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Nikon SB-600 Flash and Stoffen Diffusers

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Anonymous
June 8, 2005 2:12:06 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I use an old Vivitar 285 flash with a Sto-fen diffuser, mounted to a Nikon
D70, with more pleasing results when compared with direct flash.
I am thinking of getting the SB-600 flash and I have down loaded the
SB-600 manual. I understand that the SB-600 detects the zoom setting and
adjusts the flash accordingly.
I know that the use of a Sto-fen diffuser will disperse the light and
obviously change the light output from what the flash thinks is present and
possibly negate the automatic iTTL function . Is the use of Sto-fen
diffusers with the SB-600 (or any other dedicated flash) not recommended?
I know some of you are experienced, knowledgeable flash users so any
"simple" comments on how to get pleasing, automated flash results will be
appreciated.
I have been an infrequent flash user before but now find I am shooting
more flash pictures than ever now that my first grandchild has joined the
family.
Thanks,
Don F
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 2:34:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Don F wrote:

> I know that the use of a Sto-fen diffuser will disperse the light and
> obviously change the light output from what the flash thinks is present and
> possibly negate the automatic iTTL function . Is the use of Sto-fen
> diffusers with the SB-600 (or any other dedicated flash) not recommended?

As the light reaching the subject will be reduced, the system will
compensate and output the flash a bit longer. It will measure this
during the preflash and adjust.

Aim the sto fen up at about 45 - 60 degrees (where there's a white
ceiling), or straight up if you're close to a white wall behind you.

Cheers,
Alan

--
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Anonymous
June 8, 2005 3:48:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Don F" <donf11@NOSPAMhome.com> writes:

> I use an old Vivitar 285 flash with a Sto-fen diffuser, mounted to a Nikon
> D70, with more pleasing results when compared with direct flash.
> I am thinking of getting the SB-600 flash and I have down loaded the
> SB-600 manual. I understand that the SB-600 detects the zoom setting and
> adjusts the flash accordingly.
> I know that the use of a Sto-fen diffuser will disperse the light and
> obviously change the light output from what the flash thinks is present and
> possibly negate the automatic iTTL function . Is the use of Sto-fen
> diffusers with the SB-600 (or any other dedicated flash) not recommended?
> I know some of you are experienced, knowledgeable flash users so any
> "simple" comments on how to get pleasing, automated flash results will be
> appreciated.
> I have been an infrequent flash user before but now find I am shooting
> more flash pictures than ever now that my first grandchild has joined the
> family.

A Sto-Fen diffuser (or something indistinguishable from one) came with
my Nikon SB-80dx, and works fine. I bought one for my SB-28, and that
works fine, too. Can't *promise* one will work on the SB-600, but I
don't see why not.
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Related resources
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 4:58:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 86vlr$bn2$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> As the light reaching the subject will be reduced, the system will
> compensate and output the flash a bit longer. It will measure this during
> the preflash and adjust.
> Aim the sto fen up at about 45 - 60 degrees (where there's a white
> ceiling), or straight up if you're close to a white wall behind you.
> Cheers,
> Alan
>
-----------
Thanks for the reply, Alan, but I was concerned specifically about the
focal length reported from the D70 to the SB-600 flash. Guide numbers are
provided for different focal lengths so I assumed the SB-600 light output
was regulated (or compensated for) in some fashion dependent on the lens
focal length.
The Fresnel lens on the Vivtar can be manually set by pushing it's
position into one of three positions which directs the beam of light from a
narrow to an increasingly wider beam. Both the camera and flash settings are
performed manually. Putting a Sto-Fen diffuser effectively changes the
light beam pattern from narrow to wide angle while the camera may still be
reporting telephoto (for example). I don't know exactly what the SB-600 does
with the focal length information supplied by the camera which is the
primary reason for my question.
Thanks again for your response.
Don F
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 5:27:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 08/06/2005 12:58 PM, Don F wrote:

> [...] Putting a Sto-Fen diffuser effectively changes the
> light beam pattern from narrow to wide angle while the camera may still be
> reporting telephoto (for example). I don't know exactly what the SB-600 does
> with the focal length information supplied by the camera which is the
> primary reason for my question.

