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HLD-X9 under mods!

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Anonymous
October 22, 2004 12:41:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Hi group!

Just like to tell you that a friend is now in the middle of making
mods on his HLD-X9. I cannot tell you too much before it all ready and
tried out but I can say that he have made some rather big things that
SHOULD give a big difference.

When he's done we will try it out and see what the + and - are with
the mods. One of the mods for we European people is that we can modify
the X9 to 230 volt. But no mods for new comb filter with DVI/SDI
output yet :( 

/Mattias

More about : hld mods

Anonymous
October 22, 2004 9:30:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

One of the big complaints is that Pioneer only added the flexible shielding
over the digital section of the D/A board. This already has separate power
supplies and I tried adding better (known good fast settling) diodes to make
up and replace the bridge diode packages and it didn't help. I'll be
curious if you find something that lowers the background noise and smoothes
out the backgrounds with DVNR OFF. Since the couple things I tried didn't
work I decided to quit playing.

Kurtis

"Mattias Karlsson" <nin@beta.telenordia.se> wrote in message
news:225c767a.0410220741.d19ae75@posting.google.com...
> Hi group!
>
> Just like to tell you that a friend is now in the middle of making
> mods on his HLD-X9. I cannot tell you too much before it all ready and
> tried out but I can say that he have made some rather big things that
> SHOULD give a big difference.
>
> When he's done we will try it out and see what the + and - are with
> the mods. One of the mods for we European people is that we can modify
> the X9 to 230 volt. But no mods for new comb filter with DVI/SDI
> output yet :( 
>
> /Mattias
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 5:39:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>But no mods for new comb filter with DVI/SDI
>output yet :( 

Based on what I read in the comb-filter thread, it seems as though the HLD-X9's
comb filter is as good as it gets and that many high-end projection televisions
are still using the X9's filter. That said, I'm not sure I see the advantage in
adding DVI to a laserdisc player. Having a direct-digital output for analog
source material seems pointless, and IMO, would probably only serve to decrease
picture quality by adding an unnecesary A/D conversion which will only need to
be reversed (via D/A conversion) in tube and CRT-Lens projection sets which are
not "true digital" display devices like DLP, LCD and Plasma sets and projectors
are.
Steve Grauman
Related resources
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 6:47:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041022213946.07524.00002562@mb-m11.aol.com...
> Based on what I read in the comb-filter thread, it seems as though the
> HLD-X9's
> comb filter is as good as it gets and that many high-end projection
> televisions
> are still using the X9's filter. That said, I'm not sure I see the
> advantage in
> adding DVI to a laserdisc player. Having a direct-digital output for
> analog
> source material seems pointless, and IMO, would probably only serve to
> decrease
> picture quality by adding an unnecesary A/D conversion which will only
> need to
> be reversed (via D/A conversion) in tube and CRT-Lens projection sets
> which are
> not "true digital" display devices like DLP, LCD and Plasma sets and
> projectors
> are.

The comb filter already does an A/D conversion step as it digitizes the
video signal in order to process it, then it does a D/A to output the
signal though the S-video connection. The digitizing's already being
done. You're not going to avoid it. If it were hypothetically possible
to add an SDI or DVI connection to the comb filter directly, this would
eliminate the D/A step in the LD player and the A/D in the display.

This is all theoretical, of course.
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 7:04:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>If it were hypothetically possible
>to add an SDI or DVI connection to the comb filter directly, this would
>eliminate the D/A step in the LD player and the A/D in the display.
>

When we're talking about a high-quality filter like what's in the X9, is the
A/D conversion going to be better at the player than what would be performed at
the display device if the player were fed via composite rather than via
S-Video? I'm thinking that with high end projection equipment maybe the
composite outputs are best used, even with a player such as the X9, because at
least theoretically, part of what you paid for is the equipment's capacity to
make a quality conversion from analog sources such as VHS and Laserdisc into
digital. I also wonder - do processors such as Faroudja's DVP-1010 and DVP-1080
or any of Runco's Vivix processors contain internal comb filters, or are they
just scalers? Would there be an advantage to feeding the player's composite
outputs to one of these units rather than using the s-video?
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 7:39:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

oneactor1@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote in message news:<20041022213946.07524.00002562@mb-m11.aol.com>...
> >But no mods for new comb filter with DVI/SDI
> >output yet :( 
>
> Based on what I read in the comb-filter thread, it seems as though the HLD-X9's
> comb filter is as good as it gets and that many high-end projection televisions
> are still using the X9's filter. That said, I'm not sure I see the advantage in
> adding DVI to a laserdisc player. Having a direct-digital output for analog
> source material seems pointless, and IMO, would probably only serve to decrease
> picture quality by adding an unnecesary A/D conversion which will only need to
> be reversed (via D/A conversion) in tube and CRT-Lens projection sets which are
> not "true digital" display devices like DLP, LCD and Plasma sets and projectors
> are.
> Steve Grauman

Hi Steve!

