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Alright man, this is it, decision time o.O

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December 11, 2012 8:02:36 AM

I've been reading all over the net these past couple weeks deciding what best to upgrade my aged CPU/mobo/ram with (including making threads here), and the only thing I've accomplished is helping me to go bald from running my hands through my hair so much.

However, it seems now my decision might be made for me. I had been under the impression my somewhat old Geforce 9500 GT would suffice for games. I guess just in the scramble of focusing so much on deciding the correct CPU for what I wanted I glazed over when it came to my video card. I did look into it on Youtube and the like, but apparently not very well; never mind if the CPU could handle the multi-tasking/light media-editing/gaming I wanted it to if I can't play any games because I overlooked my GPU!

So, seeing as I have a budget of max $230 (this is part my savings, which can't change, and part xmas, which can't change), it is looking like I may be forced to get one of the Trinity AMD APU's.

From what I am reading, it would seem that if I get fast ram, and enough of it, this APU could handle games such as Red Faction Armageddon, Far Cry 3, etc both in the GPU and CPU department.

So my questions to you, denizens of tomshardware, is:

1) This Geforce 9500 gt card will not handle modern games very well, if at all, right?

2) Will this AMD APU(or one like it) handle it, assuming I pair it with the right amount and speed of ram?

3) Or, if any of you feel like it, could you suggest a better GPU/CPU combo or APU that would leave me with enough to get an accommodating Mobo/ram? If that is even possible with my budget. Keep in mind however, that even though my priority now is making sure I can still game, I do still want to be able to render/multi-task heavily as best as I can.
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December 11, 2012 8:20:39 AM

I'm seeing reviews on your Geforce 9500 gt like: improved my gaming graphics by a whole ton, 55 FPS average on COD4 with 2x AA 1280x720 resolution. 50 FPS average on COD5 1280x720 no AA. & This is a simple upgrade to any computer as most video chips attached to the mother board are not meant for gaming. This will help provide you with the ability to play simple multi platformer games. Skyrim, Assassin's Creed, etc. But not high end games like Battlefield 3
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December 11, 2012 9:21:13 AM

dsventimiglia said:
I'm seeing reviews on your Geforce 9500 gt like: improved my gaming graphics by a whole ton, 55 FPS average on COD4 with 2x AA 1280x720 resolution. 50 FPS average on COD5 1280x720 no AA. & This is a simple upgrade to any computer as most video chips attached to the mother board are not meant for gaming. This will help provide you with the ability to play simple multi platformer games. Skyrim, Assassin's Creed, etc. But not high end games like Battlefield 3


Yea and that is what worries me. Those games are old, appropriately enough they are about as old as my graphics card so those reviews make perfect sense. I am looking to play more modern games.

Also, this isn't the old-style "on board", this is a modern "integrated"APU....I admit I don't know if that matters in the end (I imagine it does somehow), but there is a difference seeing as one is "on board" the motherboard in the chipset and the other is "integrated" into the CPU.

Yes, this is an integrated chip, but integrated has come a long ways (I am aware it is still not as good as a new, quality discrete but that isn't the issue I'm trying to address). Not to mention that AMD kind of built these chips with the whole mantra of trying as best they could to give an integrated the look and feel of a discrete.

To bring this back around to my original question. Are the new Trinity APUs more powerful than my old discrete Geforce 9500 gt, and if it is, can it handle modern games at all?
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Related resources
a b B Homebuilt system
December 11, 2012 9:34:55 AM

Radeon HD 6000-derived graphics core that packs between 160 and 400 stream processors, which work at either 400MHz or 444MHz.

hmmm soo thats amd's answer to Intel's HD Graphics 4000

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December 11, 2012 9:46:45 AM

dsventimiglia said:
read this artical http://www.dailygadgets.net/integrated-gpu-intel-hd-400...

it looks like Trinity APUs will be on par if not better for gaming then the Intel's HD Graphics 4000 witch im more familure with. Im going to have to say yes to your ? but pls let me know how the testing goes :) 


Yes. Which APU are you talking about? The A10?
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December 11, 2012 10:51:19 AM




