Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Pentax rumours become truth: *istDL to come as low budget ..

Last response: in Digital Camera
Share
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:52:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
> Found today on a german website:
>
> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0



Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.

The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount de-featured
DSLR.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:52:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Amazon already have them for preordering.

"Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:D 7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
> Found today on a german website:
>
> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>
> Greets, Johannes.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:52:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>
> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:D 7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>> Found today on a german website:
>>
>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>
>
>
> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>
> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
> de-featured DSLR.

Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing? Another, what are the
others missing?
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 5:52:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Trapezium wrote:

> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount de-featured
> DSLR.

It may be what Pentax needs to keep less photography-serious Pentax lens
owners from running to Canon.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 6:27:56 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
news:zjine.9381$BR4.3460@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> "Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
> news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:D 7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>>> Found today on a german website:
>>>
>>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>>
>>
>>
>> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>>
>> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
>> de-featured DSLR.
>
> Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing?


As far as I understand, a the Pentaprism has been replaced by a
'pentamirror' and the AF system has been reduced from 11 points to three (a
la Olympus E300)

There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the Ds which, itself,
was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
digital equivalent of a box Brownie.





Another, what are the
> others missing?<

A Foveon sensor?
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 6:27:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Trapezium wrote:

> There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the Ds which, itself,
> was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
> digital equivalent of a box Brownie.

Sounds like a winner to me. Perhaps Kodak should take notice now that
they've killed their SLR.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 9:04:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <3g5rfrFarkh2U1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>
>"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>news:zjine.9381$BR4.3460@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>
>> "Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
>> news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>>>
>>> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:D 7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>>>> Found today on a german website:
>>>>
>>>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>>>
>>> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
>>> de-featured DSLR.
>>
>> Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing?
>
>
>As far as I understand, a the Pentaprism has been replaced by a
>'pentamirror' and the AF system has been reduced from 11 points to three (a
>la Olympus E300)
>
>There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the DS which, itself,
>was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>digital equivalent of a box Brownie.


"almost certainly" ?

Only if the marketplace demands it. This camera is aimed at the price
point the Japanese market seems to want - an eventual US street price of
under $600, body only.

The next predicted K-mount body is a feature-rich upgrade to the *ist-D
(I'm betting it will be called the *ist-Dn), around a year from now.

The DS (and, now, the DL) aren't aimed at existing SLR users - they are
targetted at the folks moving up from a digital point-and-shoot. That's
the only area in the digital camera marketplace where there is growth,
and an opportunity for Pentax to capture a little more market share.

Pentax may be going bankrupt, but it won't be beacause of the *ist-DL
June 1, 2005 11:04:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>
> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:D 7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>> Found today on a german website:
>>
>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>
>
>
> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>
> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
> de-featured DSLR.
Actually that is what the market is calling for. The biggest growth in dSLR
is the sub $1,000(usd) market. People who think the market revolves around a
$2,000 dSLR body are dreaming.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 11:05:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"John Francis" <johnf@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 7kpr1$kfg$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In article <3g5rfrFarkh2U1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>>
>>"Pete D" <no@email.com> wrote in message
>>news:zjine.9381$BR4.3460@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>>>
>>> "Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
>>> news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>>>>
>>>> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>>> news:D 7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>>>>> Found today on a german website:
>>>>>
>>>>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>>>>
>>>> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
>>>> de-featured DSLR.
>>>
>>> Discount maybe but defeatured, what is it missing?
>>
>>
>>As far as I understand, a the Pentaprism has been replaced by a
>>'pentamirror' and the AF system has been reduced from 11 points to three
>>(a
>>la Olympus E300)
>>
>>There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the DS which, itself,
>>was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>>digital equivalent of a box Brownie.
>
>
> "almost certainly" ?
>
> Only if the marketplace demands it. <

What sort of bollox is that supposed to be? - the new DL is a downgrade,
whether the 'market' wants it, or not

As for your heady predictions of a new 'feature rich' pro-type camera from
Pentax, you might be in for a surprise.

Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a last
ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture version
of the Ds

This leaves no room for the current istDs - so you can expect that to
disappear, and since no self respecting Pro is going to buy into the Pentax
system the top end of the market isn't going to be attractive to Pentax
either.

I predict no replacement for the D, and the imminent end of the Ds - leaving
Pentax as a digicam & low end dslr manufacturer (if the survive at all -
which is by no means certain)

That would very probably be the best financial strategy for them - and is,
inho, the most likely scenario
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 11:05:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <3g6bpcFasdjjU1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>
>"John Francis" <johnf@panix.com> wrote in message
>news:D 7kpr1$kfg$1@reader1.panix.com...
>> In article <3g5rfrFarkh2U1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the DS which, itself,
>>>was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>>>digital equivalent of a box Brownie.
>>
>> "almost certainly" ?
>>
>> Only if the marketplace demands it. <
>
>What sort of bollox is that supposed to be? - the new DL is a downgrade,
>whether the 'market' wants it, or not

If you got down off your podium, and actually read what I posted, you'd
find nobody was disagreeing with that - just your assertion that there
would be other downgrades.

>As for your heady predictions of a new 'feature rich' pro-type camera from
>Pentax, you might be in for a surprise.
>
>Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a last
>ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture version
>of the Ds
>
>This leaves no room for the current istDs - so you can expect that to
>disappear, and since no self respecting Pro is going to buy into the Pentax
>system the top end of the market isn't going to be attractive to Pentax
>either.
>
>I predict no replacement for the D, and the imminent end of the Ds - leaving
>Pentax as a digicam & low end dslr manufacturer (if the survive at all -
>which is by no means certain)
>
>That would very probably be the best financial strategy for them - and is,
>inho, the most likely scenario


Nope. Their best strategy is to go after market share now (hence the DS
and the DL), and then try and sell these guys (plus the D owners, who are
mostly drawn from the ranks of the existing Pentax SLR owners) upgrades.
Digicams are a saturated market - there are no opportunities there. Low
end DSLRs are a good market for now, but they'll saturate that fairly soon.
Trying to sell only into a highly-competitive, low-profit-margin, saturated
market is a quick way to commit commercial suicide.

The current head of Pentax spelled all this out some time ago, at about
the time the DS was released; a new, low-end DSLR (target street price
was even quoted as being around $600, driven by the Japanese market),
then the digital MF, then an upgraded follow-on to the *ist-D.

If Pentax manage to stick around (which, granted, is by no means certain)
this is the product line I expect to see. There's very little to be gained
by moving further to the low end - at $600 or so Pentax are already quite
price competitive with advanced P&S models. There *might* be a niche for
a $500 body, but there's only a limited window of opportunity to go after
those prospective customers. After that, you're stuck with trying to
convince your customer base to buy new models. Fortunately most camera
owners are irrational, and will stick with what they have rather than
switching to a different brand, even if their only investment in lenses
is the $100 kit lens that came with their original body.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 11:05:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Trapezium wrote:

> Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a last
> ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture version
> of the Ds

In the film only lines, each OEM has cheapie SLR's to pro SLR's. This
is no different, it's just taking longer for the OEM's to find the
boundaries.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
June 1, 2005 11:07:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
news:3g6bpcFasdjjU1@individual.net...
>
>
> This leaves no room for the current istDs - so you can expect that to
> disappear, and since no self respecting Pro is going to buy into the
> Pentax system the top end of the market isn't going to be attractive to
> Pentax either.
>
The so called "Pro" (and wannabee) market is small. The now discounted
RebelXT sell 10:1 over the now discounted 20D, why? Because the market is
looking for lower cost cameras.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 11:57:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

>
> The DS (and, now, the DL) aren't aimed at existing SLR users - they are
> targetted at the folks moving up from a digital point-and-shoot. That's
> the only area in the digital camera marketplace where there is growth,
> and an opportunity for Pentax to capture a little more market share.

