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Swedes curb rampant downloading - BBC report

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Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Swedes curb rampant downloading

Swedes can no longer freely download copyrighted material
Sweden has outlawed the downloading of copyrighted movies, games and
music in an attempt to curb rampant piracy.


(read the whole article at:) 
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4642373.stm
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:9dobc197fsfmct15n1igm18fub04j7936m@4ax.com...
>
> Swedes curb rampant downloading
>
> Swedes can no longer freely download copyrighted material
> Sweden has outlawed the downloading of copyrighted movies, games and
> music in an attempt to curb rampant piracy.
>
>
> (read the whole article at:) 
> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/technology/4642373.stm

Yes....The real problem is that there is no way to effectively enforce these
laws. I liken it to someone leaving a wallet on the sidewalk with money in
it. There are some who would send it back to its rightful owner with the
money untouched. But there are others who wouldn't, and there is no way to
force the finders to do the right thing. What annoys me, is that I can't
find out how much money to send to whom when I want to use some copyrighted
item. IOW, the music (in my case I use a lot of copyrighted music) doesn't
say on it: "Please send $5.00 to Jones publishing company for the right to
make one copy and/or change of this music before June 1st, 2025." So, even
though I would be glad to pay for it, I can't. Or, at least, I can't without
going through Hell to find out how.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:

> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
> store.

This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher is
currently offering them.

For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
they want to reprint.

I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
is amazingly naive.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> writes:

> "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:D M-dnTaMXNGWZVjfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>>
>> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
>> news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>> > Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
>> >
>> >> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
>> >> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
>> >> store.
>> >
>> > This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
>> > New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
>> > etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher is
>> > currently offering them.
>> >
>> > For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
>> > routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
>> > they want to reprint.
>> >
>> > I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
>> > just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
>> > is amazingly naive.
>>
>> Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece
> horn
>> ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
>>
>
> Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do expire
> and works can be abandoned.

Yes, and that's fine, if the stuff I want is from before 1923.

But most of it isn't.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:51 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

G.T. wrote:
> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> news:m2wto93ibm.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> > "G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> writes:
> >
> > > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > > news:D M-dnTaMXNGWZVjfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> > >>
> > >> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> > >> news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> > >> > Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
> > >> >
> > >> >> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
> > >> >> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
> > >> >> store.
> > >> >
> > >> > This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
> > >> > New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
> > >> > etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher
> is
> > >> > currently offering them.
> > >> >
> > >> > For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
> > >> > routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
> > >> > they want to reprint.
> > >> >
> > >> > I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
> > >> > just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
> > >> > is amazingly naive.
> > >>
> > >> Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece
> > > horn
> > >> ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
> > >>
> > >
> > > Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do
> expire
> > > and works can be abandoned.
> >
> > Yes, and that's fine, if the stuff I want is from before 1923.
> >
> > But most of it isn't.
>
> Copyrights don't need to be that old to be abandoned.

Pret' near. And if they are abandoned, who do the copyright holders
notify and where can the rest of the world find the information?
Copyrights these days are not abandoned. They simply run out. Before
the latest iteration of the copyright law, in the U.S., copyrights
could be extended to double their lives. That is no longer possible,
but the original life is about double what the extended life used to
be, so it doesn't much matter.
July 2, 2005 5:38:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

William Graham wrote:

> What annoys me, is that I can't
> find out how much money to send to whom when I want to use some copyrighted
> item. IOW, the music (in my case I use a lot of copyrighted music) doesn't
> say on it: "Please send $5.00 to Jones publishing company for the right to
> make one copy and/or change of this music before June 1st, 2025." So, even
> though I would be glad to pay for it, I can't. Or, at least, I can't without
> going through Hell to find out how.
>
>
I hope that was a joke. Surely, you can't be /that/ dullard.

--
Slack
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
>
>> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
>> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
>> store.
>
> This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
> New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
> etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher is
> currently offering them.
>
> For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
> routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
> they want to reprint.
>
> I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
> just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
> is amazingly naive.

Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece horn
ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:m2wto93ibm.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> "G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> writes:
>
> > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:D M-dnTaMXNGWZVjfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> >>
> >> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> >> news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> >> > Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
> >> >
> >> >> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
> >> >> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
> >> >> store.
> >> >
> >> > This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
> >> > New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
> >> > etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher
is
> >> > currently offering them.
> >> >
> >> > For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
> >> > routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
> >> > they want to reprint.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
> >> > just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
> >> > is amazingly naive.
> >>
> >> Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece
> > horn
> >> ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
> >>
> >
> > Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do
expire
> > and works can be abandoned.
>
> Yes, and that's fine, if the stuff I want is from before 1923.
>
> But most of it isn't.

Copyrights don't need to be that old to be abandoned.

Greg
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Slack" <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote in message
news:vO6dnUPu_uqGdljfRVn-vw@giganews.com...
> William Graham wrote:
>
>> What annoys me, is that I can't find out how much money to send to whom
>> when I want to use some copyrighted item. IOW, the music (in my case I
>> use a lot of copyrighted music) doesn't say on it: "Please send $5.00 to
>> Jones publishing company for the right to make one copy and/or change of
>> this music before June 1st, 2025." So, even though I would be glad to
>> pay for it, I can't. Or, at least, I can't without going through Hell to
>> find out how.
> I hope that was a joke. Surely, you can't be /that/ dullard.
>
> --
> Slack

I'm, afraid I am....Please explain to me why you think so. You know, I am
chiefly annoyed by the fact that the publishers tacitly assume that everyone
intends to cheat them. They can't believe that there is anyone who would
actually pay for the privilege of rearranging their music for his own little
group. They even go to the trouble of hiring roving sleuths to frequent the
bars and bistros listening for their music being played, so they can bust
the bar owners for using their stuff without a license. Of course, bar
owners actually make a living out of it. In my case, I just rearrange music
for a hobby, and don't make a cent.
But nothing gives me a burning desire to cheat someone more than the
tacit assumption that I will cheat them. If they really believe that I will
cheat them, and make it hard for me to not cheat them, well, then I am
certainly glad to do so.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:53 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:D M-dnTaMXNGWZVjfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>
> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> > Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
> >
> >> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
> >> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
> >> store.
> >
> > This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
> > New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
> > etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher is
> > currently offering them.
> >
> > For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
> > routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
> > they want to reprint.
> >
> > I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
> > just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
> > is amazingly naive.
>
> Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece
horn
> ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
>

Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do expire
and works can be abandoned.

Greg
July 2, 2005 5:38:54 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

William Graham wrote:

> "Slack" <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:vO6dnUPu_uqGdljfRVn-vw@giganews.com...
>
>>William Graham wrote:
>>
>>
>>>What annoys me, is that I can't find out how much money to send to whom
>>>when I want to use some copyrighted item. IOW, the music (in my case I
>>>use a lot of copyrighted music) doesn't say on it: "Please send $5.00 to
>>>Jones publishing company for the right to make one copy and/or change of
>>>this music before June 1st, 2025." So, even though I would be glad to
>>>pay for it, I can't. Or, at least, I can't without going through Hell to
>>>find out how.
>>
>>I hope that was a joke. Surely, you can't be /that/ dullard.
>>
>>--
>>Slack
>
>
> I'm, afraid I am....Please explain to me why you think so. You know, I am
> chiefly annoyed by the fact that the publishers tacitly assume that everyone
> intends to cheat them. They can't believe that there is anyone who would
> actually pay for the privilege of rearranging their music for his own little
> group. They even go to the trouble of hiring roving sleuths to frequent the
> bars and bistros listening for their music being played, so they can bust
> the bar owners for using their stuff without a license. Of course, bar
> owners actually make a living out of it. In my case, I just rearrange music
> for a hobby, and don't make a cent.
> But nothing gives me a burning desire to cheat someone more than the
> tacit assumption that I will cheat them. If they really believe that I will
> cheat them, and make it hard for me to not cheat them, well, then I am
> certainly glad to do so.
>
>
Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail store.

