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Micro Shutter in Games

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December 2, 2012 2:37:12 PM

My Specs

AMD Phenom X4 970BE 3.5Ghz
AMD HD 5770
Crosair Vengeance 2X4 8GB RAM
500 Watts PSU


I experience lagg/micro shutter when playing games. BF3 MP laggs but Single player runs totally fine.

Other games like HitmanAbsolution also shutters. Although FPS shows between 45-75


Please someone tell me what seems to be the Problem. This is driving me nuts.

More about : micro shutter games

December 2, 2012 2:40:13 PM

Also how do i post an image file here so that i can show you the BF3 render graph???
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a c 105 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
December 2, 2012 2:58:51 PM

turn resolution down and put all settings on low, what happens ?
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December 2, 2012 3:03:14 PM

Will do that and post.

P.S: I was able to play with no lagg once upon a time (same PC). Then all of a sudden micro shutter screwed it all.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 3:35:11 PM

The artifacts point to either a memory or overheating issue with the card, assuming you are using the most current drivers. Given that your framerate is dropping along with the artifacts popping up, heat is my first guess. I would start by checking your card temps during gameplay with GPU-Z.

Micro *stutter* is an issue that occurs with 2 cards setups in SLI/crossfire. It does not happen with a single card.

good luck!
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December 2, 2012 3:42:13 PM

Card temps are the same as they were when i could play with no shutter.

65-70 C when playing BF3
35-40 idle
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 3:44:50 PM

quilciri said:
Micro *stutter* is an issue that occurs with 2 cards setups in SLI/crossfire. It does not happen with a single card.

Actually, microstuttering is stuttering that happens within a second, and therefore does not show up when measuring FPS. Long time-to-render-one-or-more-frames (frametimes) are microstuttering and have many causes. http://techreport.com/review/21516/inside-the-second-a-...
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a c 105 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
December 2, 2012 3:52:10 PM

weak video cards.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 3:55:38 PM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering

"Single-GPU configurations do not suffer from this defect in most cases and can in some cases output a subjectively smoother video compared to a multi-GPU setup using the same video card model."

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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 3:58:48 PM

Acc. to recent research (and personal experience), turning off v-sync pretty much eliminates microstutter. You may as well try that, can't hurt anything.

I *highly* doubt your issue is microstutter, though :) 
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 4:32:36 PM

quilciri said:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_stuttering

"Single-GPU configurations do not suffer from this defect in most cases and can in some cases output a subjectively smoother video compared to a multi-GPU setup using the same video card model."

Here, I'll fix that... It does happen in single-card configs, depending on the CPU, GPU, and game used. For example - check out the microstuttering on th GTX 650Ti in this review: http://techreport.com/review/23690/review-nvidia-geforc...
And pretty much any configuration running Arkham City - that game is full of microstutter.

It's just most common on multi-card configs - especially using mid-lower-end cards.

I had some serious microstuttering while playing Crysis 2 DX11 with an Athlon II X2 + HD 6870. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mS6W6DWNPHM&feature=plcp
Turns out not being able to run more than 2 threads can cause major microstuttering in most DX11 games. Check out the BF3 and Crysis 2 benchmarks in this review: http://techreport.com/review/23662/amd-a10-5800k-and-a8...
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 4:36:09 PM

At what resolution are you running the games?
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 4:37:55 PM

jessterman21 said:
Here, I'll fix that... It does happen in single-card configs, depending on the CPU, GPU, and game used. It's just most common on multi-card configs - especially using mid-lower-end cards.


The wiki covers that, it just says it's very rare. If he's trying to run BF3 @ 1920x1080 on a 5770 with anything but minimal settings...I'd say that's the issue right there.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 4:44:12 PM

Did your framerate issue with BF3 and hitman just start recently, or has that always happened with those 2 games?
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 4:45:13 PM

quilciri said:
The wiki covers that, it just says it's very rare. If he's trying to run BF3 @ 1920x1080 on a 5770 with anything but minimal settings...I'd say that's the issue right there.

Well, that's the main issue for sure.

May be the CPU overheating and throttling too.
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December 2, 2012 4:49:51 PM

Thank you for the replies.

I run @ 1366X768 resolution.

