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Upgrading Build - Still On LGA775!

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January 14, 2013 2:40:26 AM

Hey all,

Here are my current specs;

550W Antec Ion2+
Q6600 OCed to 3.2Ghz
HD 6970 (downclocked because at default, PSU gives out).
8gb DDR3 Ripjaws X 1333Mhz (pushed a little (to 356Mhz) for the OC... should get 1600mhz if OCing higher).
2Tb Seagate Sata 3.
GA-P35C-DS3R

With the above build, I've been managing until now; playing CPU-intensive games like Shogun 2 with largest unit sizes brings it to a halt. Core 1 is consistently maxed in these sorts of games, as multicore optimisation isn't as great as it could be.

I'm not sure what socket to upgrade; I would like to only get a new PSU, new CPU, and new mobo, but I'd like to be able to upgrade down the road... what socket is going to last a while? I heard 1155 is dying.

Trying not to spend excessive $$, but I won't be a complete stooge.

Cheers,
- HateDread.

More about : upgrading build lga775

January 16, 2013 2:53:58 AM

Thanks for the PSU... I'll check it out.

Are you talking about IB-e on socket 2011? I heard that that will be insanely expensive and not all that much better than a good 1155.

Or do you mean Haswell? I've heard similar things to the above.

Ideas?
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a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 2:55:16 AM

Or do you mean Haswell? I've heard similar things to the above.
exactly, intel haswell cpu, radeon card, nvidia card are all coming in the middle of this year
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January 16, 2013 4:49:18 AM

Yeah but my point is that people have suggested that Haswell is NOT worth waiting for.

Basically, I'm looking for the next Q6600 - a good but NOT extreme processor that will last a fair while (with overclocking).

Any ideas for this, specifically?
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a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 6:36:30 AM

Currently a 3570k would be good.

Haswell is worth the wait though, its not gonna be a major breakthrough over IB but:

approx 10-20% performance increase
Lower power requirements
Numerous other minor technological updates
and most importantly it's a new architecture (LGA1150, the tick in intels calander), which means that the next processor (the tock, which is die shrinking) will use the same architecture so you can upgrade to that down the line.
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 7:27:43 AM

haswell is not worth waiting 6+ months for. the "major upgrade" is the igpu, thats it aside from intel working on getting a bit better performance under a less power envelope. the arch will be simular to sandy/ivy bridge.

its broadwell to get all excited about . . .

i find it a bit odd that you ask/infer that socket 1155 is dying when you sit on a 775 right now. upgrade and in two years when that platform is not performing up to snuff as your Q6600 is now - then jump on a socket 1150 haswell.


edit: i have made an opinion based on what an intel engineer stated about a haswell during an AMA on reddit and the reffered to Anadtech article. here are the links if i missed something:
IAmA CPU Architect and Designer at Intel, AMA.

Intel's Haswell Architecture Analyzed: Building a New PC and a New Intel


cheers
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a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 7:36:21 AM

I understand where you're coming from with that, my main reasoning was that he wants a socket that's upgradeable down the line which isnt doable with IB.

However it is not a bad idea as you say to just go IB now and move onto whatever chipset is out when he feels an upgrade is needed, which is why i also suggested the i5 3570k currently.

Edit: Why do you think Broadwell is the one to wait for? That will just be a shrinking of the die process of Haswell, slightly lower power consumption and a little better performance.
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 8:05:10 AM

mikerockett said:
I understand where you're coming from with that, my main reasoning was that he wants a socket that's upgradeable down the line which isnt doable with IB.

However it is not a bad idea as you say to just go IB now and move onto whatever chipset is out when he feels an upgrade is needed, which is why i also suggested the i5 3570k currently.

