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Brit mag letter re: Nikon D70

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Anonymous
May 13, 2005 5:30:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry
I don't remember which one (they all begin to look
the same) but a D70 owner said they were experiencing
image motion (blur) when using the D70 on a tripod
when the shutter speed was between 1/10 and 1/30 of
a second. They attributed this to motion generated
by the mirror. I remember some time ago they tested
SLRs and found that some did have enough "clunk" when
the shutter was tripped that there was motion detected
in images taken when the camera was on a lighter weight
tripod. When they put the camera on a really solid tripod,
(massive) the effect went away. The problem was most
noticeable with cameras like the Pentax K-1000 that
had considerable slap and least with cameras like the Olympus
OM-1 that had relatively soft mirror slap impact. Is it possible that
a lightweight tripod could allow this so it would be
noticeable in an image? Have their been any tests amongst
DSLRs with regard to what kind of impact tripping the
shutter generates?
-Rich
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 5:30:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:4ho9819kn3emt5ht33p9taj4b9gqjstukq@4ax.com...
> This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry
> I don't remember which one (they all begin to look
> the same) but a D70 owner said they were experiencing
> image motion (blur) when using the D70 on a tripod
> when the shutter speed was between 1/10 and 1/30 of
> a second. They attributed this to motion generated
> by the mirror.

I thought that was what mirror lockup was for?

Greg
Anonymous
May 13, 2005 11:44:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

RichA <none@none.com> wrote:

> This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry
> I don't remember which one (they all begin to look
> the same) but a D70 owner said they were experiencing
> image motion (blur) when using the D70 on a tripod
> when the shutter speed was between 1/10 and 1/30 of
> a second. They attributed this to motion generated
> by the mirror. I remember some time ago they tested
> SLRs and found that some did have enough "clunk" when
> the shutter was tripped that there was motion detected
> in images taken when the camera was on a lighter weight
> tripod. When they put the camera on a really solid tripod,
> (massive) the effect went away. The problem was most
> noticeable with cameras like the Pentax K-1000 that
> had considerable slap and least with cameras like the Olympus
> OM-1 that had relatively soft mirror slap impact. Is it possible that
> a lightweight tripod could allow this so it would be
> noticeable in an image? Have their been any tests amongst
> DSLRs with regard to what kind of impact tripping the
> shutter generates?
> -Rich
>

I've tested the D70 and it's certainly true. 300mm on a tripod of
intermediate solidity resulted in unusable images between 1/2s and 1/30s.
I need to run the tests again with my Tilt-All and my Slik-U212/Manfrotto
hybrid to see if there's much improvement.
Related resources
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 12:00:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

RichA <none@none.com> wrote:

> Is it possible that a lightweight tripod could allow this so
> it would be noticeable in an image?

Yes. That's why some complain that the D70 lacks a mirror-lock mode.

> Have their been any tests amongst DSLRs with regard to what
> kind of impact tripping the shutter generates?

Not that I've seen.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 12:12:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <118a0hu6bpr347d@corp.supernews.com>,
G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>news:4ho9819kn3emt5ht33p9taj4b9gqjstukq@4ax.com...
>> This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry
>> I don't remember which one (they all begin to look
>> the same) but a D70 owner said they were experiencing
>> image motion (blur) when using the D70 on a tripod
>> when the shutter speed was between 1/10 and 1/30 of
>> a second. They attributed this to motion generated
>> by the mirror.
>
>I thought that was what mirror lockup was for?

Not in the D70. Its sole purpose is to allow access to the
focal plane for sensor cleaning.

And the only way to *end* it is to turn off the camera.

Nikon recommends that it only be done with an AC-operated power
supply, which suggests that they expect the power drain to be rather
high, compared to normal use. (Though for a short time, with a freshly
charged battery pack, I suspect that there would be no problem.)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 12:12:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news:D 63fon$2t0$1@Fuego.d-and-d.com...
> In article <118a0hu6bpr347d@corp.supernews.com>,
> G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
> >
> >"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
> >news:4ho9819kn3emt5ht33p9taj4b9gqjstukq@4ax.com...
> >> This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry
> >> I don't remember which one (they all begin to look
> >> the same) but a D70 owner said they were experiencing
> >> image motion (blur) when using the D70 on a tripod
> >> when the shutter speed was between 1/10 and 1/30 of
> >> a second. They attributed this to motion generated
> >> by the mirror.
> >
> >I thought that was what mirror lockup was for?
>
> Not in the D70. Its sole purpose is to allow access to the
> focal plane for sensor cleaning.
>

I didn't realize that but was addressing mirror lockup in general. The way
RichA wrote his original typically sensationalist message he made it sound
like nobody has ever considered camera shake as a result of mirror slap.