I was a Pentax MX 35mm user. I now have a fairly comprehensive Nikon DSLR
system. I will be very interested in the new Pentax *istDS as I have a
drawer-full of old K-mount lenses that served me well for many years and that
are now doing nothing. I wouldn't expect top-line performance from the DS,
but if it's cheap enough, I'd get it just to be able to use my old-buddy K
lenses once in a while.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:04:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 10:42:23 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Trapezium wrote:
>
>> There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the Ds which, itself,
>> was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>> digital equivalent of a box Brownie.
>
>Sounds like a winner to me. Perhaps Kodak should take notice now that
>they've killed their SLR.

A manual mode only DSLR with basic functions but well-built would be
very welcome.
-Rich
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:16:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"John Francis" <johnf@panix.com> wrote in message
news:D 7kvii$936$1@reader1.panix.com...
> In article <3g6bpcFasdjjU1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>>
>>"John Francis" <johnf@panix.com> wrote in message
>>news:D 7kpr1$kfg$1@reader1.panix.com...
>>> In article <3g5rfrFarkh2U1@individual.net>, Trapezium <nil@nil.net>
>>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>There will almost certainly be other downgrades from the DS which,
>>>>itself,
>>>>was downgraded from the D - if this keeps up we'll soon be back at the
>>>>digital equivalent of a box Brownie.
>>>
>>> "almost certainly" ?
>>>
>>> Only if the marketplace demands it. <
>>
>>What sort of bollox is that supposed to be? - the new DL is a downgrade,
>>whether the 'market' wants it, or not
>
> If you got down off your podium, and actually read what I posted, you'd
> find nobody was disagreeing with that - just your assertion that there
> would be other downgrades.




OK.let's start again- I was unduly terse, but that was because you seemed
determined to be pedantic.

My take (FWIW) is that the Dl will have other features removed because it's
an exercise in cost cutting.

These might well be features that Joe Average doesn't give a damn about -
and since, at this segment, price is everything, the lack of features will
probably not hurt sales.

The big question, of course, is what price Pentax pitch it at - and,
frankly, their track record is not good in this respect.

The D was ludicrously over-priced, and the Ds only sells because of a
seemingly unending rebate in the UK. Plus, all the manufacturers have to
overcome the very big hurdle presented by the Canon 350 - now down to about
£530 ex lens.

In the short term things look rosy for budget dslr buyers as the various
brands jostle each other to ever lower price points - but this is precisely
what Pentax do not want to occur, they need an income stream, and the need
it fast - market share with minimal profit per unit is not much use to them
at the moment.

Bottom line, I suppose, is that the market is just too crowded, and Nkican
have too much of an established lead for Pentax to catch up.

If they had launched a truly innovative product they might have stood a
chance - but (yet)another dumbed-down dslr?............
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 3:53:23 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 7kbvv$6ac$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Trapezium wrote:
>
> > The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
de-featured
> > DSLR.
>
> It may be what Pentax needs to keep less photography-serious Pentax lens
> owners from running to Canon.

Perhaps, but I don't think that their business case for this camera is to
only be able to sell them to existing Pentax lens owners, even though this
is certain to be the actual group that buys such a camera.

The best hope for Pentax and/or Konica-Minolta, is for someone like Sony to
buy one of them. Olympus is already beyond hope with the 4:3 system.
June 2, 2005 3:53:24 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Steven M. Scharf" <scharf.steven@linkearth.net> wrote in message
news:TTrne.11576$uR4.1898@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
>
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:D 7kbvv$6ac$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
>> Trapezium wrote:
>>
>> > The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
> de-featured
>> > DSLR.
>>
>> It may be what Pentax needs to keep less photography-serious Pentax lens
>> owners from running to Canon.
>
> Perhaps, but I don't think that their business case for this camera is to
> only be able to sell them to existing Pentax lens owners, even though
> this
> is certain to be the actual group that buys such a camera.
>
> The best hope for Pentax and/or Konica-Minolta, is for someone like Sony
> to
> buy one of them. Olympus is already beyond hope with the 4:3 system.
>
Today the Minolta Canada rep confirmed a soon to be announced 5D to compete
in the Rebel, *istDS, D50, E300 market..
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 3:56:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 7l0k3$h49$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Trapezium wrote:
>
> > Pentax are on their financial uppers and may well have embarked on a
last
> > ditch effort to secure sales by launching a cheaper-to-manufacture
version
> > of the Ds
>
> In the film only lines, each OEM has cheapie SLR's to pro SLR's. This
> is no different, it's just taking longer for the OEM's to find the
> boundaries.