Can't you just manually zoom the flash?
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 7:10:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <d879v1$379$1@inews.gazeta.pl>,
Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>Don F wrote:

[ ... ]

>> Thanks for the reply, Alan, but I was concerned specifically about the
>> focal length reported from the D70 to the SB-600 flash. Guide numbers are
>> provided for different focal lengths so I assumed the SB-600 light output
>> was regulated (or compensated for) in some fashion dependent on the lens
>> focal length.
>
>The focal length data given to the flash drives the zoom reflector in
>the flash head to optimize coverage for the lens. For example, if you
>have a zoom lens attached, you can (in most flashes) hear the flash head
>adjusting as you adjust the zoom (or see the reflector move inside the
>head if the cover isn't too difusing). When zoomed wide (say 20mm) the
>GN of the flash is effecively reduced; when zoomed narrow (say 100mm)
>the GN of the flash is increased. It is the maximum zoom FL GN number
>that is typically the marketing number given.
>
>Recent flashes such as my 5600HS (Maxxum) also integrate the focus
>distance into the flash exposure loop to improve consistency v. subjects
>of differing tone and reflectance. But this is weighted with the actual
>flash return light and is least useful if the head is tilted (the
>algorithm likely cuts distance integration if the head is tilted /
>swiveled).
>
>But once that's adjusted (flash zoom), as you depress the shutter, it
>pops a mild test flash and then measure the return via the lens /
>metering system.
>
>Since the Sto-Fen will block some of the test light, the metering system
>will adjust the flash output to be correspondingly longer. (In the
>OTF-TTL (film) this would occur during the flash shot, not in pre-flash,
>but the result is the same).

Note that you may have the functionality of the Sto-Fen (at
least in part) already build into to your SB-600. My description is
based on experience with a predecessor (the SB-28 for my Nikon N90s),
and with the SB-800.

First -- slid up into the top of the flash head are two devices:

1) A diffuser screen (which pulls out and hinges down over the
front of the built-in diffuser screen in front of the flashlamp)
to increase the wide-angle coverage. (This switches the setup
information in the flash, and perhaps even reports something to
the camera.)

2) The information card which pulls out above the diffuser screen,
can be used to bounce an even more diffuse light with the flash
head pointed up at an angle.

The above are present in both the SB-28 and the SB-800, so they
should also be present in the SB-600.

3) Finally, with the SB-800, there is a diffuser cap which slips
over the head, and depresses a switch in the head to tell the
flash that it is in use. It should also fit over the SB-600
(though you would have to order it separately), but I am not
sure whether there is the sensor switch for detecting it. It
probably does not matter in the iTTL mode, as the pre-flash
should detect it anyway, and adjust exposure as necessary, as
Alan has explained above and below.

>When the flash is pointed off-axis (as you should do with the stofen),
>the flash/camera computations are changed to be mainly metering based as
>the system has no idea of the path taken by the light, the amount of
>reflection, etc. It doesn't matter, because during pre-flash the
>system determines how much light gets back and adjusts output (and
>possibly aperture and ISO number) in accordance with the returned power
>(see your manual). [ In OTF (film) only the power (duration) of the
>flash can be controlled. ]
>
>GN number is only useful to deterine maximum range at full power for a
>given aperture. Usually this is stated at the max zoom of the flash
>head. GN is not an internal parameter of the system (except where it
>may be used to display max range on the flash status panel). It does
>not apply when the head is tilted or swiveled, of course.
>
>It is not desirable to always use full power, as that drains the
>batteries and (at least in fast shooting situations) puts added stress
>on the system (or prevents fast shooting due to long recycle times).

And -- the more power you put into the flash lamp, the more it
is darkened by evaporated metal from the electrodes inside, thus
producing a slowly decreasing effective guide number. I don't know how
many full-power flashes the SB-800 can tolerate, though I suspect that
it uses the same flashlamp as the SB-600, and as the SB-600 is not as
powerful, it should get more.

[ ... ]

>I hope the above sheds more light on the issue.

Well ... the flash will, anyway. :-)

Actually, it was a very good explanation, and I would not have
bothered to add anything if it were not for my direct experience with
the SB-28 and the SB-800. As it was, I felt that I had to minimize my
trimming of the quotes, until we got past the specific to the general.
I may have missed something, because I have never seen the Sto-Fen.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 7:19:25 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

DoN. Nichols wrote:

> In article <d879v1$379$1@inews.gazeta.pl>,
> Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>
>>Don F wrote:
>
>
> [ ... ]
>
>
>>> Thanks for the reply, Alan, but I was concerned specifically about the
>>>focal length reported from the D70 to the SB-600 flash. Guide numbers are
>>>provided for different focal lengths so I assumed the SB-600 light output
>>>was regulated (or compensated for) in some fashion dependent on the lens
>>>focal length.
>>
>>The focal length data given to the flash drives the zoom reflector in
>>the flash head to optimize coverage for the lens. For example, if you
>>have a zoom lens attached, you can (in most flashes) hear the flash head
>>adjusting as you adjust the zoom (or see the reflector move inside the
>>head if the cover isn't too difusing). When zoomed wide (say 20mm) the
>>GN of the flash is effecively reduced; when zoomed narrow (say 100mm)
>>the GN of the flash is increased. It is the maximum zoom FL GN number
>>that is typically the marketing number given.
>>
>>Recent flashes such as my 5600HS (Maxxum) also integrate the focus
>>distance into the flash exposure loop to improve consistency v. subjects
>>of differing tone and reflectance. But this is weighted with the actual
>>flash return light and is least useful if the head is tilted (the
>>algorithm likely cuts distance integration if the head is tilted /
>>swiveled).
>>
>>But once that's adjusted (flash zoom), as you depress the shutter, it
>>pops a mild test flash and then measure the return via the lens /
>>metering system.
>>
>>Since the Sto-Fen will block some of the test light, the metering system
>>will adjust the flash output to be correspondingly longer. (In the
>>OTF-TTL (film) this would occur during the flash shot, not in pre-flash,
>>but the result is the same).
>
>
> Note that you may have the functionality of the Sto-Fen (at
> least in part) already build into to your SB-600. My description is
> based on experience with a predecessor (the SB-28 for my Nikon N90s),
> and with the SB-800.
>
> First -- slid up into the top of the flash head are two devices:
>
> 1) A diffuser screen (which pulls out and hinges down over the
> front of the built-in diffuser screen in front of the flashlamp)
> to increase the wide-angle coverage. (This switches the setup
> information in the flash, and perhaps even reports something to
> the camera.)
>
> 2) The information card which pulls out above the diffuser screen,
> can be used to bounce an even more diffuse light with the flash
> head pointed up at an angle.
>
> The above are present in both the SB-28 and the SB-800, so they
> should also be present in the SB-600.
>
> 3) Finally, with the SB-800, there is a diffuser cap which slips
> over the head, and depresses a switch in the head to tell the
> flash that it is in use. It should also fit over the SB-600
> (though you would have to order it separately), but I am not
> sure whether there is the sensor switch for detecting it. It
> probably does not matter in the iTTL mode, as the pre-flash
> should detect it anyway, and adjust exposure as necessary, as
> Alan has explained above and below.
>
>
>>When the flash is pointed off-axis (as you should do with the stofen),
>>the flash/camera computations are changed to be mainly metering based as
>>the system has no idea of the path taken by the light, the amount of
>>reflection, etc. It doesn't matter, because during pre-flash the
>>system determines how much light gets back and adjusts output (and
>>possibly aperture and ISO number) in accordance with the returned power
>>(see your manual). [ In OTF (film) only the power (duration) of the
>>flash can be controlled. ]
>>
>>GN number is only useful to deterine maximum range at full power for a
>>given aperture. Usually this is stated at the max zoom of the flash
>>head. GN is not an internal parameter of the system (except where it
>>may be used to display max range on the flash status panel). It does
>>not apply when the head is tilted or swiveled, of course.
>>
>>It is not desirable to always use full power, as that drains the
>>batteries and (at least in fast shooting situations) puts added stress
>>on the system (or prevents fast shooting due to long recycle times).
>
>
> And -- the more power you put into the flash lamp, the more it
> is darkened by evaporated metal from the electrodes inside, thus
> producing a slowly decreasing effective guide number. I don't know how
> many full-power flashes the SB-800 can tolerate, though I suspect that
> it uses the same flashlamp as the SB-600, and as the SB-600 is not as
> powerful, it should get more.
>
> [ ... ]
>
>
>>I hope the above sheds more light on the issue.
>
>
> Well ... the flash will, anyway. :-)
>
> Actually, it was a very good explanation, and I would not have
> bothered to add anything if it were not for my direct experience with
> the SB-28 and the SB-800. As it was, I felt that I had to minimize my
> trimming of the quotes, until we got past the specific to the general.
> I may have missed something, because I have never seen the Sto-Fen.

Thanks for adding the specifics.

Never used a Sto-Fen!? Probably the lightest, smallest (but not
cheapest) gadget that improves indoor flash photogrpahy.

Cheers,
Alan
--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 8:05:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <d87gbs$3qa$1@inews.gazeta.pl>,
Alan Browne <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:
>DoN. Nichols wrote:

[ ... ]

>> 3) Finally, with the SB-800, there is a diffuser cap which slips
>> over the head, and depresses a switch in the head to tell the
>> flash that it is in use. It should also fit over the SB-600
>> (though you would have to order it separately), but I am not
>> sure whether there is the sensor switch for detecting it.

[ ... ]

>> Actually, it was a very good explanation, and I would not have
>> bothered to add anything if it were not for my direct experience with
>> the SB-28 and the SB-800. As it was, I felt that I had to minimize my
>> trimming of the quotes, until we got past the specific to the general.
>> I may have missed something, because I have never seen the Sto-Fen.
>
>Thanks for adding the specifics.

You're welcome. Thanks for the excellent base onto which I
added them.