Is it though? That card you linked is just a notch or two above the root card for the integrated I linked too. And those two combined bring me to $155 which leave me about $75 for both the mobo and the ram for it, and the dead cheapest mobo for that is $45 and it only supports the lowest end ram and has so-so ratings. I could take the extra money I'd save getting the APU and put it towards a good amount of decent ram, supposedly making the dedicated GPU ram advantage not so much an advantage (seeing as the A-series APUs rely heavily on the amount/speed of ram)

Remember, my focus with the CPU isn't gaming, it is part of it, but unless that A10 has problems handling it, I am not too caught up with that. For CPU usage I want heavy-thread apps like light media editing & some heavy multi-tasking (game playing/recording, youtube/streams, Vent being used), as well as games just by themselves. So I am not sure it warrants switching to a sandy-bridge Intel for the CPU power's sake when some of what I want to do would be better handled by more cores at a higher hertz, and then I'd have to spend money on a discrete card.

I appreciate the input, I really do, but my budget is very tight and the CPU power isn't the issue here (so the whole Intel vs AMd thing is nixed). I know the 3.8GHz quad is enough to handle most of the multi-tasking/heavy thread apps I can throw at it at least as well as an equally priced Intel , and will run most every game well enough for me, though admittedly not as well as an Intel. So recommending me to buy a set of parts where I'm spending more than I originally was and gives me "more" power where I don't necessarily need it isn't much help, and any more part suggestions, please remember those things and leave manufacture allegiances at the door (I've seen way too many threads with AMD in them devolve into a Intel/AMD war and OP never gets his answer).


My main concern is this (bold used for focus, not aggressively) =D

That I am correct in my assumption that my 4 year old Geforce 9500 GT is not up to the task of running modern games decently, if at all; and if I am correct in that, will one of the higher end A-series be better and capable of handling fancy modern games? (if even on lower settings for some, that's better than not at all)
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December 11, 2012 10:55:32 AM

Epicman said:
Is it though? That card you linked is just a notch or two above the root card for the integrated I linked too. And those two combined bring me to $155 which leave me about $75 for both the mobo and the ram for it, and the dead cheapest mobo for that is $45 and it only supports the lowest end ram and has so-so ratings. I could take the extra money I'd save getting the APU and put it towards a good amount of decent ram, supposedly making the dedicated GPU ram advantage not so much an advantage (seeing as the A-series APUs rely heavily on the amount/speed of ram)

Remember, my focus with the CPU isn't gaming, it is part of it, but unless that A10 has problems handling it, I am not too caught up with that. For CPU usage I want heavy-thread apps like light media editing & some heavy multi-tasking (game playing/recording, youtube/streams, Vent being used), as well as games just by themselves. So I am not sure it warrants switching to a sandy-bridge Intel for the CPU power's sake when some of what I want to do would be better handled by more cores at a higher hertz, and then I'd have to spend money on a discrete card.

I appreciate the input, I really do, but my budget is very tight and the CPU power isn't the issue here (so the whole Intel vs AMd thing is nixed). I know the 3.8GHz quad is enough to handle most of the multi-tasking/heavy thread apps I can throw at it at least as well as an equally priced Intel , and will run most every game well enough for me, though admittedly not as well as an Intel. So recommending me to buy a set of parts where I'm spending more than I originally was and gives me "more" power where I don't necessarily need it isn't much help, and any more part suggestions, please remember those things and leave manufacture allegiances at the door (I've seen way too many threads with AMD in them devolve into a Intel/AMD war and OP never gets his answer).


My main concern is this (bold used for focus, not aggressively) =D

That I am correct in my assumption that my 4 year old Geforce 9500 GT is not up to the task of running modern games decently, if at all; and if I am correct in that, will one of the higher end A-series be better and capable of handling fancy modern games? (if even on lower settings for some, that's better than not at all)


If you only have $230 for the CPU/GPU, Mobo, AND RAM, then I would definitely wait until you come into more funds. The Pentium is just a cheap good CPU that's why I picked it.
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December 11, 2012 11:37:16 AM

samuelspark said:
If you only have $230 for the CPU/GPU, Mobo, AND RAM, then I would definitely wait until you come into more funds. The Pentium is just a cheap good CPU that's why I picked it.


