It's not a feature, it's a bug.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

John Francis <johnf@panix.com> wrote:

> In article <1gwb9qx.15oodc9it4p2bN%usenet@mile23.c0m>,
> Paul Mitchum <usenet@mile23.c0m> wrote:
[..]
> >I'd really much rather be able to set an aperture and have the camera
> >guess an exposure when I press the shutter, in Av mode. You can always
> >set the aperture to 1.7 if you want, and also stop down to whatever you'd
> >like, too. Low light isn't the *only* reason to put an M lens on your
> >camera, you know.... :-)
> >
> >If the AE-L button can guess an exposure after closing the aperture in M
> >mode, then the camera should also be able to do it in Av mode when you
> >press the shutter button. It's not a feature, it's a bug.
>
> You're not thinking it through.

I wouldn't say *that*... :-)

> In Av mode, you should get continuous metering, with an in-viewfinder
> display of the shutter speed that will be chosen when you press the
> shutter. The camera is physically unable to do that with an old lens
> mounted; it has no way of detecting that you might have changed the
> aperture setting.
>
> It's possible for the camera to work (more or less) in manual mode,
> because then there is no expectation of continuous updating of the
> exposure settings; once you've set the shutter speed, it doesn't change
> until you do something yourself to change it.

I see your point. In Av, you want the camera to give you a shake warning
light or some such, at least.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <d5pbf6$2hk$1@reader1.panix.com>, johnf@panix.com (John
Francis) wrote:

> You're not thinking it through. In Av mode, you should get continuous
> metering, with an in-viewfinder display of the shutter speed that will
> be chosen when you press the shutter. The camera is physically unable
> to do that with an old lens mounted; it has no way of detecting that
> you might have changed the aperture setting.

John-

There is no way to tell the actual f/stop but a lever on the lens moves
when the aperture ring is turned, telling the body how many stops below
full-open it is set for.

Fred

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <117vu9695lmub52@corp.supernews.com>, Marc Sabatella
<marc@outsideshore.com> writes
>"Helen Edith Stephenson" <helen@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> We agreed in here a week or two ago that the meter probably needs
>> an open aperture to work when calculating those longer exposures.)
>
>Also, focusing can be difficult through a stopped lens.
>
>--------------
>Marc Sabatella

Agreed. I'd most likely open the aperture up to focus and then stop it
down to meter. I had that lens on the camera this evening, but didn't do
any experimenting, as I was using the lens wide open anyway.

I did take some pictures in such low light conditions that I simply
couldn't see to focus my 50mm f1.7 (they were 8 minute exposures at f5.6
if I remember correctly. <g> ) and so I set the focus on the lens using
the depth of field scale. It worked quite well, and I must repeat the
exercise on my *ist DS on a moonlit night.

Helen

Helen Edith Stephenson <helen at baronmoss dot demon dot co dot uk>
--
(I'm sure you can figure out what I mean!)
http://www.baronmoss.demon.co.uk

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> I really like the *istDs but think the colour is a little too
saturated

Are you using the "bright" or "natural" setting in the main menu?
Default is "bright", but "natural" is definitely, well, like it says.

--------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com

The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/