If you're a thief, fine, but don't try to cloak it in your
self-righteous BS.
--
Slack - reformed thief
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 5:38:55 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Slack" <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote in message
news:wZednZnOnu0CbVjfRVn-vQ@giganews.com...
> William Graham wrote:
>
>> "Slack" <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:vO6dnUPu_uqGdljfRVn-vw@giganews.com...
>>
>>>William Graham wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>What annoys me, is that I can't find out how much money to send to whom
>>>>when I want to use some copyrighted item. IOW, the music (in my case I
>>>>use a lot of copyrighted music) doesn't say on it: "Please send $5.00 to
>>>>Jones publishing company for the right to make one copy and/or change of
>>>>this music before June 1st, 2025." So, even though I would be glad to
>>>>pay for it, I can't. Or, at least, I can't without going through Hell to
>>>>find out how.
>>>
>>>I hope that was a joke. Surely, you can't be /that/ dullard.
>>>
>>>--
>>>Slack
>>
>>
>> I'm, afraid I am....Please explain to me why you think so. You know, I am
>> chiefly annoyed by the fact that the publishers tacitly assume that
>> everyone intends to cheat them. They can't believe that there is anyone
>> who would actually pay for the privilege of rearranging their music for
>> his own little group. They even go to the trouble of hiring roving
>> sleuths to frequent the bars and bistros listening for their music being
>> played, so they can bust the bar owners for using their stuff without a
>> license. Of course, bar owners actually make a living out of it. In my
>> case, I just rearrange music for a hobby, and don't make a cent.
>> But nothing gives me a burning desire to cheat someone more than the
>> tacit assumption that I will cheat them. If they really believe that I
>> will cheat them, and make it hard for me to not cheat them, well, then I
>> am certainly glad to do so.
> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you purchase
> them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail store.
>
> If you're a thief, fine, but don't try to cloak it in your self-righteous
> BS.
> --
> Slack - reformed thief

Oh. For a while there, I thought you knew something that I didn't. I see now
that it's the other way around. You obviously don't understand my problem.
You see, the music I buy in the, "retail store" just doesn't cut it. It is
probably a piano piece, and I probably found it in a tub at a used book
store, and it's probably 30 years old, and the publisher doesn't exist
anymore. My problem is that I don't want piano music. - What I want is the 5
parts for a horn ensemble like the Canadian Brass, or the Pacific Brass. I
don't even know whether this music exists. So, I have to create it from the
piano music, or from the original people who got it from the original
composer. I am adept at doing this, so I buy it, bring it home and enter it
into my Encore program on my computer. (This is a copyright violation, right
off the bat) Then I listen to it a few times on playback, and, if I like
what I hear, I begin the task of rearranging it for the five piece band
ensemble. (another copyright violation) When I am done (several hours later)
I send it to the group in question, and, if I have done a good job, they
will perform it for the public in a theatre lobby, or a gazebo in the park,
or somewhere, and my reward is just hearing my work performed.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 11:10:52 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

In many country, rampant piracies of copyrighted materials have been
committed. I think intellectual rights should be preserved. Without it,
we can not be guaranted to use any of infra provided by various act.
Nobody gives efforts to make something new and innovative. For more
brilliant future, rampant piracies of copyrighted material should be
banned.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 1:08:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Tony Polson" <tp@nospam.net> wrote in message
news:9dobc197fsfmct15n1igm18fub04j7936m@4ax.com...
>
> Swedes curb rampant downloading
>
> Swedes can no longer freely download copyrighted material
> Sweden has outlawed the downloading of copyrighted movies, games and
> music in an attempt to curb rampant piracy.

I was once a victim of rampant downloading: While I was out on the town one
night, a group of toughs knocked me to the ground, rifled my pockets, and
took my PDA, my mp3 player and even my digital watch. While a couple of
them held me down, several of the others stuck cables into every conceivable
orifice of my equipment, occasionally muttering things like, "Ahhh...fresh
data...", in an almost sensual way. When they had finished ravaging my
gizmos, they cavalierly tossed them onto my prostrate form as their evident
leader sneeringly remarked, "And you thought the Digital Millenium
Copyright Act would protect you? Fool." He threw back his head, and in a
basso profundo voice issued a hellish laugh which sounded a lot like,
"Mmmmwooo ha ha ha ha ha!" Then the group melted into the night, leaving
me, as the tabloids say, "feeling violated."

Thank God those stalwart defenders of liberty, the Swedes, are finally doing
something about the problem!
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 3:15:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

Yongwoo.Shin@gmail.com wrote:
> In many country, rampant piracies of copyrighted materials have been
> committed. I think intellectual rights should be preserved. Without it,
> we can not be guaranted to use any of infra provided by various act.
> Nobody gives efforts to make something new and innovative. For more
> brilliant future, rampant piracies of copyrighted material should be
> banned.

