White Balance filter

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
> I saw this filter thingie in B & H's catalog the other day and was
> curious. Anyone ever use one?

No.

> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co [...] 074&is=REG

The ExpoDisc has been discussed in this forum before, and the
concensus seem to be that:
1) it is not very useful (i.e. no substitute for a grey card); and
2) a Pringle's lid do the same thing and cost less.

Btw - the explanation on the B&H page looks bogus to me.
Passing 18 % of diffused ambient light through the ExpoDisc
is not the same thing as 18 % grey reflected from a grey card.
--
- gisle hannemyr [ gisle{at}hannemyr.no - http://folk.uio.no/gisle/ ]
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Kodak DCS460, Canon Powershot G5, Olympus 2020Z
------------------------------------------------------------------------

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Paul H." <xxpaulhtck@zzcomcast.yycom> wrote in message
news:cu-dnVSjU-dEAizfRVn-ow@comcast.com...
>
> "Slack" <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:vMKdnSRCLrkOci3fRVn-uw@giganews.com...
>> I saw this filter thingie in B & H's catalog the other day and was
>> curious. Anyone ever use one?
>>
>>
> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co [...] 074&is=REG
>
> Seems like it has limited utility, IMHO. From the description:
>
> " It is a neutral diffusion filter that gathers ambient light from 180°
> and
> passively transmits 18% of it through to your camera's light meter. The
> resulting "gray frame" accurately represents the average colorcast of the
> light in which the photograph is taken. From this gray frame, you then can
> set a custom white balance that results in accurate color in most lighting
> conditions. Your camera effectively compensates for and neutralizes the
> colorcast it sees through the ExpoDisc 'gray frame.' "
>
> It sounds as if you could accomplish the same thing by slipping a 5-cent
> white styrofoam coffee cup over the front of your lens, then performing a
> custom white balance. Furthermore, since using a gray or white card is
> such
> a triviality (I keep white, gray, and warming-gray cards in the front
> pocket
> of my bag), ExpoDisc seems more like a high-price solution in search of
> a
> problem: I mean, you have to take the thing out, screw it on your lens,
> do
> the white balance procedure, take it off, put it way, then get on with
> your
> picture-taking. I don't see how that's easier, faster, or better than
> using
> a white or gray card, unless you get some odd thrill from the act of
> screwing filters on and off.
>
> And lastly, I can think of other, more useful gizmos to spend $120 on.
>
>

I was particularly interested in this for an underwater application, then
someone mentioned the lid from a Pringles container. That would probably be
a lot cheaper. Perhaps not perfect, but it would get me into the ballpark.
Photoshop could take care of the rest.

I tried a grey card laminated, the lamination was not perfect and it got
soaked. Tried a white slate, that worked fairly well. Some folks just use
the palm of their hand for a reference. Its a bitch, trying to hold the
camera in its housing with a strobe attached, hold a grey card in front,
properly positioned for ambient, using that third hand all photographers
have to press the appropriate button on the housing to set the white
balance, all the while maintaining neutral buoyancy. ARRRRRRHHHH !! Then
when things are all set, we find that the subject has departed.

More suggestions please.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Rudy Benner wrote:

> I was particularly interested in this for an underwater application,
> then someone mentioned the lid from a Pringles container. That would
> probably be a lot cheaper. Perhaps not perfect, but it would get me
> into the ballpark. Photoshop could take care of the rest.

I did a lot of experimentation with different materials and I found the best
to be a piece of white acrylic fluorescent light cover (textured pebble
finish). I mounted a piece in a step-up ring for the various size lenses I
use. It works great and is very fast and easy to use. I leave it of the
front of the lens as a protector/cap as well.



Rita

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <11b3u21c5rufn5b@news.supernews.com>,
Rita Ä Berkowitz <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:
>Rudy Benner wrote:
>
>> I was particularly interested in this for an underwater application,
>> then someone mentioned the lid from a Pringles container. That would
>> probably be a lot cheaper. Perhaps not perfect, but it would get me
>> into the ballpark. Photoshop could take care of the rest.
>
>I did a lot of experimentation with different materials and I found the best
>to be a piece of white acrylic fluorescent light cover (textured pebble
>finish). I mounted a piece in a step-up ring for the various size lenses I
>use. It works great and is very fast and easy to use. I leave it of the
>front of the lens as a protector/cap as well.

However, it strikes me that this would have the same problem for
the requested application as the purchased white-balance filter. How do
you get it on and off the camera in an underwater housing? You can't
take the photos with the white balance filter in place. You've got to
go to the surface to open the housing and remove the filter, and the
light might have changed by the time you get back to the bottom.

And for a pebbled surface, mounting it outside the housing would
have somewhat unpredictable effects, depending on how the index of
refraction of the plastic compares to that of water. It might behave
just like a flat piece of the same material under water.

And if you're using flash underwater, even a 18% gray card
magically waterproofed might not work unless you have a way of holding
it at the same distance from the camera as the subject, as you will be
getting a varying mix of artificial light and light filtered through the
water.

