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Anonymous
May 19, 2005 12:42:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried to shoot the
sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming at several portions of
the sunset, take some test shots, and then shift to manual mode so I can
fine tune the exposure, again using the LCD.

With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.

I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.

There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that worked
perfectly every time.

Any ideas to shorten this procedure?

Sheldon

More about : question

Anonymous
May 19, 2005 12:42:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <FNmdnbxXn7lzYRbfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>, Sheldon
<sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:

> With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
> looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.

Sloppy technique.

> I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
> was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.

The preview is through that little rectangular hole and...it looks
right through the lens that takes the picture.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:01:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
news:FNmdnbxXn7lzYRbfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
> exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried to shoot the
> sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming at several portions
of
> the sunset, take some test shots, and then shift to manual mode so I can
> fine tune the exposure, again using the LCD.
>
> With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
> looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.
>
> I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
> was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.
>
> There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that worked
> perfectly every time.
>
> Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>

I guess you never used a film SLR?

Greg
Related resources
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:52:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Randall Ainsworth" <rag@nospam.techline.com> wrote in message
news:180520052028123354%rag@nospam.techline.com...
> In article <FNmdnbxXn7lzYRbfRVn-iQ@comcast.com>, Sheldon
> <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
>
>> With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
>> looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.
>
> Sloppy technique.

Not really. Again, we're talking sunsets. By moving the meter from area to
area I can lock in the best compromise for a good, colorful shot -- and
pretty much get exactly what I'm seeing.

>
>> I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
>> was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.
>
> The preview is through that little rectangular hole and...it looks
> right through the lens that takes the picture.

I hear ya. Problem is what you see ain't what you get with a DSLR --
exposure wise anyway. I can set the aperture and shutter speed to anything
I want, and the image will stay exactly the same in the viewfinder.
May 19, 2005 4:27:47 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Sheldon wrote:

> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
> exposure.

Get an incedence light meter if you're having this much of a problem. I'm
not crazy about any reflective meters unless you have no choice but to use
them, i.e. you can't meter light that equals the light on the subject
matter.

--

Stacey
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 4:27:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Stacey" <fotocord@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3f2iu3F5mc41U1@individual.net...
> Sheldon wrote:
>
>> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
>> exposure.
>
> Get an incedence light meter if you're having this much of a problem. I'm
> not crazy about any reflective meters unless you have no choice but to use
> them, i.e. you can't meter light that equals the light on the subject
> matter.
> --
>
> Stacey

I actually have several light meters and do use them. The problem I'm
having is with things like sunsets, where you're not sure what to meter on
to get the best image.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 4:29:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> writes:
> With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
> looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.

Yeah, you can't beat this WYSIWYG feature of composing a shot this
tricky with a display.

> There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that worked
> perfectly every time.
>
> Any ideas to shorten this procedure?

Use the Sony. Or try autobracketing and hope for the best.
Unfortunately without a mode ot compose with the viewfinder, it's
gonna be tough.

Shooting from table level inconspicuously while dining with friends or
shooting to your right or left is also a bitch with a DSLR but a
breeze with a swivel LCD. This is why I haven't gotten rid of my
Canon G2 despite owning the 300D.

There's room in the worl for both kinds. 8-) dSLR's simply aren't
superior in all regards.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
May 19, 2005 6:54:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Sheldon wrote:


>
> I actually have several light meters and do use them. The problem I'm
> having is with things like sunsets, where you're not sure what to meter on
> to get the best image.

Then shoot RAW unless the camera you use doesn't have enough dynamic range
to even be safe doing this?
--

Stacey
May 19, 2005 11:32:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Spot metering is probably not the best method for sunsets.
If you're looking for the silhouette, averaging would be much more
useful.
Try auto bracketing as well. I trust it's configurable for various
exposure offsets.

Remember: Film is cheap. Especially when you're not using any.

Collin
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 12:36:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:
> Sheldon wrote:
>
>> Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>
> I can't take this anymore. So here it is.
>

See how much help a 'recipe' can be? Thank you.

