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Next price break on Compact Flash?

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Anonymous
May 29, 2005 4:32:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Anyone have any idea when the next break on CF I prices might come?
Right now, I'm looking at $146.95 for a 2 gig SanDisk, while the
Hitachi CF II microdrive in 2 gig is $119.95. I'm a touch leery of
anything that small with moving parts, as well as not being sure how
well it will work on my PC and Pentax *istD.
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 12:44:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 29 May 2005 12:32:49 -0700, Charlie Self <charliediy@aol.com> wrote:
> Anyone have any idea when the next break on CF I prices might come?
> Right now, I'm looking at $146.95 for a 2 gig SanDisk, while the
> Hitachi CF II microdrive in 2 gig is $119.95. I'm a touch leery of
> anything that small with moving parts, as well as not being sure how
> well it will work on my PC and Pentax *istD.

If CF prices move the way DRAM prices do -- which I suspect is the
case -- then the price will fluctuate more or less continuously. So
I wouldn't wait for a price drop if I were you.

Opinions differ on microdrive vs. solid state. I prefer solid
state. I don't like moving parts either, and microdrives are said
to consume more power. And some cameras won't accept firmware
upgrades from microdrives.

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 2:03:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ben Rosengart <br+rpdss@panix.com> wrote:

> On 29 May 2005 12:32:49 -0700, Charlie Self <charliediy@aol.com> wrote:
>> Anyone have any idea when the next break on CF I prices might come?
>> Right now, I'm looking at $146.95 for a 2 gig SanDisk, while the
>> Hitachi CF II microdrive in 2 gig is $119.95. I'm a touch leery of
>> anything that small with moving parts, as well as not being sure how
>> well it will work on my PC and Pentax *istD.
>
> If CF prices move the way DRAM prices do -- which I suspect is the
> case -- then the price will fluctuate more or less continuously. So
> I wouldn't wait for a price drop if I were you.
>
> Opinions differ on microdrive vs. solid state. I prefer solid
> state. I don't like moving parts either, and microdrives are said
> to consume more power. And some cameras won't accept firmware
> upgrades from microdrives.
>

As someone, I've forgotten who, recently said here: "I like microdrives.
When you drop them you don't have to pick them up."
Related resources
Anonymous
May 31, 2005 2:03:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Bubbabob wrote:

> As someone, I've forgotten who, recently said here: "I like microdrives.
> When you drop them you don't have to pick them up."

<Snicker> That is one of the best retorts I've seen on this issue!

--
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-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:11:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ben Rosengart wrote:
> On 29 May 2005 12:32:49 -0700, Charlie Self <charliediy@aol.com> wrote:
> > Anyone have any idea when the next break on CF I prices might come?
> > Right now, I'm looking at $146.95 for a 2 gig SanDisk, while the
> > Hitachi CF II microdrive in 2 gig is $119.95. I'm a touch leery of
> > anything that small with moving parts, as well as not being sure how
> > well it will work on my PC and Pentax *istD.
>
> If CF prices move the way DRAM prices do -- which I suspect is the
> case -- then the price will fluctuate more or less continuously. So
> I wouldn't wait for a price drop if I were you.
>
> Opinions differ on microdrive vs. solid state. I prefer solid
> state. I don't like moving parts either, and microdrives are said
> to consume more power. And some cameras won't accept firmware
> upgrades from microdrives.
>

