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Pioneer DVL-919 negatives?

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Anonymous
September 15, 2004 2:23:49 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

howdy folks,

i remember reading a post once that outlined some negatives about the 919 as
a laserdisc player, can someone please mention those again.

i was considering grabbing one, but perhaps im looking for a reason not to
outlay so much cash... :-)

cheers!!
Anonymous
September 15, 2004 2:23:50 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Simple answer is that the CLD-D704 is a better LD player and costs much
less. Sharper picture and DVNR. Of course you cannot play a DVD in the 704
but you can buy better separates than what you would pay for a DVL-919. Of
course if space is an issue and need a combo player the 919 is the best
non-Elite choice.

Kurtis

"BlackBeltJones" <joe@thatswhatshesaid.com.au> wrote in message
news:41478b16$1_1@news.iprimus.com.au...
> howdy folks,
>
> i remember reading a post once that outlined some negatives about the 919
as
> a laserdisc player, can someone please mention those again.
>
> i was considering grabbing one, but perhaps im looking for a reason not to
> outlay so much cash... :-)
>
> cheers!!
>
>
Anonymous
September 15, 2004 2:23:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I don't have any direct expericence with the combo units. But according to
AudoRevolution.com and several older NG posts I found via Google, the DVL-90's
LD section was taken directly from the CLD-79, a very highly-regarded player.
However, some people here contest that it was really the CLD-D606 that gave
it's LD section to the DVL-90, and it has known compatibility problems with
some DVDs.
Steve Grauman
Related resources
Anonymous
September 16, 2004 10:35:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

There is no way that the Elite 79 was used for the LD section of the
Elite DVL 91. I think the confusion lies in the fact that both players
have adjustable DVNR.
When I had my Elite 91, I made a direct comparison between it, and my
Elite 79. There is a noticeably softer picture on the 91.
When I made a direct comparison between the 91 and my DVL 700, the
picture was the same.
Kevin
Anonymous
September 17, 2004 6:36:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>There is no way that the Elite 79 was used for the LD section of the
>Elite DVL 91. I think the confusion lies in the fact that both players
>have adjustable DVNR.

Well AudioRevolution seemed pretty confident. And at least one of the posters
whos comments I read via Google said that his info came straight from Pioneer.

> When I had my Elite 91, I made a direct comparison between it, and my
>Elite 79. There is a noticeably softer picture on the 91.

The 91- may have had an entirely different LD section than the 90. It was a 2nd
generation combo player and Pioneer's focus had moved toward DVD.

> When I made a direct comparison between the 91 and my DVL 700, the
>picture was the same.

I don't know for sure that the LD section of the 700 is exactly the same as
what came in the 90. I'm well aware that the 90 was supposed to be the "Elite"
version of the 700 but outside of Pioneer I'd venture to say that very few of
us know for sure what hardware differences there were. Beyond that, Ty
Chamberlin's review of the DVL-700
(http://www.blamld.com/LaserDisc/DVL-700.htm) praises it as having the best
picture he'd ever seen a LD player produce. And keep in mind that the CLD-D704
and 79 were already avaliable when the 700 was released, chances are he'd
already seen one in action.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
September 17, 2004 7:22:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

----- Original Message -----
From: "Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com>
Newsgroups: alt.video.laserdisc
Sent: Wednesday, September 15, 2004 2:32 PM
Subject: Re: Pioneer DVL-919 negatives?


>I don't have any direct expericence with the combo units. But according to
> AudoRevolution.com and several older NG posts I found via Google, the
> DVL-90's
> LD section was taken directly from the CLD-79, a very highly-regarded
> player.
> However, some people here contest that it was really the CLD-D606 that
> gave
> it's LD section to the DVL-90, and it has known compatibility problems
> with
> some DVDs.