Yeah, they should. That's not what we're talking about. The worst
offenders against copyright are the Communist Chinese, followed in
direct order by the various Communist countries: getting most of them
to even admit intellectual rights EXIST is a major chore.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 7:50:07 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:11cc586ecoskc84@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:D M-dnTaMXNGWZVjfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>>
>> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
>> news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>> > Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
>> >
>> >> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
>> >> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
>> >> store.
>> >
>> > This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
>> > New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
>> > etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher is
>> > currently offering them.
>> >
>> > For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
>> > routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
>> > they want to reprint.
>> >
>> > I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
>> > just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
>> > is amazingly naive.
>>
>> Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece
> horn
>> ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
>>
>
> Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do expire
> and works can be abandoned.
>
> Greg
>
>
Exactly....And the expiration date should be printed on every work
published. Otherwise, how can you expect people to know to whom, and how
much, they should pay? It isn't bad enough that they expect us to pay, but
they also expect us to do the research to find out! As I say, it's like the
wallet left lying on the street. If I pick it up, they will arrest me if I
don't investigate the ownership to its natural conclusion......
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 7:55:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:11cc9qk7pg2nua5@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> news:m2wto93ibm.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>> "G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> writes:
>>
>> > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> > news:D M-dnTaMXNGWZVjfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>> >>
>> >> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>> >> > Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
>> >> >> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
>> >> >> store.
>> >> >
>> >> > This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
>> >> > New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
>> >> > etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher
> is
>> >> > currently offering them.
>> >> >
>> >> > For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
>> >> > routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
>> >> > they want to reprint.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you
>> >> > can
>> >> > just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
>> >> > is amazingly naive.
>> >>
>> >> Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece
>> > horn
>> >> ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do
> expire
>> > and works can be abandoned.
>>
>> Yes, and that's fine, if the stuff I want is from before 1923.
>>
>> But most of it isn't.
>
> Copyrights don't need to be that old to be abandoned.
>
> Greg
>
>
This is true, and the problem is knowing which are, and which aren't. All I
ask is that they put the expiration date, and their name and address on all
the stuff they publish, so it doesn't take several hours of my time finding
it out. Maybe they could all get together and establish a central clearing
house for that information? - You know, sort of a club for music publishers,
where anyone can call at anytime of the day or night, and get information
and/or permission to use any work for any purpose. I think they'd be
surprised at how many honest people there are......
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 8:13:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Charlie Self" <charliediy@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1120328136.407446.173360@g49g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>
>
> Yongwoo.Shin@gmail.com wrote:
>> In many country, rampant piracies of copyrighted materials have been
>> committed. I think intellectual rights should be preserved. Without it,
>> we can not be guaranted to use any of infra provided by various act.
>> Nobody gives efforts to make something new and innovative. For more
>> brilliant future, rampant piracies of copyrighted material should be
>> banned.
>
> Yeah, they should. That's not what we're talking about. The worst
> offenders against copyright are the Communist Chinese, followed in
> direct order by the various Communist countries: getting most of them
> to even admit intellectual rights EXIST is a major chore.
>
Yes, and I often wonder how much of our money they counterfeit every year,
too........
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 9:00:16 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Slack" <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote in message
news:wZednZnOnu0CbVjfRVn-vQ@giganews.com...
> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you purchase
> them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail store.
>
> If you're a thief, fine, but don't try to cloak it in your self-righteous
> BS.
I don't download a lot of music, but what I have downloaded I have done so
because it is no longer in print. I would buy it on CD (or vinyl for that
matter) if it could be purchased like that. I am prepared to pay for it, I
just can't. So what do I do?
I have an old computer that isn't capable of running any version of windows
greater than 3.1 - MS no longer supply 3.1 but it is still copyrighted. it
_can_ be downloaded but that is illegal. So do I consign the computer to the
scrap heap or do I pirate 3.1?
I want to learn how to play a piece of music but the publishers no longer
print sheet music for it (lets assume it is a piece from the 70's - still
very much in copyright, but very likely to no longer be published). I find a
library or a friend that has it - do I photocopy it?
I want some reference material from a book that is now out of print, but not
old enough to be public domain. Do I photocopy the relevant sections when I
borrow it from the library?
To think that everything that is copyrighted is available to be purchased in
a retail store is totally naive. Personally I think there need to be
provisions in copyright law that allow for free copying if the
publisher/copyright holder has published an item, but is no longer making
copies available. The publisher doesn't rescind copyright, and of course
still has the right to reproduce the item for a fee if they wish, but if
they don't make reproductions available then they shouldn't be able to
pursue those who do make copies for personal use (not for resale) for
infringing copyright. Such a provision obviously isn't suitable for limited
production items like artwork or photographic works, but should be
applicable to published music, texts and software.