Like Josh said, you will lose at least one D/A and in most cases A/D.
For example, I have the Crystalio video processor and that have DVI
and SDI input and all conversion degrade the picture little. I have
been in contact with Techwell and they have a comb filter (3D motion
adaptive) that you can send out the signal from it with SDI or DVI. I
think the problem is to make it work in the X9.

I cannot tell more what he have done but there is rather much and we
will see, in a technical view it SHOULD gain the picture quality and I
don't think it is too hard to do it.

I let you know when we try it out more

/Mattias
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 3:10:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Hi,



I think that you don't understand the exact working yet. The analog video
signal comes too an AD converter. Than is past digital trough a comb filter
en then trough a DA converter. So you can adapt the digital signal before
the comb filter and AFTER the comb filter. Then you make advantage of the
good comb filter and you avoid a DA-AD conversion from the laserdisc player
too a Plasma, digital projector, scaler or other digital source.



Greeting!



Peter





"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> schreef in bericht
news:20041022230443.19211.00003054@mb-m03.aol.com...
> >If it were hypothetically possible
> >to add an SDI or DVI connection to the comb filter directly, this would
> >eliminate the D/A step in the LD player and the A/D in the display.
> >
>
> When we're talking about a high-quality filter like what's in the X9, is
the
> A/D conversion going to be better at the player than what would be
performed at
> the display device if the player were fed via composite rather than via
> S-Video? I'm thinking that with high end projection equipment maybe the
> composite outputs are best used, even with a player such as the X9,
because at
> least theoretically, part of what you paid for is the equipment's capacity
to
> make a quality conversion from analog sources such as VHS and Laserdisc
into
> digital. I also wonder - do processors such as Faroudja's DVP-1010 and
DVP-1080
> or any of Runco's Vivix processors contain internal comb filters, or are
they
> just scalers? Would there be an advantage to feeding the player's
composite
> outputs to one of these units rather than using the s-video?
> Steve Grauman
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 5:43:13 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

It will be interesting. You take the 8-bit digitized composite signal and
send it out with clocking. Then perform all the TBC, line-dropout,
digitally separate the Y/C with the best comb filter you can get. You may
have to do digital signal level adjustments as at the point the X9 converts
the analog to 8-bit the composite level is 1.7 Vp-p also the 1.0 Vp-p NTSC
Standard. Don't know if you'll be able to parallel the data out or have to
add circuitry to stream it.

I wonder if the best route is to purchase a Faroudja DVP-1010 and use that,
it outputs DVI and the Faroudja products I've seen outperform the others.

Kurtis

"Mattias Karlsson" <nin@beta.telenordia.se> wrote in message
news:225c767a.0410230239.12492abd@posting.google.com...
> oneactor1@aol.com (Steve Grauman) wrote in message
> news:<20041022213946.07524.00002562@mb-m11.aol.com>...
>> >But no mods for new comb filter with DVI/SDI
>> >output yet :( 
>>
>> Based on what I read in the comb-filter thread, it seems as though the
>> HLD-X9's
>> comb filter is as good as it gets and that many high-end projection
>> televisions
>> are still using the X9's filter. That said, I'm not sure I see the
>> advantage in
>> adding DVI to a laserdisc player. Having a direct-digital output for
>> analog
>> source material seems pointless, and IMO, would probably only serve to
>> decrease
>> picture quality by adding an unnecesary A/D conversion which will only
>> need to
>> be reversed (via D/A conversion) in tube and CRT-Lens projection sets
>> which are
>> not "true digital" display devices like DLP, LCD and Plasma sets and
>> projectors
>> are.
>> Steve Grauman
>
> Hi Steve!
>
> Like Josh said, you will lose at least one D/A and in most cases A/D.
> For example, I have the Crystalio video processor and that have DVI
> and SDI input and all conversion degrade the picture little. I have
> been in contact with Techwell and they have a comb filter (3D motion
> adaptive) that you can send out the signal from it with SDI or DVI. I
> think the problem is to make it work in the X9.
>
> I cannot tell more what he have done but there is rather much and we
> will see, in a technical view it SHOULD gain the picture quality and I
> don't think it is too hard to do it.
>
> I let you know when we try it out more
>
> /Mattias
Anonymous
October 23, 2004 8:18:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041022230443.19211.00003054@mb-m03.aol.com...
> When we're talking about a high-quality filter like what's in the X9,
> is the
> A/D conversion going to be better at the player than what would be
> performed at
> the display device if the player were fed via composite rather than
> via
> S-Video?