On the other hand, you might get lucky with just one or two tries, as
I did with this Minolta Dimage Xt shot of some sky effects in the wake
of the 'Cedar' fire, October, 2003. "Spot Metered" on the hottest part
of the scene. The caption is:

2003 November San Diego

View One through a water-spotted fifth-floor window.
Very light Levels and Curves
Lab Color USM = 50%, 1.3, 4
Reduced to 1024x in 10% stair steps
Lab Color USM = 50%, 1.3, 4
Save for Web at Photo Shop 30.

Just below the brightest bit, the other side of the ridge
Qualcomm Stadium squats and sighs.

How 'bout them Chargers?


http://www.fototime.com/8ECB0D573C62CDF/orig.jpg

You wanna see View Two? OK:

View Two through a fifth-floor window.
Very light Levels and Curves
Lab Color USM = 50%, 1.3, 4
Reduced to x1024 in 10% stair steps
Lab Color USM = 50%, 1.3, 4
Save for Web at Photo Shop 30.


http://www.fototime.com/1924CA1F022DF13/orig.jpg

--
Frank ess
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 1:46:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Stacey wrote:

> Sheldon wrote:
>
>
>>I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
>>exposure.
>
>
> Get an incedence light meter if you're having this much of a problem. I'm
> not crazy about any reflective meters unless you have no choice but to use
> them, i.e. you can't meter light that equals the light on the subject
> matter.

How you incident meter a sunset shot is something I'm willing to listen
to for entertainment purposes.



--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 2:26:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:42:02 -0600, Sheldon wrote:

> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
> exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried to shoot the
> sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming at several portions
> of the sunset, take some test shots, and then shift to manual mode so I
> can fine tune the exposure, again using the LCD.
>
> With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
> looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.
>
> I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
> was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.
>
> There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that worked
> perfectly every time.
>
> Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>
> Sheldon

No. This is a difficult subject to shoot properly. What I would do is
place my D70 on a tripod and set my composition with one of the AF sensors
over the sun and another over a darker area.

I would then use the spot meter in each of the two regions and take two
shots that I would superimpose in Photoshop to create a single image later.

I took the opening photo on this website using a similar technique when I
still had that godawful Canon D60 - www.musikland.co.za. The biggest
problem taking that picture was the three or four different light sources.
If you exposed for the big sign, everything else was under. If you exposed
for everything else the sign blew out completely. Anyway, the client was
happy with the resultant image and I suppose that's all that matters.

--
"I'm here to make pictures, not friends."

~ Chris Buck
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 3:31:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Roxy d'Urban <not@home.com> writes:
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:42:02 -0600, Sheldon wrote:

>> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a
>> proper exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried
>> to shoot the sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming
>> at several portions of the sunset, take some test shots, and then
>> shift to manual mode so I can fine tune the exposure, again using
>> the LCD.
>>
>> With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the
>> image looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.
>>
>> I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the
>> exposure was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on
>> the image.
>>
>> There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that
>> worked perfectly every time.
>>
>> Any ideas to shorten this procedure?

> No. This is a difficult subject to shoot properly. What I would do
> is place my D70 on a tripod and set my composition with one of the
> AF sensors over the sun and another over a darker area.
>
> I would then use the spot meter in each of the two regions and take
> two shots that I would superimpose in Photoshop to create a single
> image later.

PS CS2 has a new feature, /Merge to HDR/, that seems to have elevated
this old technique to a new level:
http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/hdr.shtml
Looks promising.
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 6:20:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 19 May 2005 09:46:47 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Stacey wrote:
>
>> Sheldon wrote:
>>
>>>I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
>>>exposure.
>>
>> Get an incedence light meter if you're having this much of a problem. I'm
>> not crazy about any reflective meters unless you have no choice but to use
>> them, i.e. you can't meter light that equals the light on the subject
>> matter.
>
>How you incident meter a sunset shot is something I'm willing to listen
>to for entertainment purposes.

Simple: You need a dude in a helicopter to hold it against the clouds
and radio back the numbers.

