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Where to invest in my current system

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December 19, 2012 3:43:08 PM

So originally i had a thread to review parts i had selected for a new upgrade however on multiple sites i am being told i am wasting my money. So i started this to list my entire system and get input on if there are any places i could get some performance increase or invest money that would be worth it. I primarily play FPS games and do some photoshop. Please, any input is appreciated. I was so ready to hit the button my last cart however it appears i would have blown a bunch of money for nothing. HEEEELLLPP!!!!

CPU: Intel Core i7-940 Bloomfield 2.93GHz LGA 1366 130W Quad-Core Desktop Processor BX80601940

Mobo: ASUS P6T Deluxe V2 LGA 1366 Intel X58 ATX Intel Motherboard

Ram: 2 x CORSAIR DOMINATOR 6GB (3 x 2GB) 240-Pin DDR3 SDRAM DDR3 1600 (PC3 12800)
12GB total

GPU: 2 x GIGABYTE GV-R697OC-2GD Radeon HD 6970 2GB 256-bit GDDR5 in crossfire

PSU: Corsair 1k watt modular

Boot/Primary games drive: Corsair Force Series GT CSSD-F120GBGT-BK 2.5" 120GB SATA III Internal Solid State Drive (SSD)

Storage: 2 WD Velociraptor 150gb in raid 0

Case: Antec 1200 V3

Keyboard: razer black widow mechanical

Mouse: Logitech G9

Monitor: just ordered asus 120hz 27"

Headset: Plantronics dsp 500

More about : invest current system

December 19, 2012 3:47:33 PM

What is your budget?
December 19, 2012 3:48:44 PM

its flexible depending. I'm not looking to dump 2K into this system.
Related resources
December 19, 2012 3:57:45 PM

Easiest upgrade would be just to get a 7970, which would probably outperform your Xfired cards. After that you could get a new MOBO, CPU, and RAM.

If you decide to go that route, I'd get an i5 3570k, an Asus or Gigabyte Z77 (I have the Asus P8Z77-V), and 2x4GB of Corsair or G.Skill RAM.
December 19, 2012 3:57:56 PM

You build is solid. Whatever you do, don't touch your graphics cards as they are good for the next 2 years minimum. Make sure you have a decent oc on those cards through CCC though, otherwise they're not using their potentional xD. As far as upgrades it really is simple. For a good solid upgrade you need 2 parts really, you'll have to downgrade to 8gigs of ram which is fine unless you are running rendering software and even then it isn't too bad.

Mobo

CPU

Ranked in lol just started i'll prove reasoning in a sec
December 19, 2012 4:04:07 PM

Praxeology said:
You build is solid. Whatever you do, don't touch your graphics cards as they are good for the next 2 years minimum. Make sure you have a decent oc on those cards through CCC though, otherwise they're not using their potentional xD. As far as upgrades it really is simple. For a good solid upgrade you need 2 parts really, you'll have to downgrade to 8gigs of ram which is fine unless you are running rendering software and even then it isn't too bad.

Mobo

CPU

Ranked in lol just started i'll prove reasoning in a sec



If i got that 3820 and the new mobo what kind of performance increase am i looking at?

Also, my GPU's are running stock. do you think i really need to OC them?
December 19, 2012 4:09:46 PM

hatebreeder said:
If i got that 3820 and the new mobo what kind of performance increase am i looking at?

Also, my GPU's are running stock. do you think i really need to OC them?


Trying to gank as amumu and make sure someone doesn't come and say GO Z77 GTX 690 lol. I am not sure I will need to find benchmarks to give you accurate estimations. Let me finish this! I'd guess conservatively and say 15. Yes I think you should OC them they are meant to be OC.
December 19, 2012 4:21:30 PM

Depending how much Photoshop you're doing would weigh a lot on which CPU you should get in my opinion. If you're doing a fair amount, or a lot I'd say go with a Core i7 3770k (3770 for no overclocking) that will give you quad core with hyper threading. If you only do a small amount of Photoshop I'd scale back to a Core i5 3570k or 2500k depending on your taste for over clocking (2500k overclocks better). If you don't want to do any overclocking then a plain 3570.


I'm not as knowledgeable when it comes to motherboards, but any of those cpus I listed will work on a socket LGA 1155 motherboard. What motherboard you get all depends on what you want to do. If you want to do overclocking then a Z77 boards are more geared for that, but may cost a little more.


You'll need new ram. I think most people will agree somewhere between DDR3 1333 and 1600 is the sweet spot. I personally like Corsair, but I do see a lot of Mushkin users. RAM is cheap, I'd recommend 16 GB. 8 GB is the sweet spot right now but 16 GB will give you some future proofing and Photoshop may enjoy the extra room.


Your Power Supply is good, more then enough power especially if you want to continue using crossfire or SLI.


I have that exact same SSD. Certainly great for a system drive. Up to you if you want more space or not. I did upgrade to this one recently and I'm loving it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


I'm not a big fan of using RAID 0 for storage, just because if one dies you lose everything. I'd suggest at least a 1 TB drive for storing files. Something like this is nice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Not sure what you want to do about the graphics cards. Could reuse them or upgrade. I know AMD is releasing the 8000 series in the next few months. May want to wait for that?
December 19, 2012 4:24:19 PM

Kindredsouls said:
Depending how much Photoshop you're doing would weigh a lot on which CPU you should get in my opinion. If you're doing a fair amount, or a lot I'd say go with a Core i7 3770k (3770 for no overclocking) that will give you quad core with hyper threading. If you only do a small amount of Photoshop I'd scale back to a Core i5 3570k or 2500k depending on your taste for over clocking (2500k overclocks better). If you don't want to do any overclocking then a plain 3570.


I'm not as knowledgeable when it comes to motherboards, but any of those cpus I listed will work on a socket LGA 1155 motherboard. What motherboard you get all depends on what you want to do. If you want to do overclocking then a Z77 boards are more geared for that, but may cost a little more.


