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Nikon DSLR Question

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Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:14:01 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Good Evening, All,
I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She
is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR
and a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the
equipment she already owns.
So, here are the questions I need help with...
1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
is somewhat limited (max $1500).

2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
tive experiences.

Thanks in advance for all your help with these questions. I will
probably have more before I get this all sorted out.

--
Regards,
Dale Neidhammer |
John 3:16 --+-- Matt 11:28-30
Any Proverbs!! | Live for Him
|

More about : nikon dslr question

Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:14:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Dale" <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D a9pe.29059$j51.6861@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Good Evening, All,
> I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She
> is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR and
> a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the
> equipment she already owns.
> So, here are the questions I need help with...
> 1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).

Start with the D70 and the kit lens. It's a great lens for the money, works
well with the camera, and covers a wide variety of situations except for
telephoto. It's not a macro lens, but does focus fairly close. After that
I would look at a telephoto zoom and a micro lens.
>
> 2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.

Don't know anything about BestPriceCamera.com. I do know if the price
sounds too good to be true it often is.

Sheldon
June 7, 2005 8:14:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 04:14:01 GMT, Dale <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>Good Evening, All,
>I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She
>is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR
>and a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the
>equipment she already owns.
>So, here are the questions I need help with...
>1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).

The kit lens is good for all around home use... with your budget, you may be
able to also get a macro lens... around 100mm would probably be good... Getting
a long lens as well is probably out of your budget... they go from $400 to
$4000...

If she's a good photog she may want to choose her own lenses anyway... I know I
would...

You may want to get the IR remote control ($20) and maybe even an outside flash
unit... lenses aren't everything!

>2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.

I would stay away from anything that is too good to be true!! Come on... how old
are you?? Smarten up!! :) 

>Thanks in advance for all your help with these questions. I will
>probably have more before I get this all sorted out.
Related resources
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:14:02 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 04:14:01 GMT, Dale <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>Good Evening, All,
>I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She
>is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR
>and a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the
>equipment she already owns.
>So, here are the questions I need help with...
>1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).
>
>2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.
>
>Thanks in advance for all your help with these questions. I will
>probably have more before I get this all sorted out.

Chances are, they've stripped out some of the accessories that
come with the camera (like the battery) and will charge you a king's
ransom to get them. You also have to buy a lens (kit zoom is a good
one) a UV filter for it, a memory card of at least 1 gig size,
a case (unless she has one)and a sensor cleaning kit and a spare
battery. Those are all "must haves."
-Rich
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:14:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Bob wrote:
>
> The kit lens is good for all around home use... with your budget, you may be
> able to also get a macro lens... around 100mm would probably be good... Getting
> a long lens as well is probably out of your budget... they go from $400 to
> $4000...
>
> If she's a good photog she may want to choose her own lenses anyway... I know I
> would...
>
> You may want to get the IR remote control ($20) and maybe even an outside flash
> unit... lenses aren't everything!


Also a couple memory cards and a spare battery! And sensor cleaning kit,
Photoshop Elements, card reader, an external hard drive & DVD burner...
all that stuff adds up.


--
Paul Furman
http://www.edgehill.net/1
san francisco native plants
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 8:56:37 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Dale" <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D a9pe.29059$j51.6861@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Good Evening, All,
> I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She is
> a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR and a
> Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the equipment
> she already owns.
> So, here are the questions I need help with...
> 1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).
>
> 2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.
>
> Thanks in advance for all your help with these questions. I will probably
> have more before I get this all sorted out.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Dale Neidhammer |
> John 3:16 --+-- Matt 11:28-30
> Any Proverbs!! | Live for Him
> |

1. The kit lens isn't a bad place to start--its 18-70mm range gives you the
digital equivalent of 27-105mm. If you wanted to go beyond that, you could
take a look at the 24-120mm VR lens. It's not as wide and, some would say,
perhaps not quite as sharp as the kit lens, but I have both and find myself
carrying the VR lens most of the time. You should be able to stay under your
budget with a D70/24-120mm VR combo and have enough left for a good-sized
memory card.

2. I have no experience with BestPrice, but I do have a lot of experience
with B&H Photo and can say that they are excellent with competitive prices.

Good Luck
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 9:18:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Hey, All,
It is nice to know that I am not the only night owl out there!!! Thank
you all so much for your quick responses! I can't tell you how much I
appreciate it. One last question for you D70 owners... how is the
reliability been? Are the extended warranties offered by everyone worth
it? I usually turn them down, but in this case....

You all raised good points that I have considered. For instance, if it
is too good to be true, then it is. The point raised about letting
Linda pick out her additional lenses is a great point. That is probably
what I will do. Lastly, she has more digital photo accessories than she
shake a tree at. Over the last couple of years I have bought the following:
2 GByte microdrive
Canon i9900 printer
120GB network drive (3 on the network so far - we all rip music to one,
the other is for my job)
DVD Burner
more s/w than I care to admit - she really likes the GIMP now that she
has learned it.

This is why I like the photo angle for presents for Linda. It gives me
years worth of ideas to work with as I am sure you all can relate to.

Once again, thanks for the feedback.

Later,
Dale
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 9:29:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Dale" <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D a9pe.29059$j51.6861@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Good Evening, All,
> I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She
> is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR and
> a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the
> equipment she already owns.
> So, here are the questions I need help with...
> 1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).
>

I would go with the kit lens and a 60mm macro lens. With the 1.5 crop
factor, the 60mm becomes the equivelent of a 90mm macro, which is an almost
perfect focal length for what she likes to do and would make a great
portrait lens as well. I find that the flatter perspective I get with
longer macros (like the 100mm macro) just doesn't work well with flowers.
With your budget, a D-70 kit (not D-70s) and the macro lens should leave you
enough for a nice dinner as well.