Curiously, my 919 has always played those occasional DVD's, DVD-R's and
VCD's that my Sony and Denon DVD players have issues with.
Anonymous
September 17, 2004 11:32:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Miles Wood" <diabolik@netvigator.com> wrote in message
news:cie3be$n6h3@imsp212.netvigator.com...

> Curiously, my 919 has always played those occasional DVD's, DVD-R's and
> VCD's that my Sony and Denon DVD players have issues with.

I second that, in fact my DVL-919 is possibly one of the most reliable,
compatible and quiet DVD players around.

--
Italo
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 2:37:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I've also read all of the various articles that abound about the Pioneer
combi LD-DVD players. I've actually owned two, the DVL-700 and Elite
DVL-91. My friend happens to own the Elite DVL-90.
I can say, without a shadow of a doubt, that other posters, such as
the knowledgable Kurtis Bahr, are very correct in their assertions that
the LD section of these combi units, is not of the highest caliber.
Personally, I find the LD quality to be very good. It's only when you
start "splitting hairs" that one must say that the Elite 79, D703/D704,
and Elite 99 have a better picture. Why? Because the picture is slightly
sharper on these units.
Steve, you can read all the articles you want to your hearts
content... BUT until you've had a multitude of players in your actual
possession, that you can actually perform comparison tests with, then,
and until then, you should rely on the empirical evidence of more
knowledgable persons.
I've owned and tested a multitude of high end players, including
several Pioneer CLD Elite 97,'s, Elite 99's. I've also had esoteric
players such as the Runco LJR II, and the MSB Silver.
My current "jewel" is the $5,000 US list priced Faroudja LD1000. I
have had it for several months.
So, Steve, until you've had your hands on some high-end units, such as
I have, then you should really look at those articles you read with a
jaundiced eye :) 
Kevin
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 11:12:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>Steve, you can read all the articles you want to your hearts
>content... BUT until you've had a multitude of players in your actual
>possession, that you can actually perform comparison tests with...

The reviews I talked about were posted by Audio Revolution and by via the BLAM
LD site. It seems to me that the people that wrote these reviews had quite a
vested interest in the LD technology. What you're essentially saying here (and
it's a tactic I've seen tried before) is that somehow the experiences of the
members of this board are somehow more valid than the experiences of anyone
*not* on this board. So, therefore, Audio Revolution and BLAM LD, not to
mention dozens of posts from years-past, must be innaccurate or worng. If you
say that in your experience the DVL-90 is "soft" then I'll take that at face
value. But I will not allow you to undermine the valid opinions/comments of
others who disagree with you. Moreover, I've been told that the DVL-91 and
DVL-919 had less competant LD sections because by the point at which they were
manufactured, DVD had become Pioneer's main concern and the LD playback quality
of those units was cosidered secondary. So I don't consider the LD performance
of the 91 and 919 to be indicitive of the quality from the earlier DVL-90. I've
also seen several posts indicating that while the DVL-90 sourced it's LD
section from the CLD-D704/79, that the DVL-700 may have sourced it's LD section
from the CLD-D606 in order to keep costs down and to help justify the higher
price tag on the DVL-90.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 11:13:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Not everything you read is 100% accurate. I believe the Blam review of
the DVL-700 mentions that the player has an adaptive 3D comb filter. It
does not. This was disputed and there are many posts in the archives
that dispute this.
I believe Kurtis has worked on Elite 90's and he can attest that they
are NOT based on the D704 line.
You are an interesting fellow. You read and read and read....and take
everything you read as "gospel."
Why not do what I did? I actually bought a multitude of players, out
of the sheer interest in how they would perform!
I compared, and cross-referenced many of these players and have a good
working knowledge of how they compare to each other. How? Not by just
reading articles, but by actually getting my hands on them.
Why not purchase some of these players, test them, and then give
opinions?
Years ago, a fellow from Norway named Ivor used to do just this same
thing and gave many interesting posts in this ng.
Just reading articles, that all interested LD enthusiasts have
already read, then regurgitating the facts here in the ng. doesn't make
you a knowledgable authority.
Why not buy an old CLD 1010 and completely remod the audio like you
suggested in some earlier posts? That would be very interesting and I'd
like to hear the results.
Kevin
Anonymous
September 18, 2004 1:32:10 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>Not everything you read is 100% accurate.

