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Leica digital back for R8 / R9 to ship in two weeks.

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Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:42:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/0505/05053103leica_due.asp

" Following several delays the Leica Digital-Modul-R is set to ship on
June 15, two years after its development was first announced. An
official letter was sent to Leica users over the weekend announcing the
delivery date. The date was put back earlier this month due to 'software
problems'. Mario Thurnherr, manager of Leica Camera's Photo Division,
says, "Our customers had to wait longer than planned for the unique
digital solution from Leica, but are now rewarded with an outstanding
product." Lets hope it really is worth the wait. "

Anyone got an R8/R9?

--
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Anonymous
June 1, 2005 12:47:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:

> " Following several delays the Leica Digital-Modul-R is set to ship on
> June 15, two years after its development was first announced. An
> official letter was sent to Leica users over the weekend announcing the
> delivery date. The date was put back earlier this month due to 'software
> problems'. Mario Thurnherr, manager of Leica Camera's Photo Division,
> says, "Our customers had to wait longer than planned for the unique
> digital solution from Leica, but are now rewarded with an outstanding
> product." Lets hope it really is worth the wait. "

Funny how this is announced on the same day as the extaordinary GM that
is to decide the financial fate of the company ...

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 1, 2005 7:46:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Wed, 01 Jun 2005 08:47:15 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>> " Following several delays the Leica Digital-Modul-R is set to ship on
>> June 15, two years after its development was first announced. An
>> official letter was sent to Leica users over the weekend announcing the
>> delivery date. The date was put back earlier this month due to 'software
>> problems'. Mario Thurnherr, manager of Leica Camera's Photo Division,
>> says, "Our customers had to wait longer than planned for the unique
>> digital solution from Leica, but are now rewarded with an outstanding
>> product." Lets hope it really is worth the wait. "
>
>Funny how this is announced on the same day as the extaordinary GM that
>is to decide the financial fate of the company ...


Yes, it is funny. How many R8/R9's were sold? I'll wager that if
every single user bought a digital back it still wouldn't be enough to
rescue the company.
June 2, 2005 11:42:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

>
> Anyone got an R8/R9?
>
Yes, I do.
JJ
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 12:37:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

> Following several delays the Leica Digital-Modul-R is set to ship on
>June 15, two years after its development was first announced.

I predict that Silicon Film will beat them to the market.
"Silicon Film, the leader in Vaporware since 1998!"
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 3:24:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 7kafl$rd9$2@inews.gazeta.pl...
>
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/0505/05053103leica_due.asp
>
> " Following several delays the Leica Digital-Modul-R is set to ship on
> June 15, two years after its development was first announced. An official
> letter was sent to Leica users over the weekend announcing the delivery
> date. The date was put back earlier this month due to 'software problems'.
> Mario Thurnherr, manager of Leica Camera's Photo Division, says, "Our
> customers had to wait longer than planned for the unique digital solution
> from Leica, but are now rewarded with an outstanding product." Lets hope
> it really is worth the wait. "
>
> Anyone got an R8/R9?

No, but I'd bet that the R8/9 crowd will buy into the back. I find it hard
to believe that someone who invests in that camera/lens system is price
sensitive, and wouldn't jump at the chance to move to digital and retain
their Leitz lenses. I don't own one, and will never own one, but I hope it's
as good as they say and is a marketplace success, simply for Leica's sake.
I'd hate to see a company that's produced such damned fine products for so
long disappear. If this works, maybe they can use the same sensor (a 1.3X, I
believe) in the digital M.

>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 5:05:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Annika1980 wrote:

>>Following several delays the Leica Digital-Modul-R is set to ship on
>>June 15, two years after its development was first announced.
>
>
> I predict that Silicon Film will beat them to the market.
> "Silicon Film, the leader in Vaporware since 1998!"

So you're betting how much cash?



--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 5:26:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

TAFKAB wrote:

> No, but I'd bet that the R8/9 crowd will buy into the back. I find it hard
> to believe that someone who invests in that camera/lens system is price
> sensitive, and wouldn't jump at the chance to move to digital and retain
> their Leitz lenses.

No sure bets. At about CAD$4k/ module, it will be a slow uptake. Not
everyone who has exensive gear can afford to spend more. For CAD$4K, a
very decent Canon, Nikon, K-M, Pentax kit can be assembled.

> long disappear. If this works, maybe they can use the same sensor (a 1.3X, I
> believe) in the digital M.

The sensor is 1.37x, actually, so about 20% more area than a 1.5x
cropped camera.

Pix density is 21,700 pix/mm^2 (10 Mpix)

Nikon D70, Max 7D, *ist : 15,600 pix/mm^2 (6 Mpix)

Canon 20D / 350D 23,700 pix/mm^2 (8 Mpix)

Oly E300: 37,000 pix/mm^2 (8 Mpix)

The above to say that the R8/9 module looks to be starting with decent
prospects wrt noise and resolution.