Dude, no offense, but could you be any less constructive?

I ask for help in very specific circumstances:

"Well here's some stuff that doesn't fit your situation, offers you less of what you want and more of what you didn't ask for"

I reiterate my situation:

"find more money"

Don't you think If I could spend more I would? If I had to wait until Christmas to pool this together, do you think I am coming across extra funds any time soon? If 100 more dollars was a month away, don't you'd think I'd wait? I didn't just say I have a max budget that can't change for laughs. I've dealt with a 7 year old single core for that entire 7 years and I don't want to deal with it for who knows how long much longer until I scrounge up more money for a discrete card. Besides, whenever I do come up with the money for it, I can then crossfire the integrated with the discrete...unless you mean I need more money for the CPU part in which case reread what I've said please.
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December 11, 2012 11:49:28 AM

I really don't like to come off as a jerk, but when I've been racking my brain for weeks now trying to come to a decision and then people give me replies seemingly based off of what they want to tell people and not what was asked..It is just so aggravating.

I see so many threads where people come asking one thing and somewhere in their post they mention an AMD and half the replies in that thread turn into "Man, get this Intel so&so, intel all the way!" even if the CPU wasn't part of the issue or even if the AMD would be better for what they want or their budget.

I know that Intel is a good cheap cpu, and so is an AMD with twice the cores, 1/3 more frequency per core, and the same manufacture tech..especially for what I want, but none of that even really matters for this post unless it was part of a greater deal, which it wasn't.

I'm sorry for being harsh although I feel it was justified but I will try to refrain from it if any more replies try to actually answer the question I am asking.

edit: That question being "Is my old video card not up to par like I suspect, and if it isn't, will one of the higher end versions of the new A-Series get the job done graphically if paired with the right amount and speed of ram?"...and if you want to give me parts suggestions, please take into consideration what I've said.
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December 11, 2012 12:01:51 PM

Epicman said:
I really don't like to come off as a jerk, but when I've been racking my brain for weeks now trying to come to a decision and then people give me replies seemingly based off of what they want to tell people and not what was asked..It is just so aggravating.

I see so many threads where people come asking one thing and somewhere in their post they mention an AMD and half the replies in that thread turn into "Man, get this Intel so&so, intel all the way!" even if the CPU wasn't part of the issue or even if the AMD would be better for what they want or their budget.

I know that Intel is a good cheap cpu, and so is an AMD with twice the cores, 1/3 more frequency per core, and the same manufacture tech..especially for what I want, but none of that even really matters for this post unless it was part of a greater deal, which it wasn't.

I'm sorry for being harsh although I feel it was justified but I will try to refrain from it if any more replies try to actually answer the question I am asking.

edit: That question being "Is my old video card not up to par like I suspect, and if it isn't, will one of the higher end versions of the new A-Series get the job done graphically if paired with the right amount and speed of ram?"...and if you want to give me parts suggestions, please take into consideration what I've said.


Already answered that a while ago.
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December 11, 2012 11:35:27 PM

samuelspark said:
Already answered that a while ago.


You did? where?

Your replies are:

Quote:
Yes. Which APU are you talking about? The A10?


In response to another guy linking an article about them being better than Intel integrated graphics, which doesn't answer my question.

Quote:
Try http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819116406 with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814131481 . Much better for gaming.


Telling me to buy other things not in my budget, Which doesn't answer the question.

Quote:
If you only have $230 for the CPU/GPU, Mobo, AND RAM, then I would definitely wait until you come into more funds. The Pentium is just a cheap good CPU that's why I picked it.


Telling me to get more money, Which also doesn't answer the question.

So where have you even come close to answering what I've asked?
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December 11, 2012 11:38:25 PM

dsventimiglia said:
read this artical http://www.dailygadgets.net/integrated-gpu-intel-hd-400...

it looks like Trinity APUs will be on par if not better for gaming then the Intel's HD Graphics 4000 witch im more familure with. Im going to have to say yes to your ? but pls let me know how the testing goes :) 


It looks like I am going to be getting this unless my research finds something drastic in the next half hour or someone corrects my assumption about my GPU.