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 8:18:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 19 May 2005 10:26:40 +0200, Roxy d'Urban <not@home.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:42:02 -0600, Sheldon wrote:
>
>> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
>> exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried to shoot the
>> sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming at several portions
>> of the sunset, take some test shots, and then shift to manual mode so I
>> can fine tune the exposure, again using the LCD.
>>
>> With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
>> looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.
>>
>> I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
>> was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.
>>
>> There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that worked
>> perfectly every time.
>>
>> Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>>
>> Sheldon
>
>No. This is a difficult subject to shoot properly. What I would do is
>place my D70 on a tripod and set my composition with one of the AF sensors
>over the sun and another over a darker area.
>
>I would then use the spot meter in each of the two regions and take two
>shots that I would superimpose in Photoshop to create a single image later.
>
>I took the opening photo on this website using a similar technique when I
>still had that godawful Canon D60 - www.musikland.co.za. The biggest
>problem taking that picture was the three or four different light sources.
>If you exposed for the big sign, everything else was under. If you exposed
>for everything else the sign blew out completely. Anyway, the client was
>happy with the resultant image and I suppose that's all that matters.

Why not just let the camera bracket and do a rapid fire series of
shots? Then pick the best one?
-Rich
Anonymous
May 19, 2005 9:28:10 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Sheldon <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:

> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
> exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried to shoot the
> sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming at several portions of
> the sunset, take some test shots, and then shift to manual mode so I can
> fine tune the exposure, again using the LCD.

If you're going for the usual sunset exposure, there really isn't much to
it. Forget the spot meter; just meter normally and do what it says. You
can fine-tune after, but the meter should be very close at least.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
May 19, 2005 10:26:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:42:02 -0600, "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net>
wrote:

>I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
>exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried to shoot the
>sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming at several portions of
>the sunset, take some test shots, and then shift to manual mode so I can
>fine tune the exposure, again using the LCD.
>
>With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
>looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.
>
>I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
>was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.
>
>There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that worked
>perfectly every time.
>
>Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>
>Sheldon
>

I've given up using any 'fancy' methods of getting an odd shot, I try a few in P
mode and see what the camera selected, then I decide if I want a certain F or
certain shutter speed and then switch to manual, dial in a setting, and then
shot a bunch in a row as I change a setting...

EG I may shoot in auto and get F8 at 1/200 say, then I look at the display to
see if it's close (it's hard to tell exactly) but then if I like the F number,
I would go to manual and set F8 and then try a bunch between maybe 1/50 and
1/500... later on the computer I can pick the best one.

After a while you get to know what to set!
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 12:30:17 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Sheldon wrote:

> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
> exposure.


I use the exposure compensation liberaly. There are some conditions
where that frustrates but it's a useful thing to get accustomed to
adjusting so it becomes gradually more natural.




--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 12:54:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:118o7dmlndurae1@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote in message
> news:FNmdnbxXn7lzYRbfRVn-iQ@comcast.com...
>> I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
>> exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried to shoot the
>> sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming at several portions
> of
>> the sunset, take some test shots, and then shift to manual mode so I can
>> fine tune the exposure, again using the LCD.
>>
>> With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
>> looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.
>>
>> I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
>> was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.
>>
>> There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that worked
>> perfectly every time.
>>
>> Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>>
>
> I guess you never used a film SLR?
>
> Greg
>
Yeah. I just used to bracket a lot. Seems the digital camera is lot less
forgiving, however, if you try to get it on one shot. Also depends on the
metering system in the camera. Maybe spot wasn't the best choice.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 12:58:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 6i55k$650$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Sheldon wrote:
>
>> Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>
> When you metered the sunset, how did you set the exp.comp?

I didn't use any compensation. Not sure what you mean. I've tried full
frame, center and spot.
>
>
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 1:02:19 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Nice