Greg
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 1:16:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Jeremy Nixon wrote:
> RichA <none@none.com> wrote:
>
>
>>Is it possible that a lightweight tripod could allow this so
>>it would be noticeable in an image?
>
>
> Yes. That's why some complain that the D70 lacks a mirror-lock mode.

Time to get a better tripod.


--

J

www.urbanvoyeur.com
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 1:16:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

For shutter speeds that slow, I suppliment my sturdy tripod with a small
lead shot bag (some grip and lighting places sell small bags and sometimes
you can find them atscuba shops in the form of dry-suit ankle weights) even
on my substantial medium format SLR. It makes a big difference!

D.


"UrbanVoyeur" <nospam@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:42851916.1030203@nospam.net...
> Jeremy Nixon wrote:
>> RichA <none@none.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Is it possible that a lightweight tripod could allow this so
>>>it would be noticeable in an image?
>>
>>
>> Yes. That's why some complain that the D70 lacks a mirror-lock mode.
>
> Time to get a better tripod.
>
>
> --
>
> J
>
> www.urbanvoyeur.com
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 2:08:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Bubbabob wrote:
> RichA <none@none.com> wrote:
>
>
>>This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry
>>I don't remember which one (they all begin to look
>>the same) but a D70 owner said they were experiencing
>>image motion (blur) when using the D70 on a tripod
>>when the shutter speed was between 1/10 and 1/30 of
>>a second. They attributed this to motion generated
>>by the mirror. I remember some time ago they tested
>>SLRs and found that some did have enough "clunk" when
>>the shutter was tripped that there was motion detected
>>in images taken when the camera was on a lighter weight
>>tripod. When they put the camera on a really solid tripod,
>>(massive) the effect went away. The problem was most
>>noticeable with cameras like the Pentax K-1000 that
>>had considerable slap and least with cameras like the Olympus
>>OM-1 that had relatively soft mirror slap impact. Is it possible that
>>a lightweight tripod could allow this so it would be
>>noticeable in an image? Have their been any tests amongst
>>DSLRs with regard to what kind of impact tripping the
>>shutter generates?
>>-Rich
>>
>
>
> I've tested the D70 and it's certainly true. 300mm on a tripod of
> intermediate solidity resulted in unusable images between 1/2s and 1/30s.
> I need to run the tests again with my Tilt-All and my Slik-U212/Manfrotto
> hybrid to see if there's much improvement.

Did you experience the same problems at longer exposures? I've had
little problem with the 70-200 VR lens on a super-lightweight Velbon
tripod, at anywhere from 2 to 20 seconds. I use timer mode but don't
weight the tripod.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 2:52:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <118aht1acg23bd6@corp.supernews.com>,
G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>
>"DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
>news:D 63fon$2t0$1@Fuego.d-and-d.com...
>> In article <118a0hu6bpr347d@corp.supernews.com>,
>> G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>> >
>> >"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>> >news:4ho9819kn3emt5ht33p9taj4b9gqjstukq@4ax.com...
>> >> This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry

[ ... ]

>> >I thought that was what mirror lockup was for?
>>
>> Not in the D70. Its sole purpose is to allow access to the
>> focal plane for sensor cleaning.
>>
>
>I didn't realize that but was addressing mirror lockup in general. The way
>RichA wrote his original typically sensationalist message he made it sound
>like nobody has ever considered camera shake as a result of mirror slap.

That is why he is in my killfile. (I still see the debates
which he stirs up, but not his original articles.)