You might try a matte gray paint on some aluminum sheet (not
foil) on a rod mounted below or beside the camera housing.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On 6/16/05 5:07 PM, in article 11b3u21c5rufn5b@news.supernews.com, "Rita Ä
Berkowitz" <ritaberk2O04 @aol.com> wrote:


>
> I did a lot of experimentation with different materials and I found the best
> to be a piece of white acrylic fluorescent light cover (textured pebble
> finish). I mounted a piece in a step-up ring for the various size lenses I
> use. It works great and is very fast and easy to use. I leave it of the
> front of the lens as a protector/cap as well.
>
>
>
> Rita
>
>
Since this discussion (like most discussions) has changed course a bit with
people talking about the methods that they use for white balance I'll add my
2 cents! Here is what I use:
http://www.rawworkflow.com/products/whibal/index.html
The color / white balance card set contains four different color cards - a
dark grey, a white and a black for color balancing and a light grey card for
use in white balancing. They are made out of plastic so they are water
proof and the color goes all the way through the plastic so that scratches
do not affect the color quality. While not a particularly inexpensive
solution, considering how long the cards will probably last they may be
cheap in the long run. Fyi - I have no connection to Michael Tapes or his
products.
Chuck

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:18:58 -0700, Slack
<slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote:

>I saw this filter thingie in B & H's catalog the other day and was
>curious. Anyone ever use one?
>
>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=358074&is=REG

Maybe I am missing something because I am not, nor ever will
be a professional photographer but I do have 25+ years of experience
with 35mm SLR's & 4+ years with Digital cameras.

As a retired E.T., I have learned to maintain the "K.I.S.S."
principle whenever possible. Less than a year ago, I read an article
in a photographic magazine published as a mailed-in tip for setting
custom white balance using an extremely inexpensive (almost free)
common household device. The idea was so simple that it seemed too
good to be true, so the only reasonable thing to do was to try it
against more conventional methods & see if it worked & if, so how
well? It did work & it's now my primary method of setting a custom
WB on both my DSLR & P&S cameras that have a custom WB feature.

The device is a "white coffee filter" that I slip over the
lens & is held in place with a rubber band. Works great indoors where
a gray card may not offer enough light to get a correct WB setting. A
white piece of copy paper may work also but there is no guarantee that
it's reflection will be color spectrum neutral & it, like a gray card,
needs to be propped-up & photographed. This method & device is much
simpler, almost free, faster & works great 95+ % of the time if you
get the exposure correct.

So now each of my camera bags has about 10 "white coffee
filters" & 3 rubber bands inside of zip-lock baggies to keep them
clean. The filters can be used a few times or just once & tossed. If
your outside in direct sunlight overexposure can be a problem but then
I rarely find myself in need of doing a custom WB in direct sunlight
unless it's very early morning or late evening light, in this case
it's usually not too strong to cause overexposure problems.

It sound silly, but considering the cost, (free if you already
have them for your coffee machine) I think it's worth giving it a try
BEFORE telling me about all the reasons why it should or might not
work well. Also I considered that these "white coffee filters" might
also not be 100% neutral in the light that they allow though & there
may also be minor variations depending on the brand & even the lot
number. After all they are designed to filter coffee not diffuse
light evenly across the visible spectrum, however they work just fine
for me & if ever I forget them or run out in the field, they can be
found & purchased in thousands more stores than an 18% gray card can!

Maybe my standards are simply lower than other's but when I
find something that works for me & is very cost effective, I stick
with it & offer it for others to evaluate in the hopes that it will
work for them as well.

Respectfully, DHB


..
"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Rudy Benner wrote:
>
> "DHB" <yoda2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
> news:0dr6b15e3lsvrdlc1olj8pbc23027k9nu2@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:18:58 -0700, Slack
> > <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote:
> >
> >>I saw this filter thingie in B & H's catalog the other day and was
> >>curious. Anyone ever use one?
> >>
> >>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=358074&is=REG
> >
> > Maybe I am missing something because I am not, nor ever will
> > be a professional photographer but I do have 25+ years of experience
> > with 35mm SLR's & 4+ years with Digital cameras.
> >
> > As a retired E.T., I have learned to maintain the "K.I.S.S."
> > principle whenever possible. Less than a year ago, I read an article
> > in a photographic magazine published as a mailed-in tip for setting
> > custom white balance using an extremely inexpensive (almost free)
> > common household device. The idea was so simple that it seemed too
> > good to be true, so the only reasonable thing to do was to try it
> > against more conventional methods & see if it worked & if, so how
> > well? It did work & it's now my primary method of setting a custom
> > WB on both my DSLR & P&S cameras that have a custom WB feature.
> >
> > The device is a "white coffee filter" that I slip over the
> > lens & is held in place with a rubber band. Works great indoors where
> > a gray card may not offer enough light to get a correct WB setting. A
> > white piece of copy paper may work also but there is no guarantee that
> > it's reflection will be color spectrum neutral & it, like a gray card,
> > needs to be propped-up & photographed. This method & device is much
> > simpler, almost free, faster & works great 95+ % of the time if you
> > get the exposure correct.
> >
> > So now each of my camera bags has about 10 "white coffee
> > filters" & 3 rubber bands inside of zip-lock baggies to keep them
> > clean. The filters can be used a few times or just once & tossed. If
> > your outside in direct sunlight overexposure can be a problem but then
> > I rarely find myself in need of doing a custom WB in direct sunlight
> > unless it's very early morning or late evening light, in this case
> > it's usually not too strong to cause overexposure problems.
> >
> > It sound silly, but considering the cost, (free if you already
> > have them for your coffee machine) I think it's worth giving it a try
> > BEFORE telling me about all the reasons why it should or might not
> > work well. Also I considered that these "white coffee filters" might
> > also not be 100% neutral in the light that they allow though & there
> > may also be minor variations depending on the brand & even the lot
> > number. After all they are designed to filter coffee not diffuse
> > light evenly across the visible spectrum, however they work just fine
> > for me & if ever I forget them or run out in the field, they can be
> > found & purchased in thousands more stores than an 18% gray card can!
> >
> > Maybe my standards are simply lower than other's but when I
> > find something that works for me & is very cost effective, I stick
> > with it & offer it for others to evaluate in the hopes that it will
> > work for them as well.
> >
> > Respectfully, DHB
>
> Now all I need to do is figure out a way of using it underwater......