You'll need new ram. I think most people will agree somewhere between DDR3 1333 and 1600 is the sweet spot. I personally like Corsair, but I do see a lot of Mushkin users. RAM is cheap, I'd recommend 16 GB. 8 GB is the sweet spot right now but 16 GB will give you some future proofing and Photoshop may enjoy the extra room.


Your Power Supply is good, more then enough power especially if you want to continue using crossfire or SLI.


I have that exact same SSD. Certainly great for a system drive. Up to you if you want more space or not. I did upgrade to this one recently and I'm loving it: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

I've got a 1TB mybook external that i back everything up on weekly.




I'm not a big fan of using RAID 0 for storage, just because if one dies you lose everything. I'd suggest at least a 1 TB drive for storing files. Something like this is nice:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


Not sure what you want to do about the graphics cards. Could reuse them or upgrade. I know AMD is releasing the 8000 series in the next few months. May want to wait for that?



I do a bit of photoshop, not a lot at all. Mostly gaming. I am content with my GPU's without oc currently. You think that upgrading to a higher end 4c i7 would get me a noticeable increase in performance though?
December 19, 2012 4:29:00 PM

Praxeology said:
Trying to gank as amumu and make sure someone doesn't come and say GO Z77 GTX 690 lol. I am not sure I will need to find benchmarks to give you accurate estimations. Let me finish this! I'd guess conservatively and say 15. Yes I think you should OC them they are meant to be OC.



THanks A Lot. I really appreciate the help. and please let me know what you find. How easy is it to OC these gpu's?

Also, it sounds like you are recommending a new cpu/board/ram am i wrong?

I am confused cause in my other thread people were saying its a waste however in this one it seems like the consensus is to oc my cards if i do anything with my gpus and get a new board/chip/ram.

right?
December 19, 2012 4:33:02 PM

hatebreeder said:
I do a bit of photoshop, not a lot at all. Mostly gaming. I am content with my GPU's without oc currently. You think that upgrading to a higher end 4c i7 would get me a noticeable increase in performance though?




Not really. Look at the article on Tom's I have linked below for you. Core i7 3770k is a great cpu, don't get me wrong. It's just not cost effective. At least, according to Tom's.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-cpu-review-o...


Big difference between the 3570k and the 3770k is hyper threading. Photoshop would see some benefit from 4 physical cores and 4 virtual cores (hyper threading). Most games only use 2 cores. Some do use 4. Off hand, I'm not aware of any games that will take advantage of hyper threading, nothing noticeable anyway (I'm welcome to hearing anyone shed some light on that topic). Anyway, everything I've read says games are using 2-4 cores physical cores.
December 19, 2012 5:01:55 PM

hatebreeder said:
THanks A Lot. I really appreciate the help. and please let me know what you find. How easy is it to OC these gpu's?

Also, it sounds like you are recommending a new cpu/board/ram am i wrong?

I am confused cause in my other thread people were saying its a waste however in this one it seems like the consensus is to oc my cards if i do anything with my gpus and get a new board/chip/ram.

right?


Ok, I am recommending a new cpu/board and your current ram works fine on the new board. Problem is you have a tripple channel set up, and to make quad channel work on the new board with a 3820 you would have to bump down to 8GB, 4x2GB of your Corsair Dominator. As far as the cards go, I always say OC the cards through the CCC software or any software really. As an example I have the 6870 XFX 2GB edition. Stock is 900 core, 1050 memory, I did a very easy, stable OC to 940 core, 1125 memory. That was done by 10mhz increases for core, and 25 for memory per stable pass. I used skyrim with 2k texture mods and every other mod I had at max settings. Long story short, I went to 950 core, and it crashed, backed down to 940 core and bingo, I went to 1150 memory@940 core and it crashed and backed down by 5 mhz on memory until it stopped crashing. Took a while as I tested game for about an hour or longer, depending on what I was doing in skyrim at the time lol, before declaring it a pass and juicing it up/down. Now I am left with a 5-10 fps gain from a simple OC that has been stable on everything I run it at. Don't mess with stability test programs as they only blow your time. They will say stable and you'll crash after 1 minute of gameplay testing, or so has been my experience. Do this with your cards to get their peek, and you're set.

Now most people in here are going to recommend a z77 build running either the i5k edition, or the i7k edition. Its an old chip-set on an even older socket. Do not do this as it is a complete waste of money to invest in old tech. Intel's new socket is 2011, that's what you want to future proof yourself on. Your title is "Where to invest in my current system." My answer is the Z79 + 2011 + i7 3820. It will set you up for ivy-e and even if it didn't it's the better buy for the future as 1155 is just old old old. Both processors, assuming you went with the 1155 i7, are 300$ and the mobo can vary but at 230 for 2011, it is very reasonable. As I said, OC those cards for their optimal levels, assuming they aren't overheating obviously, I am not sure if you're cards have 2 fan cooling systems, my xfx only has 1 and it gets 75C in long gaming sessions with OC. 75 is alright though they are rated for 105. Anything over 85 though and you want to start thinking about better cooling because that is quite stressful on the silicone xD. Alright, benchmarks. What will this upgrade do for ya. Well, I don't know but I know it will be an improvement! There are no benchmarks comparing the first gen i7s with current gen. I can show you some old numbers with sigh... and speculate that on a gen 3 i7 the numbers would be better. That's about it. Ultimately, it's your choice.

Performance: i7 3770k with a z77 = godly. However, it is old tech, and does not have a path forward.

Performance: i7 3820 with a z79 = godly amazing xD. Single threading performance is not as good as the ivy above, but pretty close. It is sandy so that is to be expected.
Does very well fps wise these things are equal, but will cost you 50-80$ more if you buy a 150-200$ z77 board.

