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Poor performance from A10 5800k

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December 12, 2012 8:40:06 PM

I recently upgraded my computer for the first time in 5 years. It's incredibly budget driven, as I have a newborn at home.

New System
Processor: AMD A10 5800k
Mobo: ASRock FM2A75M-DGS
Memory: Gskill 8gb PC1600
Graphics: Onboard Radeon HD 7600D (Set to 2gb)

Old System
AMD Athlon X2 6000 (3 ghz dual core)
Mobo: Dell crap
Memory: 3gb
Graphics: nVidia GeForce 8600GT 128mb


After getting everything put together and installing Windows 7 64 bit, my graphic performance seems to be worse than my old system. I play EVE Online, and with only one client logged in, I am only getting 25-28 fps at the lowest video settings and my old system produced 30-35 with the same settings.

I know the onboard video isn't ideal for gaming, but I assumed it would be better than a 5 year old graphics card, so I have to assume there is a setting somewhere that I've missed. I've spent the past couple days searching the internet for anyone with similar problems, but everyone seems to be raving about the A10, so I'm at a loss. Any help would be appreciated.

More about : poor performance a10 5800k

a b B Homebuilt system
December 12, 2012 8:55:27 PM

You should be getting about double the performance with the APU, especially if using DX11. Do you have the latest drivers? Have you tried any other games?

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December 12, 2012 10:29:20 PM

My old card didn't support DX11, and google searches on enabling it in EVE were fruitless. So I'm not 100% sure if it's actually using DX11.

I downloaded the latest catalyst drivers from AMD (9.10.8.0 December 12, 2012)

EVE is the only game I played previously, so installing anything else and testing it wouldn't give me a good reference point.

I'm currently downloading 3DMark 11 to see what it tells me.
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December 12, 2012 11:05:30 PM

Score
P959
Graphics Score
881
Physics Score
3407
Combined Score
683

It also says: "Graphics driver is not approved"

I downloaded AMD's Driver Auto Detect tool and it says I have the latest driver.

Edit: Reverted back to the non beta drivers (Version 12.10) and now 3DMark 11 is showing drivers as approved, but it did nothing to resolve the poor graphics performance.
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December 16, 2012 2:45:58 PM

Have you run the windows experience index yet? I bet you get a 4.4 for windows aero graphics performance. Download GPU-Z and see if it says that you are at 100 mhz for memory and only showing a 64 bit bus instead of a 128 bit bus and that your video bandwidth is at 1.6 gb/s.

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December 16, 2012 2:53:16 PM

I'm in the process of doing an rma on an A10-5800K. I was getting really bad graphics scores on various benchmarks and believe that one of the two gpu 64 bit buses was not working properly. So I pretty much had half of a 7600D.

I found this link interesting:

http://www.pcper.com/news/Processors/AMD-Binning-Trinit...


It mentions that AMD is selling the Trinity line of APU processors as CPU only when the gpu portion is not working. I think they are letting some bad 7600Ds go through.
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December 16, 2012 8:48:25 PM

Charlemagne99 said:
Have you run the windows experience index yet? I bet you get a 4.4 for windows aero graphics performance. Download GPU-Z and see if it says that you are at 100 mhz for memory and only showing a 64 bit bus instead of a 128 bit bus and that your video bandwidth is at 1.6 gb/s.


You're correct on all accounts, well, almost. I managed a 4.8 for the Windows Aero Graphic Performance. But the memory, bus and video bandwith are all correct. I'd assume this means there is something wrong with the GPU and to contact Newegg about a replacement?
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December 16, 2012 8:56:52 PM

konferge said:
You're correct on all accounts, well, almost. I managed a 4.8 for the Windows Aero Graphic Performance. But the memory, bus and video bandwith are all correct. I'd assume this means there is something wrong with the GPU and to contact Newegg about a replacement?


You probably got a 4.8 because your ram is faster than the 1333 I was using. Either way everyone else is getting wei scores of 6.6-6.9 for the aero graphics subscore. I think we both have a bus defect for the gpu component. I hope I don't get any crap from Newegg on this. I've never done an rma before for a cpu but it's definitely defective. Also I can't imagine the problem is the motherboard since the cpu shares the memory with the gpu and my cpu scores were fine on benchmarks.