"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 6ic93$eh9$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Frank ess wrote:
>
>> http://www.fototime.com/8ECB0D573C62CDF/orig.jpg
>
> Initially I didn't like the 'dark mass' at the bottom, but the lights do
> give it some form.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 1:04:09 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Bob" <FlintsTone@nospam.com> wrote in message
news:c94q81lhftkq2bt5hipt4crm62ue7d7hnf@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 18 May 2005 20:42:02 -0600, "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net>
> wrote:
>
>>I find the hardest thing to accomplish with my DSLR is to get a proper
>>exposure. Tonight I set the camera to spot meter and tried to shoot the
>>sunset. Using the LCD I try and get close by aiming at several portions
>>of
>>the sunset, take some test shots, and then shift to manual mode so I can
>>fine tune the exposure, again using the LCD.
>>
>>With my point and shoot I can just move the camera around until the image
>>looks good on the LCD, lock it in and "then" shoot.
>>
>>I really miss that "preview" mode, but I love the D70. Once the exposure
>>was on I was able to swap lenses and "really" zoom in on the image.
>>
>>There has to be an easier way. My old Sony had a sunset mode that worked
>>perfectly every time.
>>
>>Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>>
>>Sheldon
>>
>
> I've given up using any 'fancy' methods of getting an odd shot, I try a
> few in P
> mode and see what the camera selected, then I decide if I want a certain F
> or
> certain shutter speed and then switch to manual, dial in a setting, and
> then
> shot a bunch in a row as I change a setting...
>
> EG I may shoot in auto and get F8 at 1/200 say, then I look at the
> display to
> see if it's close (it's hard to tell exactly) but then if I like the F
> number,
> I would go to manual and set F8 and then try a bunch between maybe 1/50
> and
> 1/500... later on the computer I can pick the best one.
>
> After a while you get to know what to set!

That's pretty much what I did. Just need more experience so I have a
starting point.
>
May 20, 2005 3:05:14 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:

>
> How you incident meter a sunset shot is something I'm willing to listen
> to for entertainment purposes.
>
>

Guess you've never heard of "compensation factor"? All you need to know is
how much light is there, get one right and use that "factor" on any other
sunset shot you ever shoot. It's not rocket science.

--

Stacey
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 2:24:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Sheldon wrote:

>
> Yeah. I just used to bracket a lot. Seems the digital camera is lot less
> forgiving, however, if you try to get it on one shot. Also depends on the
> metering system in the camera. Maybe spot wasn't the best choice.

For most photography, backeting is a wasteful and unneccessary practice.
Only in hard to meter shots is bracketing neccessary.

For controlling highlight placement, spot is the best choice. Just be
sure that you understand what you meter with spot is not often what the
exposure setting will be. My prev. post refers.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 2:41:34 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Sheldon wrote:

> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:D 6i55k$650$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>
>>Sheldon wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>>
>>When you metered the sunset, how did you set the exp.comp?
>
>
> I didn't use any compensation. Not sure what you mean. I've tried full
> frame, center and spot.

The meter in the camera believes that the world is one big groovy
mid-tone*. So if you're metering something like the sunset, the meter
says, "wow, that's a really bright mid tone" and proceeds to set for
underexposure.

So, if you, using your considerably stronger powers of observation and
intelligence, look at the scene and decide "wow, there's a bright spot
that I'd like to look bright and detailled in the final print," you can
then point your spot meter at that area and meter it. But, you don't
want it to record as a mid tone, you want to record it as a highlight,
so, using the exp comp set at (eg) +1.7, you force the exposure to be
1.7 stops more than the meter recomends. For your camera sensor, the
highlight might be best recorded at +1 or +1.3 or +2. I don't know, but
a little experimentation should get you there.

It's that simple.

If you happen to be metering something in the park, then the grass
provides something close to mid tone. So, no exp comp.

Backlit yellow leaves seem to record on film at +1 just perfectly, and
backlitred leaves at 0.

etc.

Go around metering things with the spot meter in constant even light.
There is one correct expsoure for all of them ... but the meter won't
tell you what it is. Spot meter a grey card to get a correct value that
will record everything in that scene fairly well (but maybe not the
highlights).

*I thought the Nikon D70 had a subset of the Nikon F5 metering system,
as such, in almost all situations save backlight, it should compensate
for the color of the subject... anyone?

Cheers,
Alan.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 2:49:02 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Stacey wrote:

> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
>>How you incident meter a sunset shot is something I'm willing to listen
>>to for entertainment purposes.
>>
>>
>
>
> Guess you've never heard of "compensation factor"? All you need to know is

"Exposure compensation" is what is said, done and used.

And it is an offset (+/-) not a factor (mult/div.)

> how much light is there, get one right and use that "factor" on any other
> sunset shot you ever shoot. It's not rocket science.

You cannot incident meter a sunset. Period. You can _spot_ meter it
(that's always a good start) and apply exp. comp. My replies to Sheldon
refer.