As far as stores are concerned, I would stick with either a local store she
trusts, B & H, or KEH.

Walt Hanks
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 11:50:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 04:14:01 +0000, Dale wrote:

> Good Evening, All,
> I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She
> is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR and
> a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the
> equipment she already owns.
> So, here are the questions I need help with... 1. What lense(s)? She does
> a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance shots
> to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing to go with more
> than one lense, I just want to be sure that I am getting the right
> lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget is somewhat limited (max $1500).
>
> 2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to be true. Are
> they? Does anyone have any experience with these guys? I plan om
> calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow. I just thought I would ask the
> newsgroup for their collec- tive experiences.
>
> Thanks in advance for all your help with these questions. I will probably
> have more before I get this all sorted out.

As others have stated, get the 18-70mm DX kit lens. It's the best bang for
the buck out there. Stay away from the 24-120 VR. Not all that great.

Don't give your money to anyone other than B&H Photovideo or Adorama.
There are a lot of bad eggs out there. Those two are tried and trusted
(and that's from a guy in South Africa!).

--
?
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 12:05:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Dale <dneid@austin.rr.com> writes:
> 2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they?

They are.
Pure bait & switch according to resellerratings.com.
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 2:54:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Dale <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote:

>1. What lense(s)? (<$1500)

I'm relatively happy with my combo of Nikkor lenses:
18-70 DX kit lens, 50mm f1.8 (B&H $100) and used 70-210 AF f4-5.6
(bit hard to find, about $150).

Next item might be a macro lens for very close up work, probably
Micro-Nikkor 60mm f2.8. For a next telephoto I'd wait to move
up to an AF-S lens, and preferrably image-stabilised. The only
option so far is the 70-200 f2.8 AF-S VR, but that's for after
I find a bag of gold (~$1500). There might be more options in
the future.

--
Ken Tough
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 3:06:37 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Walt Hanks" <walthanks@comcast.net> wrote:

>I would go with the kit lens and a 60mm macro lens. With the 1.5 crop
>factor, the 60mm becomes the equivelent of a 90mm macro, which is an almost
>perfect focal length for what she likes to do and would make a great
>portrait lens as well.


That is very poor advice. The 60mm macro has unpleasant, harsh bokeh
and renders portraits in a very unflattering way. Portrait subjects
will not thank you for using this lens.

It is best to avoid using macro lenses for portraiture, with one
exception. The Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro works well as a macro lens
*and* offers superb rendering for portraiture.

There used to be several macro lenses that worked well for portraits.
Alas only the Tamron is still available new.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 3:06:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:74saa1hqr4bmjtcb7m7rc8u4s49lagkfl6@4ax.com...
> "Walt Hanks" <walthanks@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>>I would go with the kit lens and a 60mm macro lens. With the 1.5 crop
>>factor, the 60mm becomes the equivelent of a 90mm macro, which is an
>>almost
>>perfect focal length for what she likes to do and would make a great
>>portrait lens as well.
>
>
> That is very poor advice. The 60mm macro has unpleasant, harsh bokeh
> and renders portraits in a very unflattering way. Portrait subjects
> will not thank you for using this lens.
>

Interesting. I have a friend who uses his for portrait work regularly. Of
course, he almost always adds a soft focus filter or diffuser, so that might
elliminate the harshness you report. I still feel that it is the best lens
for the flower work the OP's wife does though. The added distance from the
subject needed to use the longer macro would not yield an appropriate
perspective, in my opinion. Though that is mostly a matter of taste.

Thanks for letting me know, though.

Walt
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 4:34:30 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Dale <dneid@austin.rr.com> writes:

> Good Evening, All,
> I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife.
> She is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006
> SLR and a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due
> to the equipment she already owns.
> So, here are the questions I need help with...
> 1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).

As you say, one reason for going with the D70 is that it works with
her existing equipment. Since we don't know what her existing
equipment is, we can't advise what to add very well.

Generally speaking, what she'll need is something new at the wide end,
due to the 1.5x crop factor. From what I hear, the D70 and the kit
lens would be a good place to start her.

The standard D70 kit lens has a decent rep and a great price, and you
won't do much better for a "walkaround" zoom (one suitable for most
situations when walking around with the camera) within your price
constraints.

Alternatively, getting her one of the 12-24mm zooms would give her a
really *good* wideangle end. I think getting *both* the kit lens
*and* the 12-24 will blow your budget (even if you go with a 3rd party
12-24 instead of the Nikon); but if it won't, then that's the perfect
choice IMHO, and based on NOT knowing what she already has and what
kinds of photography she does (i.e. my judgement of perfection here is
far from reliable).

It may not work this way within you relationship with your wife, but
for me, camera equipment is something I have such strong opinions
about that it's pretty darned hard for people to give it to me as a
gift. For me, getting the *not quite right* thing would make me
annoyed each and every time I used it. I would much rather give up
the surprise factor and get equipment that was exactly what I wanted.
But this is very much an individual question, and you may have already
considered it in coming to your (apparent) decision to figure out what
to get without consulting her. If you don't know better than I how to
pick an anniversary gift for your wife -- you have worse problems than
what camera to give her! (And congratulations on your 20th
anniversary!)
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 4:36:48 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"RichA" <none@none.com> wrote in message
news:c4caa1pjpdp30v5fvn9jnm1f1g3vqvij50@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 04:14:01 GMT, Dale <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>
>You also have to buy a lens (kit zoom is a good
> one) a UV filter for it, a memory card of at least 1 gig size,
> a case (unless she has one)and a sensor cleaning kit and a spare
> battery. Those are all "must haves."
> -Rich
>
>

The UV filter is not a "must have." I don't have one, anyway, on any of my
lenses.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 6:29:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Dale" <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D a9pe.29059$j51.6861@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Good Evening, All,
> I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She
> is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR
> and a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the
> equipment she already owns.
> So, here are the questions I need help with...
> 1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).
>
> 2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.
>
> Thanks in advance for all your help with these questions. I will
> probably have more before I get this all sorted out.
>
> --

I'll ignore the blatant evangelizing in your signature (which I've clipped
anyway because it has no place in a photographic discussion) and try to give
you one additional reason for purchasing a Nikon DSLR instead of any other
brand.