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December 16, 2012 9:56:59 PM

Well, something weird has happened. I was playing with the ram memory clock, and accidentally set it too high. System wouldn't POST. So I shorted the CMOS clear jumper and re-did all my bios settings. Once it booted back up, GPU-Z is showing the correct information.

Bus Width: 128 Bit
Bandwidth 29.9 GB/s
Memory: 933 Mhz

Current settings:
Memory clocked to 1866 mhz
Processor clocked to 4 Ghz
GPU clocked to 950 mhz

Currently getting 40-65 fps in EVE Online. Going to try running 3DMark 11 and the Windows Experience to see any changes.
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December 16, 2012 10:13:55 PM

Windows Experience errored out.

3DMark 11 increased a bit, but not as much as I was expecting.

http://www.3dmark.com/3dm11/5250866

Score
P1077
Graphics Score
984
Physics Score
3782
Combined Score
794
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a b B Homebuilt system
December 16, 2012 10:15:41 PM

I wonder if you somehow had a single bad memory setting before. Either way, cool it is working.

err, maybe I spoke too soon now that you posted 3Dmark.

I'd probably look at RMA.
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a b B Homebuilt system
December 16, 2012 10:19:51 PM

Although, have you run a memory test?
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December 16, 2012 10:39:42 PM

For me, memtest and windows memory tests showed no errors. Also, after a reboot my gpu-z readings were normal. Then if I ran a test using the gpu like wei or 3dmark the readings would change to show it was back at 64 bit not 128 bit on the bus with respective drops again in the bandwidth.
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December 16, 2012 11:27:01 PM

Emergency Op called in EVE, so I'll be on this for a bit. 3DMark test didn't affect the readings from GPU-Z for me. I contacted Newegg, they said I have to contact AMD as my wife tossed the original packaging. :( 

I haven't done a memory test yet, will give that a shot when I can and report back.
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December 16, 2012 11:35:11 PM

konferge said:
Emergency Op called in EVE, so I'll be on this for a bit. 3DMark test didn't affect the readings from GPU-Z for me. I contacted Newegg, they said I have to contact AMD as my wife tossed the original packaging. :( 

I haven't done a memory test yet, will give that a shot when I can and report back.



Have you closed then reopened GPU-Z? It took that to see the changed settings after a benchmark.
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December 17, 2012 12:06:29 AM

Yes, closing GPU-Z and re-opening still shows the correct values.
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December 18, 2012 11:00:04 PM

Got an email from ASRock today. Their tech support department said that GPU-Z will display the correct values. So it's definitely a problem.
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December 18, 2012 11:09:51 PM

konferge said:
Got an email from ASRock today. Their tech support department said that GPU-Z will display the correct values. So it's definitely a problem.



My replacement A10-5800K should be here soon. I suspect that getting the new processor will resolve this issue. I'll update when I have installed it. Probably Thursday.
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December 19, 2012 12:44:57 AM

I am hoping to avoid replacing the processor, as it would take my computer down for who knows how long. I would guess AMD turn around isn't all that fast. Waiting on AMD's tech support to get back to me.
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a b B Homebuilt system
December 19, 2012 9:14:50 AM

*Compare to the benchmark values here:
http://hexus.net/tech/reviews/cpu/46157-amd-a10-5800k-d...

Although I'm not sure what SETTINGS they're using.

Seriously though, I doubt you have an actual problem. My advice:

1. VSYNCH to 30FPS
(can use RadeonPro's Half VSYNC method if AMD has no support yet in official Catalyst Control Panel).

2. TWEAK your in-game settings. There are LOTS of settings to choose here. Heck, I can max out my GTX680/i7-3770K system if I want for EVE. (Not sure if DX11 will help you at all. I'm no longer playing EVE but I heard it's coming soon but not out yet?)