The firmware upgrade part is no problem--I've got a 1 gig CF, two 256s
and a 128. For a variety of reasons, I want a 2 gig to add to the
array. It does seem like Bubbabob's later comment agrees with my idea
that microdrives aren't for me, as you also state. I'm fairly clumsy
with small items, which isn't a problem on grass, I guess, but is a
problem on concrete or macadam, surfaces I'm more likely to encounter
when shooting.
June 1, 2005 3:39:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Bubbabob" <rnorton@_remove_this_thuntek.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9666A3552A461dilfjelfoiwepofujsdk@216.168.3.30...
> Ben Rosengart <br+rpdss@panix.com> wrote:
>
>> On 29 May 2005 12:32:49 -0700, Charlie Self <charliediy@aol.com> wrote:
>>> Anyone have any idea when the next break on CF I prices might come?
>>> Right now, I'm looking at $146.95 for a 2 gig SanDisk, while the
>>> Hitachi CF II microdrive in 2 gig is $119.95. I'm a touch leery of
>>> anything that small with moving parts, as well as not being sure how
>>> well it will work on my PC and Pentax *istD.
>>
>> If CF prices move the way DRAM prices do -- which I suspect is the
>> case -- then the price will fluctuate more or less continuously. So
>> I wouldn't wait for a price drop if I were you.
>>
>> Opinions differ on microdrive vs. solid state. I prefer solid
>> state. I don't like moving parts either, and microdrives are said
>> to consume more power. And some cameras won't accept firmware
>> upgrades from microdrives.
>>
>
> As someone, I've forgotten who, recently said here: "I like microdrives.
> When you drop them you don't have to pick them up."

Cute, but probably not true. Most hard drives will accept a substantial
mechanical
shock (40g, I believe, when not in operation). My three have worked
flawlessly.
You can currently get the 2GB Hitachi for about $70 (after a rebate) and I
suspect
the price of the 4GB Hitachi (what I use) will be coming down as they've
(Hitachi)
has come out with a 6GB model.

It probably pays to be aware of the limitations of all your choices. The
microdrives
may be more prone to damage from mechanical shock (it can still break bond
wires
and solder joints on solid state memory) and the solid state cards have more
ESD
sensitive (static shock) parts. And with either, you're just lucky if it
works after
going through a washing machine (or have a gentle washing machine and
de-ionized
water).

George
June 1, 2005 3:42:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Charlie Self" <charliediy@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117613513.124072.236940@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Ben Rosengart wrote:
>> On 29 May 2005 12:32:49 -0700, Charlie Self <charliediy@aol.com> wrote:
>> > Anyone have any idea when the next break on CF I prices might come?
>> > Right now, I'm looking at $146.95 for a 2 gig SanDisk, while the
>> > Hitachi CF II microdrive in 2 gig is $119.95. I'm a touch leery of
>> > anything that small with moving parts, as well as not being sure how
>> > well it will work on my PC and Pentax *istD.
>>
>> If CF prices move the way DRAM prices do -- which I suspect is the
>> case -- then the price will fluctuate more or less continuously. So
>> I wouldn't wait for a price drop if I were you.
>>
>> Opinions differ on microdrive vs. solid state. I prefer solid
>> state. I don't like moving parts either, and microdrives are said
>> to consume more power. And some cameras won't accept firmware
>> upgrades from microdrives.
>>
>
> The firmware upgrade part is no problem--I've got a 1 gig CF, two 256s
> and a 128. For a variety of reasons, I want a 2 gig to add to the
> array. It does seem like Bubbabob's later comment agrees with my idea
> that microdrives aren't for me, as you also state. I'm fairly clumsy
> with small items, which isn't a problem on grass, I guess, but is a
> problem on concrete or macadam, surfaces I'm more likely to encounter
> when shooting.
>

One last point comes to mind...with a microdrive, you are apt to have MORE
storage space which translates into less handling of the card and less wear
on
the connectors (in camera). I assume most people are talking about dropping
a card when it is OUT of the camera...if you drop it while it is IN the
camera,
you likely aren't worried about the CARD!

George
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 3:54:23 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

george wrote:

>>As someone, I've forgotten who, recently said here: "I like microdrives.
>>When you drop them you don't have to pick them up."
>
>
> Cute, but probably not true. Most hard drives will accept a substantial
> mechanical
> shock (40g, I believe, when not in operation). My three have worked
> flawlessly.

Others will say they've had 2 out of 3 die. That's how probability
works. Between handling, use and luck, microdrives are simply less
likely to survive.

I posted here some time ago showing how one of the manufacturers had
made substantial redesigns to their microdrive mechanics in order to
reduce damage from shock and handling. These included reversing the
drive front to back in order to reduce "finger pinch" induced failures,
and mounting the entire inards with an offset angle to make room for the
addition of corner rubber bumpers to absorb shock when dropped.

http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6...