Unfortunately, except for Canon and Nikon, we're seing only the cheapies in
digital SLRs. Now Pentax will have one consumer level D-SLR, and two
entry-level D-SLRs.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:21:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Darrell" <spam@this.eh> wrote in message
news:xYWdnS2VkLNhowPfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
>
> "Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
> news:3g5p3eFaom01U1@individual.net...
>>
>> "Johannes Schwab" <perelandra@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:D 7k7h9$gro$1@online.de...
>>> Found today on a german website:
>>>
>>> http://www.digifotografen.de/index.php?id=0,62,0,0,1,0
>>
>>
>>
>> Another mediocre step by Pentax along the road to bankruptcy.
>>
>> The last thing that the market needs now is yet another discount
>> de-featured DSLR.
> Actually that is what the market is calling for. The biggest growth in
> dSLR is the sub $1,000(usd) market. People who think the market revolves
> around a $2,000 dSLR body are dreaming.


You're right - but why bring out another low spec dslr? - why not forego the
R&D costs of the 'new' model, and just cut the price of the Ds?

The only reason I can think of is that, for Pentax, the *istDs is too
expensive to produce, and cutting the price long term isn't viable.

So they've cobbled together a camera that can be manufactured for noticeably
less than the cost of producing the Ds - which only seems to confirm that
Pentax have made a conscious decision to become a 'cheap' brand.

This might be what the market wants (although I think that, if necessary,
Canon & Nikon can 'out-cheap' Pentax for as long as it takes to put Pentax
out of business) but it's not what existing Pentax owners want.

They want higher spec DSLR's but they may well have to come to terms with
the fact that Pentax have hoisted their flag in the bargain bin and no
super-de-luxe DSLR will be forthcoming.

So they will exit the brand in search of better things - as (probably) will
the new intake of budget buyers once they get bored with the limitations of
their cut price DL.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:21:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
news:3g6u8lFb2j5uU1@individual.net...

> This might be what the market wants (although I think that, if necessary,
> Canon & Nikon can 'out-cheap' Pentax for as long as it takes to put Pentax
> out of business) but it's not what existing Pentax owners want.

Canon could definitely do this, if they wanted to. Nikon might have a harder
time of it, since they don't make their own sensors. Pentax has such tiny
market share, that I doubt that Canon and Nikon are interested in cutting
their margins to compete in the super-cheapo segment. People that care only
about price are not the most profitable customers.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 4:28:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:

> "Darrell" <spam@this.eh> wrote in message
> news:xYWdnS2VkLNhowPfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
[..]
> > Actually that is what the market is calling for. The biggest growth in
> > dSLR is the sub $1,000(usd) market. People who think the market revolves
> > around a $2,000 dSLR body are dreaming.
>
> You're right - but why bring out another low spec dslr?

To compete. :-)

> - why not forego the R&D costs of the 'new' model, and just cut the price
> of the Ds?
>
> The only reason I can think of is that, for Pentax, the *istDs is too
> expensive to produce, and cutting the price long term isn't viable.

Yup. The *ist DS is a tremendous value at its current price.

> So they've cobbled together a camera that can be manufactured for
> noticeably less than the cost of producing the Ds - which only seems to
> confirm that Pentax have made a conscious decision to become a 'cheap'
> brand.

Actually, if you look at their past products, you find that each SLR
series has a flagship, and then a bunch of reiterations of that flagship
that are cheaper to manufacture. I mean, there's no good reason for
there to be 11 different versions of the MZ/ZX line, other than to mark
which ease-of-manufacturing change was made.