*Idea* - if I use a filter after the coffee is brewed, I can take sepia
colored pictures {:-)

Colin

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> It did work & it's now my primary method of setting a custom
> WB on both my DSLR & P&S cameras that have a custom WB feature.
>
> The device is a "white coffee filter" that I slip over the
> lens & is held in place with a rubber band. Works great indoors where
> a gray card may not offer enough light to get a correct WB setting. A
> white piece of copy paper may work also but there is no guarantee that
> it's reflection will be color spectrum neutral & it, like a gray card,
> needs to be propped-up & photographed. This method & device is much
> simpler, almost free, faster & works great 95+ % of the time if you
> get the exposure correct.
>
> Respectfully, DHB


Awesome... thanks, MacGyver! I love stuff like this.

Plus, it gives me a good excuse for *not* quiting coffee :-) :-)
--
Slack

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Jun 2005 20:45:29 +0100, "Craig Marston"
<binaries.newsgroup@craignospammarston.com> wrote:

>
>"DHB" <yoda2k@verizon.net> wrote in message
>news:0dr6b15e3lsvrdlc1olj8pbc23027k9nu2@4ax.com...
>> On Wed, 15 Jun 2005 20:18:58 -0700, Slack
>> <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote:
>>
>>>I saw this filter thingie in B & H's catalog the other day and was
>>>curious. Anyone ever use one?
>>>
>>>http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productlist&A=details&Q=&sku=358074&is=REG
>>
>> Maybe I am missing something because I am not, nor ever will
>> be a professional photographer but I do have 25+ years of experience
>> with 35mm SLR's & 4+ years with Digital cameras.
>
>DHB you say this quite negatively: I for example am only a professional by
>definition because it's my job, and your experience is as long as the time I
>have been drawing breath! There are a lot of excellent unpaid (I don't like
>to say amateur!) photographers out there that would wipe the floor with some
>of the paid professionals. Unfortunately I know some of these cowboys too..!
>
>Craig.
>

Craig,
there are 2 reasons I made the distinction about my being an
"amateur" photographer:

1> Correctly or not, I associate a professional photographer as
somebody who earns a living taking pictures or at least is paid to do
so on a fairly regular basis. This is not always an indication of
competence however. As an E.T. (Electronic Technician) I have
encountered other E.T.'s that I would not trust to correctly or safely
replace a burned out light bulb! A job title certainly is no
indication or assurance of competence.

2> People tend to be more open minded if you come across with
humility. My ego does not need to be bolstered, so I usually only
post when I think I have something that "may" be of value to others,
not to attempt to prove somebody wrong. On the other hand, I am human
& it does make me feel good when somebody posts back that they tried
something I suggested & it worked for them or that they found benefit
in something I offered.

Just looking for that "win-win" like when I was asked to
photograph a wedding as a back-up photographer with my DSLR. In total
they got about 900 pictures & I gave "all" of them to them that night
on 6 CD's with my blessing to do with them as they wished. They were
very pleased & wanted to pay me but I refused because I told them, I
am doing it to improve my skills, if something useful comes out of it
for you, great, then it's a win-win!

If properly archived those pictures will be around for
countless generations to enjoy & or laugh at long after I am 6 feet
under. And yes I did make mistakes but I also learned a lot from them
& a lot of the pictures came out quite good, especially the candid
ones where I had the advantage over the other photographer because of
being on the sidelines, so to speak.

Lastly, I have found it a huge advantage at the following
reception or similar functions, to give a simple P&S camera to a young
child & ask him or her to go around to each table & take pictures.
They love it, get some great shots too because they see the world from
a very different perspective & few people fail to provide a genuine
smile to a young child with a camera. Again, it's a win-win!

Respectfully, DHB


..


"To announce that there must be no criticism of the President,
or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong,
is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable
to the American public."--Theodore Roosevelt, May 7, 1918