> --
> Slack - reformed thief
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 9:00:17 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"Justin Thyme" <pleasedontspamme@nowhere.com> wrote in message
news:aYqxe.619$8i.9675@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>
> "Slack" <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote in message
> news:wZednZnOnu0CbVjfRVn-vQ@giganews.com...
> > Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
purchase
> > them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail store.
> >
> > If you're a thief, fine, but don't try to cloak it in your
self-righteous
> > BS.
> I don't download a lot of music, but what I have downloaded I have done so
> because it is no longer in print. I would buy it on CD (or vinyl for that
> matter) if it could be purchased like that. I am prepared to pay for it, I
> just can't. So what do I do?
> I have an old computer that isn't capable of running any version of
windows
> greater than 3.1 - MS no longer supply 3.1 but it is still copyrighted. it
> _can_ be downloaded but that is illegal. So do I consign the computer to
the
> scrap heap or do I pirate 3.1?
> I want to learn how to play a piece of music but the publishers no longer
> print sheet music for it (lets assume it is a piece from the 70's - still
> very much in copyright, but very likely to no longer be published). I find
a
> library or a friend that has it - do I photocopy it?
> I want some reference material from a book that is now out of print, but
not
> old enough to be public domain. Do I photocopy the relevant sections when
I
> borrow it from the library?
> To think that everything that is copyrighted is available to be purchased
in
> a retail store is totally naive. Personally I think there need to be
> provisions in copyright law that allow for free copying if the
> publisher/copyright holder has published an item, but is no longer making
> copies available. The publisher doesn't rescind copyright, and of course
> still has the right to reproduce the item for a fee if they wish, but if
> they don't make reproductions available then they shouldn't be able to
> pursue those who do make copies for personal use (not for resale) for
> infringing copyright. Such a provision obviously isn't suitable for
limited
> production items like artwork or photographic works, but should be
> applicable to published music, texts and software.
>

Quit being so anal. If no one is selling something than use it as you see
fit as obviously no one cares. If you make a ton of money off something
then I'm sure the copyright holder will come crawling out of the woodwork.
Otherwise, all the above sounds like fair use to me.

And about Windows 3.1, run Linux on that old machine, you'll be much
happier.

Greg
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 9:00:18 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:11cdsllpmd6nf3@corp.supernews.com...
>
> "Justin Thyme" <pleasedontspamme@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:aYqxe.619$8i.9675@nnrp1.ozemail.com.au...
>>
>> "Slack" <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> wrote in message
>> news:wZednZnOnu0CbVjfRVn-vQ@giganews.com...
>> > Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
> purchase
>> > them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail store.
>> >
>> > If you're a thief, fine, but don't try to cloak it in your
> self-righteous
>> > BS.
>> I don't download a lot of music, but what I have downloaded I have done
>> so
>> because it is no longer in print. I would buy it on CD (or vinyl for that
>> matter) if it could be purchased like that. I am prepared to pay for it,
>> I
>> just can't. So what do I do?
>> I have an old computer that isn't capable of running any version of
> windows
>> greater than 3.1 - MS no longer supply 3.1 but it is still copyrighted.
>> it
>> _can_ be downloaded but that is illegal. So do I consign the computer to
> the
>> scrap heap or do I pirate 3.1?
>> I want to learn how to play a piece of music but the publishers no longer
>> print sheet music for it (lets assume it is a piece from the 70's - still
>> very much in copyright, but very likely to no longer be published). I
>> find
> a
>> library or a friend that has it - do I photocopy it?
>> I want some reference material from a book that is now out of print, but
> not
>> old enough to be public domain. Do I photocopy the relevant sections when
> I
>> borrow it from the library?
>> To think that everything that is copyrighted is available to be purchased
> in
>> a retail store is totally naive. Personally I think there need to be
>> provisions in copyright law that allow for free copying if the
>> publisher/copyright holder has published an item, but is no longer making
>> copies available. The publisher doesn't rescind copyright, and of course
>> still has the right to reproduce the item for a fee if they wish, but if
>> they don't make reproductions available then they shouldn't be able to
>> pursue those who do make copies for personal use (not for resale) for
>> infringing copyright. Such a provision obviously isn't suitable for
> limited
>> production items like artwork or photographic works, but should be
>> applicable to published music, texts and software.
>>
>
> Quit being so anal. If no one is selling something than use it as you see
> fit as obviously no one cares. If you make a ton of money off something
> then I'm sure the copyright holder will come crawling out of the woodwork.
> Otherwise, all the above sounds like fair use to me.
>
> Greg