>Never used a Sto-Fen!? Probably the lightest, smallest (but not
>cheapest) gadget that improves indoor flash photogrpahy.

Apparenetly, the diffuser cap which I described above *is* the
equivalent of a Sto-Fen, based on a response in another branch of this
thread (which I read after I posted the above.)

And -- it stores on the flash in the soft-pack which comes with
the flash, so all it does is add perhaps an extra inch to the length of
the flash.

Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 8:19:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

DoN. Nichols wrote:

> Apparenetly, the diffuser cap which I described above *is* the
> equivalent of a Sto-Fen, based on a response in another branch of this
> thread (which I read after I posted the above.)

I disagee. I have the same widget on my 5600HS and what it is designed
for is to spread the flash more for wide angle use. It is flat where
the StoFen is a rectangular box of sorts.

The StoFen sends light all over the place (mostly ceiling and walls if
used as designed) the idea being to get a lot of flash light from a lot
of directions.

> And -- it stores on the flash in the soft-pack which comes with
> the flash, so all it does is add perhaps an extra inch to the length of
> the flash.

The stofen hardly takes any room and certainly doesn't weigh enough to
worry about.

Cheers,
Alan

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
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Anonymous
June 8, 2005 8:38:41 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Wow! "Ask and you shall receive" sounds very appropriate here.
Thanks to both Alan and Don N for a very thorough answer to my question
and also an excellent, consise explanation of dedicated flash operation.
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Don F
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 8:44:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 08/06/2005 4:19 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
> DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
>> Apparenetly, the diffuser cap which I described above *is* the
>> equivalent of a Sto-Fen, based on a response in another branch of this
>> thread (which I read after I posted the above.)
>
>
> I disagee. I have the same widget on my 5600HS and what it is designed
> for is to spread the flash more for wide angle use. It is flat where
> the StoFen is a rectangular box of sorts.

I've now lost track of where we're at in this thread, but some Nikon
flashes have both. The SB-80DX and the SB-800 both have a StoFen-like
dome that snaps on and off, *and* a wide-angle pull-out fold-down flat
adapter that gets you to 17mm and 14mm. When the dome is used, a
micro-switch auto-zooms the flash to 14mm.

Dunno about the SB-600; I've never used one of those.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 8:57:29 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Doug Payne wrote:

> On 08/06/2005 4:19 PM, Alan Browne wrote:

>> I disagee. I have the same widget on my 5600HS and what it is
>> designed for is to spread the flash more for wide angle use. It is
>> flat where the StoFen is a rectangular box of sorts.
>
>
> I've now lost track of where we're at in this thread, but some Nikon
> flashes have both. The SB-80DX and the SB-800 both have a StoFen-like
> dome that snaps on and off, *and* a wide-angle pull-out fold-down flat
> adapter that gets you to 17mm and 14mm. When the dome is used, a
> micro-switch auto-zooms the flash to 14mm.

There's always room for me to be wrong ... but I looked at a photo of
the SB-600 and I saw the pull-out widget and nothing about the dome (if
there is one).

http://www.helixphoto.com/35mm/nikon/nkflash/sb600.html does not mention
a dome.

Cheers,
Alan.

--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 9:54:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:57:29 -0400, Alan Browne
<alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote:

>Doug Payne wrote:
>
>> On 08/06/2005 4:19 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> I disagee. I have the same widget on my 5600HS and what it is
>>> designed for is to spread the flash more for wide angle use. It is
>>> flat where the StoFen is a rectangular box of sorts.
>>
>>
>> I've now lost track of where we're at in this thread, but some Nikon
>> flashes have both. The SB-80DX and the SB-800 both have a StoFen-like
>> dome that snaps on and off, *and* a wide-angle pull-out fold-down flat
>> adapter that gets you to 17mm and 14mm. When the dome is used, a
>> micro-switch auto-zooms the flash to 14mm.
>
>There's always room for me to be wrong ... but I looked at a photo of
>the SB-600 and I saw the pull-out widget and nothing about the dome (if
>there is one).
>
>http://www.helixphoto.com/35mm/nikon/nkflash/sb600.html does not mention
>a dome.
>
>Cheers,
>Alan.