Mobo

CPU

You know my recommendation, gl, and make the right choice! :pt1cable: 
December 19, 2012 5:13:37 PM

Praxeology said:
Ok, I am recommending a new cpu/board and your current ram works fine on the new board. Problem is you have a tripple channel set up, and to make quad channel work on the new board with a 3820 you would have to bump down to 8GB, 4x2GB of your Corsair Dominator. As far as the cards go, I always say OC the cards through the CCC software or any software really. As an example I have the 6870 XFX 2GB edition. Stock is 900 core, 1050 memory, I did a very easy, stable OC to 940 core, 1125 memory. That was done by 10mhz increases for core, and 25 for memory per stable pass. I used skyrim with 2k texture mods and every other mod I had at max settings. Long story short, I went to 950 core, and it crashed, backed down to 940 core and bingo, I went to 1150 memory@940 core and it crashed and backed down by 5 mhz on memory until it stopped crashing. Took a while as I tested game for about an hour or longer, depending on what I was doing in skyrim at the time lol, before declaring it a pass and juicing it up/down. Now I am left with a 5-10 fps gain from a simple OC that has been stable on everything I run it at. Don't mess with stability test programs as they only blow your time. They will say stable and you'll crash after 1 minute of gameplay testing, or so has been my experience. Do this with your cards to get their peek, and you're set.

Now most people in here are going to recommend a z77 build running either the i5k edition, or the i7k edition. Its an old chip-set on an even older socket. Do not do this as it is a complete waste of money to invest in old tech. Intel's new socket is 2011, that's what you want to future proof yourself on. Your title is "Where to invest in my current system." My answer is the Z79 + 2011 + i7 3820. It will set you up for ivy-e and even if it didn't it's the better buy for the future as 1155 is just old old old. Both processors, assuming you went with the 1155 i7, are 300$ and the mobo can vary but at 230 for 2011, it is very reasonable. As I said, OC those cards for their optimal levels, assuming they aren't overheating obviously, I am not sure if you're cards have 2 fan cooling systems, my xfx only has 1 and it gets 75C in long gaming sessions with OC. 75 is alright though they are rated for 105. Anything over 85 though and you want to start thinking about better cooling because that is quite stressful on the silicone xD. Alright, benchmarks. What will this upgrade do for ya. Well, I don't know but I know it will be an improvement! There are no benchmarks comparing the first gen i7s with current gen. I can show you some old numbers with sigh... and speculate that on a gen 3 i7 the numbers would be better. That's about it. Ultimately, it's your choice.

Performance: i7 3770k with a z77 = godly. However, it is old tech, and does not have a path forward.

Performance: i7 3820 with a z79 = godly amazing xD. Single threading performance is not as good as the ivy above, but pretty close. It is sandy so that is to be expected.
Does very well fps wise these things are equal, but will cost you 50-80$ more if you buy a 150-200$ z77 board.

Mobo

CPU

You know my recommendation, gl, and make the right choice! :pt1cable: 



Well put Praxeology.
December 19, 2012 5:15:42 PM

Praxeology said:
Ok, I am recommending a new cpu/board and your current ram works fine on the new board. Problem is you have a tripple channel set up, and to make quad channel work on the new board with a 3820 you would have to bump down to 8GB, 4x2GB of your Corsair Dominator. As far as the cards go, I always say OC the cards through the CCC software or any software really. As an example I have the 6870 XFX 2GB edition. Stock is 900 core, 1050 memory, I did a very easy, stable OC to 940 core, 1125 memory. That was done by 10mhz increases for core, and 25 for memory per stable pass. I used skyrim with 2k texture mods and every other mod I had at max settings. Long story short, I went to 950 core, and it crashed, backed down to 940 core and bingo, I went to 1150 memory@940 core and it crashed and backed down by 5 mhz on memory until it stopped crashing. Took a while as I tested game for about an hour or longer, depending on what I was doing in skyrim at the time lol, before declaring it a pass and juicing it up/down. Now I am left with a 5-10 fps gain from a simple OC that has been stable on everything I run it at. Don't mess with stability test programs as they only blow your time. They will say stable and you'll crash after 1 minute of gameplay testing, or so has been my experience. Do this with your cards to get their peek, and you're set.

Now most people in here are going to recommend a z77 build running either the i5k edition, or the i7k edition. Its an old chip-set on an even older socket. Do not do this as it is a complete waste of money to invest in old tech. Intel's new socket is 2011, that's what you want to future proof yourself on. Your title is "Where to invest in my current system." My answer is the Z79 + 2011 + i7 3820. It will set you up for ivy-e and even if it didn't it's the better buy for the future as 1155 is just old old old. Both processors, assuming you went with the 1155 i7, are 300$ and the mobo can vary but at 230 for 2011, it is very reasonable. As I said, OC those cards for their optimal levels, assuming they aren't overheating obviously, I am not sure if you're cards have 2 fan cooling systems, my xfx only has 1 and it gets 75C in long gaming sessions with OC. 75 is alright though they are rated for 105. Anything over 85 though and you want to start thinking about better cooling because that is quite stressful on the silicone xD. Alright, benchmarks. What will this upgrade do for ya. Well, I don't know but I know it will be an improvement! There are no benchmarks comparing the first gen i7s with current gen. I can show you some old numbers with sigh... and speculate that on a gen 3 i7 the numbers would be better. That's about it. Ultimately, it's your choice.

Performance: i7 3770k with a z77 = godly. However, it is old tech, and does not have a path forward.

Performance: i7 3820 with a z79 = godly amazing xD. Single threading performance is not as good as the ivy above, but pretty close. It is sandy so that is to be expected.
Does very well fps wise these things are equal, but will cost you 50-80$ more if you buy a 150-200$ z77 board.