I've picked up a friend's Minolta digital and even though I used Minolta
manual focus film SLRs exclusively for over 20 years I couldn't
figure out where to start. BUT ... since I'd already had a few years
experience with Nikon film SLRs and had owned and used a Nikon P/S digital
for almost 6 months, when I picked up the D70 I could just start to use it
because (almost) everything was exactly where I expected it to be and almost
every control did precisely what I assumed it would do. Sure, I wasn't
using more than a third of the camera's capabilities that way at first, but
the learning experience was so easy that I can't imagine wanting to buy
another brand. Your wife should find her experience similar.

Norm
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 6:29:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Norm Dresner wrote:

> I've picked up a friend's Minolta digital and even though I used Minolta
> manual focus film SLRs exclusively for over 20 years I couldn't
> figure out where to start.

You turn it on. All photographic controls are on dedicated dials,
buttons, switches. Set to A,S,M or even P if you're that way inclined.

The only 'thing' to know is that the the right rear 'wheel' controls
aperture; right front wheel controls speed. (Or in A or S mode both
wheels control the prioritized setting).

Shoot.

Unlike the D70 where menu diving is required, most things you will need
are on the the camera body as buttons, switches, levers, etc.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 6:32:32 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 07 Jun 2005 in rec.photo.digital.slr-systems, Dale wrote:

> 1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).

What the others have told you. I have a D70, and I like the kit lens.
However, if she already has a Nikon SLR, then she already has Nikon
glass? It will, by and large, work on the D70, so don't try and
duplicate it. Just remember that, given the size of the sensor, it will
have an effective focal length 1.5 times what it is on a 35mm camera.

Also, if she does any flash work at all, pick up a SB-600 or SB-800
flash. I have a 600, and it's perfectly adequate for what I do with it.

--
Joe Makowiec
http://makowiec.org/
Email: http://makowiec.org/contact/?Joe
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 6:40:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <da9pe.29059$j51.6861@tornado.texas.rr.com>,
Dale <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>Good Evening, All,
>I am looking at a Nikon D70 as a 20th anniversary gift for my wife. She
>is a serious amateur photographer who presently has a Nikon N6006 SLR
>and a Nikon 5700 Coolpix. I want to stick withj a Nikon DSLR due to the
>equipment she already owns.
>So, here are the questions I need help with...
>1. What lense(s)? She does a great deal of family photography
> as well as a lot of outdoors stuff. Everything from distance
> shots to real close and tight insects/flowers. I am willing
> to go with more than one lense, I just want to be sure that
> I am getting the right lense(s) for her. BTW, my budget
> is somewhat limited (max $1500).

Hmm ... If I were limited to a single lens, for what you have
listed, I would suggest the lens which I already had when I got my D70
(body only). That is the "28-105mm f3.5-4.5 D", which offers an
equivalent focal length range from 42mm to 157.5mm when you take the crop
factor into account. It has a macro mode which can get you quite close
(as long as you stay within the 50mm-105mm range).

Be warned, however, that when you are that close, you can't use
the built-in flash, as the lens itself casts a shadow. But if you have
sufficient light outdoors, you should be fine.

If she needs wide angle coverage, this lens won't do on a D70,
thanks to the 1.5 crop factor. However, the "kit" lens will do a good
job at that end. (I don't have that lens, so I don't know whether it
has a macro mode available.

>2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they?

Probably. There seem to be a large number of shady operators in
NYC. There are those in this newsgroup who track such, so you will
probably get better information from them on this part.

One of the tricks appears to be that all of the standard things
which come with the camera are taken out of the box and sold separately,
bringing the price back up closer to normal. In this case, the things
would include the battery, and the battery charger (all sold
separately). Maybe even the camera strap would be sold separately,
since it is not attached to the camera as it is originally packaged.

But also consider -- the D70 is being replaced by the D70s, so
you can expect some price drops. (However, their pricing on the D70s
seems rather suspiciously low, two.

> Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.

I think that both precautions are good ideas.

>Thanks in advance for all your help with these questions. I will
>probably have more before I get this all sorted out.

Best of luck,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 6:50:12 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <K6ape.23827$PR6.5445@tornado.texas.rr.com>,
Dale <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote:
>Hey, All,
>It is nice to know that I am not the only night owl out there!!! Thank
>you all so much for your quick responses! I can't tell you how much I
>appreciate it. One last question for you D70 owners... how is the
>reliability been? Are the extended warranties offered by everyone worth
>it? I usually turn them down, but in this case....

My own feeling is that they are not. Generally, the standard
warranty covers the "infant mortality" period, during which failures are
likely. (Not that I have experienced any with the D70), and then you
should have a good trouble-free life until it finally reaches
end-of-life, where failures start to rise again as things wear out.

>You all raised good points that I have considered. For instance, if it
>is too good to be true, then it is. The point raised about letting
>Linda pick out her additional lenses is a great point. That is probably
>what I will do. Lastly, she has more digital photo accessories than she
>shake a tree at. Over the last couple of years I have bought the following:
>2 GByte microdrive

A consideration about the microdrive -- aside from the fact that
many consider them to be more fragile than the CF cards. You will
*need* at least one CF card (even an 8Mb one from my CoolPix 950) to
install firmware upgrades into the camera. It will *not* install from a
microdrive, and Nikon's web site warns about this on the pages
explaining how to install firmware upgrades. (And the latest firmware
upgrade gives you most of the non-hardware features of the D70s. Only
the larger display and the electrical remote control, which are hardware
changes, are left out by the firmware upgrade. (And your D70 may or may
not have the firmware bumped to 2.0 (two parts, each is a separate
install.)

