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A hard choice...

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November 22, 2012 2:46:09 PM

So, I am trying to decide between a Gtx 670 FTW+ 4GB, HD 7970 toxic/vapor-x 6GB, or some 2/3 way sli config costing the same amount. I want to run 3 monitors on high/ ultra settings. Each monitors are 1920x1080. Thanks in advance guys.
-Hilo

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a b U Graphics card
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November 22, 2012 3:11:55 PM

I'm afraid you're asking a bit much there from £300 of graphics card - they're awesome cards but not enough to max settings at 5760x1080. Take a look here to see what kind of muscle is required for that:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/radeon-hd-7990-devil13-79...

Even £800 hardware is struggling there. You could always buy a single GTX670, enjoy max settings on a single screen (or much lower settings across three) and then add a second in SLI a year down the line when the price has dropped. Dual GTX670s will deliver comparable performance to the GTX690 in those tests.
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November 22, 2012 3:17:25 PM

sam_p_lay said:
I'm afraid you're asking a bit much there from £300 of graphics card - they're awesome cards but not enough to max settings at 5760x1080. Take a look here to see what kind of muscle is required for that:

http://www.tomshardware.co.uk/radeon-hd-7990-devil13-79...

Even £800 hardware is struggling there. You could always buy a single GTX670, enjoy max settings on a single screen (or much lower settings across three) and then add a second in SLI a year down the line when the price has dropped. Dual GTX670s will deliver comparable performance to the GTX690 in those tests.

Does the extra amount of frame buffer 4GB or 6GB help at all when it comes to eyefinity or nvidia surround. (Multi-monitor)
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a b U Graphics card
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November 22, 2012 3:21:52 PM

Hilo1222 said:
Does the extra amount of frame buffer 4GB or 6GB help at all when it comes to eyefinity or nvidia surround. (Multi-monitor)


That certainly is something that large memory comes in useful for, but within reason - I think that much is probably excessive (6GB certainly - I have that much system RAM!). As for 4GB, there's a slim chance it could be helpful in that regard, would be interested if anyone could offer knowledge in that regard.

Be aware though that 2x 2GB cards doesn't equal 4GB available for the frame buffer - it's still 2GB. Same goes for dual-GPU cards. A 4GB GTX690 is splitting that memory between each of its GPUs, so still a 2GB frame buffer. Each GPU renders every other frame with that 2GB memory available to it.
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a b U Graphics card
November 22, 2012 3:23:18 PM

Yes sure it does. Sam is right . U need to SLI /CF powerful cards to get that .

Give your budget for the first card.

Maybe u can get a deal Gtx 680 ?

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November 22, 2012 3:37:15 PM

Neither is a 2x2GB or 2x3GB card, the 7970 6GB is around $600. So I'm wondering whether a 660ti sli config would be good or should I just get a 670 OC, or 680 OC. What is the Frame buffer going to help me with texture rendering, or multi-monitor output?
Edit: 660ti*
-Hilo
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a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
November 22, 2012 3:42:12 PM

Hilo1222 said:
Neither is a 2x2GB or 2x3GB card, the 7970 6GB is around $600. So I'm wondering whether a 66ti sli config would be good or should I just get a 670 OC, or 680 OC. What is the Frame buffer going to help me with texture rendering, or multi-monitor output?


Textures haven't advanced to the point yet where that much memory could be utilised, though neither have screen resolutions. Grab a GTX670 and max it on a single screen. Of course not all games have the same requirements - although the games benchmarked there will need a lot more muscle for max settings at 5760x1080, other less demanding games (I'm thinking games like Unreal Tournament 3 or Modern Warfare/Black Ops) look good without being too demanding on hardware. Maybe play those across three screens, and just use a single screen for games like Battlefield 3 or Crysis 2.
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a b U Graphics card
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November 22, 2012 3:44:34 PM

And from my limited understanding of the mechanics of rendering 3D graphics, texture resolution should be unrelated to the frame buffer - the frame is the flat, final image to be output, so resolution of the textures used to create that frame should have no bearing on it. I generally advise not getting too caught up in the technical side of it though when you can just look at benchmarks and see the final result, rather than speculating on it :-)
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November 22, 2012 3:47:18 PM

So, super high end 670 or high end 680?
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a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
November 22, 2012 3:54:57 PM

Well it's up to you, but I'd personally buy a stock GTX670 if I was planning to add a second in SLI down the line. You have to keep in mind that to SLI these cards, they need to be the same, and that includes clock speeds. If you're OK with changing clock speeds then you could buy any other GTX670 and just raise/lower frequencies so they match.