Incident metering measures the light falling on a subject. As a sunset
is a light source it's impossible to incident meter it.

Cheers,
Alan


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Anonymous
May 20, 2005 2:49:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> writes:
> Incident metering measures the light falling on a subject. As a
> sunset is a light source it's impossible to incident meter it.

Hee hee. True true.

Also for shits and giggles, try underexposing the sun sometime.

For me, sunsets are always a BLH situation. Digital makes this
easier.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 7:11:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 20 May 2005 10:41:34 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>*I thought the Nikon D70 had a subset of the Nikon F5 metering system,
>as such, in almost all situations save backlight, it should compensate
>for the color of the subject... anyone?

The D70 has a 1005 element color '3D' matrix meter, the same as the
F5, yes. As for the logic behind what to do with that information, the
D70 may differ from the F5, but I don't see why they'd need to change
it.*

* Other than to do the secret Nikon underexposure for DSLRs process.

I'm going to get a small bumper sticker for my camera:
"SAVE THE HIGHLIGHTS"

--
Owamanga!
http://www.pbase.com/owamanga
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 7:52:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 6ksuk$du8$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Sheldon wrote:
>
>> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@freelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
>> news:D 6i55k$650$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>>
>>>Sheldon wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>Any ideas to shorten this procedure?
>>>
>>>When you metered the sunset, how did you set the exp.comp?
>>
>>
>> I didn't use any compensation. Not sure what you mean. I've tried full
>> frame, center and spot.
>
> The meter in the camera believes that the world is one big groovy
> mid-tone*. So if you're metering something like the sunset, the meter
> says, "wow, that's a really bright mid tone" and proceeds to set for
> underexposure.
>
> So, if you, using your considerably stronger powers of observation and
> intelligence, look at the scene and decide "wow, there's a bright spot
> that I'd like to look bright and detailled in the final print," you can
> then point your spot meter at that area and meter it. But, you don't want
> it to record as a mid tone, you want to record it as a highlight, so,
> using the exp comp set at (eg) +1.7, you force the exposure to be 1.7
> stops more than the meter recomends. For your camera sensor, the
> highlight might be best recorded at +1 or +1.3 or +2. I don't know, but a
> little experimentation should get you there.
>
> It's that simple.
>
> If you happen to be metering something in the park, then the grass
> provides something close to mid tone. So, no exp comp.
>
> Backlit yellow leaves seem to record on film at +1 just perfectly, and
> backlitred leaves at 0.
>
> etc.
>
> Go around metering things with the spot meter in constant even light.
> There is one correct expsoure for all of them ... but the meter won't tell
> you what it is. Spot meter a grey card to get a correct value that will
> record everything in that scene fairly well (but maybe not the
> highlights).
>

Sounds like a great way to get a good starting point. BTW, how the hell do
those "sunset" modes on point and shoot cameras work?
Anonymous
May 20, 2005 10:36:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Sheldon wrote:

> Sounds like a great way to get a good starting point. BTW, how the
> hell do those "sunset" modes on point and shoot cameras work?

See above! I believe most of them simply "overexpose" 2 to 3 stops and
blow out some flash in case there was somebody in the shot. Since most
P&S ers use negative film, a 2 to 3 stop over will print fine (and the
DX code gives them the latitude in any case). A digital P&S can have a
much better exposure meter ... the sensor, so it can detect the
highlight and set the exposure accordingly (and blow out some flash in
case somebody is standing there....)

Cheers,
Alan.


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May 20, 2005 11:30:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:

> Stacey wrote:

>
>> how much light is there, get one right and use that "factor" on any other
>> sunset shot you ever shoot. It's not rocket science.
>
> You cannot incident meter a sunset. Period.

It's worked for me, at least using this type of meter. Have you ever tried
it?


> You can _spot_ meter it
> (that's always a good start) and apply exp. comp. My replies to Sheldon
> refer.

So lets see some examples of your great sunset shots?

--

Stacey
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 4:45:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In message <Hpmdnded5N8ZhhHfRVn-oA@comcast.com>,
"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:

>I actually have several light meters and do use them. The problem I'm
>having is with things like sunsets, where you're not sure what to meter on
>to get the best image.