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 9:32:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Dale" <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:D a9pe.29059$j51.6861@tornado.texas.rr.com...

> 2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.
>


BestPriceCameras.com is a typical, bad news bait-and-switch operation. Look
at http://resellerratings.com/seller8754.html and be sure to scroll down to
read the reader reviews.

If you're going to order online, you will find that the lower the price is
below that of B&H Photovideo, the more likely you are to get screwed. Look
at http://www.ximinasphotography.com/lessons/lesson08/came... for a
good tutorial on online camera buying.


HMc
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 10:53:49 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 84ba0$9ki$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Norm Dresner wrote:
>
>> I've picked up a friend's Minolta digital and even though I used Minolta
>> manual focus film SLRs exclusively for over 20 years I couldn't
>> figure out where to start.
>
> You turn it on. All photographic controls are on dedicated dials,
> buttons, switches. Set to A,S,M or even P if you're that way inclined.
>
> The only 'thing' to know is that the the right rear 'wheel' controls
> aperture; right front wheel controls speed. (Or in A or S mode both
> wheels control the prioritized setting).
>
> Shoot.
>
> Unlike the D70 where menu diving is required, most things you will need
> are on the the camera body as buttons, switches, levers, etc.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
>

Menu diving? I've shot thousands of shots with the D70 and can't remember a
single time I needed to use the menu.

Disinformation from a loyal Canon user?
Anonymous
June 7, 2005 10:53:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Tom Scales wrote:

> Menu diving? I've shot thousands of shots with the D70 and can't remember a
> single time I needed to use the menu.

Compared to the Max 7D, the D70 requires a lot more two-handed
operation, or a button push then action. On the 7D just about all photo
related functions have a dedicated wheel, button, switch, lever, etc.
For example exp comp has a lever-wheel; flash comp has another; metering
mode has its own lever; etc. etc. So most modes' status is visiible
whether the camera is on or off.

Cheers,
Alan


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 2:46:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Walt Hanks" <walthanks@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.net> wrote in message
>news:74saa1hqr4bmjtcb7m7rc8u4s49lagkfl6@4ax.com...
>> "Walt Hanks" <walthanks@comcast.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I would go with the kit lens and a 60mm macro lens. With the 1.5 crop
>>>factor, the 60mm becomes the equivelent of a 90mm macro, which is an
>>>almost
>>>perfect focal length for what she likes to do and would make a great
>>>portrait lens as well.
>>
>>
>> That is very poor advice. The 60mm macro has unpleasant, harsh bokeh
>> and renders portraits in a very unflattering way. Portrait subjects
>> will not thank you for using this lens.
>>
>
>Interesting. I have a friend who uses his for portrait work regularly. Of
>course, he almost always adds a soft focus filter or diffuser, so that might
>elliminate the harshness you report. I still feel that it is the best lens
>for the flower work the OP's wife does though. The added distance from the
>subject needed to use the longer macro would not yield an appropriate
>perspective, in my opinion. Though that is mostly a matter of taste.
>
>Thanks for letting me know, though.


You're welcome. The 60mm Micro Nikkor is a fine macro lens and I
fully understand your concern about using a longer focal length.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 5:04:16 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Dale wrote:

>
> 2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.

In the camera biz, beware prices far below what reputable dealers like
B&H offer. Here's some info about BestPriceCameras:

http://www.resellerratings.com/seller8754.html

--
Albert Nurick | Nurick + Associates - Web Design
albert@nurick.com | eCommerce - Content Management
www.nurick.com | Web Applications - Hosting
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 5:07:57 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Dale wrote:

> 2. Found an ad for Nikon D70 equipment at a place on the web
> called BestPriceCameras.com. The prices seem to good to
> be true. Are they? Does anyone have any experience with
> these guys? I plan om calling the BBB in Brooklyn tomorrow.
> I just thought I would ask the newsgroup for their collec-
> tive experiences.

I just looked at their web site. I'd stay far, far, far away. $99 for
a filter? And the comments on resellerratings.com indicate a great
deal of BS.

--
Albert Nurick | Nurick + Associates - Web Design
albert@nurick.com | eCommerce - Content Management
www.nurick.com | Web Applications - Hosting
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 7:37:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:13mpe.107758$IO.16749@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
> news:D 84ba0$9ki$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>> Norm Dresner wrote:
>>
>>> I've picked up a friend's Minolta digital and even though I used Minolta
>>> manual focus film SLRs exclusively for over 20 years I couldn't
>>> figure out where to start.
>>
>> You turn it on. All photographic controls are on dedicated dials,
>> buttons, switches. Set to A,S,M or even P if you're that way inclined.
>>
>> The only 'thing' to know is that the the right rear 'wheel' controls
>> aperture; right front wheel controls speed. (Or in A or S mode both
>> wheels control the prioritized setting).
>>
>> Shoot.
>>
>> Unlike the D70 where menu diving is required, most things you will need
>> are on the the camera body as buttons, switches, levers, etc.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Alan
>>
>
> Menu diving? I've shot thousands of shots with the D70 and can't remember
> a single time I needed to use the menu.
>
> Disinformation from a loyal Canon user?

