D70 vs 10D

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Hello,

I have been contemplating the purchase of a Nikon D70 for the past 3 or 4
months, and it looks like I am going to be ready to purchase within the next
week or so. I have noticed that you can usually get a pretty good price on
a used 10D, sometimes with a couple of fairly good lenses on eBay. Just
yesterday, a 10D and a 28-135 IS went for $1000. How would this camera
compare to a D70 with the 18-70 lens, say if the Canon had a 28-105 USM?
Obviously, the 28-105 is not as wide, but what would be gained going with
the Nikon? What would be gained with the Canon? I cannot afford the 20D
and a good lens, and I refuse to use the kit lens with the Canons. I am a
former videographer and owned a D1 when they first came out. I also had a
Nikon AFS 17-35 f2.8, which was an outstanding lens. I will use the camera
for product shots for my website using studio lighting and a tripod and also
for a general camera for family and vacations.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Tim

--
Tim & Christine Walsh
Arizona Tribal Collectors
www.tribalcollectors.com

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <tBTle.1239$fp.852@fed1read05>, Timothy Walsh
<tribalcollectors@tribalcollectors.com> writes
>Hello,
>
>I have been contemplating the purchase of a Nikon D70 for the past 3 or 4
>months, and it looks like I am going to be ready to purchase within the next
>week or so. I have noticed that you can usually get a pretty good price on
>a used 10D, sometimes with a couple of fairly good lenses on eBay. Just
>yesterday, a 10D and a 28-135 IS went for $1000. How would this camera
>compare to a D70 with the 18-70 lens, say if the Canon had a 28-105 USM?
>Obviously, the 28-105 is not as wide, but what would be gained going with
>the Nikon? What would be gained with the Canon? I cannot afford the 20D
>and a good lens, and I refuse to use the kit lens with the Canons. I am a
>former videographer and owned a D1 when they first came out. I also had a
>Nikon AFS 17-35 f2.8, which was an outstanding lens. I will use the camera
>for product shots for my website using studio lighting and a tripod and also
>for a general camera for family and vacations.
>
>Any help is greatly appreciated.
>
>Tim
>
You may not find many people who have useful experience of both cameras
- and I certainly don't. However, FWIW, I can say two things:

(1) I have had a 10D for almost 2 years and have found it very good
indeed - and I am quite fussy about camera quality (my film cameras
include EOS 1n/1nRS, Contax G2, Mamiya 6 and Linhof 5x4). Build quality
is good, and the quality of the pictures is a little better than I
expected provided I use RAW and do all the sharpening in software. Noise
is surprisingly low, even in 30 second ISO 1600 micrographs I have done.
However, it is fair to say that most of the reports I have heard about
the D70 have been equally good. The major drawback - the lack of decent
affordable very wide angle lenses - is a problem which I believe is
common to both.

(2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a
conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or
photomicrography). The 10D (along with all other Canon SLRs I have
tried) meters quite happily with no signal from a lens - though you may
need to use some (fairly consistent) compensation. The D70 - so I am
informed by a friend who is a well respected professional
photomicrographer - is a real pain to use in this way. In fact he found
it so painful that last time I spoke to him he was planning to sell a
lifetime collection of Nikon equipment to fund the purchase of a 1Ds Mk
2.

I suspect that, if you do not intend to stray into macro/micro work,
then whichever system you have lenses for, or (if none) whichever feels
better in the hand, will serve your needs very well.

