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Anonymous
July 2, 2005 6:19:15 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Qwestion for the Nikon and Canon camps. I'm looking a moving into
digiital. My current system in the OM system. They have/had a great
mmarophoto group. With a bellows and extention tubes and their macro
lenses I shoot alot at above 1:1 some up to >10:1. Do either of the
systems have or support bellows or extention tubes. Thanks.
Anonymous
July 2, 2005 9:41:14 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <qbodc199ni7vcprb12cm7a6qa9sbtrp3ek@4ax.com>,
Like Sci Fi <olsenron@qwest.net> wrote:
>Qwestion for the Nikon and Canon camps. I'm looking a moving into
>digiital. My current system in the OM system. They have/had a great
>mmarophoto group. With a bellows and extention tubes and their macro
>lenses I shoot alot at above 1:1 some up to >10:1. Do either of the
>systems have or support bellows or extention tubes. Thanks.

The Nikon D70 will support quite old bellows (manual exposure
only), as there is no bellows that I know of for the Nikons which
connects the electrical contacts from the lens to the camera body.

There are some sets of extension tubes which include the
electrical contacts to relay information from a lens CPU to the camera
body. For others, you will also be in the "manual only" camp.

If you're using lenses which don't have CPU contacts to start
with, you will be manual only in any case. And at 10:1 or greater, I
would worry about any built-in metering system working to start with.
(Does your OM do so, or are you doing manual metering for that?)

For that matter, at 10:1 or greater, I would expect that you are
using the lens on a reversing adaptor anyway, and that would probably
put your TTL metering out of operation anyway. :-)

As for the Cannon, I'll have to leave that to others to answer,
but I would be surprised if it did less than the Nikon in this field.

Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnichols@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 12:35:36 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Thanks for all your replies. Food for thought. I use my OM 2 with
the 20mm macro. TTL OTF flash control is great but with digital might
not be so important.
Related resources
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 1:17:50 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Like Sci Fi wrote:
> Qwestion for the Nikon and Canon camps. I'm looking a moving into
> digiital. My current system in the OM system. They have/had a great
> mmarophoto group. With a bellows and extention tubes and their macro
> lenses I shoot alot at above 1:1 some up to >10:1. Do either of the
> systems have or support bellows or extention tubes. Thanks.

Both have extention tubes and bellows available. Extention tubes often
have electrical contacts (a must for electrically controlled apertures).

Novoflex makes bellows with electrical contacts for many cameras
(including Nikon and Canon). Here's a link for Canon model:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=produ...

Canon has MP-E65 f2.8 1-5X Macro lens available. No idea if Nikon has a
similar product available.

Older lenses with manual aperture blades are another possibility. With
suitable adapters the can be made to fit with bellows as well. Metering
works still well, aperture is not indicated by the camera though.

1:1 macro + 2x teleconverter should get you at 2:1 magnification. Using
a digital camera with 1.3-1.6 crop factor that gives you the
magnification equal to 2.6-3.2X on a full frame camera. Consider a crop
factor with canon 1-5x lens as well!
--
Harri
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 4:53:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sat, 02 Jul 2005 14:19:15 -0600, Like Sci Fi <olsenron@qwest.net>
wrote:

>Qwestion for the Nikon and Canon camps. I'm looking a moving into
>digiital. My current system in the OM system. They have/had a great
>mmarophoto group. With a bellows and extention tubes and their macro
>lenses I shoot alot at above 1:1 some up to >10:1. Do either of the
>systems have or support bellows or extention tubes. Thanks.

I also used to have the OM system, OM-2N with bellows, 20mm, 135mm
macro with extending auto tube and all that (I still have some left).
A fine system indeed, but probably hard to find on the used market
now.