Edit: Why do you think Broadwell is the one to wait for? That will just be a shrinking of the die process of Haswell, slightly lower power consumption and a little better performance.

i edited my last post with some links i hope you find informative.

there is the mantra: there is always something better down the line - and that will keep anyone from upgrading - the best suggestion is to get the best tech available now.

last year the question was asked about waiting for ivy . . when it comes down to it, there was/is nothing about ivy that was worth waiting months for unless you were video editing/trancoding with an i7. i am not saying/stating/beliving that ivy bridge isn't/wasn't an improvement. it just didn't bring anything more to the table besides PCI 3.0 - which only is beneficial in a high end multi gpu set up.

the "officially" supported DDR3 1600 ram wasn't different than a sandy with a motherboard that supported XMP. the overclocking ended up being equal since ivy's got hot at a lower clock rate than a sandy; so you could overclock the sandy to compansate for the ~7% performance difference.

any of that did not seem to be worth waiting 6 weeks for let alone 6 months. IIRC that only people that wanted to wait were those that like the "new car smell".

what the engineeer on the AMA commented a few times about broadwell overclocking being "different" piqued my curiosity. and i think its prudent to give the socket one "generation" to mature for mobo manfufacturers. remember the cougar point (6 series chipset) flaw with SATA 6gbs?
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a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 8:24:07 AM

Anonymous said:
i edited my last post with some links i hope you find informative.

there is the mantra: there is always something better down the line - and that will keep anyone from upgrading - the best suggestion is to get the best tech available now.

last year the question was asked about waiting for ivy . . when it comes down to it, there was/is nothing about ivy that was worth waiting months for unless you were video editing/trancoding with an i7. i am not saying/stating/beliving that ivy bridge isn't/wasn't an improvement. it just didn't bring anything more to the table besides PCI 3.0 - which only is beneficial in a high end multi gpu set up.

the "officially" supported DDR3 1600 ram wasn't different than a sandy with a motherboard that supported XMP. the overclocking ended up being equal since ivy's got hot at a lower clock rate than a sandy; so you could overclock the sandy to compansate for the ~7% performance difference.

any of that did not seem to be worth waiting 6 weeks for let alone 6 months. IIRC that only people that wanted to wait were those that like the "new car smell".

what the engineeer on the AMA commented a few times about broadwell overclocking being "different" piqued my curiosity. and i think its prudent to give the socket one "generation" to mature for mobo manfufacturers. remember the cougar point (6 series chipset) flaw with SATA 6gbs?


Thanks for those links, ill take a look.

To be fair though IB was only the tick in the intel process which is generally just a shrinking of the process, so slightly better performance and less power. Haswell however is a new architecture which is generally a much better boost.

I'm still in agreement with you on buying the best tech available though, as i mentioned my only reasoning for suggesting he waits is because he wants a chipset he can upgrade down the line. IB mobo's wont support Haswell but Haswell mobo's will support Skylake when we reach it.
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January 16, 2013 8:55:59 AM

Anonymous said:
haswell is not worth waiting 6+ months for. the "major upgrade" is the igpu, thats it aside from intel working on getting a bit better performance under a less power envelope. the arch will be simular to sandy/ivy bridge.

its broadwell to get all excited about . . .

i find it a bit odd that you ask/infer that socket 1155 is dying when you sit on a 775 right now. upgrade and in two years when that platform is not performing up to snuff as your Q6600 is now - then jump on a socket 1150 haswell.


edit: i have made an opinion based on what an intel engineer stated about a haswell during an AMA on reddit and the reffered to Anadtech article. here are the links if i missed something:
IAmA CPU Architect and Designer at Intel, AMA.

Intel's Haswell Architecture Analyzed: Building a New PC and a New Intel


cheers

mikerockett said:
Currently a 3570k would be good.

Haswell is worth the wait though, its not gonna be a major breakthrough over IB but:

approx 10-20% performance increase
Lower power requirements
Numerous other minor technological updates
and most importantly it's a new architecture (LGA1150, the tick in intels calander), which means that the next processor (the tock, which is die shrinking) will use the same architecture so you can upgrade to that down the line.


Hey guys, thanks for the reply, and interesting discussion!

So I am now thinking of it like this; there are no more high-level CPUs coming out for 1155, correct? So I could get the 3570k and not feel as though I'm missing out, as the socket won't run off without me (just like the LGA 775 didn't explode away past the Q9xx series, making the Q6600 still viable)?

I will, for now, try to get my 1333mhz RAM up to 1600 to try and bump the Q6600 up to 3.4 or 3.6, while I consider my options. The thread for this is here; http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/282557-29-ocing-1333-...

What is the ideal price/performance on 1155, if we are suggesting that socket for now. I.e. is the i5 3570k a better choice than whatever the i7 equivalent is? I have heard the only difference is Hyper-Threading.

Thanks!
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Best solution

a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 9:00:02 AM

HateDread said:
Hey guys, thanks for the reply, and interesting discussion!