I think all Nikon flashes since the SB-28 have come with a Stofen
diffuser as part of the kit. I'm pretty sure all the DX flashes have.
I know the SB-28DX had it, the SB-80DX, and the SB-800. They also
have a pull out wide angle diffuser and a pull out white card for
bounce fill.
June 8, 2005 9:56:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Don F" <donf11@NOSPAMhome.com> wrote in message
news:eaDpe.25752$rb6.1898@lakeread07...
> I use an old Vivitar 285 flash with a Sto-fen diffuser, mounted to a
Nikon
> D70, with more pleasing results when compared with direct flash.
> I am thinking of getting the SB-600 flash and I have down loaded the
> SB-600 manual. I understand that the SB-600 detects the zoom setting and
> adjusts the flash accordingly.
> I know that the use of a Sto-fen diffuser will disperse the light and
> obviously change the light output from what the flash thinks is present
and
> possibly negate the automatic iTTL function . Is the use of Sto-fen
> diffusers with the SB-600 (or any other dedicated flash) not recommended?
> I know some of you are experienced, knowledgeable flash users so any
> "simple" comments on how to get pleasing, automated flash results will be
> appreciated.
> I have been an infrequent flash user before but now find I am shooting
> more flash pictures than ever now that my first grandchild has joined the
> family.
> Thanks,
> Don F
>
>

I don't have an SB-600 but I did just buy a D70s kit and SB-800. The SB-800
comes with a matching Sto-fen diffuser. When the diffuser is mounted on the
flash head it pushes in a small switch located on the underside of the
flash. That switch lets the flash know that a diffuser is mounted and the
flash head will not zoom automatically as long as the diffuser is mounted.
Anonymous
June 8, 2005 9:56:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 08/06/2005 1:56 PM, Tech wrote:

> I don't have an SB-600 but I did just buy a D70s kit and SB-800. The SB-800
> comes with a matching Sto-fen diffuser. When the diffuser is mounted on the
> flash head it pushes in a small switch located on the underside of the
> flash. That switch lets the flash know that a diffuser is mounted and the
> flash head will not zoom automatically as long as the diffuser is mounted.

If the SB-800 works like the SB-80DX, mounting the diffuser causes the
flash to zoom to its widest setting (14mm), presumably to send light to
all parts of the diffuser so that it can redirect the light.
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 2:01:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan.browne@FreelunchVideotron.ca> wrote in message
news:D 87m3q$4io$1@inews.gazeta.pl...
> Doug Payne wrote:
>
>> On 08/06/2005 4:19 PM, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>>> I disagee. I have the same widget on my 5600HS and what it is designed
>>> for is to spread the flash more for wide angle use. It is flat where
>>> the StoFen is a rectangular box of sorts.
>>
>>
>> I've now lost track of where we're at in this thread, but some Nikon
>> flashes have both. The SB-80DX and the SB-800 both have a StoFen-like
>> dome that snaps on and off, *and* a wide-angle pull-out fold-down flat
>> adapter that gets you to 17mm and 14mm. When the dome is used, a
>> micro-switch auto-zooms the flash to 14mm.
>
> There's always room for me to be wrong ... but I looked at a photo of the
> SB-600 and I saw the pull-out widget and nothing about the dome (if there
> is one).
>
> http://www.helixphoto.com/35mm/nikon/nkflash/sb600.html does not mention a
> dome.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan.
>
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm


There is no SW-10H Diffusion Dome supplied with the SB-600. There is also
no switch on the underside of the flash to automatically enable the 14mm
setting if a dome were to be mounted. The wide angle flip-down plate is
present however. This should get you wide angle coverage, but probably not
the same overall effect of a Stoffen (or the Diffusion Dome if mounted and
the SB-600 manually set to the 14mm zoom position).
I have a Stoffen on a SB-28 and it does work a treat.
Bob

> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 3:35:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

McLeod <cerveza@xplornet.com> wrote:


>
> I think all Nikon flashes since the SB-28 have come with a Stofen
> diffuser as part of the kit. I'm pretty sure all the DX flashes have.
> I know the SB-28DX had it, the SB-80DX, and the SB-800. They also
> have a pull out wide angle diffuser and a pull out white card for
> bounce fill.
>

I have an SB-600. There is no Stoffen diffuser. The one from an SB-800 will
not fit. There is also no pull out white card. I use a Lumiquest Pocket
Bounce to make up for it. Better than a Stoffen any day and easier to stow
in the camera bag.
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 3:31:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 17:56:14 GMT, "Tech" <tech@nospam.com> wrote:

>I don't have an SB-600 but I did just buy a D70s kit and SB-800. The SB-800
>comes with a matching Sto-fen diffuser. When the diffuser is mounted on the
>flash head it pushes in a small switch located on the underside of the
>flash. That switch lets the flash know that a diffuser is mounted and the
>flash head will not zoom automatically as long as the diffuser is mounted.
>

I also have an SB-800 and no SB-600. A couple more relevant facts
about the SB-800 (and probably also SB-600): when you place the
built-in wideangle adapter onto the flash head, this disables the head
zoom. So you may want to always use the wideangle adapter when using
the SB-600 with an add-on diffuser like the Stoffen. Tilting the flash
head up does not disable the zoom function, so you may want to use the
built-in wideangle adapter whenever you use bounce flash in close
quarters (you may or may not want to use the zoom function when using
bounce flash with a subject far away - it depends on a tradeoff
between flash intensity, the directionality of lighting and the
distance to walls and ceiling).