It would seem this IGP is better than my old discrete, especially if I get some good ram to support it. I will try my best to remember to come back and update. Thanks for the on topic answer man!
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December 11, 2012 11:52:50 PM

Epicman, i did answer your? (it looks like Trinity APUs will be on par if not better for gaming then the Intel's HD Graphics 4000 witch im more familiar with. I’m going to have to say yes to your?)
Again I’ve messed around with the Intel’s model (whicj is on par with yours) and played games like wow, eve, scyrim on low settings ext ext soooo again my specific answer to your specific ? is YES... sry if i made it confusing..
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December 12, 2012 12:01:11 AM

Epicman said:
You did? where?

Your replies are:

Quote:
Yes. Which APU are you talking about? The A10?


In response to another guy linking an article about them being better than Intel integrated graphics, which doesn't answer my question.

Quote:
Try http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6819116406 with http://www.newegg.com/Product/Prod [...] 6814131481 . Much better for gaming.


Telling me to buy other things not in my budget, Which doesn't answer the question.

Quote:
If you only have $230 for the CPU/GPU, Mobo, AND RAM, then I would definitely wait until you come into more funds. The Pentium is just a cheap good CPU that's why I picked it.


Telling me to get more money, Which also doesn't answer the question.

So where have you even come close to answering what I've asked?


I said yes (agreeing with the other post). And I asked you which APU?

I'm merely doing the things that I believe would be the best options for you.

AMD A10-5800K ($119.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Gigabyte GA FM2 Motherboard ($84.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
-$30 combo
http://www.newegg.com/Product/ComboDealDetails.aspx?Ite...
Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2x2GB) ($18.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Total = $193.97

or Intel

Intel Pentium G645 2.9GHz ($49.99)
http://www.microcenter.com/product/398114/Pentium_G645_...
ASRock H61M LGA 1155 ($44.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Powercolor 7750 ($89.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Crucial Ballistix 4GB (2x2GB) ($18.99)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
Total = $203.96

Intel will heavily outdo the A10 in the graphics department. Only if rendering will the A10 be better.
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December 12, 2012 12:59:43 AM

@TS

I have a very similar disposition as to your case. I am also looking to upgrade my build with a limited budget of ($200-250).
And, like you, have been given the recommendation to save up more money. But seeing as how your cpu is way older than mine,
and by the way you talk, seem that upgrading is imperative to you. Here is my opinion:

If you're open to other CPU/APU options aside from the A10, then I'd suggest getting this one:

AMD Phenom II x4 965 BE ($ 89.99 + $30)
http://www.amazon.com/AMD-Phenom-3-4Ghz-512KB-4000MHZ/dp/B002SRQ214/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1355279044&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=pheneom+2+x4+965

One of the best Price/Performance CPUs AMD ever released. and is still very much recommended in sub $700 - builds today.
Get it together with a $30 - $50 AM3 board. You can research a bit about this CPU, you will not be disappointed.

then spend the rest of your $100 on a GPU. (roughly $100 - 120)
You can get a decent card with that budget. Either a 7750 or a 7770 (which will cost more but is a very good card price/performance wise).

7750 ($90 - $110)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131481

Note that I'm not recommending any specific manufacturer for the 7750. This is only a reference link.

7770 ($110 - $140)
You can easily find a great variety from OC edition to Ghz edition in newegg and amazon. but I wouldn't recommend paying the premium for that.
The reference card is good enough. The 7770 is a more than capable card at a low price. and would be already a hell of an upgrade to your current
9500 GT. It's the most popular card for gamers with a limited budget here in our area so I can definitely say it's more than decent. (I'm looking to buy one myself)

I would adamantly advise you to stay away from integrated graphics (specifically for gaming), because ultimately you will still buy a Graphics Card in the end. And not all GPUs can work in crossfire with the APU. It would simply be not be a good investment. The Phenom IIx4 965 itself performs better than the A10 on benchmarks (CPU performance-wise).