Pentax isn't a 'cheap' brand. They make economical low-end versions of
their products, just like other camera manufacturers. On the other hand,
when I picked up a Canon Rebel XT at the store, I was afraid it was
going to crumble under the pressure of my hand. That is, to me, 'cheap.'
I know that Canon makes worthwhile products, but it's low-end entry is
not one of them. This doesn't mean Canon is a 'cheap' brand, and neither
does it mean they're a 'pro' brand.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 5:15:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Morris Sachs" <westmesa@hotmail.com> wrote:

> I was a Pentax MX 35mm user. I now have a fairly comprehensive Nikon
> DSLR system. I will be very interested in the new Pentax *istDS as I
> have a drawer-full of old K-mount lenses that served me well for many
> years and that are now doing nothing. I wouldn't expect top-line
> performance from the DS, but if it's cheap enough, I'd get it just to
> be able to use my old-buddy K lenses once in a while.

Do just that! Though a photographer off and on for 50 years, I never owned a
Pentax. A week ago I bought a *istDS and now am busy surfing eBay for
exactly the kind of oldie-but-goodie, cheap Pentax lenses you already have.
I chose the Pentax over the Nikon and Canon in the same price range because
the *istDS handles like a true classic SLR, and though full of bells and
whistles is also VERY easy to use in manual fashion... its designers must
have catered to old geezers like me who prefer stick shift to automatic.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 5:26:40 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote:

> So they've cobbled together a camera that can be manufactured for
> noticeably less than the cost of producing the Ds - which only seems to
> confirm that Pentax have made a conscious decision to become a 'cheap'
> brand.

Cheap? The *istDS has a large, bright true pentaprism. The Canon and
Nikon DSLRs in the same price range make do with dimmer, smaller
pentamirrors.

As for market strategy, I wager the "gets no respect" Pentax firm has over
the years sold more SLRs to more satisfied buyers than both Nikon and Canon
combined. Not everybody wants or needs a Corvette... Pentax is the Honda
and Toyota of the camera industry :^)

--
Anti-Spam address: my last name at his dot com
Charles Gillen -- Reston, Virginia, USA
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 5:30:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

RichA <none@none.com> wrote:

> A manual mode only DSLR with basic functions but well-built would be
> very welcome.

The *istDS is exactly that, whenever you want it to be. All controls are
very familiar to us old manual shooters, and not deeply buried in
unaccessable screens.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 11:40:15 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Morris Sachs" <westmesa@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:7rone.11730$iA6.2239@newssvr19.news.prodigy.com...
>
>>
>> The DS (and, now, the DL) aren't aimed at existing SLR users - they are
>> targetted at the folks moving up from a digital point-and-shoot. That's
>> the only area in the digital camera marketplace where there is growth,
>> and an opportunity for Pentax to capture a little more market share.
>
> I was a Pentax MX 35mm user. I now have a fairly comprehensive Nikon DSLR
> system. I will be very interested in the new Pentax *istDS as I have a
> drawer-full of old K-mount lenses that served me well for many years and
> that are now doing nothing. I wouldn't expect top-line performance from
> the DS, but if it's cheap enough, I'd get it just to be able to use my
> old-buddy K lenses once in a while.

In that case get a DS, you will not be disappointed, it is not a "dumbed
down" D, in fact some of it's features are improved over the D.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 11:45:00 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Yeah, pretty bad, you get that sometimes,.LOL

I will try again.

Amazon has a page where you can pre-order one.

And while I am here I am still amazed at the people that say the Ds is
"dumbed down" , go to DP Review and do a comparison, it stacks up very well
with other D-SLR's and they work really well.


