White Balance Questions

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Wonsowski" <awonsow@atattglobal.network> wrote in message
news:ftgjc1ttorsq9n4fcltvhal4dimsigjjbf@4ax.com...

> 4. Now to the Air and Space Museum. Indoors-Florescent lighting. Do I
> need to change the balance again?
>

Just an FYI ...

The Air and Space museum actually has a mix of tungsten and flourescent
lighting. But I believe they use color balanced flourescent as I have not
experienced a color shift using standard films.

Enjoy the visit (hypothetically, of course).

Walt

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <ftgjc1ttorsq9n4fcltvhal4dimsigjjbf@4ax.com>, Alan Wonsowski
<awonsow@atattglobal.network> wrote:

> I will soon purchase a D70s. The topic of "white balance" to improve
> digital photo light and color rendition is occasionally mentioned in
> this group. It is my understanding that the white balance in the
> camera needs to be adjusted whenever light conditions change. I'm
> concerned that this is a lot of work and could be inconvenient. What
> follows is a hypothetical tourist visit to Washington, DC. Would the
> following photo opportunities require a white balance change?

I carry a small 15% gray card and can do a custome whitre balance very
quickly... Basically take one shot of the card.

I bought a "The Last Gray Card" from filmtools.com. They are currently
showing out of stock.

=-=-=-=-=
The Last Grey Card. It is all but impossible to create glare on it due
to its soft, slightly textured matte surface - you don¹t have to twist
and tilt to find it¹s proper light. It is extremely rugged and
washable.

Cinematographer Steven Poster, ASC gives this review:

³One of my all time favourite tools is something called The Last Grey
Card. It is a plastic based, painted surface which is washable. It
comes in 4"x5" and 8"x10".

The 4x5 card is the perfect size to fit in a 4x5 Tiffen Filter case
and fit in your back pocket.

The surface has always given me a good standard to meter by. The paint
was designed scientifically to have the grey value with neutral color
components.²
=-=-=-=-=-=

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> I will soon purchase a D70s. The topic of "white balance" to improve
> digital photo light and color rendition is occasionally mentioned in
> this group. It is my understanding that the white balance in the
> camera needs to be adjusted whenever light conditions change.

Yes, this is also true of film cameras. Except with film cameras, the
work adjustment consists of removing one entire roll of film and
replacing it with another - daylight film versus tungsten film. Whereas
on a digital, it's a matter of a couple of button presses. At least,
with most digital SLR's it is this easy. Some P&S digitals hide this
setting deep in menus, where it would indeed be a paint to change, if
they offer it at all.

Of course, the camera still works if you have the wrong type of balance
selected - you just get picutres with an unnatural color cast to them
(blue-faced people shot outdoors with tungsten film or WB setting,
orange-faced people shot indoors with daylight film or WB setting).

Most digitals have an auto WB setting that does a decent job of
adjusting on the fly, so in this sense, it is far better than film. So
you shoot with that setting, then look at the result on the LCD to see
if you need to atually swtich to another setting. With my Pentaxc
*istDS, I find that indoors in tungten lighting, I do usually need to
set that explicitly. Auto works fine just about any other time.

Yes, you *can* carry a white card and use the "manual" WB setting, but
that's definitely more work than you need. The predefined "sunshine",
"shade", "tungsten", "flourescent" and other settings should be more
than enough. And as someone observed, if you shoot RAW, you can always
fix it later.

Note that changing the ISO equivalence is actually at least as much if
not more of an issue as you change lighting conditions. Again, film is
no better - and there you have to change whole rolls of film, not just
press a couple of buttons. But taking indoor pictures with no flash
will require higher ISO settings than outdoor pictures.

--------------
Marc Sabatella
marc@outsideshore.com

The Outside Shore
Music, art, & educational materials:
http://www.outsideshore.com/

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Mon, 04 Jul 2005 19:35:21 -0400, Alan Wonsowski wrote:

> I will soon purchase a D70s. The topic of "white balance" to improve
> digital photo light and color rendition is occasionally mentioned in this
> group. It is my understanding that the white balance in the camera needs
> to be adjusted whenever light conditions change. I'm concerned that this
> is a lot of work and could be inconvenient. What follows is a hypothetical
> tourist visit to Washington, DC. Would the following photo opportunities
> require a white balance change?
>
> 1. First stop - Ford's Theater. Indoors - Inside lighting is with low
> light tungsten bulbs. I plan to take photos without flash. Is a balance
> correction required?

Set to "tungsten." Tweak balance in post.