Mobo

CPU

You know my recommendation, gl, and make the right choice! :pt1cable: 



Thanks! with my current GPU's and my just arrived 120hz monitor i am getting between 120-200fps at all times so i think i am straight for the GPUs for now. I am tempted to get the 3820 and new mobo. Still unsure. Ugh... first world problems.
December 19, 2012 5:34:37 PM

hatebreeder said:
Thanks! with my current GPU's and my just arrived 120hz monitor i am getting between 120-200fps at all times so i think i am straight for the GPUs for now. I am tempted to get the 3820 and new mobo. Still unsure. Ugh... first world problems.


If anything they aren't going anywhere. You can always just wait. But if you do upgrade my only :non:  is STAY AWAY from 1155. In your position with your setup, I wouldn't upgrade though tbh. As you say you're frames are gg for what you play.
December 19, 2012 6:00:01 PM

Praxeology said:
If anything they aren't going anywhere. You can always just wait. But if you do upgrade my only :non:  is STAY AWAY from 1155. In your position with your setup, I wouldn't upgrade though tbh. As you say you're frames are gg for what you play.


maybe ill just get a new case for now. I want to put some money into my system. I think my board chip and ram are fine for now i guess. I have one bad dimm slot on my board that required me to reseed the stick of ram in it periodically and its annoying also i have no usb3. Other than that i'm content with it i just am always interested in any type of performance increase i can get while gaming.

Any favorites for cases? I like my antec case however the amount of dust it gets on the fan grates is annoying.
December 19, 2012 6:12:16 PM

hatebreeder said:
maybe ill just get a new case for now. I want to put some money into my system. I think my board chip and ram are fine for now i guess. I have one bad dimm slot on my board that required me to reseed the stick of ram in it periodically and its annoying also i have no usb3. Other than that i'm content with it i just am always interested in any type of performance increase i can get while gaming.

Any favorites for cases? I like my antec case however the amount of dust it gets on the fan grates is annoying.




This is the case I'm using for my Rig:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...


I've used other Cooler Master HAF cases in other builds for myself and friends. I like the HAF 932, and HAF 912. Also a great mid tower is the Cooler Master Storm Scout. I have used ThermalTek and Antec in the past and they're alright but my favorites always seem to end up being Cooler Master.
December 19, 2012 6:14:10 PM

Praxeology said:
If anything they aren't going anywhere. You can always just wait. But if you do upgrade my only :non:  is STAY AWAY from 1155. In your position with your setup, I wouldn't upgrade though tbh. As you say you're frames are gg for what you play.



You do make a really good point Prax about the LGA 1155 getting old. I did recently build one, but I forgot I did that because I paid $180 for the i5 3570k and it came with a solid z77 motherboard on top of that. Was a Black Friday deal.
December 19, 2012 7:03:26 PM

Praxeology said:
Ok, I am recommending a new cpu/board and your current ram works fine on the new board. Problem is you have a tripple channel set up, and to make quad channel work on the new board with a 3820 you would have to bump down to 8GB, 4x2GB of your Corsair Dominator. As far as the cards go, I always say OC the cards through the CCC software or any software really. As an example I have the 6870 XFX 2GB edition. Stock is 900 core, 1050 memory, I did a very easy, stable OC to 940 core, 1125 memory. That was done by 10mhz increases for core, and 25 for memory per stable pass. I used skyrim with 2k texture mods and every other mod I had at max settings. Long story short, I went to 950 core, and it crashed, backed down to 940 core and bingo, I went to 1150 memory@940 core and it crashed and backed down by 5 mhz on memory until it stopped crashing. Took a while as I tested game for about an hour or longer, depending on what I was doing in skyrim at the time lol, before declaring it a pass and juicing it up/down. Now I am left with a 5-10 fps gain from a simple OC that has been stable on everything I run it at. Don't mess with stability test programs as they only blow your time. They will say stable and you'll crash after 1 minute of gameplay testing, or so has been my experience. Do this with your cards to get their peek, and you're set.

Now most people in here are going to recommend a z77 build running either the i5k edition, or the i7k edition. Its an old chip-set on an even older socket. Do not do this as it is a complete waste of money to invest in old tech. Intel's new socket is 2011, that's what you want to future proof yourself on. Your title is "Where to invest in my current system." My answer is the Z79 + 2011 + i7 3820. It will set you up for ivy-e and even if it didn't it's the better buy for the future as 1155 is just old old old. Both processors, assuming you went with the 1155 i7, are 300$ and the mobo can vary but at 230 for 2011, it is very reasonable. As I said, OC those cards for their optimal levels, assuming they aren't overheating obviously, I am not sure if you're cards have 2 fan cooling systems, my xfx only has 1 and it gets 75C in long gaming sessions with OC. 75 is alright though they are rated for 105. Anything over 85 though and you want to start thinking about better cooling because that is quite stressful on the silicone xD. Alright, benchmarks. What will this upgrade do for ya. Well, I don't know but I know it will be an improvement! There are no benchmarks comparing the first gen i7s with current gen. I can show you some old numbers with sigh... and speculate that on a gen 3 i7 the numbers would be better. That's about it. Ultimately, it's your choice.

Performance: i7 3770k with a z77 = godly. However, it is old tech, and does not have a path forward.

Performance: i7 3820 with a z79 = godly amazing xD. Single threading performance is not as good as the ivy above, but pretty close. It is sandy so that is to be expected.
Does very well fps wise these things are equal, but will cost you 50-80$ more if you buy a 150-200$ z77 board.

Mobo

CPU

You know my recommendation, gl, and make the right choice! :pt1cable: 


Prax I agree with you except about the 2011 socket. Haswell is going to be using socket 1150, not 2011, so I don't really see any reason to go 2011 as it's just as old-tech as 1155.
December 19, 2012 7:33:21 PM

Yeah, I think JMer806 is right. Since you cannot get a LGA 1150 board and none of the current boards (LGA 1155 or 2011) will be Haswell compatible - you can't future proof.