"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 7kbs3$6ac$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Pete D wrote:
>
>> Amazon already have them for preordering.
>
> I hope you realize how illogical that sounds. ;-)
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 11:51:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Charles Gillen" <see-my-sig@below.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9669CE6586B7gillen@216.194.192.13...
> "Morris Sachs" <westmesa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I was a Pentax MX 35mm user. I now have a fairly comprehensive Nikon
>> DSLR system. I will be very interested in the new Pentax *istDS as I
>> have a drawer-full of old K-mount lenses that served me well for many
>> years and that are now doing nothing. I wouldn't expect top-line
>> performance from the DS, but if it's cheap enough, I'd get it just to
>> be able to use my old-buddy K lenses once in a while.
>
> Do just that! Though a photographer off and on for 50 years, I never
> owned a
> Pentax. A week ago I bought a *istDS and now am busy surfing eBay for
> exactly the kind of oldie-but-goodie, cheap Pentax lenses you already
> have.
> I chose the Pentax over the Nikon and Canon in the same price range
> because
> the *istDS handles like a true classic SLR, and though full of bells and
> whistles is also VERY easy to use in manual fashion... its designers must
> have catered to old geezers like me who prefer stick shift to automatic.

Yes, absolutely agree, they handle so nicely it continues to amaze and
thrill me. I have a couple of older lenses, they are great, 50mm F2 K mount,
50mm F1.8 S mount, Tamron 28mm F2.8, metering works very nicely stopped
down. Looking for something a bit bigger for some long shots. Not that happy
with the kit Sigma lenses that I got but they are okay under most
conditions.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 1:01:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Paul Mitchum" <usenet@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
news:1gxi3x3.qavw75opjvz4N%usenet@mile23.c0m...
> Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>
>> "Darrell" <spam@this.eh> wrote in message
>> news:xYWdnS2VkLNhowPfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
> [..]
>> > Actually that is what the market is calling for. The biggest growth in
>> > dSLR is the sub $1,000(usd) market. People who think the market
>> > revolves
>> > around a $2,000 dSLR body are dreaming.
>>
>> You're right - but why bring out another low spec dslr?
>
> To compete. :-)
>
>> - why not forego the R&D costs of the 'new' model, and just cut the price
>> of the Ds?
>>
>> The only reason I can think of is that, for Pentax, the *istDs is too
>> expensive to produce, and cutting the price long term isn't viable.
>
> Yup. The *ist DS is a tremendous value at its current price.
>
>> So they've cobbled together a camera that can be manufactured for
>> noticeably less than the cost of producing the Ds - which only seems to
>> confirm that Pentax have made a conscious decision to become a 'cheap'
>> brand.
>
> Actually, if you look at their past products, you find that each SLR
> series has a flagship, and then a bunch of reiterations of that flagship
> that are cheaper to manufacture. I mean, there's no good reason for
> there to be 11 different versions of the MZ/ZX line, other than to mark
> which ease-of-manufacturing change was made.
>
> Pentax isn't a 'cheap' brand. They make economical low-end versions of
> their products, just like other camera manufacturers. On the other hand,
> when I picked up a Canon Rebel XT at the store, I was afraid it was
> going to crumble under the pressure of my hand. That is, to me, 'cheap.'
> I know that Canon makes worthwhile products, but it's low-end entry is
> not one of them. This doesn't mean Canon is a 'cheap' brand, and neither
> does it mean they're a 'pro' brand.<<<


Yes, but, my contention is that Pentax may have decided to *become* a
solely cheap brand and that the cut-down DL is part of a strategy that will
involve ending the costly production of the Ds once the DL is on stream

If I'm correct, Pentax will not bother offering a high spec-D
eplacement. - they might well have decided to try and make some money at
the bottom end of the market and to forgo higher spec/lower profit cameras.

This would be disappointing for current Pentax owners who are waiting to
upgrade to a higher spec dslr.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 2:12:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Darrell wrote:

> Today the Minolta Canada rep confirmed a soon to be announced 5D to compete
> in the Rebel, *istDS, D50, E300 market..

... noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........

Any references?