So, there has always been a problem. They've improved, but microdrive
will never be as reliable as a solid state memory devices. I wish they
were, as it would drive down the price of solid state.

Cheers,
Alan.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 4:04:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

george wrote:

> One last point comes to mind...with a microdrive, you are apt to have MORE
> storage space which translates into less handling of the card and less wear
> on

For equivalent sized devices, I don't see how (minor differences in
actual storage space notwithstanding). In any case, most people don't
shoot to the capacity of the drive most of the time. (It's happened to
me once in 3 months).

As another poster pointed out, some cameras do not do firmware updates
from microdrive (I don't know why, perhaps it uses the flash memory to
make a firmware "image" prior to updating the camera flash memory, and
this would be difficult/impossible to do on a microdrive).

> the connectors (in camera). I assume most people are talking about dropping
> a card when it is OUT of the camera.

I haven't removed the card from the camera except to see if it was hot a
couple times. I tranfer with the camera USB. This happy state will end
when I buy a 2 or 4 GB card in the not distant future. Solid state.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
June 1, 2005 4:32:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 7kmb2$t0t$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> george wrote:
>
>> One last point comes to mind...with a microdrive, you are apt to have
>> MORE
>> storage space which translates into less handling of the card and less
>> wear on
>
> For equivalent sized devices, I don't see how (minor differences in actual
> storage space notwithstanding). In any case, most people don't shoot to
> the capacity of the drive most of the time. (It's happened to me once in
> 3 months).
>
> As another poster pointed out, some cameras do not do firmware updates
> from microdrive (I don't know why, perhaps it uses the flash memory to
> make a firmware "image" prior to updating the camera flash memory, and
> this would be difficult/impossible to do on a microdrive).
>
That is true of my D70 (at least that is what Nikon states). I'd think that
it'd be
due to either the MD being too slow in transferring data (not true, as the
transfer
rate is the same as a standard speed solid state card) or possibly the MDs
might
do a thermal recalibrate during a transfer and it may need to occur at some
minimum constant rate rather than just average out to a particular rate.

>> the connectors (in camera). I assume most people are talking about
>> dropping
>> a card when it is OUT of the camera.
>
> I haven't removed the card from the camera except to see if it was hot a
> couple times. I tranfer with the camera USB. This happy state will end
> when I buy a 2 or 4 GB card in the not distant future. Solid state.
>
The 4GB cards are beginning to drop in price. If you have a USB 2.0
transfer
going on, you might not see much difference. BTW, you might also want to
make
sure your card reader can handle a microdrive to keep your future options
open.
Readers that do handle them don't cost more, so it is free to have choices
in the
future. (BTW, 4GB MDs are about $150 USD...obviously, the main advantage
is economic.)

Good luck,
George

> Cheers,
> Alan
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
June 1, 2005 4:35:24 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 7klng$qqc$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> george wrote:
>
>>>As someone, I've forgotten who, recently said here: "I like microdrives.
>>>When you drop them you don't have to pick them up."
>>
>>
>> Cute, but probably not true. Most hard drives will accept a substantial
>> mechanical
>> shock (40g, I believe, when not in operation). My three have worked
>> flawlessly.
>
> Others will say they've had 2 out of 3 die. That's how probability works.
> Between handling, use and luck, microdrives are simply less likely to
> survive.
>
> I posted here some time ago showing how one of the manufacturers had made
> substantial redesigns to their microdrive mechanics in order to reduce
> damage from shock and handling. These included reversing the drive front
> to back in order to reduce "finger pinch" induced failures, and mounting
> the entire inards with an offset angle to make room for the addition of
> corner rubber bumpers to absorb shock when dropped.
>
> http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6...
>
> So, there has always been a problem. They've improved, but microdrive
> will never be as reliable as a solid state memory devices. I wish they
> were, as it would drive down the price of solid state.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan.
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

I'd bet that most of the failures are the off-brand MDs, not the Hitachis.
After all,
look how many teens are abusing them daily in Ipods and Muvo2s without
failure.