After looking at what you have more closely, I think I would stick with what you have. I don't believe you're going to see a "significant" performance increase for the amount of money you'd be spending. If you're not happy with your computer case then go ahead and rebuild your current system into that. Case can be reused anyway. Sounds like the Haswell cpus will be coming out sometime between May and June of 2013.
December 19, 2012 8:10:41 PM

JMer806 said:
Prax I agree with you except about the 2011 socket. Haswell is going to be using socket 1150, not 2011, so I don't really see any reason to go 2011 as it's just as old-tech as 1155.


That's news to me can you provide a source for me because I am lazy and since you brought it up. If this is indeed the case then 2011 is literally worthless. There are 3 processors for it, z79 has problems with pci3.0 and those 3 processors working on it also so there would literally be no point in 2011 which came out in 2011 so it isn't quite old tech. Which!!!... Begs the question, assuming you are right and nothing is going forward on 2011, which doesn't make any sense, why in the hell did the come out with 2011?


Edit: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1731717 I just did a little digging, I lied. All of this is rumor based, ivy-e could be on socket pineapples for all we know. As the rumor stands though ivy-e is coming out next year and haswell is even more of ghost on release date. Assuming these are right, I would still stand by my recommendation. 2011 has a good 5 years in it. If you are rocking a 940 you upgrade like me. This would be the better buy for you I think. But then again... Haswell nom nom. It comes down to this. Upgrade now for the better future proof build ie 2011 for only 50 bucks more with the right mobo pick. Or upgrade now for 1155/i5 build which has NO future. Option 3 of course is wait and see what's really going on here xD. But if you are going to upgrade 2011 is the way to go as you can get ivy-e if performance is decent enough to tide you over for haswall, if, when, and on what it actually comes out on.

Edit 2: The more I think about this the more it makes sense for haswell to come out on 2011. Why make another socket when they just released one? That just doesn't make good business sense. It's not like they needed to compete with AMD lol That fight is over, AMD is raping in the servers/apu market. So I wouldn't be surprised if rumors were just that, rumors.

Edit 3: Here is haswell demo in 2012 Intel Dev meetup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wthvk50F5g Making it smaller, less power requirements, and slapping in a viable gpu. Sounds like too much all at once and it is going to fail somewhere but then again it's intel. They seem to be wanting to smash the APU market, laptop, and tablet markets all at the same time. For desktop PCs, I am not sure what their products would be like and perform like. I truly thing 2011 is the way to go right now. I would love to see what mobo that haswell is running on. lol!
December 19, 2012 9:55:31 PM

Praxeology said:
That's news to me can you provide a source for me because I am lazy and since you brought it up. If this is indeed the case then 2011 is literally worthless. There are 3 processors for it, z79 has problems with pci3.0 and those 3 processors working on it also so there would literally be no point in 2011 which came out in 2011 so it isn't quite old tech. Which!!!... Begs the question, assuming you are right and nothing is going forward on 2011, which doesn't make any sense, why in the hell did the come out with 2011?


Edit: http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1731717 I just did a little digging, I lied. All of this is rumor based, ivy-e could be on socket pineapples for all we know. As the rumor stands though ivy-e is coming out next year and haswell is even more of ghost on release date. Assuming these are right, I would still stand by my recommendation. 2011 has a good 5 years in it. If you are rocking a 940 you upgrade like me. This would be the better buy for you I think. But then again... Haswell nom nom. It comes down to this. Upgrade now for the better future proof build ie 2011 for only 50 bucks more with the right mobo pick. Or upgrade now for 1155/i5 build which has NO future. Option 3 of course is wait and see what's really going on here xD. But if you are going to upgrade 2011 is the way to go as you can get ivy-e if performance is decent enough to tide you over for haswall, if, when, and on what it actually comes out on.

Edit 2: The more I think about this the more it makes sense for haswell to come out on 2011. Why make another socket when they just released one? That just doesn't make good business sense. It's not like they needed to compete with AMD lol That fight is over, AMD is raping in the servers/apu market. So I wouldn't be surprised if rumors were just that, rumors.

Edit 3: Here is haswell demo in 2012 Intel Dev meetup. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wthvk50F5g Making it smaller, less power requirements, and slapping in a viable gpu. Sounds like too much all at once and it is going to fail somewhere but then again it's intel. They seem to be wanting to smash the APU market, laptop, and tablet markets all at the same time. For desktop PCs, I am not sure what their products would be like and perform like. I truly thing 2011 is the way to go right now. I would love to see what mobo that haswell is running on. lol!



This is one of the articles I found regarding Haswell. A few others I looked at and Wikipedia all seem to point at LGA 1150 being the new socket. The reasoning is the micro architecture changed too much to utlize socket 2011. They did take all the benefits that 2011 had over 1155 and added them into 1150.

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2012/2012121301_Details_o...

Last paragraph of the article mentions the sockets. Granted its not straight from Intel's mouth but there is a developer's conference going on in Japan so I imagine there may be something released from them soon.
December 19, 2012 9:58:52 PM

Kindredsouls said:
This is one of the articles I found regarding Haswell. A few others I looked at and Wikipedia all seem to point at LGA 1150 being the new socket. The reasoning is the micro architecture changed too much to utlize socket 2011. They did take all the benefits that 2011 had over 1155 and added them into 1150.

http://www.cpu-world.com/news_2012/2012121301_Details_o...

Last paragraph of the article mentions the sockets. Granted its not straight from Intel's mouth but there is a developer's conference going on in Japan so I imagine there may be something released from them soon.


Ya after some more digging it will be on 1150 I think.

2011 is good for ivy-e but not for has. So if you are playing acceptable frames, wait for haswell before you jump into the 2011 socket would be the wisest thing to do. If you cant resist the purdy hardware though 2011 is best choice. I think that about /thread this up. Some good brain-stormin!