OTOH, the sensor (per the 2 year old announcement) is a product of Kodak
(with Imacon) who have been less than totally successful wrt noise. I
don't know if they've stuck to the same sensor, but it is likely.

I suspect that integration issues with the rangefinders will make it
very difficult, if at all possible, to make a similar solution for the M's.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 6:13:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:

> TAFKAB wrote:
>
> > No, but I'd bet that the R8/9 crowd will buy into the back. I find
> > it hard to believe that someone who invests in that camera/lens
> > system is price sensitive, and wouldn't jump at the chance to move
> > to digital and retain their Leitz lenses.
>
> No sure bets. At about CAD$4k/ module, it will be a slow uptake. Not
> everyone who has exensive gear can afford to spend more. For CAD$4K,
> a very decent Canon, Nikon, K-M, Pentax kit can be assembled.
>
> > long disappear. If this works, maybe they can use the same sensor (a
> > 1.3X, I believe) in the digital M.
>
> The sensor is 1.37x, actually, so about 20% more area than a 1.5x
> cropped camera.
>
> Pix density is 21,700 pix/mm^2 (10 Mpix)
>
> Nikon D70, Max 7D, *ist : 15,600 pix/mm^2 (6 Mpix)
>
> Canon 20D / 350D 23,700 pix/mm^2 (8 Mpix)
>
> Oly E300: 37,000 pix/mm^2 (8 Mpix)
>
> The above to say that the R8/9 module looks to be starting with decent
> prospects wrt noise and resolution.
>
> OTOH, the sensor (per the 2 year old announcement) is a product of
> Kodak (with Imacon) who have been less than totally successful wrt
> noise. I don't know if they've stuck to the same sensor, but it is
> likely.

Same sensor as what? The Leica sensor is a new product: the
KAF-10010CE. See
http://www.kodak.com/global/en/digital/ccd/products/ful...
for details. You're not thinking of the 14MP CMOS sensor in the late
lamented Kodak DCS Pro series cameras, are you? That's not a Kodak
product. Remember, Kodak is a big company. The camera-making people
aren't the same as the sensor-making people.

There also seems to be a "new" (no date given) 18MP sensor for the
Pentax 645 Digital: the KAF-18000CE.

> I suspect that integration issues with the rangefinders will make it
> very difficult, if at all possible, to make a similar solution for the
> M's.

--
-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not
represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 7:00:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

westin@graphics.cornell.nospam.edu wrote:

> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> writes:

>>OTOH, the sensor (per the 2 year old announcement) is a product of
>>Kodak (with Imacon) who have been less than totally successful wrt
>>noise. I don't know if they've stuck to the same sensor, but it is
>>likely.
>
>
> Same sensor as what? The Leica sensor is a new product: the
> KAF-10010CE. See
> http://www.kodak.com/global/en/digital/ccd/products/ful...
> for details.

If you read above it should be clear that I was refeering to the two
year old announcement that stated a Kodak supplied sensor.

> You're not thinking of the 14MP CMOS sensor in the late
> lamented Kodak DCS Pro series cameras, are you? That's not a Kodak
> product. Remember, Kodak is a big company. The camera-making people
> aren't the same as the sensor-making people.

If you read above it should be clear that I was refeering to the two
year old announcement that stated a Kodak supplied sensor.

> There also seems to be a "new" (no date given) 18MP sensor for the
> Pentax 645 Digital: the KAF-18000CE.

If you read above it should be clear that I was refeering to the two
year old announcement that stated a Kodak supplied sensor.

What two year old announcement you ask?
http://www.dpreview.com/news/0306/03062502leicadigitalr...

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 10:38:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 02 Jun 2005 14:13:21 -0400, westin@graphics.cornell.nospam.edu
<westin@graphics.cornell.nospam.edu> wrote:
>
> You're not thinking of the 14MP CMOS sensor in the late
> lamented Kodak DCS Pro series cameras, are you?

I suspect he's thinking of the ones that Olympus uses in their DSLRs.

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 10:38:58 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Ben Rosengart wrote:

> I suspect he's thinking of the ones that Olympus uses in their DSLRs.

Why would you suspect that I was referring to a 4/3, 5 or 8 Mpix sensor
where the Leica is using 1.37x cropped 10 Mpix sensor?



--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 2, 2005 11:07:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 15:02:42 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
> Ben Rosengart wrote:
>
>> I suspect he's thinking of the ones that Olympus uses in their DSLRs.
>
> Why would you suspect that I was referring to a 4/3, 5 or 8 Mpix sensor
> where the Leica is using 1.37x cropped 10 Mpix sensor?