> 2. Next stop, Lincoln Memorial. Statue is deep in the shadows with natural
> light. Do I need to make a white balance adjustment here using the natural
> light? What if I use a flash?

Set for "daylight" or "cloudy" for a little warming effect. You'd have to
have a pretty big flash to fill the inside of the Lincoln Memorial from
the shooting position. Not impossible. I've done it. Not with the
Lincoln Memorial, but I've fill flashed a two story building. (Okay.
If you must know: 4 1000 watt-second power packs, 4 heads, each
across the street -- about 100 feet -- from the building.) Or position
someone behind one of the columns either side of Lincoln, aiming the flash
at the Lincoln statue, and fire the flash remotely, when you shoot the
outside of the memorial.

> 3. Now on to the World War II Memorial. Outdoors with bright sunshine. Is
> another balance change needed?

Daylight or Cloudy.

> 4. Now to the Air and Space Museum. Indoors-Florescent lighting. Do I need
> to change the balance again?

Tough call. Set for the predominate light source. Doesn't the A&S Museum
have a wall of glass in some exhibits to let in natural light? In that
case, daylight balance or if it's not direct sunlight, but just skylight
-- cloudy. Or do a custom white balance using anything handy that's
"white."

> This seems like a lot of adjustments. Assuming I will need to make them,
> what is the best way to do this. Should I carry a white card with me or is
> there some other practical way to do this on the fly? Suggestions would be
> appreciated.

Not many. 2, maybe 3.

Mostly, I just use the pre-set white balances -- daylight, cloudy,
tungsten, etc. -- and fine tune the color balance, if necessary, in post
production. Sometimes, shots that are color shifted because of improperly
set white balance or mixed light sources can produce unique and
striking images.

And FWIW, with mixed lighting sources (of different color temperatures),
you can NEVER get "correct" white balance, or color balance to use the
pre-digital term, in a single exposure. You can only strive to obtain a
average, "pleasing to the eye" color balance. (You can get true color
balance with mixed sources, but it requires a heavy tripod, a light touch
on the shutter and cocking lever, and multiple exposures of each light
source with the others turned off, color correcting for each source, and
building, partial exposure by partial exposure, the final color "true"
image. Not an easy thing to do and get it right. Or spend about 3 days
with PhotoShop masking off areas and individually correcting them. I'd
rather do the in-camera, multiple exposures. Faster.

Stefan

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Wonsowski <awonsow@atattglobal.network> wrote:

> This seems like a lot of adjustments. Assuming I will need to make
> them, what is the best way to do this. Should I carry a white card
> with me or is there some other practical way to do this on the fly?
> Suggestions would be appreciated.

You want an ExpoDisc. Better than a white card. You can also use it to
meter for 18%.

<http://www.expodisc.com/>

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In message <pan.2005.07.06.02.35.08.954035@thisaddress.com>,
stefan patric <not@thisaddress.com> wrote:

>And FWIW, with mixed lighting sources (of different color temperatures),
>you can NEVER get "correct" white balance, or color balance to use the
>pre-digital term, in a single exposure. You can only strive to obtain a
>average, "pleasing to the eye" color balance. (You can get true color
>balance with mixed sources, but it requires a heavy tripod, a light touch
>on the shutter and cocking lever, and multiple exposures of each light
>source with the others turned off, color correcting for each source, and
>building, partial exposure by partial exposure, the final color "true"
>image. Not an easy thing to do and get it right. Or spend about 3 days
>with PhotoShop masking off areas and individually correcting them. I'd
>rather do the in-camera, multiple exposures. Faster.

Do you ever leave them slightly off-balance, just to have a hint that
they were different, without the bold difference of literal mixed
lighting?
--

<>>< ><<> ><<> <>>< ><<> <>>< <>>< ><<>
John P Sheehy <JPS@no.komm>
><<> <>>< <>>< ><<> <>>< ><<> ><<> <>><

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

usenet@mile23.c0m (Paul Mitchum) wrote:

> Alan Wonsowski <awonsow@atattglobal.network> wrote:
>
>> This seems like a lot of adjustments. Assuming I will need to make
>> them, what is the best way to do this. Should I carry a white card
>> with me or is there some other practical way to do this on the fly?
>> Suggestions would be appreciated.
>
> You want an ExpoDisc. Better than a white card. You can also use it to
> meter for 18%.
>
><http://www.expodisc.com/>
>

You're still making the usually incorrect assumption that the scene
averages out to a neutral gray.

I'll take a styrofoam cup over an Expodisc any day.