(disable VSYNC while tweaking. Note that your station 3rd person frame rate will likely be LOWER than when in space so tweak accordingly.)

This is a game that runs fine at 30FPS, but you really want to VSYNC to prevent screen tearing.

RADEONPRO:
This is a handy tool, especially for low-end systems like yours as you can synch many games to 30FPS (again to prevent screen tearing). To do so:
1) drag the game EXE into RadeonPro
2) enable the Half Vsync method (forget what it's called)
3) monitor the game with FRAPS
4) DISABLE VSYNC while tweaking and aim for roughly 35FPS average, then re-enable

I used RadeonPro to also:
a) FORCE VSYNC when not supported (normal, half, or sometimes 50FPS instead of 60FPS)
b) force anti-aliasing when not supported

Example:
Witcher #1 has no VSYNC support. The main EXE file is in a subfolder in the install directory. If YOU had that game you'd want to synch to 30FPS using the above method.

Mass Effect 1:
Had no anti-aliasing support. I forced this on (for good graphics cards you can use super-sampling).

CHEERS
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December 19, 2012 10:31:13 PM

Happily I just got my replacement A10-5800K about an hour ago. I have installed it and put the cpu cooler back on and booted. I ran windows experience index.

Previously I got a 4.4 for graphics (aero) and a gaming graphics of 6.3.

I am now at 6.7 for both. And that was running the memory at 1600. It will go to 1866 and I'm about to adjust the bios.

I think there was an On Die problem with my A10 that dropped out one of the two 64 bit buses and thus dropped performance by half.

My 3dMark06 (not 2011) was 3927 with the old cpu.

Now it is 9195. That's a massive improvement.

I think you have the same issue as I did. Good luck fixing it. I really think you need a new cpu.
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a b B Homebuilt system
December 20, 2012 12:04:40 AM

Charlemagne99 said:
Happily I just got my replacement A10-5800K about an hour ago. I have installed it and put the cpu cooler back on and booted. I ran windows experience index.

Previously I got a 4.4 for graphics (aero) and a gaming graphics of 6.3.

I am now at 6.7 for both. And that was running the memory at 1600. It will go to 1866 and I'm about to adjust the bios.

I think there was an On Die problem with my A10 that dropped out one of the two 64 bit buses and thus dropped performance by half.

My 3dMark06 (not 2011) was 3927 with the old cpu.

Now it is 9195. That's a massive improvement.

I think you have the same issue as I did. Good luck fixing it. I really think you need a new cpu.


Good.
FYI, you may wish to PRINT my advice on how to use RadeonPro. It's a very handy program but there's a small learning curve.

For future reference, the A10-5800K is called an "APU":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion

An AMD APU fuses (hence "fusion") the CPU and GPU as a single functional unit for increased efficiency however you can't disable the GPU. Many Intel CPU's now have a GPU on the same chip, however this GPU is functionally separate and can be disabled.

The advantage of an APU is price. The disadvantage is the inability to disable the GPU and use an addon card. The only way to do that is to CROSSFIRE in some cases with a compatible graphics card. Thus an APU + addon card is functional equivalent to a CPU + 2xCrossfire setup (one CPU plus two graphics cards in Crossfire).

Just FYI.
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December 20, 2012 12:44:33 AM

photonboy said:
Good.
FYI, you may wish to PRINT my advice on how to use RadeonPro. It's a very handy program but there's a small learning curve.

For future reference, the A10-5800K is called an "APU":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMD_Fusion

An AMD APU fuses (hence "fusion") the CPU and GPU as a single functional unit for increased efficiency however you can't disable the GPU. Many Intel CPU's now have a GPU on the same chip, however this GPU is functionally separate and can be disabled.

The advantage of an APU is price. The disadvantage is the inability to disable the GPU and use an addon card. The only way to do that is to CROSSFIRE in some cases with a compatible graphics card. Thus an APU + addon card is functional equivalent to a CPU + 2xCrossfire setup (one CPU plus two graphics cards in Crossfire).

Just FYI.


Read my second post in this thread.
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a b B Homebuilt system
December 20, 2012 1:01:44 AM

photonboy said:
Good.