For Jpegs, expose for +2 stops in the brightest part of the scene. For
RAW, +3, unless your camera doesn't have the headroom.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 4:50:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In message <3f52faF61iviU2@individual.net>,
Stacey <fotocord@yahoo.com> wrote:

>Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>
>> How you incident meter a sunset shot is something I'm willing to listen
>> to for entertainment purposes.
>>
>>
>
>Guess you've never heard of "compensation factor"? All you need to know is
>how much light is there, get one right and use that "factor" on any other
>sunset shot you ever shoot. It's not rocket science.

When you're shooting a sunset, you're shooting a light source. If there
are 20 little clouds or one, you need the same exposure. They will give
different results with an ambient reading, just like if you had five
sets of lights on a christmas tree, versus 5 bulbs.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 4:53:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In message <vPOdnQnmL-XByhDfRVn-vw@comcast.com>,
"Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:

>Yeah. I just used to bracket a lot. Seems the digital camera is lot less
>forgiving, however, if you try to get it on one shot. Also depends on the
>metering system in the camera. Maybe spot wasn't the best choice.

I would say spot *is* the best way to optimize a sunset exposure. Place
the brightest part of the sunset in the top of the camera's dynamic
range. This is usually about +2 stops for JPEG, and +3 stops for RAW.
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 2:40:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Stacey wrote:

> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
>>Stacey wrote:
>
>
>>>how much light is there, get one right and use that "factor" on any other
>>>sunset shot you ever shoot. It's not rocket science.
>>
>>You cannot incident meter a sunset. Period.
>
>
> It's worked for me, at least using this type of meter. Have you ever tried
> it?

Stacey, this is absurd. Incident metering means metering the light
incident to the shot. That is to say what is falling on a shot. In a
sunset shot, light is falling on clouds and water. You can't get
between the sun and the clouds, practically. It is a backlit shot writ
very freaking large. If you've used incident metering to do so then
your results if good are flukes, and nothing else.

You need to "spot" meter.

>
>>You can _spot_ meter it
>>(that's always a good start) and apply exp. comp. My replies to Sheldon
>>refer.
>
>
> So lets see some examples of your great sunset shots?

I don't know about 'great', it's not a favourite subject. All of the
following are spot metered, slide film.

http://www.aliasimages.com/images/MF/D1000003S.jpg E100S
http://www.aliasimages.com/images/RiverSunrise0001.jpg E100G 35mm
http://www.aliasimages.com/images/Cancun_0009_sunrise.j... Sensia 100

Let's see yours.

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-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 4:47:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

<JPS@no.komm> wrote in message
news:qb1t81lifa4uob1vdd30g2jlmihn4h7q4u@4ax.com...
> In message <vPOdnQnmL-XByhDfRVn-vw@comcast.com>,
> "Sheldon" <sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:
>
>>Yeah. I just used to bracket a lot. Seems the digital camera is lot less
>>forgiving, however, if you try to get it on one shot. Also depends on the
>>metering system in the camera. Maybe spot wasn't the best choice.
>
> I would say spot *is* the best way to optimize a sunset exposure. Place
> the brightest part of the sunset in the top of the camera's dynamic
> range. This is usually about +2 stops for JPEG, and +3 stops for RAW.

So the trick is to find the "magic" exposure compensation.

Sheldon
> --
May 21, 2005 10:27:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:

> If you've used incident metering to do so then
> your results if good are flukes, and nothing else.

There is no difference between spot metering and compensating and incedent
metering and compensating other than the amount of compensation used. Once
you know how much compensation is needed in either case, it works
everytime. Both methods are measuring the amount of light from the source.

You do realise when you are spotmetering the light source (sun, sunlite
clouds etc) you aren't -really- doing reflective metering don't you?



>>
>> So lets see some examples of your great sunset shots?
>
> I don't know about 'great', it's not a favourite subject. All of the
> following are spot metered, slide film.
>
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/MF/D1000003S.jpg E100S
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/RiverSunrise0001.jpg E100G 35mm
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/Cancun_0009_sunrise.j... Sensia 100
>

NC

--

Stacey
May 21, 2005 10:28:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Sheldon wrote:


>
> So the trick is to find the "magic" exposure compensation.
>


That's all there is to it no matter what sort of meter you are using.