The SB-600 appears to be a fine strobe. However, if you can afford the
extra cost of the SB-800, you will get a lot more functionality and an
interface and display easier to learn and use. You may want to use the
extra functions provided by the SB-800 as you learn and grow, so
buying an SB-600 now may not be cheaper in the long run. These were
the factors that led me to choose the SB-800, and I did not regret it.

There are plenty of commercial diffusers for portable strobes. You may
also build your own or improvise. For instance, a translucent-white
supermarket plastic bag filled with air and taped to or manually held
on the flash head will give you the same results of a 40$ fancy
diffuser. Tracing paper and translucent shower curtains are also very
good diffusers (but you must find a way to keep them at a distance
from the flash head). The main thing to consider here is: to get best
results, you need a (geometrically) large source of diffused light. In
turn, this means (1) the diffuser must be mounted 20-50cm in front of
the flash head, and (2) it must be 20-50cm across. You can look at
studio lighting fixtures as examples. No studio diffuser is smaller
than 40-50cm, because a smaller size would defeat its purpose. There
is a fundamental difference between diffuse light sources (which must
be large) and a diffuser mounted directly on a flash head (it can be
small because its purpose is to increase the angular flash coverage to
match wideangle lenses or to spread light for bounce illumination, not
to provide direct diffuse lighting - which it cannot do in any
significant way).
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 3:32:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Deedee Tee <spam bait: postmaster@127.0.0.1;root@localhost;abuse@localhost;enforcement@sec.gov;cyberfraud@nasaa.org> wrote:

> The SB-600 appears to be a fine strobe. However, if you can afford the
> extra cost of the SB-800, you will get a lot more functionality and an
> interface and display easier to learn and use. You may want to use the
> extra functions provided by the SB-800 as you learn and grow, so
> buying an SB-600 now may not be cheaper in the long run. These were
> the factors that led me to choose the SB-800, and I did not regret it.

I went for the SB-600 because most of the time that I use flash, I want
to go "old school" and don't care about automatic stuff, but I figured
it would be nice to have that for snapshot use. Now, I'm actually
finding it to be a bit annoying and I'm thinking of replacing it with
something simpler -- it has no PC jack, the little hot-shoe optical
slave I had won't fire it for some reason, and it has no distance
indicators when setting the power manually. So, I find the 600 to
be overpriced and underfeatured. The 800 is just overpriced, unless
you really plan to use all that iTTL stuff -- but if you do, that's
probably the way to go.

The shutter lag iTTL introduces is unacceptable to me, anyway. The one
time I tried to use it in anger, I was at a friend's house and she wanted
me to take some snapshots of her 4-year-old daughter. Well, that sounded
like the perfect application for automatic flash. But the shutter lag is
so great that I was unable to catch a single moment (4-year-olds don't sit
still), and I ended up just switching it to manual anyway.

The exposures it got were not great, either, but I attribute that to my
lack of experience with it.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 3:32:01 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Jeremy Nixon" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
news:11afct0k1ejt3b9@corp.supernews.com...
> Deedee Tee <spam bait:
> postmaster@127.0.0.1;root@localhost;abuse@localhost;enforcement@sec.gov;cyberfraud@nasaa.org>
> wrote:
>
>> The SB-600 appears to be a fine strobe. However, if you can afford the
>> extra cost of the SB-800, you will get a lot more functionality and an
>> interface and display easier to learn and use. You may want to use the
>> extra functions provided by the SB-800 as you learn and grow, so
>> buying an SB-600 now may not be cheaper in the long run. These were
>> the factors that led me to choose the SB-800, and I did not regret it.
>
> I went for the SB-600 because most of the time that I use flash, I want
> to go "old school" and don't care about automatic stuff, but I figured
> it would be nice to have that for snapshot use. Now, I'm actually
> finding it to be a bit annoying and I'm thinking of replacing it with
> something simpler -- it has no PC jack, the little hot-shoe optical
> slave I had won't fire it for some reason, and it has no distance
> indicators when setting the power manually. So, I find the 600 to
> be overpriced and underfeatured. The 800 is just overpriced, unless
> you really plan to use all that iTTL stuff -- but if you do, that's
> probably the way to go.
>
> The shutter lag iTTL introduces is unacceptable to me, anyway. The one
> time I tried to use it in anger, I was at a friend's house and she wanted
> me to take some snapshots of her 4-year-old daughter. Well, that sounded
> like the perfect application for automatic flash. But the shutter lag is
> so great that I was unable to catch a single moment (4-year-olds don't sit
> still), and I ended up just switching it to manual anyway.
>
> The exposures it got were not great, either, but I attribute that to my
> lack of experience with it.
>
> --
> Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com