So I am now thinking of it like this; there are no more high-level CPUs coming out for 1155, correct? So I could get the 3570k and not feel as though I'm missing out, as the socket won't run off without me (just like the LGA 775 didn't explode away past the Q9xx series, making the Q6600 still viable)?

I will, for now, try to get my 1333mhz RAM up to 1600 to try and bump the Q6600 up to 3.4 or 3.6, while I consider my options. The thread for this is here;

What is the ideal price/performance on 1155, if we are suggesting that socket for now. I.e. is the i5 3570k a better choice than whatever the i7 equivalent is? I have heard the only difference is Hyper-Threading.

Thanks!


You are correct in your assumptions, for a purely gaming rig an i7 yields no benefit over an i5. The i5 3570k is highly regarded as the best gaming CPU currently available. It is however only worth getting if you plan to overclock with it. If you are not planning to over clock then the 3570 is next best altough it is recommended to step down further to the 3470 as it will yield similar results as the 3570 but for a cheaper price.
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January 16, 2013 9:24:15 AM

mikerockett said:
You are correct in your assumptions, for a purely gaming rig an i7 yields no benefit over an i5. The i5 3570k is highly regarded as the best gaming CPU currently available. It is however only worth getting if you plan to overclock with it. If you are not planning to over clock then the 3570 is next best altough it is recommended to step down further to the 3470 as it will yield similar results as the 3570 but for a cheaper price.


Yeah, I'm definitely planning to overclock; do the Ivy Bridge CPUs require special RAM? I was going to get a higher-rated G.Skill kit than the one I have; maybe above 2000mhz, but I don't quite get how the new sockets overclock, so maybe that's a waste? I want to push it as high as I can, i.e. with an Asrock Extreme4 mobo.

And what is this 'XMP', and do I need it?

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a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 9:26:34 AM

HateDread said:
Yeah, I'm definitely planning to overclock; do the Ivy Bridge CPUs require special RAM? I was going to get a higher-rated G.Skill kit than the one I have; maybe above 2000mhz, but I don't quite get how the new sockets overclock, so maybe that's a waste? I want to push it as high as I can, i.e. with an Asrock Extreme4 mobo.

And what is this 'XMP', and do I need it?


Not sure what you mean by 'special ram', they use DDR3 ram. Generally it's recommended not to get higher than 1600mhz ram, getting 1866 or 2000 is generally considered a waste of money as you will not see any noticeable speed gain over 1600.

I'm not hugely familiar with XMP but i don't see how it relates to this?

Edit: My bad you're talking about extreme memory profiling and not the extensible metadata platform i originally thought :lol: 

IMO no you dont need xmp, but if you really want to overclock to the max then it could be worth considering.
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a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 9:46:02 AM

HateDread said:
Ahh yes, just wanted to make sure :)  If that is the case; how on Earth do people get high OCs without +2000mhz RAM? My understanding is waaay off then.

Alright, so RAM like this; http://www.mwave.com.au/product/sku-aa65721-gskill_ripj... would be perfect / the best I can do, it seems.


OK to be perfectly honest im not an expert on over clocking. My last build was the first i'd over clocked on but it didn't require any changes to the RAM (not that i'm aware of anyway).

Only issue i have with the RAM you chose is the heat spreaders on top, if you're over clocking i assume you will be getting an aftermarket cooler, these can have issues with blocking your ram slots if you have ram with tall heat spreaders. I highly recommend getting low profile ram such as corsair vengeance low profile.
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 9:50:47 AM

HateDread said:
Ahh yes, just wanted to make sure :)  If that is the case; how on Earth do people get high OCs without +2000mhz RAM? My understanding is waaay off then.

Alright, so RAM like this; http://www.mwave.com.au/product/sku-aa65721-gskill_ripj... would be perfect / the best I can do, it seems.

with no longer using the front side bus for overclocking (its a "base clock" now or Bclk) the K versions simply use an increased multi.

you won't benefit from getting any faster than 1600 RAM for an sany/ivy set up. oh yeah the memory controler is now on the cpu, there is no north bridge.
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a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 9:56:00 AM

Anonymous said:
with no longer using the front side bus for overclocking (its a "base clock" now or Bclk) the K versions simply use an increased multi.

you won't benefit from getting any faster than 1600 RAM for an sany/ivy set up. oh yeah the memory controler is now on the cpu, there is no north bridge.