I know nothing about Canon, but since this year I use a Nikon D70s for
macro and scientific photography at work. I use mostly the Micro
Nikkor 60 mm (for some reason Nikon call their macro lenses "Micro",
while microphotography is of course an entirely different thing) and
the Sigma Apo Macro 180 mm. These lenses can work in full automatic
mode down to 1:1 (i.e., an 18x24mm subject size, not 24x36). Auto
exposure is fine, but of course I use only manual focus for macro.
With a Tamron 2x FL multiplier I get down to 2:1 (9x12mm) with full
auto, and also keep the same lens-to-subject distance as 1:1. The
Nikon FL multipliers don't have all auto transmissions.

For higher magnification I have the Nikon PB-6 bellows, which are
essentially identical to the OM system bellows in all features. One
catch is that you have to rotate the body mount of the PB-6 by 90 deg.
before you can mount a DSLR body. Afterwards you can rotate it back
and use the camera in the same position as the OM. However, one catch
with the D70s (and also D70, D50) is that exposure works only in
manual mode and no TTL metering is available (I know, it would be
technically feasible, but Nikon chose not to implement it). You can
get around this by making a couple of test shots by setting the
exposure time manually and checking the histogram on the camera's LCD
before taking a "real" shot. It is easier done than you think. It also
gives you better control on exposure than trusting the camera in auto
mode. You must turn a handle on the bellows or use a release cord to
stop down the diaphragm before you shoot, just like the OM bellows
(but you cannot use the double OM release cord with a Nikon DSLR,
bcause no model has a thread on the release button). If you absolutely
need auto exposure with bellows, probably you can get it with some of
the (much) more expensive Nikon bodies.

The Nikon SB-600 and SB-800 flashes (I use the latter) are fine for
macro, and work in much the same way as the TTL OM flashes. Nikon
DSLRs use preflashes for metering, because they cannot read the light
reflected by the sensor during the actual flash exposure like OM film
cameras.

There are third-part (probably Kenko) extension tubes that keep all
auto transmission, but I have not tried these (some users complain
that they are made of plastic and can bend a little and loose
electrical contact with heavy lenses). There are Nikon extension
tubes, but as far as I know not with all auto transmission.

If you have a lot of OM macro lenses to mount on the OM bellows, you
can keep all this and have an adapter made (or probably someone sells
ready-made ones by e-mail order) to mate the OM bellows with the Nikon
body. It is also possible, but more expensive, to modify the OM
bellows permanently with a Nikon bayonet. Also this requires manual
exposure with the D70s (maybe it will work in auto exposure with the
D1X and D2X, but I am not sure). This would be the cheapest possible
solution. It does not apply to lenses that must mount directly on the
camera body, of course.
Anonymous
July 3, 2005 8:04:03 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Like Sci Fi" <olsenron@qwest.net> wrote in message
news:mptfc1d0f2e00o41fh73lun7jivqcbf7er@4ax.com...
> Thanks for all your replies. Food for thought. I use my OM 2 with
> the 20mm macro. TTL OTF flash control is great but with digital might
> not be so important.

I agree that you will probably be using your experience and manual modes
more than all the whistles and bells a new DSLR can provide. I've seen some
great shots taken with Nikon DSLR's and older manual bellows. Nikon never
changed their mount in all these years, but not everything you can find will
couple to the meter or autofocus.

Manual ain't that much different on DSLR, unless the lenses are made for the
electronics on the camera. Some new "digital" lenses have no manual
aperture control on the lens and have to couple to the electronics on the
camera. Older and other lenses have aperture rings, and when not coupled to
the electronics work just like any lens. Adjust the shutter speed in the
camera and the aperture on the lens -- just like the good old days. :-)
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 3:02:08 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 03 Jul 2005 09:17:50 +0300, Harri Suomalainen
<harri.suomalainen@nospam.iki.fi> wrote:

[..]
>Canon has MP-E65 f2.8 1-5X Macro lens available. No idea if Nikon has a
>similar product available.
[..]