With what combination of equipment did you notice shutter lag. I use the
SB-800 and have experienced no difference in operation with or without the
flash attached. I have seen no difficulty in capturing fast moving action
at all digitally. It seems at least as fast as my F5 and SB-28 combination.
Bob
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 4:06:33 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:19:18 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:

> DoN. Nichols wrote:
>
>> Apparenetly, the diffuser cap which I described above *is* the
>> equivalent of a Sto-Fen, based on a response in another branch of this
>> thread (which I read after I posted the above.)
>
> I disagee. I have the same widget on my 5600HS and what it is designed
> for is to spread the flash more for wide angle use. It is flat where the
> StoFen is a rectangular box of sorts.

Maybe you should research the equipment you opine about prior to making a
jackass of yourself.

The diffuser dome and the wide-angle diffractor are two totally separate
features of the SB-800.

But then again we know your preference for other systems over Nikon.

--
email: drop rods and insert surfaces
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 10:51:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Robert Brace <rlbrace@shaw.ca> wrote:

> With what combination of equipment did you notice shutter lag.

Using "commander mode" to fire an off-camera flash, the lag makes the entire
idea useless; it's got to be at least half a second. The whole idea of the
multi-flash "creative lighting system" is essentially unusable.

The preflash lag when using a single, on-camera flash is manageable. I'm not
a big fan of the look of a single on-camera flash, though, so I basically
never do that. To me, the whole point of the SB-800/600 is to be able to
use them off-camera, which just doesn't work well.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Anonymous
June 9, 2005 11:09:59 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Jeremy Nixon" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
news:11ah3t46hhfs805@corp.supernews.com...
> Robert Brace <rlbrace@shaw.ca> wrote:
>
>> With what combination of equipment did you notice shutter lag.
>
> Using "commander mode" to fire an off-camera flash, the lag makes the
> entire
> idea useless; it's got to be at least half a second. The whole idea of
> the
> multi-flash "creative lighting system" is essentially unusable.
>
> The preflash lag when using a single, on-camera flash is manageable. I'm
> not
> a big fan of the look of a single on-camera flash, though, so I basically
> never do that. To me, the whole point of the SB-800/600 is to be able to
> use them off-camera, which just doesn't work well.
>
> --
> Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com

Ah-Ha, that's why I didn't recognize the condition. My camera doesn't have
the "Commander Mode" and any off-camera flash I use is always with the SC-17
cord and on-camera is most always with the SB-800 tilted to "bounce flash"
position for a somewhat "indirect" lighting effect in an effort to eliminate
the "Deer in the headlights" look.
Bob
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 12:34:20 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 06:17:32 GMT, "Robert Brace" <rlbrace@shaw.ca>
wrote:
>"Jeremy Nixon" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
[..]
>> The shutter lag iTTL introduces is unacceptable to me, anyway. The one
>> time I tried to use it in anger, I was at a friend's house and she wanted
>> me to take some snapshots of her 4-year-old daughter. Well, that sounded
>> like the perfect application for automatic flash. But the shutter lag is
>> so great that I was unable to catch a single moment (4-year-olds don't sit
>> still), and I ended up just switching it to manual anyway.
[..]
>With what combination of equipment did you notice shutter lag. I use the
>SB-800 and have experienced no difference in operation with or without the
>flash attached. I have seen no difficulty in capturing fast moving action
>at all digitally. It seems at least as fast as my F5 and SB-28 combination.
>Bob

As for myself, I have had no problems with the time lag. I use SB-800
on D70s, both mounted on hot shoe and on separate stand under wireless
control by D70s built-in flash in commander mode: there is a shutter
lag of a small fraction of a second for the preflashes and for the
commander flash to send out its commands to the slaves. The lag is too
small for me to worry about it. In practice it does not make any
difference.