This is what I've decided. I buy, beg, borrow, or steal anything that I want
to play or have my friends play. I rearrange it to suit me or them, and we
play it to our hearts content. Screw the system. We just can't be bothered
with their antiquated narrow-minded, impossible to comply with, laws. They
have already decided we are all thieves, and they go out of their way to
treat us as such, so why should I disappoint them? When they come up with a
workable system that any normal human being can use, then I will use it. But
until then, I will merrily go on my way doing what I have to do in order to
survive. IOW, as long as they leave the wallet lying on the sidewalk stuffed
with money, and without any name and address in it, I will just pick it up
and spend it.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 9:14:21 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

William Graham wrote:
> "G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
> news:11cc586ecoskc84@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
> > news:D M-dnTaMXNGWZVjfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
> >>
> >> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> >> news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> >> > Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
> >> >
> >> >> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
> >> >> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
> >> >> store.
> >> >
> >> > This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
> >> > New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
> >> > etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher is
> >> > currently offering them.
> >> >
> >> > For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
> >> > routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
> >> > they want to reprint.
> >> >
> >> > I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
> >> > just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
> >> > is amazingly naive.
> >>
> >> Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece
> > horn
> >> ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
> >>
> >
> > Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do expire
> > and works can be abandoned.
> >
> > Greg
> >
> >
> Exactly....And the expiration date should be printed on every work
> published. Otherwise, how can you expect people to know to whom, and how
> much, they should pay? It isn't bad enough that they expect us to pay, but
> they also expect us to do the research to find out! As I say, it's like the
> wallet left lying on the street. If I pick it up, they will arrest me if I
> don't investigate the ownership to its natural conclusion......

Life of the creator plus 75 years can make calculations difficult.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 9:28:55 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> writes:

> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
> news:m2wto93ibm.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>> "G.T." <getnews1@dslextreme.com> writes:
>>
>> > "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> wrote in message
>> > news:D M-dnTaMXNGWZVjfRVn-qw@comcast.com...
>> >>
>> >> "David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
>> >> news:m2mzp63quy.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
>> >> > Slack <slacker7_ReMoVe_ThIs@scglobal.net> writes:
>> >> >
>> >> >> Unbelievable. These are, for the most part, retail products, you
>> >> >> purchase them where a normal, law abiding person would: a retail
>> >> >> store.
>> >> >
>> >> > This works well enough if what you want is the latest top-40 hit or
>> >> > New York Times bestseller. But a great many of the CDs, books,
>> >> > etc. that I have I *can't* buy another copy of because no publisher
> is
>> >> > currently offering them.
>> >> >
>> >> > For that matter, editors assembling anthologies of old fiction
>> >> > routinely have trouble locating the owner of the rights to stories
>> >> > they want to reprint.
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm not super-especially in favor of theft; but thinking that you can
>> >> > just go to the store and buy another copy of whatever it is you have
>> >> > is amazingly naive.
>> >>
>> >> Yes. Try finding the Soldiers Chorus from Faust arranged for a 5 piece
>> > horn
>> >> ensemble at your local music store. (I just finished this yesterday)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Have you not heard of a thing called public domain. Copyrights do
> expire
>> > and works can be abandoned.
>>
>> Yes, and that's fine, if the stuff I want is from before 1923.
>>
>> But most of it isn't.
>
> Copyrights don't need to be that old to be abandoned.