No. But check http://www.goko.co.jp/e_site/camera/lz/cont.htm
Anonymous
July 4, 2005 5:26:00 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:04:03 -0600, "Sheldon"
<sheldon@XXXXXXXXsopris.net> wrote:

>
>"Like Sci Fi" <olsenron@qwest.net> wrote in message
>news:mptfc1d0f2e00o41fh73lun7jivqcbf7er@4ax.com...
>> Thanks for all your replies. Food for thought. I use my OM 2 with
>> the 20mm macro. TTL OTF flash control is great but with digital might
>> not be so important.
>
>I agree that you will probably be using your experience and manual modes
>more than all the whistles and bells a new DSLR can provide. I've seen some
>great shots taken with Nikon DSLR's and older manual bellows. Nikon never
>changed their mount in all these years, but not everything you can find will
>couple to the meter or autofocus.
>
>Manual ain't that much different on DSLR, unless the lenses are made for the
>electronics on the camera. Some new "digital" lenses have no manual
>aperture control on the lens and have to couple to the electronics on the
>camera. Older and other lenses have aperture rings, and when not coupled to
>the electronics work just like any lens. Adjust the shutter speed in the
>camera and the aperture on the lens -- just like the good old days. :-)
>

The Zeiss Contarex system for the 1960's had no aperture control on
the lens and was coupled to the camera body and it's light meter. That
is not new and not limited to "digital" lenses"


*********************************************************

"I have been a witness, and these pictures are
my testimony. The events I have recorded should
not be forgotten and must not be repeated."

-James Nachtwey-
http://www.jamesnachtwey.com/
Anonymous
July 6, 2005 10:23:40 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <qbodc199ni7vcprb12cm7a6qa9sbtrp3ek@4ax.com>, Like Sci Fi
<olsenron@qwest.net> writes
>Qwestion for the Nikon and Canon camps. I'm looking a moving into
>digiital. My current system in the OM system. They have/had a great
>mmarophoto group. With a bellows and extention tubes and their macro
>lenses I shoot alot at above 1:1 some up to >10:1. Do either of the
>systems have or support bellows or extention tubes. Thanks.

The Canon DSLRs work very effectively when attached to bellows or
microscopes, and the TTL metering is still effective. Just set to
aperture priority. You may need to apply a little exposure compensation
for a given range of magnification, but once found it should be
consistent for any subject.

I have not used Nikon DSLRs, but a very experienced photomicrographer
friend who has a Nikon D70 has told me the TTL metering does not work,
and he finds it a real pain (in fact last time I spoke to him he was
seriously contemplating selling his Nikon gear to buy a 1Ds MkII).

If you really only wish to use the body for bellows macro work, then the
suggestion made by someone else to have an adapter to fit it on to your
Olympus bellows seems the best; it will avoid a lot of expense. From the
above two paras you will see that I believe the Canon bodies will be
much more satisfactory.

One side-note on terminology - which I mention not out of pedantry, but
rather because if you look for information using the wrong names you are
likely to miss most of it (especially that from those who are genuine
experts):

Photomacrography is the production of highly magnified photos of small
subjects using a single lens; typically the magnification ranges from
1:1 to 50:1. Purists would say that magnifications of less that 1:1 is
better called close-up photography.

Photomicrography is the production of very highly magnified images using
a compound microscope, typically in the range 20:1 to 1500:1

[Microphotography is the production of very tiny photographs, such that
they require a microscope to see - they were very popular in Victorian
times. This has absolutely nothing to do with photomicrography.]

What you are doing, of course, falls exactly into the area of
photomacrography, and if you look for books or do a web search, that is
the name under which you will find (almost) all the advice from experts.

David
--
David Littlewood
Anonymous
July 12, 2005 5:59:31 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David Littlewood <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote:

> I have not used Nikon DSLRs, but a very experienced
> photomicrographer friend who has a Nikon D70 has told me the TTL
> metering does not work, and he finds it a real pain (in fact last
> time I spoke to him he was seriously contemplating selling his Nikon
> gear to buy a 1Ds MkII).

That's a heck of a jump from a D70! Suffice it to say that metering
with bellows works fine on the pro Nikons too.

Andrew.
!