tunhabab

Distinguished
Apr 5, 2001
7
0
18,510
Ok, I know that using raid must have more than one hardisk.Then the searching time is faster. Is that all ???
So what's the difference between one 60g and 30g+30g ?
Thkz a lot.
Dont reply if too stupid
 

AMD_Man

Splendid
Jul 3, 2001
7,376
2
25,780
RAID 0 improves the overall performance of hard drives, as well as combine the capacities of two or more hard drives. With 2 hard drives in a RAID 0, you have nearly twice the throughput in all disk intensive tasks! Copying files, opening files, booting Windows, etc, all will be improved by RAID 0. RAID 1, on the other hand, improves reliablity. If you hard drive crashes, you won't lose your work...

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 

Ron_Jeremy

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
333
0
18,780
RAID with IDE drives is a joke. The <b>only</b> thing it's good for is the extra channels. It has become a great marketing ploy. To add to this, many of the latest disks perform <b>very</b> poorly in RAID.

Why don't you try running your system in RAID & see if you folders "open quicker"? By the way, running level 1 or 5 won't make anything redundant if your controller takes a holiday.

Want <b>fast & safe</b> data? Get yourself a pair of Fish:

<A HREF="http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,384,00.html" target="_new">http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/discsales/marketing/detail/0,1081,384,00.html</A>

or a couple these:

<A HREF="http://www.westerndigital.com/products/products.asp?DriveID=24" target="_new">http://www.westerndigital.com/products/products.asp?DriveID=24</A>

and run them as JBOD's. Your system will fly with a current top IDE drive, <b>and</b> you will be able to back things up on the 2nd one. While you're at it, throw the pagefile on the non-system disk too.

Forget IDE RAID man, you will be better off.

Cheers,

Ron_Jeremy

If you loan a friend $20 & never see them again, it was worth it.
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
Nice buffer on the western digital....Still confused by your commenting on IDE and JBOD's in the same sentence. I do agree with you on your assement of the current state of affairs with IDE and software raid. The performance increase in access is there, but the cpu utilization is huge when useing software IDE RAID.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
 

AMD_Man

Splendid
Jul 3, 2001
7,376
2
25,780
lol, ignore this guy. He doesn't have a clue what he's talking about. RAID significantly improves hard disk performance in file copying, boot up times, program loading, and many other things. Seriously, I don't know where this guy is getting his info but it's definitely <b> WRONG</b>.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 

AMD_Man

Splendid
Jul 3, 2001
7,376
2
25,780
Yes, I can't believe he's recommending JBOD over RAID 0. What a waste! JBOD does nothing to improve performance, it merely merges the disk space of all the drives.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 

Ron_Jeremy

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
333
0
18,780
My apologies, I used JBOD incorrectly. I meant to use the drives as independent disks. Sorry, I was too tired when I posted...

Cheers,

Ron_Jeremy

If you loan a friend $20 & never see them again, it was worth it.
 

AMD_Man

Splendid
Jul 3, 2001
7,376
2
25,780
I understand, hehe. It happens to me too. Anyway, I still disagree with the fact that you say RAID 0 is useless. Many people here will disagree with you.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
Yes, I can't believe he's recommending JBOD over RAID 0. What a waste! JBOD does nothing to improve performance, it merely merges the disk space of all the drives.
While I agree Ron made a mistake on his use of the term Jbod, your comment is way off base. Man you are totally wacked. First of all a Jbod setup ( just a bunch of disks) refers to any number of disks in a raid array, housed in a seperate enclosure. So, one could easily have 4 10-15k SCSI/fibre drives in a seperate enclosure, striped in Raid O that would slap your cheesy Ide raid setup silly. Not to mention the controller being used (typically with a 266 mhz mips processor) would significantly offload the performance hit you take on processor utilization when using those software IDE raid controllers.

Do a little research before you make a totally false statement like this again please.


It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
Nobody said Raid O is useless, risky perhaps but not useless. It is the use of IDE raid ( in any Raid array) that is being questioned.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
 

AMD_Man

Splendid
Jul 3, 2001
7,376
2
25,780
<A HREF="http://whatis.techtarget.com/definition/0,289893,sid9_gci343350,00.html" target="_new">Check this</A>

Also, if you have an IDE RAID controller such as the Promise Fastrak100 TX2, then you would know that setting up a JBOD is nothing more than combining the capacites of two or more drives into one logical drive that would be seen in Windows. I do not under how you can have JBOD + RAID 0, it's one or the other.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
<A HREF="http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.html?prodkey=PM3755F&cat=%2fTechnology%2fRAID%2fAdditional+RAID+Products" target="_new">http://www.adaptec.com/worldwide/product/proddetail.html?prodkey=PM3755F&cat=%2fTechnology%2fRAID%2fAdditional+RAID+Products</A>
It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
 

AMD_Man

Splendid
Jul 3, 2001
7,376
2
25,780
I don't see your point. So what if it support JBOD? An equvalient RAID (SCSI RAID, in this case) will still outperform it.