Not really paying attention, are you... He shoots Minolta.
And I shoot a D70, have used it for various events from the Governor of
Michigan signing proclamations, to weddings, and I have to occasionally dive
in to the menu--usually to turn off something I enabled when I was playing
around.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 8:40:05 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Once again, thanks to all who took the time to provide me with some very
useful feedback. It has been fascinating to read some of the "opposing,
point/counterpoint" responses. You guys all appear to very very cordial
with each other. Something that is refreshing to see in today's online
world.

As for the BestPriceCameras and others... if it is too good to be true
it usually is. I found the resllerratings.com site just after I posted
my original message. Whoa!!! Thanks to you all for saving me from
vendors such as these. Looks like it will be either B&H or the local
Nikon guy here in Austin, TX.

Thanks once again to you all for all the help. You have made this an
enjoyable experience.

--
Regards,
Dale Neidhammer |
John 3:16 --+-- Matt 11:28-30
Any Proverbs!! | Live for Him
|
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 10:47:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Dale" <dneid@austin.rr.com> wrote in message
news:FEupe.35324$j51.19041@tornado.texas.rr.com...
> Once again, thanks to all who took the time to provide me with some very
> useful feedback. It has been fascinating to read some of the "opposing,
> point/counterpoint" responses. You guys all appear to very very cordial
> with each other. Something that is refreshing to see in today's online
> world.
>
> As for the BestPriceCameras and others... if it is too good to be true it
> usually is. I found the resllerratings.com site just after I posted my
> original message. Whoa!!! Thanks to you all for saving me from vendors
> such as these. Looks like it will be either B&H or the local Nikon guy
> here in Austin, TX.


Another online seller to consider is Cameta Camera, which sells only through
eBay as cametaauctions.com I just purchased the D70S Kit with a 1gb card
and got an outstanding deal. No high pressure, they took my order and I'll
have the goods by Friday. Very reasonable shipping prices too. I had all
of the stuff in my "cart" at the B&H website and the price was over $100
better @ Cameta. Actually, B&H and Adorama both just raised the price on
the D70 kit from $999 to $1049, plus the $100 rebate. Check Cameta out at
reseller ratings as well, very high marks.

BTW, thanks for the earlier response to my D70 vs 10D question, obviously
decided on the D70 (D70S).

Tim

Tim & Christine Walsh
Arizona Tribal Collectors
www.tribalcollectors.com
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 11:36:39 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Jun 2005 16:32:36 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> Tom Scales wrote:
>
>> Menu diving? I've shot thousands of shots with the D70 and can't
>> remember a single time I needed to use the menu.
>
> Compared to the Max 7D, the D70 requires a lot more two-handed operation,
> or a button push then action. On the 7D just about all photo related
> functions have a dedicated wheel, button, switch, lever, etc. For example
> exp comp has a lever-wheel; flash comp has another; metering mode has its
> own lever; etc. etc. So most modes' status is visiible whether the camera
> is on or off.

Clearly that would make you a much better photographer and also explains
why Minolta is undoubtably the first choice of the world's top
photographers...
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 1:40:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Tom Scales wrote:
>> Menu diving? I've shot thousands of shots with the D70 and can't remember a
>> single time I needed to use the menu.

>Compared to the Max 7D, the D70 requires a lot more two-handed
>operation, or a button push then action. On the 7D just about all photo
>related functions have a dedicated wheel, button, switch, lever, etc.
>For example exp comp has a lever-wheel; flash comp has another; metering
>mode has its own lever; etc. etc. So most modes' status is visiible
>whether the camera is on or off.

If find shooting RAW means you need a lot less menu diving. Most
of the time I'd use it for contrast adjustment on JPG. The D70
could maybe use a button/wheel for contrast, or for selecting
one from a programmable custom "sat/contrast/sharpen" group.

--
Ken Tough
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 3:07:20 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Matt Clara" <critics@large.com> wrote in message
news:WJtpe.313784$H_1.267893@fe04.news.easynews.com...
> "Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
> news:13mpe.107758$IO.16749@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>>
>> "Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
>> news:D 84ba0$9ki$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
>>> Norm Dresner wrote:
>>>
>>>> I've picked up a friend's Minolta digital and even though I used
>>>> Minolta
>>>> manual focus film SLRs exclusively for over 20 years I couldn't
>>>> figure out where to start.
>>>
>>> You turn it on. All photographic controls are on dedicated dials,
>>> buttons, switches. Set to A,S,M or even P if you're that way inclined.
>>>
>>> The only 'thing' to know is that the the right rear 'wheel' controls
>>> aperture; right front wheel controls speed. (Or in A or S mode both
>>> wheels control the prioritized setting).
>>>
>>> Shoot.
>>>
>>> Unlike the D70 where menu diving is required, most things you will need
>>> are on the the camera body as buttons, switches, levers, etc.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Alan
>>>
>>
>> Menu diving? I've shot thousands of shots with the D70 and can't
>> remember a single time I needed to use the menu.
>>
>> Disinformation from a loyal Canon user?
>
> Not really paying attention, are you... He shoots Minolta.
> And I shoot a D70, have used it for various events from the Governor of
> Michigan signing proclamations, to weddings, and I have to occasionally
> dive in to the menu--usually to turn off something I enabled when I was
> playing around.
>
> --
> Regards,
> Matt Clara
> www.mattclara.com
>

Actually, Alan seems to spend more time touting Canon, so who knows if he
even OWNS a camera.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 3:07:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Tom Scales wrote:

> Actually, Alan seems to spend more time touting Canon, so who knows if he
> even OWNS a camera.

Three. All Minolta. I don't 'tout' Canon, I just recognize that all
things considered, it is the best lineup available for DSLR. I'm too
heavilly invested in Minolta glass to make a jump to Canon. Out of 6
lenses, there are 5 I just "have to have" and having those in Canon
would be a costly proposition, not to mention flashes and TC's. I'm
very content with Minolta and I've built a very, very good lens
collection. The Maxxum 7D is a superb DSLR, and in the context of this
thread-splinter, I would state that it has the best user interface of
all DSLR's, period.