If Jeremy Nixon means the time lag for the SB-800 to recharge, that
can be an issue. Using the extra holder for the fifth battery should
help, but I have not tried it (I have yet to see NiMH batteries sold
in sets of 5, or a charger for 5 AA batteries). An external battery
pack or AC power supply would be even better.
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 12:34:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Deedee Tee" <abuse@localhost> wrote in message
news:5e9ga1h8un7pg2ks1ru81p15lieed8uacf@news.alt.net...
> On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 06:17:32 GMT, "Robert Brace" <rlbrace@shaw.ca>
> wrote:
>>"Jeremy Nixon" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
> [..]
>>> The shutter lag iTTL introduces is unacceptable to me, anyway. The one
>>> time I tried to use it in anger, I was at a friend's house and she
>>> wanted
>>> me to take some snapshots of her 4-year-old daughter. Well, that
>>> sounded
>>> like the perfect application for automatic flash. But the shutter lag
>>> is
>>> so great that I was unable to catch a single moment (4-year-olds don't
>>> sit
>>> still), and I ended up just switching it to manual anyway.
> [..]
>>With what combination of equipment did you notice shutter lag. I use the
>>SB-800 and have experienced no difference in operation with or without the
>>flash attached. I have seen no difficulty in capturing fast moving action
>>at all digitally. It seems at least as fast as my F5 and SB-28
>>combination.
>>Bob
>
> As for myself, I have had no problems with the time lag. I use SB-800
> on D70s, both mounted on hot shoe and on separate stand under wireless
> control by D70s built-in flash in commander mode: there is a shutter
> lag of a small fraction of a second for the preflashes and for the
> commander flash to send out its commands to the slaves. The lag is too
> small for me to worry about it. In practice it does not make any
> difference.
>
> If Jeremy Nixon means the time lag for the SB-800 to recharge, that
> can be an issue. Using the extra holder for the fifth battery should
> help, but I have not tried it (I have yet to see NiMH batteries sold
> in sets of 5, or a charger for 5 AA batteries). An external battery
> pack or AC power supply would be even better.

I normally use 2300 mAh NiMh Powerex AA batteries 4 or 5 and when I use the
SD-8A, there are 6 more in the external pack (usually 4 in the flash body
when using the pack). With the SD-8A I have done a series of up to 5
exposures (so far) at 8fps with perfect exposures on each (iTTL, subject at
about 4m distance). That would lead me to believe the lag Jeremy mentions
is not caused by the recycle time (it measures about 3 seconds after full
manual exposure with 5 AA and about 2 seconds with 4 AA and 6 AA in the
SD-8A).
Bob
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 12:34:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Deedee Tee <spam bait: postmaster@127.0.0.1;root@localhost;abuse@localhost;enforcement@sec.gov;cyberfraud@nasaa.org> wrote:

> As for myself, I have had no problems with the time lag. I use SB-800
> on D70s, both mounted on hot shoe and on separate stand under wireless
> control by D70s built-in flash in commander mode: there is a shutter
> lag of a small fraction of a second for the preflashes and for the
> commander flash to send out its commands to the slaves. The lag is too
> small for me to worry about it. In practice it does not make any
> difference.

I find that it is long enough to render the entire idea useless.

That's why I became annoyed that the SB-600 lacks a PC jack and won't
fire off the hot-shoe optical slave I had (I got another one that will
fire it). The only way to use the thing off camera usefully is with a
radio slave or optical slave to another flash.

> If Jeremy Nixon means the time lag for the SB-800 to recharge, that
> can be an issue.

No. I have no issue with recharge time; it can fire over and over
with no recharge wait at all, at the low power settings.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 12:34:22 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Jeremy Nixon" <jeremy@exit109.com> wrote in message
news:11ah479cgp3i02d@corp.supernews.com...
>
> That's why I became annoyed that the SB-600 lacks a PC jack and won't
> fire off the hot-shoe optical slave I had (I got another one that will
> fire it). The only way to use the thing off camera usefully is with a
> radio slave or optical slave to another flash.
>
You _can_ use the SB-600 off the camera with an SC-17 cord. It's
limited in length and there is a longer one. but it works perfectly on a
D70, an N90, and an N75 that way.

Norm
Anonymous
June 10, 2005 12:42:35 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Thu, 09 Jun 2005 12:06:33 +0200, Roxy d'Urban <not@home.com> wrote:

>On Wed, 08 Jun 2005 16:19:18 -0400, Alan Browne wrote:
>
>> DoN. Nichols wrote:
>>
>>> Apparenetly, the diffuser cap which I described above *is* the
>>> equivalent of a Sto-Fen, based on a response in another branch of this
>>> thread (which I read after I posted the above.)
>>
>> I disagee. I have the same widget on my 5600HS and what it is designed
>> for is to spread the flash more for wide angle use. It is flat where the
>> StoFen is a rectangular box of sorts.
>
>Maybe you should research the equipment you opine about prior to making a
>jackass of yourself.
>
>The diffuser dome and the wide-angle diffractor are two totally separate
>features of the SB-800.
>
I happened to see several Sto-fen domes in a Tokyo photography shop
today, and looked at them because I remembered this thread. Apparently
Sto-fen markets about a dozen different models, including one for the
SB-600. They also have coloured domes (I could find no explanation,
but the colors are about right for using the flash together with
fluorescent and incandescent lighting, just like the gelatin filters
of the SB-800). The Sto-fen domes are so similar to the SB-800 dome
that I would think this is made by Sto-fen too.
!