But you have to conclusively prove anything newer *is* public domain,
you can't prove it just based on a date.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 1:53:45 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> writes:

> This is what I've decided. I buy, beg, borrow, or steal anything
> that I want to play or have my friends play. I rearrange it to suit
> me or them, and we play it to our hearts content. Screw the
> system. We just can't be bothered with their antiquated
> narrow-minded, impossible to comply with, laws. They have already
> decided we are all thieves, and they go out of their way to treat us
> as such, so why should I disappoint them? When they come up with a
> workable system that any normal human being can use, then I will use
> it. But until then, I will merrily go on my way doing what I have to
> do in order to survive. IOW, as long as they leave the wallet lying
> on the sidewalk stuffed with money, and without any name and address
> in it, I will just pick it up and spend it.

I know too many people who make their *living* from writing and from
music to find that a comfortable position. *Your* survival is never
in question -- or at least, access to works of art has little impact
on it. *Their* survival *is*. Musicians and writers make among the
lowest incomes of anybody (except for a very few "bestsellers" at the
top).

So, basically, you're saying you're willing to rip off people who
barely make a living as it is, for the sake of your convenience. I
don't find this a particularly admirable position.
--
David Dyer-Bennet, <mailto:D d-b@dd-b.net>, <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/&gt;
RKBA: <http://noguns-nomoney.com/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/carry/&gt;
Pics: <http://dd-b.lighthunters.net/&gt; <http://www.dd-b.net/dd-b/SnapshotAlbum/&gt;
Dragaera/Steven Brust: <http://dragaera.info/&gt;
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 1:53:46 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

"David Dyer-Bennet" <dd-b@dd-b.net> wrote in message
news:m2acl4zjk6.fsf@gw.dd-b.net...
> "William Graham" <weg9@comcast.net> writes:
>
>> This is what I've decided. I buy, beg, borrow, or steal anything
>> that I want to play or have my friends play. I rearrange it to suit
>> me or them, and we play it to our hearts content. Screw the
>> system. We just can't be bothered with their antiquated
>> narrow-minded, impossible to comply with, laws. They have already
>> decided we are all thieves, and they go out of their way to treat us
>> as such, so why should I disappoint them? When they come up with a
>> workable system that any normal human being can use, then I will use
>> it. But until then, I will merrily go on my way doing what I have to
>> do in order to survive. IOW, as long as they leave the wallet lying
>> on the sidewalk stuffed with money, and without any name and address
>> in it, I will just pick it up and spend it.
>
> I know too many people who make their *living* from writing and from
> music to find that a comfortable position. *Your* survival is never
> in question -- or at least, access to works of art has little impact
> on it. *Their* survival *is*. Musicians and writers make among the
> lowest incomes of anybody (except for a very few "bestsellers" at the
> top).
>
> So, basically, you're saying you're willing to rip off people who
> barely make a living as it is, for the sake of your convenience. I
> don't find this a particularly admirable position.

No. What I am saying is that those people have given me no choice. In the
first place they have guarded their ability jealously, and prevented me from
learning what they know legitimately. I know, because I tried to go to their
schools (where, presumably they had all the music they needed to learn to
arrange with) But they wouldn't let me in. So, I had to learn their trade
the hard way. They refused to provide me with the learning tools to learn my
instrument, so I had to obtain them the hard way also. Now, some 20 years
later, after I scraped and groveled in order to learn how to play my
instrument, and to arrange without their damned schools, I am doing it for
myself, and anyone and everyone who wants it......FOR FREE! And they can all
go, collectively, to HELL.......
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 5:06:11 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems,rec.photo.equipment.35mm (More info?)

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 01:38:50 +0100, Tony Polson <tp@nospam.net> wrote:

>
>Swedes curb rampant downloading
>
>Swedes can no longer freely download copyrighted material
>Sweden has outlawed the downloading of copyrighted movies, games and
>music in an attempt to curb rampant piracy.

....while our Minster of Justice simultaneously states that the law
isn't intended to chase downloading teenagers, and most law experts
seem to agree that the law is pretty toothless for most purposes.

Clear case of sending mixed signals, I daresay.

Jan Böhme
Korrekta personuppgifter är att betrakta som journalistik.
Felaktigheter utgör naturligtvis skönlitteratur.
!