--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 2:20:47 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Trapezium" <nil@nil.net> wrote in message
news:3g7so1Fb0dv8U1@individual.net...
>
> "Paul Mitchum" <usenet@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
> news:1gxi3x3.qavw75opjvz4N%usenet@mile23.c0m...
>> Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>>
>>> "Darrell" <spam@this.eh> wrote in message
>>> news:xYWdnS2VkLNhowPfRVn-qw@rogers.com...
>> [..]
>>> > Actually that is what the market is calling for. The biggest growth in
>>> > dSLR is the sub $1,000(usd) market. People who think the market
>>> > revolves
>>> > around a $2,000 dSLR body are dreaming.
>>>
>>> You're right - but why bring out another low spec dslr?
>>
>> To compete. :-)
>>
>>> - why not forego the R&D costs of the 'new' model, and just cut the
>>> price
>>> of the Ds?
>>>
>>> The only reason I can think of is that, for Pentax, the *istDs is too
>>> expensive to produce, and cutting the price long term isn't viable.
>>
>> Yup. The *ist DS is a tremendous value at its current price.
>>
>>> So they've cobbled together a camera that can be manufactured for
>>> noticeably less than the cost of producing the Ds - which only seems to
>>> confirm that Pentax have made a conscious decision to become a 'cheap'
>>> brand.
>>
>> Actually, if you look at their past products, you find that each SLR
>> series has a flagship, and then a bunch of reiterations of that flagship
>> that are cheaper to manufacture. I mean, there's no good reason for
>> there to be 11 different versions of the MZ/ZX line, other than to mark
>> which ease-of-manufacturing change was made.
>>
>> Pentax isn't a 'cheap' brand. They make economical low-end versions of
>> their products, just like other camera manufacturers. On the other hand,
>> when I picked up a Canon Rebel XT at the store, I was afraid it was
>> going to crumble under the pressure of my hand. That is, to me, 'cheap.'
>> I know that Canon makes worthwhile products, but it's low-end entry is
>> not one of them. This doesn't mean Canon is a 'cheap' brand, and neither
>> does it mean they're a 'pro' brand.<<<
>
>
> Yes, but, my contention is that Pentax may have decided to *become* a
> solely cheap brand and that the cut-down DL is part of a strategy that
> will involve ending the costly production of the Ds once the DL is on
> stream
>
> If I'm correct, Pentax will not bother offering a high spec-D
> placement. - they might well have decided to try and make some money at
> the bottom end of the market and to forgo higher spec/lower profit
> cameras.
>
> This would be disappointing for current Pentax owners who are waiting to
> upgrade to a higher spec dslr.

Until they support the people buying the cameras with well priced middle of
the range lenses they will not sell as many cameras as they should, the D
and the Ds are excellent cameras let down a little by suitable glass, all
the old stuff works well but the new support is poor and expensive.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 2:50:26 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:

> If I'm correct, Pentax will not bother offering a high spec-D
> replacement.

And if you're wrong, they might.

*shrug*
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 9:46:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I agree with you Charles. The *istDS behaves like a classic SLR.
While I have a zoom to go with it (Sigma 18-125 DC), one combination I
love is to use this modern istDS with an old manual focus Vivitar
24f2.8 (which gives me the equivalent of a 35mm in film format).

I used to love my Leica CL with a 40mm and there are plenty of people
who would swear by a Leica M with a 35mm Summicron. I was hoping for
an inexpensive digital rangefinder but with the Epson RD-1 at
$2000plus, I went for the Pentax instead. Along with it and with my
old 24mm, I am basically trying to replicate the experience of a small
camera with an easy to focus and fast to shoot wide-angle for "street
photography".

by the way, I am also driving a stick shift 11 years old Volvo.. :) 
June 2, 2005 11:21:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 7n452$roc$3@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Darrell wrote:
>
>> Today the Minolta Canada rep confirmed a soon to be announced 5D to
>> compete in the Rebel, *istDS, D50, E300 market..
>
> ... noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo..........
>
> Any references?
>
Just his word of mouth, but it has been rumoured for a while now. Knowing
Minolta it will be late ;) 
June 2, 2005 11:22:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Paul Mitchum" <usenet@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
news:1gxizd5.h76g7f18jmvl2N%usenet@mile23.c0m...
> Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>
>> If I'm correct, Pentax will not bother offering a high spec-D
>> replacement.
>
> And if you're wrong, they might.
>
> *shrug*