AMD technology + Intel technology = Intel/AMD Pentathlon IV; the <b>ULTIMATE</b> PC processor
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
I am not explaining myself as I should have. First, to set the record straight, Raid 0 is not even really true raid ( Redundant Array of Inexpensive Disks). Now, as for a jbod setup, perhaps you are right, its a bit of tricky terminolgy. Lets say I take a controller, the qlogic 2100. I then connect three drives in a jbod config. Now, when using the right OS, (In this case win 2k or win xp) I can setup my array with these disks by that means. Now, if this then means the array is no longer a jbod, which after I think about it it very well might, then you are correct.

Another option would be to do the same except this time with two controllers and two seperate jbod configs, one on each controller, then stripe the two jbods.

This may sound rather costly but you would be amazed at what it can be done for.

9.1 gig 10k drives with 4 meg cache buffer( 6ms access) $10.00
18.2 gig 10k drives with 4 meg cache buffer( 6ms access) $26.00
36.7 gig 10k drives with 4 meg cache buffer( 5ms access) $50.00
qlogic 2100 64 bit ( 32 bit backwards compatable) $50.00
2-4 drive backplane $100-200.

Now campared to the cost of a IDE RAID 0 config, lets say 2 30-40 gig IDE drives and a promise raid controller, your going to find cost will be almost equall.


It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
 
G

Guest

Guest
One question:

Where are you finding 10K RPM, 36.7GB, 4MB buffer, 5ms, drives for $50. I really want to get me a piece of that action.
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
Ebay, among a few others. Do remember these are special drives {fibre channel} and to use them you will need the other components I listed as well. If you only wanted to use one, then you would need only a 50 dollar t-card + the controller. Second, you would need to run win2k, NT or xp.

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
 

Freeway

Distinguished
Dec 20, 2001
39
0
18,530
*bump* very informative thread! I'd like to see more on this subject since my new mobo has raid onboard(first time for me)
 
G

Guest

Guest
Darn I was hoping you were talking about SCSI drives. Sounds pretty cost effective for that kind of speed though. Since I don't know a thing about micro channel, I geuss I need to head on over to google.com first.

Cool, new geekware to check out.
 
G

Guest

Guest
There is no doubt that "real" (read very expensive) SCSI raid controllers with 4 10-15K drives will easily out-class IDE raid, but IDE raid is becomming an affordable option for home users - I'd have to sell my house (well, almost...) to be able to afford a SCSI raid setup like that! I see IDE raid being used at home, not in servers for businesses.

I'm considering an IDE raid setup at the moment - using 2 40GB IBM 60GXP drives (mode 0) and an IDE raid controller (software raid - no thanks!) - probably the Promise TX2 controller. Obviously, the transfer rates whould be better than a single drive solution, but what about CPU utilisation and access time? Additionally, does the fact that you effectivley have twice the drive cache (4Mb (2*2Mb) vs 2Mb) really have any impact on performance?
 

Lars_Coleman

Distinguished
Feb 9, 2001
1,020
0
19,280
The drive cache isn't all what makes the RAID array faster. The stripe size plays a big part in that. For example when you take a 128K file and your stripe size is 64K it will write 64K to both drives making it twice as fast to write one file. You follow? So the more cache and the faster the spin rate of the drive, the faster it will write that 64K file.

I myself am happy with my IDE RAID setup, but would like SCSI. I'm not about ready to trust anyone on Ebay for one. IDE is slower but gives me enough performance at minimal cost.
 
G

Guest

Guest
Ahh - sorry... I thought you were talking about SCSI drives too... I echo the above commments! Is fibre channel/whatever something that a home user could use? With the talk about backing planes/extra stuff/etc, I get the impression that something "bigger" (rack housing, etc) is involved.

I'm off to google too...
 
G

Guest

Guest
Goodness me! You're right about the prices at ebay...
Does anyone have any experience of using fibre channel with desktop PCs? Is it an option? ***big question - can machines boot from fibre channel drives?***
As networking also seems possible with fibre channel (goodbye old ethernet!), this could be a something that really changes the way I build my machines...
 

Ncogneto

Distinguished
Dec 31, 2007
2,355
53
19,870
networking with fire channel? ou sure you are not taking about fire wire? Yes you can boot to fire wire but need an OS that suuprots it ( win NT, win2k, winxp).

It's not what they tell you, its what they don't tell you!
 
G

Guest

Guest
No - networking over fibre channel - I've seen several references to this now.

And the bootable question was with reference to fibre channel drives. I've a 2nd machine with a dog-old hard drive that is dying; booting via a (shared?) small disk-pack (jbod?) would be marvellous.