I guess that I could start filtering on his username appearing
anywhere in the article, but then I might miss something useful. :-) It
may yet come to that.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 3:56:43 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 13 May 2005 22:52:54 -0400, dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols)
wrote:

>In article <118aht1acg23bd6@corp.supernews.com>,
>G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>
>>"DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
>>news:D 63fon$2t0$1@Fuego.d-and-d.com...
>>> In article <118a0hu6bpr347d@corp.supernews.com>,
>>> G.T. <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote:
>>> >
>>> >"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
>>> >news:4ho9819kn3emt5ht33p9taj4b9gqjstukq@4ax.com...
>>> >> This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry
>
> [ ... ]
>
>>> >I thought that was what mirror lockup was for?
>>>
>>> Not in the D70. Its sole purpose is to allow access to the
>>> focal plane for sensor cleaning.
>>>
>>
>>I didn't realize that but was addressing mirror lockup in general. The way
>>RichA wrote his original typically sensationalist message he made it sound
>>like nobody has ever considered camera shake as a result of mirror slap.
>
> That is why he is in my killfile. (I still see the debates
>which he stirs up, but not his original articles.)
>
> I guess that I could start filtering on his username appearing
>anywhere in the article, but then I might miss something useful. :-) It
>may yet come to that.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.

Moron.....Just testing.
May 14, 2005 1:50:27 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Bubbabob wrote:
> RichA <none@none.com> wrote:
>
>
>>This was in one of the British mags, I'm sorry
>>I don't remember which one (they all begin to look
>>the same) but a D70 owner said they were experiencing
>>image motion (blur) when using the D70 on a tripod
>>when the shutter speed was between 1/10 and 1/30 of
>>a second. They attributed this to motion generated
>>by the mirror. I remember some time ago they tested
>>SLRs and found that some did have enough "clunk" when
>>the shutter was tripped that there was motion detected
>>in images taken when the camera was on a lighter weight
>>tripod. When they put the camera on a really solid tripod,
>>(massive) the effect went away. The problem was most
>>noticeable with cameras like the Pentax K-1000 that
>>had considerable slap and least with cameras like the Olympus
>>OM-1 that had relatively soft mirror slap impact. Is it possible that
>>a lightweight tripod could allow this so it would be
>>noticeable in an image? Have their been any tests amongst
>>DSLRs with regard to what kind of impact tripping the
>>shutter generates?
>>-Rich
>>
>
>
> I've tested the D70 and it's certainly true. 300mm on a tripod of
> intermediate solidity resulted in unusable images between 1/2s and 1/30s.
> I need to run the tests again with my Tilt-All and my Slik-U212/Manfrotto
> hybrid to see if there's much improvement.

Nikon got so much right with the D70 - but I find it staggering that the
D70s has a larger LCD, they responded to the whines about the D70 not
having a cable release socket (depite it having a remote which is
cheaper than most electronic release cables anyway), they improved a
battery that didn't need improving - but they didn't add a mirror
lock-up function.

I'm guessing that if your 300mm lens has a tripod collar, then you won't
have a problem with a good tripod. On the other hand, even if you do
have a great tripod, I'm guessing it still won't be good enough to
counter mirror slap if you mount the camera body to the tripod.

Can anyone direct me to a maker of aftermarket tripod collars? I need one.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 10:03:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Cynicor <j..tru.p.i.n...@speakeasy.net> wrote:

> Did you experience the same problems at longer exposures? I've had
> little problem with the 70-200 VR lens on a super-lightweight Velbon
> tripod, at anywhere from 2 to 20 seconds. I use timer mode but don't
> weight the tripod.
>

The problem lessens as the exposure length increases since the percentage
of the exposure time affected by the vibration decreases. It's not
noticeable beyond 1/2s and sometimes 1/4s.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 10:05:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Douglas Tourtelot" <tourtelot@nospanspeakeasy.net> wrote:

> For shutter speeds that slow, I suppliment my sturdy tripod with a
> small lead shot bag (some grip and lighting places sell small bags and
> sometimes you can find them atscuba shops in the form of dry-suit
> ankle weights) even on my substantial medium format SLR. It makes a
> big difference!
>
> D.
>
I did my tests with a <$90 Vivitar tripod but I did have 5 lbs of camera
bag hanging off the bottom of the shaft.
Anonymous
May 14, 2005 10:08:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Frederick <nomailplease@nomail.com> wrote:


>
> I'm guessing that if your 300mm lens has a tripod collar, then you
> won't have a problem with a good tripod. On the other hand, even if
> you do have a great tripod, I'm guessing it still won't be good enough
> to counter mirror slap if you mount the camera body to the tripod.
>
Unfortunately, it's the 70-300 'G' Nikon zoom. No collar.
!