An AMD APU fuses (hence "fusion") the CPU and GPU as a single functional unit for increased efficiency however you can't disable the GPU. Many Intel CPU's now have a GPU on the same chip, however this GPU is functionally separate and can be disabled.

The advantage of an APU is price. The disadvantage is the inability to disable the GPU and use an addon card. The only way to do that is to CROSSFIRE in some cases with a compatible graphics card. Thus an APU + addon card is functional equivalent to a CPU + 2xCrossfire setup (one CPU plus two graphics cards in Crossfire).

Just FYI.


100% false.

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a b B Homebuilt system
December 21, 2012 8:48:14 PM

twelve25 said:
100% false.


Hmm..
When I first read about APU's you couldn't disable the GPU. After your comment I looked into it more and it appears that on some you can and some you can't. I'm not sure if this is now because some are fused at the hardware level or if it's simply the BIOS not offering it.

Initially the CPU and GPU were supposed to be fused as a single functional unit.

So it appears my information is wrong.

Can you verify that the GPU can be disabled in the BIOS for the A10-5800K in lieu of an addon graphics card?

FYI, I'm not "100% false" though. The APU plus ad addon card in Crossfire part is correct. This pairs a similar graphics card to the GPU in the APU which is basically identical to the CPU part + 2xCrossfire:
http://www.amd.com/us/products/technologies/dual-graphi...
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a b B Homebuilt system
December 21, 2012 9:06:06 PM

Okay.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2010666/amd-announces-tr...

says:
"When adding a high-end graphics card, the internal graphics core is disabled."

So it appears there are TWO ways to get better graphics:

#1. add a second graphics card nearly IDENTICAL to the APU's GPU (2xcrossfire basically)

#2. add a BETTER graphics card, which apparently disables the onboard GPU (I guess automatically).

Anyway, I don't want to hog this thread too much and thanks for pointing out my mistake that the GPU can't be disabled on some APU's.
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January 6, 2013 2:37:42 PM

Just thought I'd share my experience in case someone else comes across this thread, as it really helped me out.

A10-5800k
Biostar Hi-Fi A85W MB
8GB Patriot Viper 3 DDR3 1600

I had pretty much the same problems as Charlemagne99 and konferge with the A10-5800k.

When I first put the system together and installed Windows 7...drivers...e.t.c., I ran the WEI, and was shocked by such low graphics scores.

WEI 3D scores Aero: 4.7 and Gaming: 6.4

3DMark 06: 4706

Also this "quad core processor" seemed awfully slow, and down right sluggish.
My old laptop with a Core2Duo 2.0Ghz seemed much snappier than the A10.

I also had the system lock up on me a couple of times, and had to hard reset.

I installed Arma 2 OA, and ran the benchmark 01. The A10 with its 7660d scored an average of 39fps. This seemed kind of low to me, but being my first APU build, I assumed it was an acceptable score.

I was starting to think that all the hype about these new Trinity APU's was just made up.

Then I came across this post, and fired up GPUZ...and sure enough the bus width was 64bit, and memory speed at 100mhz.

Thinking I received a bummed A10 too, I jumped the gun, and filled out an RMA on the Eggs site:) 

After re-reading this thread, the part where konferge talked about messing with his memory timings in the bios caught my eye. Memtest passed with flying colors. I ran CPU-Z to check if my timings were right...and they looked fine. But I noticed that my memory, (2 sticks) was only running in Single channel mode. I popped the case apart, and tried the memory in different slots and sure enough Dual channel.

The manual that came with my motherboard was poorly documented...especially the memory diagram.
The whole time I had one stick in the wrong slot, which was somehow messing up the performance of the A10, both CPU and IGP side.

With this thing running properly, I am finally impressed with the performance.

Scores with memory running correctly in Dual channel:

WEI Aero: 6.8
WEI 3D Graphics: 6.8
3DMark 06: 8752
Arma 2 OA: 55 avg fps
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Best solution

January 6, 2013 8:56:12 PM

hawk52501 said:
Just thought I'd share my experience in case someone else comes across this thread, as it really helped me out.