If you don't want to void your warranties though, you need two cards that have the same speed by default, and your best bet for that is stock speeds. If your second card is purchased a year from now, prices will be way lower, but stock levels will be also. If you get one today with some weird 113MHz overclock or something, you'd need to be able to find one with the same overclock in a year if you don't want to void warranties by changing the speed yourself.

Factory overclocks are generally not game-changers anyway - there are GTX670s sold at speeds that match GTX680 stock speeds, but it's not saying much when the two are so close already - you're only closing a 5% performance gap there. I think a better use of your money is buying from a manufacturer who offers a long warranty - EVGA, Gigabyte and PNY all give three years in the UK. If you register your details within 30 days of purchase, EVGA extend that to five or ten years. And if your card(s) die in 9 years, they're gonna be replacing it with something a lot better than a GTX670!
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a b U Graphics card
November 22, 2012 3:59:07 PM

I would say get the Gtx 680 and have it for some time. Asus /evga would be the best .

But 670 is good too. Just get the 680 if u get it for cheap if not go for the 670
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November 22, 2012 5:37:37 PM

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/oya3
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/oya3/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/oya3/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($24.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($70.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($70.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 4GB Video Card ($437.86 @ Newegg)
Sound Card: Asus Xonar DG 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card ($28.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom (Black) ATX Full Tower Case ($119.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: PC Power & Cooling Silencer Mk II 950W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($143.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS424-98 DVD/CD Writer ($29.98 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VH236H 23.0" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VH236H 23.0" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VH236H 23.0" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1846.68
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-22 14:53 EST-0500)
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Edit : Now all prices from newegg. :D 
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a b U Graphics card
November 22, 2012 5:48:03 PM

So why u need 32 Gb ?

Is that the FTW version ?

The PSU is just great but are u thinking to SLI?

670Sli can get max to 330W
So add 100W CPU (A good OC :D  )
32W Ram
1W SSd
15W hdd
25W Dvd

= 503W so lets make it 550W

So why u need 950W ?

I reccomend getting http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168... Agreat Psu and Power enough to add a 3 Gtx 670 :) 

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November 22, 2012 5:58:01 PM

The 32 GB will be divided on 16-24 for a tekkit server and 8 for os and gaming. The GTX 670 is the FTW+ 4GB version. I plan on doing a lot of oc'ing (CPU) and oc'd sli (obviously GPU). Plus the multitude of fans that my case will use (NZXT Crafted Series).
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a b U Graphics card
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November 22, 2012 6:00:53 PM

That Seasonic PSU is a really nice bit of kit. Good SSD choice by the way. Recommend updating the firmware on it ASAP though when you get set up.
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a b U Graphics card
November 22, 2012 6:02:16 PM

Hmm i get it but fans barely consume 2W so thats not the point for getting 950 W

So that seasonic is way better and can get up 900W easily :) 

That gtx is great !
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November 22, 2012 7:30:20 PM

I can't wait to put this thing together, how well will do you think this thing perform in gaming? Also I updated it with the seasonic PSU. Hmmm, should I get a 4 way 690 sli config? JKJKJKJKJK. But, tell me how this rig will perform with gaming and applications.
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Le Updated Rig:
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/oQGr
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/oQGr/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/oQGr/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Newegg)
CPU Cooler: Enermax ETS-T40-TB 86.7 CFM CPU Cooler ($34.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($127.98 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($70.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($70.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($74.99 @ Newegg)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 4GB Video Card ($437.86 @ Newegg)
Sound Card: Asus Xonar DG 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card ($28.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom (Black) ATX Full Tower Case ($90.00 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 750W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS424-98 DVD/CD Writer ($29.98 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VH236H 23.0" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VH236H 23.0" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: Asus VH236H 23.0" Monitor ($149.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1805.69
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-22 16:29 EST-0500)
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a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
November 22, 2012 8:37:26 PM

My guess would be very well indeed :-)

Just two points - firstly, the 4GB graphics memory. Just the same thing as clock speed matching - if you add a second card when they've come down in price, there will be far fewer models to choose from. If you end up having to pair it with a 2GB model, then either half your first card memory will be disabled, or it just won't work at all. Just something to keep in mind. My brother bought a 2GB GTX560 Ti (they're 1GB as standard) and now can't SLI because it's only 1GB models still available.