I have nothing against Nikon, just find it a more awkward proposition
than Canon. I have several friends who are Nikon users and they are all
very good photographers. And that's what counts. Use the tool to do
the job.

Cheers,
Alan.


--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
June 8, 2005 3:09:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Dale wrote:

> more s/w than I care to admit - she really likes the GIMP now that she
> has learned it.
>
If she is familiar with the Gimp, then there is a free RAW file
plugin/editing tool (UFRaw) that works very well with the D70. It has
the camera white balance settings for the D70 included as the default.
URL is:
http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/
Windows version is available for d/l from that site.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 4:44:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Tom Scales" <tomtoo@softhome.net> wrote in message
news:IjApe.113400$IO.7304@tornado.tampabay.rr.com...
>
> Actually, Alan seems to spend more time touting Canon, so who knows if he
> even OWNS a camera.

Now, now... Alan's many things, but a liar he's not.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
June 8, 2005 4:47:51 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Tony Polson wrote:
> "Walt Hanks" <walthanks@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>
>>I would go with the kit lens and a 60mm macro lens. With the 1.5 crop
>>factor, the 60mm becomes the equivelent of a 90mm macro, which is an almost
>>perfect focal length for what she likes to do and would make a great
>>portrait lens as well.
>
>
>
> That is very poor advice. The 60mm macro has unpleasant, harsh bokeh
> and renders portraits in a very unflattering way. Portrait subjects
> will not thank you for using this lens.
>
> It is best to avoid using macro lenses for portraiture, with one
> exception. The Tamron 90mm f/2.8 Macro works well as a macro lens
> *and* offers superb rendering for portraiture.
>
> There used to be several macro lenses that worked well for portraits.
> Alas only the Tamron is still available new.
>
>
The Sigma 105mm f 2.8 EX that I have has beautiful smooth and unharsh
bokeh, so the Tamron cannot be the only one. But either lens, at 90/105
mm is getting a bit on the long side for portraiture on a D70.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 4:47:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Frederick <nomailplease@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>The Sigma 105mm f 2.8 EX that I have has beautiful smooth and unharsh
>bokeh


You should look again. The Sigma 105mm f 2.8 EX is renowned for
having just about the harshest bokeh of any short telephoto lens
that's currently available.

But if you're happy with it, that's just fine.

;-)
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 6:40:45 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <42uca1hqikhbfov74vcspiap90atsmq6pb@4ax.com>,
Bob <FlintsTone@nospam.com> wrote:

[ ... ]

> How about a small camera bag just to protect the camera itself
>when caught outdoors? I wish they still made those leather custom cases like I
>had on my Mamiya... I hate to carry the big camera bag on walks so I leave it in
>the car... and the camera is unprotected...

You mean what was officially called the "ever ready case", and
usually called by its detractors the "never-ready case"? :-)

Back when I used a camera in one of those, I got very good at
flipping off the snaps for the top with my thumbs as I raised the camera
to my eye, and flipping the case over the camera top so it was out of
the way. But that particular one had a hard top shell, so it would flip
rather nicely. Some of the soft-shell cases were not nearly as easy to
get out of the way, so I tended to not use them.

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
June 8, 2005 11:16:54 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 8 Jun 2005 14:40:45 -0400, dnichols@d-and-d.com (DoN. Nichols) wrote:

>In article <42uca1hqikhbfov74vcspiap90atsmq6pb@4ax.com>,
>Bob <FlintsTone@nospam.com> wrote:
>
> [ ... ]
>
>> How about a small camera bag just to protect the camera itself
>>when caught outdoors? I wish they still made those leather custom cases like I
>>had on my Mamiya... I hate to carry the big camera bag on walks so I leave it in
>>the car... and the camera is unprotected...
>
> You mean what was officially called the "ever ready case", and
>usually called by its detractors the "never-ready case"? :-)
>
> Back when I used a camera in one of those, I got very good at
>flipping off the snaps for the top with my thumbs as I raised the camera
>to my eye, and flipping the case over the camera top so it was out of
>the way. But that particular one had a hard top shell, so it would flip
>rather nicely. Some of the soft-shell cases were not nearly as easy to
>get out of the way, so I tended to not use them.
>
> Enjoy,
> DoN.

Mine was made of hard leather, and worked pretty well, except when I wanted to
use a tripod... the snaps eventually pulled out however, and it deteriated
quite a bit... maybe I could make my own, just need some leather!

hmmm now where's a cow... :) 
June 9, 2005 2:29:58 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Tony Polson wrote:
> Frederick <nomailplease@nomail.com> wrote:
>
>>The Sigma 105mm f 2.8 EX that I have has beautiful smooth and unharsh
>>bokeh
>
>
>
> You should look again. The Sigma 105mm f 2.8 EX is renowned for
> having just about the harshest bokeh of any short telephoto lens
> that's currently available.
>
> But if you're happy with it, that's just fine.
>
> ;-)

ROFL:

http://www.fredmiranda.com/reviews/showproduct.php?prod...

"I purchased this lens as a combination macro and portraiture lens.
After ordering it, but before it arrived, I started to have second
thoughts, worrying about how well it would perform as a portrait lens.
Well, I didn't need to worry. This lens is amazingly sharp and has great
bokeh.

Sharp, wow, sharp. And good contrast. Wonderful bokeh.