A10-5800k
Biostar Hi-Fi A85W MB
8GB Patriot Viper 3 DDR3 1600

I had pretty much the same problems as Charlemagne99 and konferge with the A10-5800k.

When I first put the system together and installed Windows 7...drivers...e.t.c., I ran the WEI, and was shocked by such low graphics scores.

WEI 3D scores Aero: 4.7 and Gaming: 6.4

3DMark 06: 4706

Also this "quad core processor" seemed awfully slow, and down right sluggish.
My old laptop with a Core2Duo 2.0Ghz seemed much snappier than the A10.

I also had the system lock up on me a couple of times, and had to hard reset.

I installed Arma 2 OA, and ran the benchmark 01. The A10 with its 7660d scored an average of 39fps. This seemed kind of low to me, but being my first APU build, I assumed it was an acceptable score.

I was starting to think that all the hype about these new Trinity APU's was just made up.

Then I came across this post, and fired up GPUZ...and sure enough the bus width was 64bit, and memory speed at 100mhz.

Thinking I received a bummed A10 too, I jumped the gun, and filled out an RMA on the Eggs site:) 

After re-reading this thread, the part where konferge talked about messing with his memory timings in the bios caught my eye. Memtest passed with flying colors. I ran CPU-Z to check if my timings were right...and they looked fine. But I noticed that my memory, (2 sticks) was only running in Single channel mode. I popped the case apart, and tried the memory in different slots and sure enough Dual channel.

The manual that came with my motherboard was poorly documented...especially the memory diagram.
The whole time I had one stick in the wrong slot, which was somehow messing up the performance of the A10, both CPU and IGP side.

With this thing running properly, I am finally impressed with the performance.

Scores with memory running correctly in Dual channel:

WEI Aero: 6.8
WEI 3D Graphics: 6.8
3DMark 06: 8752
Arma 2 OA: 55 avg fps



Thanks for posting. I think you are definitely correct here. When I originally had my issues with the A10-5800K I was only using one DIMM of 8gb. At the same time I did an rma for the APU I also got new memory with a dual channel kit with 4gb X 2 at 1866 mhz. The first DIMM was 1333 and I had read that is was advisable to get faster memory. This does appear to be the issue. With the GPU component of the APU really dependent on memory bandwidth for performance it really needs two DIMMS in dual channels to get the best performance. Great pick up.
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January 13, 2013 4:27:52 AM

Well maybe that is the problem, as I am running a single DDR3 memory stick as well. I haven't RMA'd my processor yet as I haven't been able to take my computer down. So I'll order another stick of memory and see if that fixes it before RMA'ing it.
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January 19, 2013 4:01:52 AM

konferge said:
Well maybe that is the problem, as I am running a single DDR3 memory stick as well. I haven't RMA'd my processor yet as I haven't been able to take my computer down. So I'll order another stick of memory and see if that fixes it before RMA'ing it.


I wouldn't be surprised if another stick does the trick. Let us know what happens...and good luck Ken. :) 
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January 19, 2013 1:19:58 PM

Memory was ordered earlier this week, was hoping it'd get here before the weekend but seems to be somewhere between Georgia and Florida.
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January 22, 2013 9:36:43 PM

Yup, adding another stick of memory seems to have fixed it. 3DMark scores are on par with other benchmarks, EVE online hits 40-45 fps at max settings, and the WEI for graphics jumped from 4.8 to 6.1
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a c 136 B Homebuilt system
January 22, 2013 11:16:51 PM

The OP says he has 8 gig of memory but how is it configured?

Is it a singe 8 gig stick in one slot? That will kill graphics performance on an APU . You need two sticks , set in the right slots so you get dual channel

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January 22, 2013 11:43:25 PM

Yup, as I just said, adding a 2nd stick of memory fixed it.
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January 23, 2013 2:16:23 AM

Glad to hear all is good, konferge!

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February 4, 2013 8:36:11 PM

Best answer selected by konferge.
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