I understand that with the AMD APUs compunded with faster and bigger ram can significantly improve graphics performance. However, the games that are
coming out are getting more and more GPU-intensive. It might not be long that you would need an actual graphics card to supplement your A10.

Just my 2 cents.
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December 12, 2012 1:14:09 AM

dsventimiglia said:
Epicman, i did answer your? (it looks like Trinity APUs will be on par if not better for gaming then the Intel's HD Graphics 4000 witch im more familiar with. I’m going to have to say yes to your?)
Again I’ve messed around with the Intel’s model (whicj is on par with yours) and played games like wow, eve, scyrim on low settings ext ext soooo again my specific answer to your specific ? is YES... sry if i made it confusing..


Ha, no man. I was being serious. You gave an opinion but you brought it back around to my question and answered it. :) 
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December 12, 2012 3:25:54 AM

mching said:


If you're open to other CPU/APU options aside from the A10, then I'd suggest getting this one:

AMD Phenom II x4 965 BE ($ 89.99 + $30)
http://www.amazon.com/AMD-Phenom-3-4Ghz-512KB-4000MHZ/dp/B002SRQ214/ref=sr_1_sc_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1355279044&sr=8-2-spell&keywords=pheneom+2+x4+965

One of the best Price/Performance CPUs AMD ever released. and is still very much recommended in sub $700 - builds today.
Get it together with a $30 - $50 AM3 board. You can research a bit about this CPU, you will not be disappointed.

then spend the rest of your $100 on a GPU. (roughly $100 - 120)
You can get a decent card with that budget. Either a 7750 or a 7770 (which will cost more but is a very good card price/performance wise).

7750 ($90 - $110)
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814131481



OH alright! Haha, I'm now burning my eyes out looking for the best parts combo in my budget that has a standalone GPU. However, in your recommendations you forgot to include ram, which I would still have to buy so that knocks it down some.

In my search I thought that it might be more beneficial, assuming the drop in CPU wasn't so drastic, if I were to go for a <$100 AMD APU to stay in budget and then Crossfire it with a similar discrete card. I would have to not buy as powerful of a card (which would help keep me in budget) but I am thinking that even though it is a lower end card it being crossfired with the APU will make it more powerful. Do you or anyone know if that would be better?

If the above idea is a stupid one then for your recommendation of a sturdy Phenom + decent discrete (and remember I figured the Ram into mine as well), I found this.

The same Phenom CPU you mentioned

With this board, or one like it

Using this Ram

And then really the best video card I could get. Thought my selection isn't looking to hot for that. But at least they're better than the 32 core my 9600 gt has.
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December 12, 2012 5:02:21 AM

Epicman said:
OH alright! Haha, I'm now burning my eyes out looking for the best parts combo in my budget that has a standalone GPU. However, in your recommendations you forgot to include ram, which I would still have to buy so that knocks it down some.

In my search I thought that it might be more beneficial, assuming the drop in CPU wasn't so drastic, if I were to go for a <$100 AMD APU to stay in budget and then Crossfire it with a similar discrete card. I would have to not buy as powerful of a card (which would help keep me in budget) but I am thinking that even though it is a lower end card it being crossfired with the APU will make it more powerful. Do you or anyone know if that would be better?

If the above idea is a stupid one then for your recommendation of a sturdy Phenom + decent discrete (and remember I figured the Ram into mine as well), I found this.

The same Phenom CPU you mentioned

With this board, or one like it

Using this Ram

And then really the best video card I could get. Thought my selection isn't looking to hot for that. But at least they're better than the 32 core my 9600 gt has.


I will stand firm by my recommendation of the Phenom II x4 965. You can cut cost in the board by looking for deals on AM3 boards.

As for the video card, any recent card you get will already be a huge upgrade from your 9600 GT. I really wouldn't want to cheap out on the processor

since you can always 'follow-up' the other parts later on. While on the CPU, you really can't replace it without doing a slight-complete overhaul.