David
--
David Littlewood

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
newsD46OwCynHmCFwTw@dlittlewood.co.uk...
> In article <tBTle.1239$fp.852@fed1read05>, Timothy Walsh
> <tribalcollectors@tribalcollectors.com> writes
>>Hello,
>>
>>I have been contemplating the purchase of a Nikon D70 for the past 3 or 4
>>months, and it looks like I am going to be ready to purchase within the
>>next
>>week or so. I have noticed that you can usually get a pretty good price
>>on
>>a used 10D, sometimes with a couple of fairly good lenses on eBay. Just
>>yesterday, a 10D and a 28-135 IS went for $1000. How would this camera
>>compare to a D70 with the 18-70 lens, say if the Canon had a 28-105 USM?
>>Obviously, the 28-105 is not as wide, but what would be gained going with
>>the Nikon? What would be gained with the Canon? I cannot afford the 20D
>>and a good lens, and I refuse to use the kit lens with the Canons. I am a
>>former videographer and owned a D1 when they first came out. I also had a
>>Nikon AFS 17-35 f2.8, which was an outstanding lens. I will use the
>>camera
>>for product shots for my website using studio lighting and a tripod and
>>also
>>for a general camera for family and vacations.
>>
>>Any help is greatly appreciated.
>>
>>Tim
>>
> You may not find many people who have useful experience of both cameras -
> and I certainly don't. However, FWIW, I can say two things:
>
> (1) I have had a 10D for almost 2 years and have found it very good
> indeed - and I am quite fussy about camera quality (my film cameras
> include EOS 1n/1nRS, Contax G2, Mamiya 6 and Linhof 5x4). Build quality is
> good, and the quality of the pictures is a little better than I expected
> provided I use RAW and do all the sharpening in software. Noise is
> surprisingly low, even in 30 second ISO 1600 micrographs I have done.
> However, it is fair to say that most of the reports I have heard about the
> D70 have been equally good. The major drawback - the lack of decent
> affordable very wide angle lenses - is a problem which I believe is common
> to both.
>
> (2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a
> conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or
> photomicrography). The 10D (along with all other Canon SLRs I have tried)
> meters quite happily with no signal from a lens - though you may need to
> use some (fairly consistent) compensation. The D70 - so I am informed by a
> friend who is a well respected professional photomicrographer - is a real
> pain to use in this way. In fact he found it so painful that last time I
> spoke to him he was planning to sell a lifetime collection of Nikon
> equipment to fund the purchase of a 1Ds Mk 2.

David, Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all?
Thanks.


> I suspect that, if you do not intend to stray into macro/micro work, then
> whichever system you have lenses for, or (if none) whichever feels better
> in the hand, will serve your needs very well.
>
> David
> --
> David Littlewood

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <7J5me.4887$BR4.3724@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
Pete D <no@email.com> wrote:
>
>"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>newsD46OwCynHmCFwTw@dlittlewood.co.uk...
>> In article <tBTle.1239$fp.852@fed1read05>, Timothy Walsh
>> <tribalcollectors@tribalcollectors.com> writes

[ ... ]

>> (2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a
>> conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or
>> photomicrography). The 10D (along with all other Canon SLRs I have tried)
>> meters quite happily with no signal from a lens - though you may need to
>> use some (fairly consistent) compensation. The D70 - so I am informed by a
>> friend who is a well respected professional photomicrographer - is a real
>> pain to use in this way. In fact he found it so painful that last time I
>> spoke to him he was planning to sell a lifetime collection of Nikon
>> equipment to fund the purchase of a 1Ds Mk 2.
>
>David, Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all?

As an owner and frequent user of a D70, I can testify that it
cannot do stop down metering at all. All metering is disabled when the
camera does not sense a CPU in the lens. It even locks out the exposure
button, unless you switch to the 'M' (manual exposure) mode.

For things which are not changing rapidly, it is possible to
take a few trial exposures, and adjust by first what the LCD looks like,
and when you get closer, by the histogram which it will happily display
for you.

But for quickly changing scenes, (where stop-down metering is
awkward anyway), you are stuck. Handheld meter is about what you need.
(Of course, I've shot lots of images before built-in meters were
available, but newer users may not have that experience -- or the
hand-held meter.)

You *can* do metering with another lens, and then switch to the
one which does not support metering, remembering the exposure values
which the other lens gave.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message
news6OdnWJzX41gcgXfRVn-gg@speakeasy.net...
> Pete D wrote:
>>
>> Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all?
>
> None.
> Manual mode and check the preview is the only option. It is not that hard
> with digital though.
>

Of course not and with a bit of practice it would become second nature, bit
like when I run manual for many indoor shots, I just know what sort of
settings will work (with an older fully manual flash I have anyway), thanks
guys. I assume this has not been added in the S or the latest software
update.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:81AVDaHQCQmCFwG$@dlittlewood.co.uk...
> In article <7J5me.4887$BR4.3724@news-server.bigpond.net.au>, Pete D
> <no@email.com> writes
>>
>>"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>newsD46OwCynHmCFwTw@dlittlewood.co.uk...
>>>
>>> (2) The one area where the Canon wins hands down is in working without a
>>> conventional lens fitted (as for example in photomacrography or
>>> photomicrography). The 10D (along with all other Canon SLRs I have
>>> tried)
>>> meters quite happily with no signal from a lens - though you may need to
>>> use some (fairly consistent) compensation. The D70 - so I am informed by
>>> a
>>> friend who is a well respected professional photomicrographer - is a
>>> real
>>> pain to use in this way. In fact he found it so painful that last time I
>>> spoke to him he was planning to sell a lifetime collection of Nikon
>>> equipment to fund the purchase of a 1Ds Mk 2.
>>
>>David, Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all?
>>Thanks.
>>
> I have little direct experience of Nikon bodies. IIRC I was told that
> there is a kludge which allows some kind of photography with a
> non-metering lens, but I don't know what it is, only that it is not
> convenient.
>
> David
> --
> David Littlewood

Does reduce the usability of older manual lenses like on the Pentax D and Ds
and I assume the Canons?