I absolutely adore this lens. The results are so sharp with excellent
contrast and beautiful background blur."

etc...
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 7:30:04 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 05:18:07 -0700, Skip M wrote:

> They have more compatible lenses currently in production, which could be
> of use to a new user. You have to go back nearly 20 years to find lenses
> that are not compatible with current Canon cameras and current lenses are
> compatible with bodies built since the late '80s. Nikon "G" lenses aren't
> compatible with older Nikon AF bodies, and neither are the VR lenses (N90s
> and older). Canon has a deeper assortment of IS lenses than Nikon, too.
> What is it that Nikon offers that Canon doesn't? (Sincere question, I'm
> not just being argumentative.)

That's not really relevant since I could name hundreds of Nikkors made
since 1959 that will work, one way or another, on a Nikon DSLR. So Canon
has no advantage in terms of lens availability over Nikon.

What Nikon offers is a much wider system. I believe in all honesty that
you have to spend more to get the same if you go with Canon as a system.
This is purely based on the fact that good EF lenses are in short supply
on the used market.

> 20D vs D100? 8MP, lower noise at higher ISO, 5fps. Comparing it to the
> D70 isn't fair, the Nikon is a lower stratum camera.

You know, Skip, this noise issue that Canon users continue to bleat about
is actually a non-issue for 95% of the photos that get produced by the
users. I remember how noisy my D60 was at 800. The Nikon D70 is better at
1000 than the D60 was at 800, but obviously there have been improvements
made by Canon since then. That the 20D has an extra 2MP is not an issue in
my life. I really doubt that most photographers who make prints from their
digital files will ever really need more than 6MP. I am looking at glossy
A4 sized prints on my desk right now that were made with both the D60 and
the D70. There is no discernable difference in quality between the shots
and I have yet to print larger than A4.

What irks me is when morons like Alan Browne and Stephen Scharf go around
telling people that Canon is a superior system when there is no evidence
to suggest that such a situation exists at all.

> True, EF-S isn't pro spec, though owners of the 10-22 may disagree, but,
> besides the 12-24 Nikkor, what is missing in the equivalent Canon lens
> line? I'll concede that Nikon's flash system is better, always has been,
> but Canon's flash system is backwards compatible throughout the line, too.
> Older flashes don't work on newer bodies, but new flashes work on the
> older ones...

Remember that EF-S lenses won't work on older Canon DSLR's. The 12-24mm DX
Nikkor even works on film SLR's from 18mm up.

>> So considering the above, what exactly *is* it that gives Canon the best
>> lineup available for DSLR?
> Higher resolution bodies, deeper lens line, more IS lenses, perspective
> control lenses, better PR department... That being said, I think the D2X
> is a brilliant example of thinking outside the box, dual resolution
> depending on intended use.

I don't believe that the Canon lens line-up is offering any real
advantage over the Nikkor one. They might have more IS than there are VR
lenses, but that is not really a good enough reason to say they are
outright better than Nikon.

BTW, Canon don't have a DC lens do they?

--
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Anonymous
June 9, 2005 7:30:05 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Roxy d'Urban" <not@home.com> wrote in message
news:p an.2005.06.09.13.30.00.782000@home.com...
> On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 05:18:07 -0700, Skip M wrote:
>
>> They have more compatible lenses currently in production, which could be
>> of use to a new user. You have to go back nearly 20 years to find lenses
>> that are not compatible with current Canon cameras and current lenses are
>> compatible with bodies built since the late '80s. Nikon "G" lenses
>> aren't
>> compatible with older Nikon AF bodies, and neither are the VR lenses
>> (N90s
>> and older). Canon has a deeper assortment of IS lenses than Nikon, too.
>> What is it that Nikon offers that Canon doesn't? (Sincere question, I'm
>> not just being argumentative.)
>
> That's not really relevant since I could name hundreds of Nikkors made
> since 1959 that will work, one way or another, on a Nikon DSLR. So Canon
> has no advantage in terms of lens availability over Nikon.

Those lenses aren't current production, either. It still stands that
current "G" Nikkors aren't fully compatible with older AF bodies. Canon's
EF-S lenses aren't, either, with their older AF bodies.
>
> What Nikon offers is a much wider system. I believe in all honesty that
> you have to spend more to get the same if you go with Canon as a system.
> This is purely based on the fact that good EF lenses are in short supply
> on the used market.

How is the current Nikon lineup wider than the current Canon lineup?
>
>> 20D vs D100? 8MP, lower noise at higher ISO, 5fps. Comparing it to the
>> D70 isn't fair, the Nikon is a lower stratum camera.
>
> You know, Skip, this noise issue that Canon users continue to bleat about
> is actually a non-issue for 95% of the photos that get produced by the
> users. I remember how noisy my D60 was at 800. The Nikon D70 is better at
> 1000 than the D60 was at 800, but obviously there have been improvements
> made by Canon since then. That the 20D has an extra 2MP is not an issue in
> my life. I really doubt that most photographers who make prints from their
> digital files will ever really need more than 6MP. I am looking at glossy
> A4 sized prints on my desk right now that were made with both the D60 and
> the D70. There is no discernable difference in quality between the shots
> and I have yet to print larger than A4.

Comparing a 2 generation old Canon isn't very relevant, either. You asked
what they offer that Nikon didn't, not what impact it may have on your
photography...

>
> What irks me is when morons like Alan Browne and Stephen Scharf go around
> telling people that Canon is a superior system when there is no evidence
> to suggest that such a situation exists at all.
>
>> True, EF-S isn't pro spec, though owners of the 10-22 may disagree, but,
>> besides the 12-24 Nikkor, what is missing in the equivalent Canon lens
>> line? I'll concede that Nikon's flash system is better, always has been,
>> but Canon's flash system is backwards compatible throughout the line,
>> too.
>> Older flashes don't work on newer bodies, but new flashes work on the
>> older ones...
>
> Remember that EF-S lenses won't work on older Canon DSLR's. The 12-24mm DX
> Nikkor even works on film SLR's from 18mm up.
>
>>> So considering the above, what exactly *is* it that gives Canon the best
>>> lineup available for DSLR?
>> Higher resolution bodies, deeper lens line, more IS lenses, perspective
>> control lenses, better PR department... That being said, I think the D2X
>> is a brilliant example of thinking outside the box, dual resolution
>> depending on intended use.
>
> I don't believe that the Canon lens line-up is offering any real
> advantage over the Nikkor one. They might have more IS than there are VR
> lenses, but that is not really a good enough reason to say they are
> outright better than Nikon.
>
> BTW, Canon don't have a DC lens do they?