For the video card, please refer to this chart:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

As a general rule (also previously advised to me here in tom's) an upgrade will only be worth it if your new graphics card is at least 2 levels higher than your previous one.

I would really love to suggest more specific parts, but can't do so since I myself don't live in the US or Canada so I wouldn't know the prices

and misc fees very well.

Like I said, AMDs APU are great. but I think they're really not for a desktop setup. (More for mobile, such as laptops or slim pcs).

Getting an integrated graphics+graphics card crossfire would no doubt, do well. But the selection of crossfire-able cards

are very limited, and would limit you to buy selected AMD cards that would support the crossfire. It wouldn't be a good idea to spend $200-$250

for a 'just now' setup. It might be good to make your pc upgrade-friendly.

Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to make out with my explanation. English isn't really my first language, so I really hope I got my point out there.
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December 12, 2012 9:29:48 AM

So immature. OP doesn't even look at my recommendations.
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December 13, 2012 12:11:30 AM

samuelspark said:
So immature. OP doesn't even look at my recommendations.


Well forgetting the fact that not replying to you does not equal not looking at them...Why should I have even looked into them? You really never answered my questions (and when you claim you did you had quoted someone else and answered them) and just told me to do things I didn't ask for or I couldn't do.

Even after telling you this all you did was tell me to get more money. So really there is no reason for me to investigate into your recommendations (though I did, just didn't reply).

You never really gave me much advice in the terms I asked for, and by the time you did I already had someone else talking to me who seemed to understand my situation right away, and then got all butt hurt and started name calling when I stop replying to you, yea..I'm the immature one.
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December 13, 2012 12:15:15 AM

mching said:
I will stand firm by my recommendation of the Phenom II x4 965. You can cut cost in the board by looking for deals on AM3 boards.

As for the video card, any recent card you get will already be a huge upgrade from your 9600 GT. I really wouldn't want to cheap out on the processor

since you can always 'follow-up' the other parts later on. While on the CPU, you really can't replace it without doing a slight-complete overhaul.

For the video card, please refer to this chart:

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-card-review,3107-7.html

As a general rule (also previously advised to me here in tom's) an upgrade will only be worth it if your new graphics card is at least 2 levels higher than your previous one.

I would really love to suggest more specific parts, but can't do so since I myself don't live in the US or Canada so I wouldn't know the prices

and misc fees very well.

Like I said, AMDs APU are great. but I think they're really not for a desktop setup. (More for mobile, such as laptops or slim pcs).

Getting an integrated graphics+graphics card crossfire would no doubt, do well. But the selection of crossfire-able cards

are very limited, and would limit you to buy selected AMD cards that would support the crossfire. It wouldn't be a good idea to spend $200-$250

for a 'just now' setup. It might be good to make your pc upgrade-friendly.

Hopefully you understand what I'm trying to make out with my explanation. English isn't really my first language, so I really hope I got my point out there.



Hm, yes. I think I will go with that Phenom II, just a shame this year was the last year they're making them, but they're continuing to make the lesser Athlons.

I am going to try to squeeze the best graphics card I can into my budget after getting an AM3/AM3+ Mobo and suitable RAM...which even a pretty low end card will be 2x better than the current one. So we shall see how it goes, once I get it ordered and in I will try my best to remember to come make an update as to how it worked out, if anyone cares. :bounce: 
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December 13, 2012 12:27:08 AM

Epicman said:
Well forgetting the fact that not replying to you does not equal not looking at them...Why should I have even looked into them? You really never answered my questions (and when you claim you did you had quoted someone else and answered them) and just told me to do things I didn't ask for or I couldn't do.

Even after telling you this all you did was tell me to get more money. So really there is no reason for me to investigate into your recommendations (though I did, just didn't reply).

You never really gave me much advice in the terms I asked for, and by the time you did I already had someone else talking to me who seemed to understand my situation right away, and then got all butt hurt and started name calling when I stop replying to you, yea..I'm the immature one.


As I said, I was agreeing with the other poster. I also asked with APU as they have different integrated graphics. Getting more money was just one of my suggestions.
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