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"DoN. Nichols" <dnichols@d-and-d.com> wrote in message
news7bilm$q67$1@Fuego.d-and-d.com...
> In article <s27me.4957$BR4.350@news-server.bigpond.net.au>,
> Pete D <no@email.com> wrote:
>>
>>"Paul Furman" <paul-@-edgehill.net> wrote in message
>>news6OdnWJzX41gcgXfRVn-gg@speakeasy.net...
>>> Pete D wrote:
>>>>
>>>> Does that mean the D70 does not do stop down metering at all?
>>>
>>> None.
>>> Manual mode and check the preview is the only option. It is not that
>>> hard
>>> with digital though.
>>>
>>
>>Of course not and with a bit of practice it would become second nature,
>>bit
>>like when I run manual for many indoor shots, I just know what sort of
>>settings will work (with an older fully manual flash I have anyway),
>
> Yep -- that's the way. And far better with the feedback from
> the display than the days (pre light meter) of guessing the exposure by
> the time of day and the speed of the film -- and not knowing the results
> until it is developed. :-)
>
>>
>> thanks
>>guys. I assume this has not been added in the S or the latest software
>>update.
>
> You mean stop-down metering? I believe not for the D70s, and I
> certainly can't find it on the firmware upgrade for the D70.
>
> There has been some speculation on this newsgroup recently
> concerning ways which Nikon *might* have done it, if they so desired.
> But they did not -- at least yet. We can continue to hope.
>
> One consideration might be the time that the depth-of-field
> preview needs to be active for stop-down metering (considering that they
> only support mirror lock-up for camera sensor cleaning, and that is
> ended *only* by turning the camera off. They warn to only do this with
> an AC power supply -- though most are willing to do it with a
> freshly-charged battery.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.

Seriously Nikon should have included both mirror lockup and stop down
metering in the D70s, the D70 deserves it.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 29 May 2005 18:33:02 -0000, Bubbabob
<rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote:

>"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote:
>
>
>> Seriously Nikon should have included both mirror lockup and stop down
>> metering in the D70s, the D70 deserves it.
>>
>>
>>
>
>Mirror lockup is not physically possible in this camera due to the
>interlocking costruction of the shutter and mirror. Too bad but true. Stop

To me the only two lacking points are the lack of a mirror lock up for
shooting and a cable remote. Although the IR remote works well, it
does not work well from behind the camera. You can get by though, but
sticking a reflector that can see you and the sensor at the same time.
It works, but then you need to be within a few feet.

>down metering IS possible and should be implemented. They should also
>provide for the ability to store user curves on a subdirectory of the CF
>card so that you could choose a particular curve in the field. This would,
>however, remove the main reason that people buy their horrible Nikon

Not a reason to purchase Nikon Capture at all. Use Photoshop or one
of the other good image processing programs.

>Capture software for $100 so don't hold your breath.

I started with one of the very first D70s out. I still don't have
Nikon Capture.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David Littlewood <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in
news:Xe2vp3AKSamCFwgl@dlittlewood.co.uk:

> Certainly, using old manual focus lenses is quite feasible on Canon
> film and digital SLR bodies. There is a very interesting article in
> this week's issue of Amateur Photographer (UK mag) by someone who uses
> M42 lenses on an EOS 10D.

I have also read about people using Nikon manual lenses on Canon D-SLRs
with the help of a simple adapter plate. The lenses still focus to
infinity. The metering works (unlike with the consumer and prosumer Nikon
D-SLRs) fine. Obviously no AF, but potentially some good sharp pictures
could be had from some very reasonably priced lenses.

Unfortunately the Canon FD lenses seem to be among the hardest to utilize
on any new camera.


--
Mark Heyes (New Zealand)
See my pics at www.gigatech.co.nz (last updated 3-May-05)
"There are 10 types of people, those that
understand binary and those that don't"

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 28 May 2005 23:19:19 +0000, Pete D wrote:

>> You *can* do metering with another lens, and then switch to the one
>> which does not support metering, remembering the exposure values which
>> the other lens gave.
>>
>> Enjoy,
>> DoN.
>
> So it will do "full manual", thanks.

I will indeed. You can also plop a meter onto the accessory shoe. I have
an old Leica MC meter that works fine (although it does look a bit weird!).

--
?