If you use the composite output, you bypass the comb filter in the LD
player and use the one in the display instead.
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 2:55:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>The analog video
>signal comes too an AD converte

Why would a Laserdisc player digitize the signal BEFORE the comb filter if the
composite outputs are being used? I don't understand why the player would
unneccesarily digitize an analog signal.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 2:55:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Steve Grauman wrote:
>>The analog video
>>signal comes too an AD converte
>
>
> Why would a Laserdisc player digitize the signal BEFORE the comb filter if the
> composite outputs are being used? I don't understand why the player would
> unneccesarily digitize an analog signal.

It is a DIGITAL comb filter.

Matthew (BTW, Kraig has owned a whole lot more LD player than you have)

--
Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
You can't win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 2:56:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>I let you know when we try it out more

Yea, I'm really interested. I've never thought about the possibility of adding
DVI/SDI capability to a Laserdisc player and I'm curious about the results.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 2:58:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>If you use the composite output, you bypass the comb filter in the LD
>player and use the one in the display instead.

I understand that. What I'm asking is, if you let your processor or display
device do the work, even though I understand that the comb filter as a whole in
the X9 is usually about as good as they get, is it possible that the analog to
digital conversion on it's own would be better elsewhere?
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 3:22:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>It is a DIGITAL comb filter.
>

Yea, I'm well aware. But the path to the comb filter, including the
digitazation should be bypassed completely when the composite outputs are being
used.

>(BTW, Kraig has owned a whole lot more LD player than you have)
>

Wow, thanks. That's helpful.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 4:17:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041023185841.22107.00005645@mb-m07.aol.com...
> >If you use the composite output, you bypass the comb filter in the LD
>>player and use the one in the display instead.
>
> I understand that. What I'm asking is, if you let your processor or
> display
> device do the work, even though I understand that the comb filter as a
> whole in
> the X9 is usually about as good as they get, is it possible that the
> analog to
> digital conversion on it's own would be better elsewhere?

Yes, that is possible. However, since the X9 is already known to have a
top-end comb filter, is it worth spending $5,000 or more on a Faroudja
external comb filter that *may* possibly be better or may actually
deliver the exact same results or even not as good?
Anonymous
October 24, 2004 7:08:50 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>Yes, that is possible. However, since the X9 is already known to have a
>top-end comb filter, is it worth spending $5,000 or more on a Faroudja
>external comb filter that *may* possibly be better or may actually
>deliver the exact same results or even not as good?

Point taken. And by the comment I take it that no one has verified if the
processor in a DVP-1010 or 1080 would be better than the of the X9. Although I
assume it's possible that someone may already have the $5,000 processor. It's
to bad nobody here has acess to the equipment to make a comparison.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 2:02:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

> (BTW, Kraig has owned a whole lot more LD players than you have)>

Dear Matthew

Steve is more interested in the theory of LD and is just hoping
to be thrown some table scraps from our more tolerant NG veterans and frequent
contributors.
Though you and I disagree on some off topic material, I consider
you to be this NG's authority on the technologies of A/V formats and would just
ask you a question rather than using Steve's posting methodology:
Is this right?
Steve Grauman

No? How about this?
Steve Grauman

No? Okay. This?
Steve Grauman

No? Oh, this?
Steve Grauman

No? Well, this?
Steve Grauman

No? Okay. I think I get it now.
Steve Grauman

No? Please don't be mad at me. I love everybody here.
Steve Grauman



Best wishes,

Kraig
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 6:45:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"KAMCGANN" <kamcgann@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041026180259.16600.00002370@mb-m16.aol.com...

Gosh you're an ass.....
Anonymous
October 27, 2004 11:27:51 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Biz wrote:

> "KAMCGANN" <kamcgann@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20041026180259.16600.00002370@mb-m16.aol.com...
>
> Gosh you're an ass.....
>

Really? I think he described Steve's methodology exactly.

Matthew (who doesn't consider himself an LD expert)

--
Thermodynamics and/or Golf for dummies: There is a game
You can't win
You can't break even
You can't get out of the game
Anonymous
October 28, 2004 12:16:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Interested here also. Definitely keep us posted, Mattias
..

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20041023185652.22107.00005643@mb-m07.aol.com...
> >I let you know when we try it out more
>
> Yea, I'm really interested. I've never thought about the possibility of
adding
> DVI/SDI capability to a Laserdisc player and I'm curious about the
results.
> Steve Grauman
Anonymous
October 29, 2004 6:04:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>Matthew (who doesn't consider himself an LD expert)>

Dear Matthew
Hello. I posted that I consider you to be this NG's authority on
the technologies of A/V formats. You have been almost the only one to bother
considering the cold hard facts regarding the design and performance of A/V
formats, including the obsolete LD format. Without your objective
interjections, some people might believe the magical performance claims made
about the LD format gushed by this NG's progress phobic and sentimentally
misguided.

Kraig
!