Thanks for clarifying that looniam, as i mentioned im no pro when it comes to over clocking. Shoulda remembered that it's just the multiplier that changes, remember that now :/ 
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January 16, 2013 10:01:08 AM

mikerockett said:
Thanks for clarifying that looniam, as i mentioned im no pro when it comes to over clocking. Shoulda remembered that it's just the multiplier that changes, remember that now :/ 

Anonymous said:
with no longer using the front side bus for overclocking (its a "base clock" now or Bclk) the K versions simply use an increased multi.

you won't benefit from getting any faster than 1600 RAM for an sany/ivy set up. oh yeah the memory controler is now on the cpu, there is no north bridge.


Oh wow, you learn something new every day! So the only measure of a RAM's quality these days is timings? I guess I should aim for the tightest 1600mhz kit. If I find one the same for a higher clock, would it hurt to get it? (in case Haswell or others use that again? I have no idea if that is a possibility).

(Good point about low-profile; I'll make sure it's not too much otherwise).

On a side note; does that mean the higher-frequency kits are dropping in popularity and will soon be produced less, too?
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 10:26:14 AM

HateDread said:
Oh wow, you learn something new every day! So the only measure of a RAM's quality these days is timings? I guess I should aim for the tightest 1600mhz kit. If I find one the same for a higher clock, would it hurt to get it? (in case Haswell or others use that again? I have no idea if that is a possibility).

(Good point about low-profile; I'll make sure it's not too much otherwise).

On a side note; does that mean the higher-frequency kits are dropping in popularity and will soon be produced less, too?

well yes and no on the timings. a set of 1600 CL9 is fine. you may get some CL7 but the cost will be much more for the benefit you'd get. some folks do like the 1866 RAM and i guess thats fine but i am trying to find the links to a few articles showing the difference is only in benchmarking, what little there is.

if you want really snappy performance then consider a decent SSD drive for your OS, apps and games. it won't increase your FPS while gaming but it will with your load times and windows boots in ~15 seconds. i had been apprehensive getting one myslef because they had been expensive and seemed "disposable" : you can write to them only so many times but read data endlessly. but with the major drop in prices and the increased "write endurance" they are a much better buy today.

it may not be in your budget now, but do some googling and research and keep it in the back of your mind.
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a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 11:05:14 AM

Anonymous said:
well yes and no on the timings. a set of 1600 CL9 is fine. you may get some CL7 but the cost will be much more for the benefit you'd get. some folks do like the 1866 RAM and i guess thats fine but i am trying to find the links to a few articles showing the difference is only in benchmarking, what little there is.

if you want really snappy performance then consider a decent SSD drive for your OS, apps and games. it won't increase your FPS while gaming but it will with your load times and windows boots in ~15 seconds. i had been apprehensive getting one myslef because they had been expensive and seemed "disposable" : you can write to them only so many times but read data endlessly. but with the major drop in prices and the increased "write endurance" they are a much better buy today.

it may not be in your budget now, but do some googling and research and keep it in the back of your mind.


This is an excellent point, one of the best upgrades i ever made was getting my SSD. It just makes everything feel so much snappier.

Don't have any links to hand but i can concur that the only difference you will see in faster ram speeds is that in benchmarking, no real world difference to note.

Also although CL7 would be better, just sticking to a simple CL9 1.5v will be fine for your needs.
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January 16, 2013 8:50:31 PM

Best answer selected by HateDread.
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January 16, 2013 8:51:36 PM

I wish I could select you both as best answer... thanks for all the help, guys!

Getting an i5 3570k on an ASrock Extreme4 with 8gb Ripjaws x DDR3.

- HateDread.
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Anonymous
a b B Homebuilt system
January 16, 2013 9:05:59 PM

HateDread said:
I wish I could select you both as best answer... thanks for all the help, guys!

Getting an i5 3570k on an ASrock Extreme4 with 8gb Ripjaws x DDR3.

- HateDread.

you're welcome . .a last note:

just get a third party heatsink for overclocking (i think you are aware of that though)
a coolermaster hyper 212+ or EVO or even a TX3 will be fine ($15- $30 cost)


good luck!
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January 16, 2013 9:09:24 PM

Yeah I've got the EVO already. Better clean it off with some alcohol!

Thanks :) 
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