I'm aware of that, which is why I said I'd take claims of the DVL-91 being
"soft" at face value, I have no way of verifying this for myself. What bothers
me is the things posted to this NG are often treated as gospel. I look to you
fellows with my LD questions because you should and do know more than me. But
I've seen no evidence that what I dug up via Audio Revolution, BLAM LD and even
old posts to THIS group isn't true. It's just a lot of arguing.

>I believe Kurtis has worked on Elite 90's and he can attest that they
>are NOT based on the D704 line.

I'm curious, how can you identify which player the LD section of the combo
units was sourced from?

>You are an interesting fellow. You read and read and read....and take
>everything you read as "gospel."

Well if I can't do it with reviews then I certainly shouldn't be able to do it
with the stuff posted to this board.

> Why not do what I did? I actually bought a multitude of players, out
>of the sheer interest in how they would perform!

I wish I had the cash to do it! I'm a poor little working boy, trying to enjoy
what little income I've got while I go to school. If anyone wants to donate to
me a player, I'd be happy to do so.

>Why not buy an old CLD 1010 and completely remod the audio like you
>suggested in some earlier posts? That would be very interesting and I'd
>like to hear the results.

I'd really like to do it, and am still considering it. But I'm a bit strapped
for cash right now and am trying to save up for a trip to Japan this Christmas
time. Plus, I'm not really very handy at making electronic modifications and I
can't find anyone who would make the mods for me. If I could find someone
interested in buying the rare video game equipment and comic books I'm selling
off, I'd have some more free cash for LD experimentation.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
September 19, 2004 2:14:58 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I hate to jump in on these threads but here's my 2 cents worth.

I've worked on DVL-700's, 909's and 919's. I have not worked on the DVL
Elite Machines but have had much conversation with those who own them.
First off, the DVL-700 cannot be a CLD-79/CLD-D704 LD section just from the
layout on the jacks on the back. The DVL-700/909/919 Use a single board for
all their mechanical/video processing, the 79/704 have a totally separate
board they process the video on and the main board is for mechanical
control. The DVL series use one board for mechanical and video and a second
for audio. The 79/704 use one for mechanical control, another for Video
processing and a third for Audio. Personally I prefer the 909 over the 700
for the DVL units. If you get a 909 with the correct series code installed
you can swap two resistor and turn it into a DVL-91.

I sold my modified DVL-909 as I could never get used to the softer picture
it had when compared to the CLD-D703 it replaced on a quality 25 inch TV. I
had a DVL-700 once, repaired it, tweaked it and sold it as the picture was
too soft for me. My old late 1980's Philips CDV-488 had a sharper picture
and lower noise.

Now, I have also received 703/704/79/97/99 that had an average picture and
the problem was the alignment. Once you tweak them they shine as they
should. A person could have had an out of adjustment unit before looking at
the DVL unit.

As for magazines, the last really good Video magazine I'd recommend was the
original "The Perfect Vision", but it went under and was bought out and the
new "The Perfect Vision" is not the same.

Now each person has different tastes, some have the DVD/LD units due to
space. If you are picky about picture sharpness and control then the DVL
units are not the best. If you do not demand the high level performance
then the DVL units will work. And yes, the DVL units follow the CLD-D60X
family in picture quality.