They have already announced a M-F dSLR, so they have shown some commitment
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 11:54:13 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Paul Mitchum" <usenet@mile23.c0m> wrote in message
news:1gxizd5.h76g7f18jmvl2N%usenet@mile23.c0m...
> Trapezium <nil@nil.net> wrote:
>
>> If I'm correct, Pentax will not bother offering a high spec-D
>> replacement.
>
> And if you're wrong, they might.
>
> *shrug*

They already do, it's called 4z5 medium format? Lets face it all D-SLR's are
just toys compared to the big digitals, just depends how much you want to
pay for your toys.
June 3, 2005 1:02:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Escaper" <escaping@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117759574.458374.308210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I agree with you Charles. The *istDS behaves like a classic SLR.
> While I have a zoom to go with it (Sigma 18-125 DC), one combination I
> love is to use this modern istDS with an old manual focus Vivitar
> 24f2.8 (which gives me the equivalent of a 35mm in film format).
>
> I used to love my Leica CL with a 40mm and there are plenty of people
> who would swear by a Leica M with a 35mm Summicron. I was hoping for
> an inexpensive digital rangefinder but with the Epson RD-1 at
> $2000plus, I went for the Pentax instead. Along with it and with my
> old 24mm, I am basically trying to replicate the experience of a small
> camera with an easy to focus and fast to shoot wide-angle for "street
> photography".
>
> by the way, I am also driving a stick shift 11 years old Volvo.. :) 
>
Darn modern cars, in my day the 3 on the tree shift took some skill ;) 

I do love my *ist D, and my LX... but I think my Argus C4 has film in it at
the moment.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 5:51:56 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Escaper" <escaping@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117759574.458374.308210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>I agree with you Charles. The *istDS behaves like a classic SLR.
> While I have a zoom to go with it (Sigma 18-125 DC), one combination I
> love is to use this modern istDS with an old manual focus Vivitar
> 24f2.8 (which gives me the equivalent of a 35mm in film format).
>
> I used to love my Leica CL with a 40mm and there are plenty of people
> who would swear by a Leica M with a 35mm Summicron. I was hoping for
> an inexpensive digital rangefinder but with the Epson RD-1 at
> $2000plus, I went for the Pentax instead. Along with it and with my
> old 24mm, I am basically trying to replicate the experience of a small
> camera with an easy to focus and fast to shoot wide-angle for "street
> photography".
>
> by the way, I am also driving a stick shift 11 years old Volvo.. :) 
>

Gotcha beat--'89 240 stick, but that's a topic for another group.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 6:01:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <0JOne.1329$fX3.1127@newssvr31.news.prodigy.com>,
Morris Sachs <westmesa@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Escaper" <escaping@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:1117759574.458374.308210@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
>>I agree with you Charles. The *istDS behaves like a classic SLR.
>> While I have a zoom to go with it (Sigma 18-125 DC), one combination I
>> love is to use this modern istDS with an old manual focus Vivitar
>> 24f2.8 (which gives me the equivalent of a 35mm in film format).
>>
>> I used to love my Leica CL with a 40mm and there are plenty of people
>> who would swear by a Leica M with a 35mm Summicron. I was hoping for
>> an inexpensive digital rangefinder but with the Epson RD-1 at
>> $2000plus, I went for the Pentax instead. Along with it and with my
>> old 24mm, I am basically trying to replicate the experience of a small
>> camera with an easy to focus and fast to shoot wide-angle for "street
>> photography".
>>
>> by the way, I am also driving a stick shift 11 years old Volvo.. :) 
>>
>
>Gotcha beat--'89 240 stick, but that's a topic for another group.

I've still got my 1978 MX. And a 1983 Super Program. And a PZ-1p.
(And I still drive a one-owner-since-new 1986 Mustang GT convertible)
!