Second thing is monitors... what made you decide on those monitors? Not saying it's a bad choice, but I personally wouldn't use TN-panel TFTs - I'd stick to IPS purely for colour quality/accuracy, superior blacks and no colour shift/compression. If the 2ms response time is really important to you though then you would need to stick with TN displays like those.
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a b U Graphics card
November 23, 2012 9:41:57 AM

Yes will do pretty well :) 

And about the Hdd why dont u get a Black Wd or Seagate. I have personaly better exp with them.

And Hyper 212 Evo maybe ? I have it and performs great.

1 More thing u will need Sli to play decently games on 3D Surround.
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a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
November 23, 2012 9:43:45 AM

Samsung are actually owned by Seagate now (well, just the storage division obviously). Reliability is generally excellent with them :-)
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a b U Graphics card
November 23, 2012 10:01:15 AM

sam_p_lay said:
Samsung are actually owned by Seagate now (well, just the storage division obviously). Reliability is generally excellent with them :-)


Well thank you for the info :) 

But still i recc WD black :) 

P.s Right now im repairing sectors on my notebook Samsung Hdd. 3 samsung that shows problems -.-
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a b U Graphics card
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November 23, 2012 4:24:07 PM

Yeah the thing with hard disks is that there's not a single manufacturer out there that hasn't put out faulty drives... I personally steer clear of WD because of bad experiences and stick with Seagate and Samsung, though I know plenty of people have problems with those too. I always had good experiences with IBM Hitachi, but of course they were famous for the 'Deathstar' line always dying. So I think it's luck of the draw. My HDD is a Seagate Barracuda 11 series. The 11 series was supposed to have major reliability issues but mine is still running flawlessly after three years and receiving 1.5TB of downloads.
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a b U Graphics card
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November 23, 2012 4:27:42 PM

Related point there - you probably already would anyway, but keep important documents on your SSD. Obviously documents are only small files anyway, and they're safer on the SSD than on an HDD. And of course keep backups anyway. I'd never store my important documents on HDD now, too risky.
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November 23, 2012 5:49:43 PM

sam_p_lay said:
My guess would be very well indeed :-)

Just two points - firstly, the 4GB graphics memory. Just the same thing as clock speed matching - if you add a second card when they've come down in price, there will be far fewer models to choose from. If you end up having to pair it with a 2GB model, then either half your first card memory will be disabled, or it just won't work at all. Just something to keep in mind. My brother bought a 2GB GTX560 Ti (they're 1GB as standard) and now can't SLI because it's only 1GB models still available.

Second thing is monitors... what made you decide on those monitors? Not saying it's a bad choice, but I personally wouldn't use TN-panel TFTs - I'd stick to IPS purely for colour quality/accuracy, superior blacks and no colour shift/compression. If the 2ms response time is really important to you though then you would need to stick with TN displays like those.

I was looking at an IPS but they were $179.99, I know the advantages. But, I think I will end up going with a 7970 or 680, I want a high end card with a lot of vram, the FTW+ doesn't even seem to be on the evga site anymore O_o. I think I might go with a decent 7970, that shows promise of keeping integrity of sales. I will end up getting a liquid cooling kit for mah processor, it will be ice cold. :pt1cable:  But, I am going to update the parts list one last time, so give me some advice on the 7970's. :D 
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a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
November 23, 2012 6:59:43 PM

Just be careful with that water cooling. I have a couple of friends that tried it and ended up watering their components when a bit of tubing came loose. Turns out graphics cards can actually dry out pretty well, but I wouldn't recommend testing that :-)

To be honest, the extra money you'd put on a GTX680 would cover the price difference of the IPS displays and you'd have a lot more to show for it. Your call of course, just be aware that the GTX680 only has a 5% framerate lead on the GTX670 - that's the difference between 40fps and 42fps. The 7970 has is no faster at all on average than the GTX670.

If you do decide to go with the 7970 though, I'd advise steering clear of Sapphire cards if you want it to last beyond its warranty. I've owned three Sapphire Radeons. One died 4 months after the warranty expired, one died 6 months after (though started to become faulty 2 months after expiry) and one actually died the same month the warranty expired! You could time your watch by these things dying - they're built to self-destruct.