George
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:07:08 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

george wrote:

>>http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6...

>
> I'd bet that most of the failures are the off-brand MDs, not the Hitachis.
> After all,
> look how many teens are abusing them daily in Ipods and Muvo2s without
> failure.

If Hitachi are doing the engineering changes, it's 'cause Hitachi are
getting the problems.

Suggest you read the caption under the photos in the article linked above.

Good luck,
Alan.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
June 1, 2005 5:46:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 7kpvs$h0a$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> george wrote:
>
>>>http://www.robgalbraith.com/bins/multi_page.asp?cid=7-6...
>
>>
>> I'd bet that most of the failures are the off-brand MDs, not the
>> Hitachis. After all,
>> look how many teens are abusing them daily in Ipods and Muvo2s without
>> failure.
>
> If Hitachi are doing the engineering changes, it's 'cause Hitachi are
> getting the problems.
>
> Suggest you read the caption under the photos in the article linked above.
>
> Good luck,
> Alan.
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

Sounds like the article is referring to old Hitachi drives (4GB) that were
never used in Ipods
and Muvo2s...the article keeps talking about 1GB drives and 340MB drives.
Since I first needed
DSLR memory (about a year and a half ago), I've never seen those sizes
offered new, only the 2GB,
4GB, and 6GB. I have heard of problems with the Magicstor MDs and I see
that Sony is making
microdrives, too...any word of their reliability?

In theory, solid state memory CAN be more reliable (and USUALLY is) than
anything requiring
moving parts (i.e., a disk drive)...but once again you need to consider the
environment and the handling.
The same heavy hand that destroys the head mechanism in a microdrive IS
sufficiently heavy handed
to break IC die bond wires and fine pitch solder joints with solid state
memory. Then, the memory
itself is usually CMOS technology which is quite susceptible to static shock
damage (and if you got
away with it once, you likely destroyed the protection diodes and the second
occurrence is fatal to the
device). Even though I have used some "caps" for emphasis, I really don't
care what people buy...
just make an informed decision and I wouldn't shy away from microdrives as
they don't require more
care than a good camera or lens. (Most of today's cameras and lenses
needn't be picked up either if
dropped on concrete.)

George

PS--Thanks for the link Alan. I hadn't seen that information before.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 10:20:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:
>
> As another poster pointed out, some cameras do not do firmware updates
> from microdrive (I don't know why, perhaps it uses the flash memory to
> make a firmware "image" prior to updating the camera flash memory, and
> this would be difficult/impossible to do on a microdrive).

I did my first firmware update on the D70 with a microdrive, now it
won't work. I'm convinced it's a payolla consiracy from the CF
manufacturers to imply MD isn't reliable enough for a critical task like
that.

: - )

(half serious)

But back to the point of this thread, anyone got a good source for cheap
large CF cards? I can actually fill my 2GB microdrive in a day's
shooting and I'm nervous about having only that one card.

--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 2:15:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Paul Furman wrote:

> But back to the point of this thread, anyone got a good source for cheap
> large CF cards? I can actually fill my 2GB microdrive in a day's
> shooting and I'm nervous about having only that one card.

I'm wondering if I'll go 2 GB or 4 GB ... not microdrive.

Here, they are simply not cheap. Probably worth a drive to Plattsburg
or Burlington on Saturday.

Cheers,
Alan



--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 12:50:25 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Charlie Self" <charliediy@aol.com> wrote:

> The firmware upgrade part is no problem--I've got a 1 gig CF, two 256s
> and a 128. For a variety of reasons, I want a 2 gig to add to the
> array. It does seem like Bubbabob's later comment agrees with my idea
> that microdrives aren't for me, as you also state. I'm fairly clumsy
> with small items, which isn't a problem on grass, I guess, but is a
> problem on concrete or macadam, surfaces I'm more likely to encounter
> when shooting.
>
>

Five foot drops to concrete or tile can go WAY over 40G.
!