What's a "DC" lens? I'm not familiar with the term.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 11:17:52 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Skip M <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote:

> Those lenses aren't current production, either. It still stands that
> current "G" Nikkors aren't fully compatible with older AF bodies. Canon's
> EF-S lenses aren't, either, with their older AF bodies.

On the other hand, who cares about the old bodies? No one shoots film any
more.

> How is the current Nikon lineup wider than the current Canon lineup?

The "current" lineup includes all the really nice lenses you can get on the
used market for not a whole lot of money. I find it to be a huge advantage
that the old manual lenses can be used; some of them are outstanding in
quality.

Nikon does have a couple of glaring holes in their lens roster, though.
Canon is way better on perspective control lenses, for example.

>> BTW, Canon don't have a DC lens do they?
>
> What's a "DC" lens? I'm not familiar with the term.

Defocus control. Lets you control the character of the bokeh (schmuckle)
by adjusting the spherical aberration correction. If you're into
low-depth-of-field shots, those lenses are really cool. They can also
double as adjustable soft-focus lenses if you're into that sort of
thing.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 3:15:13 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Skip M" <shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes:
> Roxy d'Urban wrote:

>> BTW, Canon don't have a DC lens do they?

No. They have an SF lens. E.g. Canon EF 135 f/2.8 SF, which is
similar, but the softening effects also impacts in-focus objects.

> What's a "DC" lens? I'm not familiar with the term.

DC = Defocus Control.
It gives the photographer some control over bokeh (how out of focus
objects are rendered). For an introduction, see:
http://www.stacken.kth.se/~maxz/defocuscontrol/
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 3:37:59 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Jeremy Nixon" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
news:11ah5f0emuvgr6f@corp.supernews.com...
> Skip M <shadowcatcher@cox.net> wrote:
>
>> Those lenses aren't current production, either. It still stands that
>> current "G" Nikkors aren't fully compatible with older AF bodies.
>> Canon's
>> EF-S lenses aren't, either, with their older AF bodies.
>
> On the other hand, who cares about the old bodies? No one shoots film any
> more.
>
>> How is the current Nikon lineup wider than the current Canon lineup?
>
> The "current" lineup includes all the really nice lenses you can get on
> the
> used market for not a whole lot of money. I find it to be a huge
> advantage
> that the old manual lenses can be used; some of them are outstanding in
> quality.
>
> Nikon does have a couple of glaring holes in their lens roster, though.
> Canon is way better on perspective control lenses, for example.
>
>>> BTW, Canon don't have a DC lens do they?
>>
>> What's a "DC" lens? I'm not familiar with the term.
>
> Defocus control. Lets you control the character of the bokeh (schmuckle)
> by adjusting the spherical aberration correction. If you're into
> low-depth-of-field shots, those lenses are really cool. They can also
> double as adjustable soft-focus lenses if you're into that sort of
> thing.
>
> --
> Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com

Who's "no one"? I'm shooting black and white in 35mm and 120/220 formats
more than anything. Picked up an old F3HP recently, too. Bullet proof and
easy to use, though it's almost too small without the motor drive.

--
Regards,
Matt Clara
www.mattclara.com
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 3:53:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Matt Clara <critics@large.com> wrote:

> Who's "no one"?

I was being silly.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 8:54:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Can you e-mail me directly (dneid@austin.rr.com)? I have a couple of
questions that I would like to ask you. I really do not want to clutter
up the n.g. with these questions.
Thanks,
Dale Neidhammer
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 11:13:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Dale wrote:

> Can you e-mail me directly (dneid@austin.rr.com)? I have a couple of
> questions that I would like to ask you. I really do not want to clutter
> up the n.g. with these questions.

Please clutter up the ng with these questions if they are relevant to
DSLR's. That's what the ng is for. We all learn from the questions and
the answers (often more from the questions than the answers ... but
that's another subject... ;-) )

Cheers,
Alan

--
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Anonymous
June 10, 2005 11:35:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 07:15:50 -0700, Skip M wrote:

> Those lenses aren't current production, either. It still stands that
> current "G" Nikkors aren't fully compatible with older AF bodies. Canon's
> EF-S lenses aren't, either, with their older AF bodies.

Doesn't matter, there are still more Nikkors to choose from than there are
Canon EF's. Current production doesn't account for much in terms of
usability.

> How is the current Nikon lineup wider than the current Canon lineup?

Again, "current" has nothing to do with it. Available does. But to provide
an example, there are no Canon SLR's with interchangeable prisms,
multi-function backs, bellows, etc. The Nikon system is simply wider. You
cannot argue with that.

> Comparing a 2 generation old Canon isn't very relevant, either. You asked
> what they offer that Nikon didn't, not what impact it may have on your
> photography...

Well that two generation old camera (D60) is less than 4 years old.
Doesn't say a hell of a lot for "investing" in a Canon system (which is
what I did at the time, but the loss of currency coupled to the continuous
failures from my Canon "system" led me to believe that I had been duped by
hype - but I was big enough to admit my mistake and thus I went back to
the system I started on).

> What's a "DC" lens? I'm not familiar with the term.

Defocus control. Something else I haven't seen yet from Canon is an
underwater SLR system, or a housing. Do they make one?

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