Powercolor are poor quality, and VTX3D are the same guys (Tul Corporation). Lots of people have had serious issues with HIS cards as well. Leaves Asus, MSI, Gigabyte and XFX. Of those, Gigabyte offer the best warranties (though maybe research warranty terms where you are - they vary by country).
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November 23, 2012 8:24:37 PM

Well, I'm in the U.S. and I don't plan on water cooling my GPU, voids teh warranty don't you know (excluding EVGA waterblock models). So, now that you raise the info of the 670 being just as good as the 7970, which should I get?
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a b U Graphics card
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November 23, 2012 8:28:40 PM

670 :-) Dunno about American prices, but here it's £270 vs more than £300 for the Radeon. You're probably already aware, but you know overclocking voids the warranty too? This being said, I'm not sure about the specifics of how they can tell it's overclocked (I guess it's something they don't want people knowing how to circumvent). I know some hardware has a marker in the BIOS though that is set when clock speeds are adjusted. I wouldn't do it personally until the warranty expires.
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November 24, 2012 2:05:28 AM

Well, I went a bit overbudget but I'm happy.
Le Build V3.1.1 (Beta):
PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/p8KE
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/p8KE/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/p8KE/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($199.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($104.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($62.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance LP 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($62.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung Spinpoint F3 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($88.98 @ Newegg)
Storage: OCZ Vertex 4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($114.99 @ Microcenter)
Video Card: EVGA GeForce GTX 670 2GB Video Card ($359.99 @ Newegg)
Sound Card: Asus Xonar DG 24-bit 96 KHz Sound Card ($28.98 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom (Black) ATX Full Tower Case ($101.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 750W 80 PLUS Gold Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS424-98 DVD/CD Writer ($29.98 @ Newegg)
Monitor: ViewSonic VX2370Smh-LED 23.0" Monitor ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: ViewSonic VX2370Smh-LED 23.0" Monitor ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Monitor: ViewSonic VX2370Smh-LED 23.0" Monitor ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Other: Swiftech H2O-x20 Edge HD ($229.95)
Other: Gtx 670 FTW Backplate ($19.99)
Other: Dual 12" Cold Cathode UV Lights ($9.99)
Other: Feser View Active UV Dye (Clear) ($0.99)
Other: I & H Silver Kill-coils (.9999 silver) ($6.99)
Other: PrimoFlex Pro LRT Tubing (1/2" x 3/4") 6 ft. ($15.00)
Total: $2018.74
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-11-23 23:03 EST-0500)
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a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
November 24, 2012 8:35:54 AM

Nice :-) I didn't notice sound card and optical before - not critical components anyway but you're probably fine without a sound card unless you have special requirements for audio. And I've had bad experiences with Lite-On writers - many coasters created. I don't trust any optical drive brand other than Samsung now. Minor components anyway though - the important stuff is all really good choices!

EDIT: Is that IPS monitors on there now? If so, that spec is even nicer than I realised ;-)
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November 24, 2012 1:03:32 PM

Those screens are indeed ips, they are going to be awesome. Can't wait for this build, I still have a large summer of money to save up. The liquid cooling is going to be beast. Hopefully this will run all the games I need it to.
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a b U Graphics card
November 24, 2012 1:10:49 PM

This will blast all the games you need to on 1 screen :p 

And on 3 u will have to lower quality on some games. Till u get the second 670 !
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a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
November 24, 2012 1:40:51 PM

^ what he said :-) IPS is awesome - you made the right choice there! Have to admit I'm a bit jealous of this setup - it's exactly what I'd be putting together is I was getting a new setup now. When will you be buying it?
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November 24, 2012 6:03:15 PM

Probably sometime within the next year. Still debating about parts for my water cooling. I think I'm gonna stay with swiftech and get some different tubing. Hope the blue goes well with my case. And @prototype, I plan on gaming on the middle screen, managing an MC server on another, and browsing with the other. :p  I love PC so much right now. What color should I get for tubing/ uv dye?
P.S. Deadmau5, that is all.
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November 24, 2012 6:09:53 PM

Best answer selected by Hilo1222.
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a b U Graphics card
a b C Monitor
November 24, 2012 8:19:53 PM

Blue is pretty sweet, or purple if you can get it :-) I'd get sick of green/red after a while... personal preference though! Thanks for the best answer :-) Maybe post back here again if you haven't bought it within 6 months - Intel, AMD and nVidia will all have new lines out by then and prices will have changed a lot.
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November 25, 2012 3:37:08 AM

True dat, I decided on the CM Storm Stryker, and no prob. :D 
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