Kurtis

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040918053210.29452.00000328@mb-m01.aol.com...
> >Not everything you read is 100% accurate.
>
> I'm aware of that, which is why I said I'd take claims of the DVL-91 being
> "soft" at face value, I have no way of verifying this for myself. What
bothers
> me is the things posted to this NG are often treated as gospel. I look to
you
> fellows with my LD questions because you should and do know more than me.
But
> I've seen no evidence that what I dug up via Audio Revolution, BLAM LD and
even
> old posts to THIS group isn't true. It's just a lot of arguing.
>
> >I believe Kurtis has worked on Elite 90's and he can attest that they
> >are NOT based on the D704 line.
>
> I'm curious, how can you identify which player the LD section of the combo
> units was sourced from?
>
> >You are an interesting fellow. You read and read and read....and take
> >everything you read as "gospel."
>
> Well if I can't do it with reviews then I certainly shouldn't be able to
do it
> with the stuff posted to this board.
>
> > Why not do what I did? I actually bought a multitude of players, out
> >of the sheer interest in how they would perform!
>
> I wish I had the cash to do it! I'm a poor little working boy, trying to
enjoy
> what little income I've got while I go to school. If anyone wants to
donate to
> me a player, I'd be happy to do so.
>
> >Why not buy an old CLD 1010 and completely remod the audio like you
> >suggested in some earlier posts? That would be very interesting and I'd
> >like to hear the results.
>
> I'd really like to do it, and am still considering it. But I'm a bit
strapped
> for cash right now and am trying to save up for a trip to Japan this
Christmas
> time. Plus, I'm not really very handy at making electronic modifications
and I
> can't find anyone who would make the mods for me. If I could find someone
> interested in buying the rare video game equipment and comic books I'm
selling
> off, I'd have some more free cash for LD experimentation.
> Steve Grauman
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 4:32:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

A correction to my note below. The DVL 909/919 have the Mechanical and
Audio processing on the main board, the video is processed on a separate
board but it is different than the 704/79 and does not even have shielding
over it like the 704/79 have.

Kurtis


"Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:FZmdnRXvyfE8dtHcRVn-vw@comcast.com...
> I hate to jump in on these threads but here's my 2 cents worth.
>
> I've worked on DVL-700's, 909's and 919's. I have not worked on the DVL
> Elite Machines but have had much conversation with those who own them.
> First off, the DVL-700 cannot be a CLD-79/CLD-D704 LD section just from
the
> layout on the jacks on the back. The DVL-700/909/919 Use a single board
for
> all their mechanical/video processing, the 79/704 have a totally separate
> board they process the video on and the main board is for mechanical
> control. The DVL series use one board for mechanical and video and a
second
> for audio. The 79/704 use one for mechanical control, another for Video
> processing and a third for Audio. Personally I prefer the 909 over the
700
> for the DVL units. If you get a 909 with the correct series code
installed
> you can swap two resistor and turn it into a DVL-91.
>
> I sold my modified DVL-909 as I could never get used to the softer picture
> it had when compared to the CLD-D703 it replaced on a quality 25 inch TV.
I
> had a DVL-700 once, repaired it, tweaked it and sold it as the picture was
> too soft for me. My old late 1980's Philips CDV-488 had a sharper picture
> and lower noise.
>
> Now, I have also received 703/704/79/97/99 that had an average picture and
> the problem was the alignment. Once you tweak them they shine as they
> should. A person could have had an out of adjustment unit before looking
at
> the DVL unit.
>
> As for magazines, the last really good Video magazine I'd recommend was
the
> original "The Perfect Vision", but it went under and was bought out and
the
> new "The Perfect Vision" is not the same.
>
> Now each person has different tastes, some have the DVD/LD units due to
> space. If you are picky about picture sharpness and control then the DVL
> units are not the best. If you do not demand the high level performance
> then the DVL units will work. And yes, the DVL units follow the CLD-D60X
> family in picture quality.
>
> Kurtis
>
> "Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040918053210.29452.00000328@mb-m01.aol.com...
> > >Not everything you read is 100% accurate.
> >
> > I'm aware of that, which is why I said I'd take claims of the DVL-91
being
> > "soft" at face value, I have no way of verifying this for myself. What
> bothers
> > me is the things posted to this NG are often treated as gospel. I look
to
> you
> > fellows with my LD questions because you should and do know more than
me.
> But
> > I've seen no evidence that what I dug up via Audio Revolution, BLAM LD
and
> even
> > old posts to THIS group isn't true. It's just a lot of arguing.
> >
> > >I believe Kurtis has worked on Elite 90's and he can attest that they
> > >are NOT based on the D704 line.
> >
> > I'm curious, how can you identify which player the LD section of the
combo
> > units was sourced from?
> >
> > >You are an interesting fellow. You read and read and read....and take
> > >everything you read as "gospel."
> >
> > Well if I can't do it with reviews then I certainly shouldn't be able to
> do it
> > with the stuff posted to this board.
> >
> > > Why not do what I did? I actually bought a multitude of players, out
> > >of the sheer interest in how they would perform!
> >
> > I wish I had the cash to do it! I'm a poor little working boy, trying to
> enjoy
> > what little income I've got while I go to school. If anyone wants to
> donate to
> > me a player, I'd be happy to do so.
> >
> > >Why not buy an old CLD 1010 and completely remod the audio like you
> > >suggested in some earlier posts? That would be very interesting and I'd
> > >like to hear the results.
> >
> > I'd really like to do it, and am still considering it. But I'm a bit
> strapped
> > for cash right now and am trying to save up for a trip to Japan this
> Christmas
> > time. Plus, I'm not really very handy at making electronic modifications
> and I
> > can't find anyone who would make the mods for me. If I could find
someone
> > interested in buying the rare video game equipment and comic books I'm
> selling
> > off, I'd have some more free cash for LD experimentation.
> > Steve Grauman
>
>
Anonymous
September 20, 2004 8:50:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>A correction to my note below. The DVL 909/919 have the Mechanical and
>Audio processing on the main board, the video is processed on a separate
>board but it is different than the 704/79 and does not even have shielding
>over it like the 704/79 have.