To the OP, if you want a really nice case that you will never need to upgrade, take a look at my wish list build case/psu/fans. This is the best you can get!

http://secure.newegg.com/WishList/PublicWishDetail.aspx...
December 20, 2012 4:12:11 PM

I wouldn't say an i5 3570k on Z77 has no future. It's a great chip at a great price that can easily last several years. There aren't any chips or boards that will stay new for more than a year - if that long.

However since Haswell could be out as early as March, I'd agree that now is not the best time to upgrade to Ivy Bridge.
December 20, 2012 8:39:41 PM

Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm really really glad i posted this thread. I'm gonna hold off and see what the new gen cpu's are like in 2013. In the meantime, last question re: ssd's.


i currently have :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

if i was to get a 2nd and put in raid 0 would that be faster than getting one bigger ssd or not? I am looking at either getting a 2nd ssd or getting just another 250gb one.

December 20, 2012 10:36:13 PM

hatebreeder said:
Thanks for all of the feedback. I'm really really glad i posted this thread. I'm gonna hold off and see what the new gen cpu's are like in 2013. In the meantime, last question re: ssd's.


i currently have :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...

if i was to get a 2nd and put in raid 0 would that be faster than getting one bigger ssd or not? I am looking at either getting a 2nd ssd or getting just another 250gb one.


Great first buy picking the Corsair SSD line. You probably love it. Back when that was the best SSD on the market, pre samsung 840 basically, all of these SSD did not have trim support in raid. I know their force 3 series does, and the new vertex/samsung 840 does. So raiding them is a no go really though it would be substantially faster. In reality though, what more do you need? You probably boot windows in 10-20s. It takes you longer to type your password in when your hands are all cold from the winter lol. There might be a firmware update that now supports raid and trimm on these older drives since the new ones, but verify it. My ranked game in league just started, so as to your question specifically,

Yes it is faster then buying a newer one, much faster. Make sure you a raid card or a motherboard capable of raid 0. It is faster but will poop out on you if one dies. Meaning you lose data and must reformat back on to one. And if you already have data on that, I think you'd have to reformat either way to set up raid.

Getting a new one would be the samsung 840 pro, and that runs @ 269.99 for the 256GB. I'd wait personally unless you can verify the raid 0 on the older drives got firmware updates that support trim in raid like the new ones do. GL!
December 20, 2012 10:49:01 PM

Praxeology said:
Great first buy picking the Corsair SSD line. You probably love it. Back when that was the best SSD on the market, pre samsung 840 basically, all of these SSD did not have trim support in raid. I know their force 3 series does, and the new vertex/samsung 840 does. So raiding them is a no go really though it would be substantially faster. In reality though, what more do you need? You probably boot windows in 10-20s. It takes you longer to type your password in when your hands are all cold from the winter lol. There might be a firmware update that now supports raid and trimm on these older drives since the new ones, but verify it. My ranked game in league just started, so as to your question specifically,

Yes it is faster then buying a newer one, much faster. Make sure you a raid card or a motherboard capable of raid 0. It is faster but will poop out on you if one dies. Meaning you lose data and must reformat back on to one. And if you already have data on that, I think you'd have to reformat either way to set up raid.

Getting a new one would be the samsung 840 pro, and that runs @ 269.99 for the 256GB. I'd wait personally unless you can verify the raid 0 on the older drives got firmware updates that support trim in raid like the new ones do. GL!



most of that went over my head.
December 20, 2012 11:27:16 PM

hatebreeder said:
most of that went over my head.


Over time your SSD gets worn down through constant deleting, and writing of files. Like installing software, and then uninstalling software. SSD store data in blocks of memory, tons and tons of blocks of memory. These blocks, when filled up, need to be erased to write new stuff in them. This constant erasing/writing eventually kills the block. Kill enough blocks and boom, paperweight. Or some kind of magic like that. TRIM is a command for SSD that windows 7 has built into that manages what blocks are getting data written in them, and whats blocks aren't. Essentially instead of going to block a (which has data on it, erasing it, and then writing some new stuff) trim command says forget a, it would be more efficient to just write this new data you requested over in block h, which has no data on it. It guides the writing/deleting cycle on the SSD memory blocks to last the longest. Write into unused blocks, before deleting. This helps with SSD lifespan. When you raided SSD in the past, trim wouldn't work. That has been fixed, and I just looked at the newegg link and it says supports raid so you should be good to go. My only question is did it always support raid or is it from a firmware update. Meaning the one you have right now, might not support raid without a firmware update. The new one you might buy will, but yours might not without a firmware update. Its like flashing a bios. A new processor comes out you want to upgrade to. Your ASUS motherboard supports it with a bio update to version 2281. But your bio version is 2280. If your friend was buying your exact motherboard he wouldn't need to update, because ASUS updated their product to bio 2281 for all new buyers of the motherboard you have. Your board will require you to manual update before you can get that new processor installed. Does that make sense?
December 21, 2012 2:20:11 AM

Praxeology said:
Over time your SSD gets worn down through constant deleting, and writing of files. Like installing software, and then uninstalling software. SSD store data in blocks of memory, tons and tons of blocks of memory. These blocks, when filled up, need to be erased to write new stuff in them. This constant erasing/writing eventually kills the block. Kill enough blocks and boom, paperweight. Or some kind of magic like that. TRIM is a command for SSD that windows 7 has built into that manages what blocks are getting data written in them, and whats blocks aren't. Essentially instead of going to block a (which has data on it, erasing it, and then writing some new stuff) trim command says forget a, it would be more efficient to just write this new data you requested over in block h, which has no data on it. It guides the writing/deleting cycle on the SSD memory blocks to last the longest. Write into unused blocks, before deleting. This helps with SSD lifespan. When you raided SSD in the past, trim wouldn't work. That has been fixed, and I just looked at the newegg link and it says supports raid so you should be good to go. My only question is did it always support raid or is it from a firmware update. Meaning the one you have right now, might not support raid without a firmware update. The new one you might buy will, but yours might not without a firmware update. Its like flashing a bios. A new processor comes out you want to upgrade to. Your ASUS motherboard supports it with a bio update to version 2281. But your bio version is 2280. If your friend was buying your exact motherboard he wouldn't need to update, because ASUS updated their product to bio 2281 for all new buyers of the motherboard you have. Your board will require you to manual update before you can get that new processor installed. Does that make sense?




i totally get how SSDs work and how trim works to an extent.