Because barely a day passes without you making reference to the
"noisy Kodak sensor" in the Olympus DSLRs.

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 12:10:31 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"TAFKAB" <TheArtist@FormerlyKnownAs.Bowser> wrote:
>No, but I'd bet that the R8/9 crowd will buy into the back. I find it hard
>to believe that someone who invests in that camera/lens system is price
>sensitive, and wouldn't jump at the chance to move to digital and retain
>their Leitz lenses. I don't own one, and will never own one, but I hope it's
>as good as they say and is a marketplace success, simply for Leica's sake.
>I'd hate to see a company that's produced such damned fine products for so
>long disappear. If this works, maybe they can use the same sensor (a 1.3X, I
>believe) in the digital M.


The first 12 months' production of the Digital Modul-R is already
pre-ordered. Leica expect that there will still be a waiting list for
the modules 15 months from now.

The digital M is already under development using the same sensor.
However there will be major changes to the rest of the electronics
because they would be far too bulky for an M camera. There is no
intention to produce a "Digital Modul-M"; the digital M will be a
fully integrated digital camera.
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 12:10:32 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Tony Polson wrote:
>
> "TAFKAB" <TheArtist@FormerlyKnownAs.Bowser> wrote:
> >No, but I'd bet that the R8/9 crowd will buy into the back. I find it hard
> >to believe that someone who invests in that camera/lens system is price
> >sensitive, and wouldn't jump at the chance to move to digital and retain
> >their Leitz lenses. I don't own one, and will never own one, but I hope it's
> >as good as they say and is a marketplace success, simply for Leica's sake.
> >I'd hate to see a company that's produced such damned fine products for so
> >long disappear. If this works, maybe they can use the same sensor (a 1.3X, I
> >believe) in the digital M.
>
> The first 12 months' production of the Digital Modul-R is already
> pre-ordered. Leica expect that there will still be a waiting list for
> the modules 15 months from now.
>
> The digital M is already under development using the same sensor.
> However there will be major changes to the rest of the electronics
> because they would be far too bulky for an M camera. There is no
> intention to produce a "Digital Modul-M"; the digital M will be a
> fully integrated digital camera.

I wonder if the Digital M would have a live preview on the rear LCD.
Odd, but nice, to think of an M with through the lens viewing (of a
sort) :) 

Lisa
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 12:10:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 02 Jun 2005 12:17:53 -0700, Lisa Horton <Lisa0205@lisahorton.net> wrote:
>
> I wonder if the Digital M would have a live preview on the rear LCD.
> Odd, but nice, to think of an M with through the lens viewing (of a
> sort) :) 

If I understand correctly, that would require the use of an interline
transfer CCD, as is used in other non-SLR digital cameras. Interline
transfer decreases the area on the chip that can be used for image
capture, so there's a loss of image quality.

Leica seems disinclined to make trade-offs against image quality.
(Bravo.) So -- again, if my understanding is correct -- I would
guess that the digital M won't sport live preview.

--
Ben Rosengart (212) 741-4400 x215
Sometimes it only makes sense to focus our attention on those
questions that are equal parts trivial and intriguing.
--Josh Micah Marshall
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 2:38:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Lisa Horton <Lisa0205@lisahorton.net> wrote:
>
>I wonder if the Digital M would have a live preview on the rear LCD.
>Odd, but nice, to think of an M with through the lens viewing (of a
>sort) :) 


The Digilux 2 does.

;-)
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 2:38:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Tony Polson wrote:
>
> Lisa Horton <Lisa0205@lisahorton.net> wrote:
> >
> >I wonder if the Digital M would have a live preview on the rear LCD.
> >Odd, but nice, to think of an M with through the lens viewing (of a
> >sort) :) 
>
> The Digilux 2 does.
>
> ;-)

Not quite the same thing though, wouldn't you say?
June 3, 2005 11:36:07 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