--

Stacey
Anonymous
May 21, 2005 11:55:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Stacey wrote:

> Alan Browne wrote:
>
>
>>If you've used incident metering to do so then
>>your results if good are flukes, and nothing else.
>
>
> There is no difference between spot metering and compensating and incedent
> metering and compensating other than the amount of compensation used. Once
> you know how much compensation is needed in either case, it works
> everytime. Both methods are measuring the amount of light from the source.

Incident metering of the light is subject independant. All subjects
under incident lighting will record correctly with an incident reading
without any compensation. (You can make minor amounts of compensation
to effect contrast, but it is not neccesary).

For backlit subjects (clouds, sky, reflections on water), incident
metering is largely useless.

So, spot meter for a known tonality and then compensate appropriately.
For backlight, this usually means meter a highlight and open up
appropriately for the film or sensor type.

> You do realise when you are spotmetering the light source (sun, sunlite
> clouds etc) you aren't -really- doing reflective metering don't you?

Yes, and clearly you do not. My previous posts on the subject refer.

Spot metering is used also to measure the highlights in a scene such
that they can be placed per the sensitivity of the film or sensor.

Cheers,
Alan.



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Anonymous
May 22, 2005 2:56:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>>
>> So lets see some examples of your great sunset shots?
>
>
> I don't know about 'great', it's not a favourite subject. All of the
> following are spot metered, slide film.
>
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/MF/D1000003S.jpg E100S
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/RiverSunrise0001.jpg E100G 35mm
> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/Cancun_0009_sunrise.j... Sensia 100


Nice, esp the last one!


>
> Let's see yours.


These aren't the same painted cloud situation but last night I had great
luck just accepting the metering right out of my D70 in aperture priority:

<http://www.aliasimages.com/images/Cancun_0009_sunrise.j...;


--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 7:01:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Paul Furman wrote:

> Alan Browne wrote:
>>
>> I don't know about 'great', it's not a favourite subject. All of the
>> following are spot metered, slide film.
>>
>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/MF/D1000003S.jpg E100S
>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/RiverSunrise0001.jpg E100G 35mm
>> http://www.aliasimages.com/images/Cancun_0009_sunrise.j... Sensia 100
>
>
>
> Nice, esp the last one!

Thx. I don't like it that much. There was another with a touch of fill
flash, but just not enough to make the scanner happy.
>
> These aren't the same painted cloud situation but last night I had great
> luck just accepting the metering right out of my D70 in aperture priority:
>
> <http://www.aliasimages.com/images/Cancun_0009_sunrise.j...;

eh? Looks just like mine! (pasting problem?).

Cheers,
Alan.


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-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 7:01:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:

> Paul Furman wrote:
>
>>
>> These aren't the same painted cloud situation but last night I had
>> great luck just accepting the metering right out of my D70 in aperture
>> priority:
>>
>> <http://www.aliasimages.com/images/Cancun_0009_sunrise.j...;
>
>
> eh? Looks just like mine! (pasting problem?).


Ugh, try this:
<http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=California/Bay...;
darn clipboard!

--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
Anonymous
May 22, 2005 7:38:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Paul Furman wrote:

> Ugh, try this:
> <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=California/Bay...;

Out of the set there, I prefer the less busy shots, including the one
with the moon.

Cheers,
Alan.


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Anonymous
May 22, 2005 7:38:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:
> Paul Furman wrote:
>
>> Ugh, try this:
>> <http://www.edgehill.net/1/?SC=go.php&DIR=California/Bay...;
>
>
>
> Out of the set there, I prefer the less busy shots, including the one
> with the moon.


Yeah that first one is more "interesting" that pleasing <g>.
Kind of unsettling actually.

--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
Anonymous
May 26, 2005 7:57:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 19 May 2005 11:31:00 +0200, Gisle Hannemyr wrote:

> PS CS2 has a new feature, /Merge to HDR/, that seems to have elevated this
> old technique to a new level:
> http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/hdr.shtml
> Looks promising.

It does, indeed!

Would have saved me a bunch of work.

--
"I'm here to make pictures, not friends."

~ Chris Buck
!