Let me make sure i get the rest of it:
The only way to raid two SSD's and have it be beneficial is if both drives support the trim command. However my MOBO would need to support trim as well.
I get that the new SSD is trim enabled out of the box and my old one may be however it may need a firmware update first to support trim.
My mobo needs a firmware update to support trim.


Lets say i can get all that done. How does trim work? is it just a setting i check in drive management or something like that or is it something i have to do periodically similar to defragging?
December 21, 2012 2:48:29 AM

hatebreeder said:
i totally get how SSDs work and how trim works to an extent.

Let me make sure i get the rest of it:
The only way to raid two SSD's and have it be beneficial is if both drives support the trim command. However my MOBO would need to support trim as well.
I get that the new SSD is trim enabled out of the box and my old one may be however it may need a firmware update first to support trim.
My mobo needs a firmware update to support trim.


Lets say i can get all that done. How does trim work? is it just a setting i check in drive management or something like that or is it something i have to do periodically similar to defragging?


The only way to raid two SSD and have trim support on both of them* is if trim is supported in RAID. That new one is, I am unsure if your older one does because the support for trim in raid is fairly recent as in like 2 months recent. Your motherboard on the other hand has nothing to do with trim, as its more software/firmware related to the hardware in question IE SSD. So,

you get that new SSD and trim is enabled out of the box as windows enables it. Your old one right now has trim working just fine. The question is, when you combine the new one, which supports trim in raid, to the old one which might not support it in raid, will you have trim working on both drives. Worst case scenario, your older drive does not support trim in raid configuration, and needs a firmware update. Best case scenario it does. Your motherboard has nothing to do with it though, outside of the fact that you can not raid any HDD or SSD without a raid controller through PCI slots, or through integrated raid controllers. So step 1, link me your mobo or just link it yourself, and check for raid 1-10 in spec sheet. Step 2, figure out what firmware version you have help here and step 3 is to get in contact with corsair support / forums / google to ask this question: I have an older Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD and I am looking to purchase a second one. The newer one comes with raid support and I am not sure the original Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD I bought did. Did it always support raid or did that feature come later through a firmware update... ETC that should get the ball rolling in a forum/support ticket with people hopefully more knowledgeable than myself. Get your questions answered and you are good to go. Keep in mind that most people don't care about these things. They were raiding long before raid support and don't really care lol so you might have trouble getting the question answered. I personally am using 1 240GB SSD because at the time there was no trim support + raid 0 has possibility of data loss if 1 drive fails. Since I don't do backups, I just settled for one. And going back to your first question is it faster to get a bigger one or a raid 0 120gb + 120 gb, it is much faster in raid. Essentially double on specs, and pretty much double in real world. I read some reviews of the GT newegg link you sent and people who bought two report Avg Read is 935mbs. and Write is 950mbs, essentially double. Anyway, GL with all that and let me know if you can find an answer through google/support/what ever.

-Prax
December 21, 2012 3:23:08 AM

2843512,32,1533370 said:
The only way to raid two SSD and have trim support on both of them* is if trim is supported in RAID. That new one is, I am unsure if your older one does because the support for trim in raid is fairly recent as in like 2 months recent. Your motherboard on the other hand has nothing to do with trim, as its more software/firmware related to the hardware in question IE SSD. So,

you get that new SSD and trim is enabled out of the box as windows enables it. Your old one right now has trim working just fine. The question is, when you combine the new one, which supports trim in raid, to the old one which might not support it in raid, will you have trim working on both drives. Worst case scenario, your older drive does not support trim in raid configuration, and needs a firmware update. Best case scenario it does. Your motherboard has nothing to do with it though, outside of the fact that you can not raid any HDD or SSD without a raid controller through PCI slots, or through integrated raid controllers. So step 1, link me your mobo or just link it yourself, and check for raid 1-10 in spec sheet. Step 2, figure out what firmware version you have help here and step 3 is to get in contact with corsair support / forums / google to ask this question: I have an older Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD and I am looking to purchase a second one. The newer one comes with raid support and I am not sure the original Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD I bought did. Did it always support raid or did that feature come later through a firmware update... ETC that should get the ball rolling in a forum/support ticket with people hopefully more knowledgeable than myself. Get your questions answered and you are good to go. Keep in mind that most people don't care about these things. They were raiding long before raid support and don't really care lol so you might have trouble getting the question answered. I personally am using 1 240GB SSD because at the time there was no trim support + raid 0 has possibility of data loss if 1 drive fails. Since I don't do backups, I just settled for one. And going back to your first question is it faster to get a bigger one or a raid 0 120gb + 120 gb, it is much faster in raid. Essentially double on specs, and pretty much double in real world. I read some reviews of the GT newegg link you sent and people who bought two report Avg Read is 935mbs. and Write is 950mbs, essentially double. Anyway, GL with all that and let me know if you can find an answer through google/support/what ever.


The older one was purchased in December 2011 so I'm sure its gonna need the firmware update if there is one available for it.

Here is my mobo and what i found:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
(SATA RAID 0/1/5/10)

As far as my current sdd and firmware version. i went to that page whoever its in german or something. I have started a new thread in the corsair forums, will report back asap. thanks again!