>
> So ... in the context of the OP, are you considering the digital back?
>
>
I actually am although I doubt it would be a better option than the 1DsMk2
which I expect to buy in a few months.
JJ
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 11:55:06 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Lisa Horton" <Lisa0205@lisahorton.net> wrote in message
news:429F5B61.903507A7@lisahorton.net...
>
>
> Tony Polson wrote:
>>
>> "TAFKAB" <TheArtist@FormerlyKnownAs.Bowser> wrote:
>> >No, but I'd bet that the R8/9 crowd will buy into the back. I find it
>> >hard
>> >to believe that someone who invests in that camera/lens system is price
>> >sensitive, and wouldn't jump at the chance to move to digital and retain
>> >their Leitz lenses. I don't own one, and will never own one, but I hope
>> >it's
>> >as good as they say and is a marketplace success, simply for Leica's
>> >sake.
>> >I'd hate to see a company that's produced such damned fine products for
>> >so
>> >long disappear. If this works, maybe they can use the same sensor (a
>> >1.3X, I
>> >believe) in the digital M.
>>
>> The first 12 months' production of the Digital Modul-R is already
>> pre-ordered. Leica expect that there will still be a waiting list for
>> the modules 15 months from now.
>>
>> The digital M is already under development using the same sensor.
>> However there will be major changes to the rest of the electronics
>> because they would be far too bulky for an M camera. There is no
>> intention to produce a "Digital Modul-M"; the digital M will be a
>> fully integrated digital camera.
>
> I wonder if the Digital M would have a live preview on the rear LCD.
> Odd, but nice, to think of an M with through the lens viewing (of a
> sort) :) 

That could open up a whole new world for the M. Think of the possibilities
for macro photography alone! Again, I hope it's a success.

>
> Lisa
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 11:55:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:n4mu91pq1pevco69ebnokjjva4ep1in08k@4ax.com...
> "TAFKAB" <TheArtist@FormerlyKnownAs.Bowser> wrote:
>>No, but I'd bet that the R8/9 crowd will buy into the back. I find it hard
>>to believe that someone who invests in that camera/lens system is price
>>sensitive, and wouldn't jump at the chance to move to digital and retain
>>their Leitz lenses. I don't own one, and will never own one, but I hope
>>it's
>>as good as they say and is a marketplace success, simply for Leica's sake.
>>I'd hate to see a company that's produced such damned fine products for so
>>long disappear. If this works, maybe they can use the same sensor (a 1.3X,
>>I
>>believe) in the digital M.
>
>
> The first 12 months' production of the Digital Modul-R is already
> pre-ordered. Leica expect that there will still be a waiting list for
> the modules 15 months from now.

Good! As I had said, I'd find it hard to believe that the R8/R9 crowd is
price sensitive.

>
> The digital M is already under development using the same sensor.
> However there will be major changes to the rest of the electronics
> because they would be far too bulky for an M camera. There is no
> intention to produce a "Digital Modul-M"; the digital M will be a
> fully integrated digital camera.

Sounds good so far...

>
>
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 11:56:36 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Annika1980" <annika1980@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1117726679.714794.276110@g44g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Following several delays the Leica Digital-Modul-R is set to ship on
>>June 15, two years after its development was first announced.
>
> I predict that Silicon Film will beat them to the market.
> "Silicon Film, the leader in Vaporware since 1998!"

I'll take a piece of that action. Odds?

>
Anonymous
June 3, 2005 3:13:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Lisa Horton <Lisa0205@lisahorton.net> wrote:

>
>
>Tony Polson wrote:
>>
>> Lisa Horton <Lisa0205@lisahorton.net> wrote:
>> >
>> >I wonder if the Digital M would have a live preview on the rear LCD.
>> >Odd, but nice, to think of an M with through the lens viewing (of a
>> >sort) :) 
>>
>> The Digilux 2 does.
>>
>> ;-)
>
>Not quite the same thing though, wouldn't you say?


.... hence the smiley.
Anonymous
June 4, 2005 5:08:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Tony Polson wrote:
> "TAFKAB" <TheArtist@FormerlyKnownAs.Bowser> wrote:
>
>>No, but I'd bet that the R8/9 crowd will buy into the back. I find it hard
>>to believe that someone who invests in that camera/lens system is price
>>sensitive, and wouldn't jump at the chance to move to digital and retain
>>their Leitz lenses. I don't own one, and will never own one, but I hope it's
>>as good as they say and is a marketplace success, simply for Leica's sake.
>>I'd hate to see a company that's produced such damned fine products for so
>>long disappear. If this works, maybe they can use the same sensor (a 1.3X, I
>>believe) in the digital M.
>
>
>
> The first 12 months' production of the Digital Modul-R is already
> pre-ordered. Leica expect that there will still be a waiting list for
> the modules 15 months from now.
>
> The digital M is already under development using the same sensor.
> However there will be major changes to the rest of the electronics
> because they would be far too bulky for an M camera. There is no
> intention to produce a "Digital Modul-M"; the digital M will be a
> fully integrated digital camera.
>
>
Nice. This could put Leica back in the game in a major way.

--

J

www.urbanvoyeur.com
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 7:14:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Annika1980 wrote:

>> Following several delays the Leica Digital-Modul-R is set to ship on
>>June 15, two years after its development was first announced.
>
> I predict that Silicon Film will beat them to the market.
> "Silicon Film, the leader in Vaporware since 1998!"

I wouldn't say leader, exactly. Ask your local videogame player about Duke
Nukem Forever sometime.

- Matt
!