The problem here is that I am ONLY referencing the DVL-90. So newer and
non-Elite units are sort of off-topic. Beyond that, I wonder if it's possible
that certain parts were shared, but others were not? I'm just wondering why
Audio Revolution would think the DVL-90 shared it's LD section with the
CLD-D704 and CLD-79.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 12:37:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Isn't it possible that the writer of that particular article about the
DVL-90 simply assumed it was based on the higher end Pioneer players?
These players were pretty expensive when they were originally sold which
might lead to an inaccurate assumption.
My friend has that player and it is NOT as good as his Elite 97.
I'm no hardware expert that's true. But, empirical hands on experience,
with the actual players in question, from a person who knows what to
look for, counts for more than unschooled speculation.
Steve, I think you have very little respect for the opinions of the
more knowledgable collectors and enthusiasts out here in the ng.
You remind me of a friend I once had. He read an article about life in
Russia in a magazine. We happened to bump into an old school teacher of
mine, who just arrived home from actually being in Russia for a period
of time. My friend basically refuted what he had to say about the
lifestyle of Russians, SIMPLY BASED ON AN ARTICLE that he had recently
read.
Quite insulting to have a "book snob" refute someone with actual hands
of experience....
Kevin
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 5:34:15 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Many of the Pioneer players share the same basic parts, the support parts
around them differ. The CLD-D604 also shares many common parts with the
CLD-D704, that doesn't make the 604 as good as the 704. There are also
differences that make the 604 have a different picture than the 704. In the
same way the DVL-700 also shares many common parts with the 604 and the 704.
The big difference is seen when making a side by side comparison. the 704
is better than the DVL-700 just like the 704 is better than the 604. The
DVL-700 does have better shielding over the video processing board than the
909/919 so the DVL-700 or Elite DVL-90 have the potential to have the better
picture of the DVL units. I've never given the time to see if the 700/90 or
909/919/91 are better because the 703 definite had a sharper picture which I
preferred.