December 21, 2012 3:42:41 AM

hatebreeder said:
2843512,32,1533370 said:
The only way to raid two SSD and have trim support on both of them* is if trim is supported in RAID. That new one is, I am unsure if your older one does because the support for trim in raid is fairly recent as in like 2 months recent. Your motherboard on the other hand has nothing to do with trim, as its more software/firmware related to the hardware in question IE SSD. So,

you get that new SSD and trim is enabled out of the box as windows enables it. Your old one right now has trim working just fine. The question is, when you combine the new one, which supports trim in raid, to the old one which might not support it in raid, will you have trim working on both drives. Worst case scenario, your older drive does not support trim in raid configuration, and needs a firmware update. Best case scenario it does. Your motherboard has nothing to do with it though, outside of the fact that you can not raid any HDD or SSD without a raid controller through PCI slots, or through integrated raid controllers. So step 1, link me your mobo or just link it yourself, and check for raid 1-10 in spec sheet. Step 2, figure out what firmware version you have help here and step 3 is to get in contact with corsair support / forums / google to ask this question: I have an older Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD and I am looking to purchase a second one. The newer one comes with raid support and I am not sure the original Corsair Force Series GT 120GB SSD I bought did. Did it always support raid or did that feature come later through a firmware update... ETC that should get the ball rolling in a forum/support ticket with people hopefully more knowledgeable than myself. Get your questions answered and you are good to go. Keep in mind that most people don't care about these things. They were raiding long before raid support and don't really care lol so you might have trouble getting the question answered. I personally am using 1 240GB SSD because at the time there was no trim support + raid 0 has possibility of data loss if 1 drive fails. Since I don't do backups, I just settled for one. And going back to your first question is it faster to get a bigger one or a raid 0 120gb + 120 gb, it is much faster in raid. Essentially double on specs, and pretty much double in real world. I read some reviews of the GT newegg link you sent and people who bought two report Avg Read is 935mbs. and Write is 950mbs, essentially double. Anyway, GL with all that and let me know if you can find an answer through google/support/what ever.


The older one was purchased in December 2011 so I'm sure its gonna need the firmware update if there is one available for it.

Here is my mobo and what i found:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
(SATA RAID 0/1/5/10)

As far as my current sdd and firmware version. i went to that page whoever its in german or something. I have started a new thread in the corsair forums, will report back asap. thanks again!
said:


Alright, you had my hardware brain dripping for information so I started googling it in the middle of my next generation episode (Almost done with the series finally,) and it turns out that I was wrong. Raid 0 Trim is supported ONLY with the intel series 7 motherboard chipsets! Meaning your mobo is running the x58 series = intel series 5 chipset. You would need a z77/h77 etc, something in the 7s in order to do this. SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSo if you do raid 0 these things trim support won't be possible. Here is a good discussion on it to clear you up on the question, raid or don't raid without trim. http://www.techpowerup.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1625... Boy its hard to find specific answers on this topic, no one knows ***.

Edit* http://www.tomshardware.com/news/TRIM-RST-RAID-0-SSD-7-... Finally something! Just got to get the right words. That comes up with "intel series 7 raid 0 trim support. Should be a good read, as are all the other tabs I got open lol. But finding out that series 7 was the pickle.

Edit 2* The interwebs are fast at work and have trim raid up on some 6k series chipsets @ http://www.anandtech.com/show/6477/trim-raid0-ssd-array...

Edit 3* http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/294743-32-trim-raid-c... Third post has an interesting idea for none trim support. Leave your comp on once a week overnight and let garbage cleaner do the work while you are sleeping to make up for the lack of trim. Not sure how well that would actually work but an interesting thought.

Final Thoughts: I really don't have anything else to add, I just finishing reading all my tabs and everything I got above pretty much explains it. Z68/P67 can support raid + trim with a little tweaking through the anandtech guide. The Intel 7 series chipsets combined with Intel's software RST: Rapid Storage Technology Versions 11.0+ allow you to take any SSD, raid them together, and still run trim. Apparently the issue was the Chipset not being able to properly communicate with the SSD regarding the trim command from windows. Through some Intel computer magic, if you have a board that can support it, download the software, and you should be up and running with trim support as I understand it. I truly believe this is /thread, I have beaten it to a dead horse.

Back to the next gen episode, hope you learned something, I know I did,

-Praxeology!
December 21, 2012 4:11:14 AM

here is what i got for answers:

1.) how do i find out if my old one is trim enabled.

2.) if it's not, do i just update to the newest firmware version and it will be?


Answers:
1. All Force drives support TRIM.

2. Update the firmware BEFORE it's in RAID.
December 21, 2012 4:14:54 AM

hatebreeder said:
here is what i got for answers:

1.) how do i find out if my old one is trim enabled.

2.) if it's not, do i just update to the newest firmware version and it will be?


Answers:
1. All Force drives support TRIM.

2. Update the firmware BEFORE it's in RAID.


There is a CMD command you can run in windows to check for sure, but rest assured its running. Windows 7 detects SSD and turns it on. Don't defrag and turn off windows indexing features and you're good to go. Read that above post and it should explain the problem.

TL;DR version, you do not have access to trim in raid without having a newer motherboard with an z77 chipset. Without it, your raid config will have to rely on garbage collector and will probably be fine without trim anyway. Here is a source to be 100percent sure if you'd like, though read the last post http://social.technet.microsoft.com/Forums/en-US/w7itpr...
December 21, 2012 4:22:49 AM

Makes sense for the most part. sorry i didn't see you replied before my last post. I may just buy a bigger ssd and run just that and give my girl this ssd when i upgrade my mobo,chip,ram in the future. I appreciate your help a lot man.
December 21, 2012 4:25:15 AM

hatebreeder said:
Makes sense for the most part. sorry i didn't see you replied before my last post. I may just buy a bigger ssd and run just that and give my girl this ssd when i upgrade my mobo,chip,ram in the future. I appreciate your help a lot man.


NP, that sounds like the best plan. You got maybe another 6 month wait before we can set you up a has build on 1150, and then you can get raid 0 working properly with trim, assuming it works for the new 1150/ new chipset that will come with it. Always with the changes lol.
!