As I've said before I read magazine articles as just a persons opinion,
everyone has different tastes. I don't agree with everyone as my tastes can
be different than another. I'm just stating that the 700/90 is not a
703/704/79 when it comes to picture sharpness, it is more like the 604.

Kurtis


"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040920005044.19211.00001244@mb-m03.aol.com...
> >A correction to my note below. The DVL 909/919 have the Mechanical and
> >Audio processing on the main board, the video is processed on a separate
> >board but it is different than the 704/79 and does not even have
shielding
> >over it like the 704/79 have.
>
> The problem here is that I am ONLY referencing the DVL-90. So newer and
> non-Elite units are sort of off-topic. Beyond that, I wonder if it's
possible
> that certain parts were shared, but others were not? I'm just wondering
why
> Audio Revolution would think the DVL-90 shared it's LD section with the
> CLD-D704 and CLD-79.
> Steve Grauman
Anonymous
September 21, 2004 6:48:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>Isn't it possible that the writer of that particular article about the
>DVL-90 simply assumed it was based on the higher end Pioneer players?

Yes, but isn't it just as likely that members of this board could be making the
assumption that parts *aren't* shared, without actual evidence?

> My friend has that player and it is NOT as good as his Elite 97.

The 97 is said to have very low noise, coupled with a soft picture. In what way
is the DVL-90 (not the 91, 909, 700, or 919, we aren't talking about them) not
as good as the 97? I want specifics. I depend on you guys for them because I
don't have the cash to buy all these units.

> Steve, I think you have very little respect for the opinions of the
>more knowledgable collectors and enthusiasts out here in the ng.

I have nothing but respect for the real-world data and information that can be
presented to me by more experienced people. What I don't have any respect for
is un-informed argument and the rejection of review material while lacking
solid factual information to the contrary.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
September 28, 2004 1:23:23 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sat, 18 Sep 2004 22:14:58 -0400, "Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net>
, wrote:

>I hate to jump in on these threads but here's my 2 cents worth.
>
>I've worked on DVL-700's, 909's and 919's. I have not worked on the DVL
>Elite Machines but have had much conversation with those who own them.
>First off, the DVL-700 cannot be a CLD-79/CLD-D704 LD section just from the
>layout on the jacks on the back. The DVL-700/909/919 Use a single board for
>all their mechanical/video processing, the 79/704 have a totally separate
>board they process the video on and the main board is for mechanical
>control. The DVL series use one board for mechanical and video and a second
>for audio. The 79/704 use one for mechanical control, another for Video
>processing and a third for Audio. Personally I prefer the 909 over the 700
>for the DVL units. If you get a 909 with the correct series code installed
>you can swap two resistor and turn it into a DVL-91.
>
>I sold my modified DVL-909 as I could never get used to the softer picture
>it had when compared to the CLD-D703 it replaced on a quality 25 inch TV. I
>had a DVL-700 once, repaired it, tweaked it and sold it as the picture was
>too soft for me. My old late 1980's Philips CDV-488 had a sharper picture
>and lower noise.
>
>Now, I have also received 703/704/79/97/99 that had an average picture and
>the problem was the alignment. Once you tweak them they shine as they
>should. A person could have had an out of adjustment unit before looking at
>the DVL unit.
>
>As for magazines, the last really good Video magazine I'd recommend was the
>original "The Perfect Vision", but it went under and was bought out and the
>new "The Perfect Vision" is not the same.
>
>Now each person has different tastes, some have the DVD/LD units due to
>space. If you are picky about picture sharpness and control then the DVL
>units are not the best. If you do not demand the high level performance
>then the DVL units will work. And yes, the DVL units follow the CLD-D60X
>family in picture quality.
>
>Kurtis

Kurtis, this is the kind of post that makes this group worthwhile.
It's really hard to find this kind of detail anywhere else. : )
!