Guys P.S: i used to play the game(BF3 multiplayer) perfectly ok. This started happening and other game titles also showed signs. I ran prime for 4 hrs torture test showed no signs of problem. I can upgrade to AMD 7850. But i don't wanna spend now until i know the root cause. I may end up having the same lag issue.

Also this lag thing starts happening after 5mins of gameplay.

Folks please help me with this.
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December 2, 2012 4:51:19 PM

Thank you for the replies.

I run @ 1366X768 resolution.

Guys P.S: i used to play the game(BF3 multiplayer) perfectly ok. This started happening and other game titles also showed signs. I ran prime for 4 hrs torture test showed no signs of problem. I can upgrade to AMD 7850. But i don't wanna spend now until i know the root cause. I may end up having the same lag issue.

Also this lag thing starts happening after 5mins of gameplay.

Folks please help me with this.
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December 2, 2012 4:54:13 PM

Additional info:

CPU 100% load temp is 69 C
Idle is 41 C

Stock cooler+ cooler master 90CFM cabinet fan.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 5:00:13 PM

sunnyrokxx said:
Additional info:

CPU 100% load temp is 69 C
Idle is 41 C

Stock cooler+ cooler master 90CFM cabinet fan.


Ahh, ok that's a *distinct* possibilty. The Safe max temp range for a 970BE is 60-65c, and the stock AMD coolers barely cut the mustard. I'd grab an aftermarket cooler for $20-25 and some new thermal paste. Most folks around here would suggest the coolermaster hyper 212.
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December 2, 2012 5:04:47 PM

quilciri said:
Did your framerate issue with BF3 and hitman just start recently, or has that always happened with those 2 games?


Well it never happened before, BF3 MP started lagging and as new titles released, i could experience the lag in all the games.

Darksiders 2
Ghost Recon Future Soilder
MOHWF- Multiplayer only
NFSMW 2012
Hitman Absolution


The lag appears only after 5mins start of gameplay and keeps shuttering now n then. What i am trying to say is the gameplay is not smooth. After 5mins in the game, Agent 47 seems to be limping his way through out the gameplay.
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December 2, 2012 5:10:05 PM

quilciri said:
Ahh, ok that's a *distinct* possibilty. The Safe max temp range for a 970BE is 60-65c, and the stock AMD coolers barely cut the mustard. I'd grab an aftermarket cooler for $20-25 and some new thermal paste. Most folks around here would suggest the coolermaster hyper 212.



Hmmmm, i would buy your advice, but while gaming CPU is never on 100% load. The temp 69 C was when i ran Prime.

Also why only in Multiplayer?

BF3 & MOHWF SP runs smooth!!
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 5:15:05 PM

Prime stresses the CPU and BF3 multiplayer is more CPU intensive than single player.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 5:17:07 PM

sunnyrokxx said:
Hmmmm, i would buy your advice, but while gaming CPU is never on 100% load. The temp 69 C was when i ran Prime.

Also why only in Multiplayer?

BF3 & MOHWF SP runs smooth!!



Multiplayer is very CPU intensive whereas single player is more GPU dependant.
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December 2, 2012 5:21:04 PM

BF3 multiplayer is notorious for being very CPU intensive. It's one of the few instances in gaming where having a more powerful CPU is beneficial. The singleplayer on the other hand is not as CPU intensive. As quilciri said the SAFE operating temp is 65 degrees, your already above that so I'd really suggest an aftermarket cooler.
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December 2, 2012 5:21:55 PM

quilciri said:
Prime stresses the CPU and BF3 multiplayer is more CPU intensive than single player.



Yes I do agree that, so does that also explain the lag in other games???

Just wanna be sure.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 5:23:10 PM

sunnyrokxx said:
Yes I do agree that, so does that also explain the lag in other games???

Just wanna be sure.



It could be that because there is more stress on the cpu that causes it to overheat (ie After 5 mins) and that causes the stuttering.
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December 2, 2012 5:30:51 PM

bigbasedrum said:
BF3 multiplayer is notorious for being very CPU intensive. It's one of the few instances in gaming where having a more powerful CPU is beneficial. The singleplayer on the other hand is not as CPU intensive. As quilciri said the SAFE operating temp is 65 degrees, your already above that so I'd really suggest an aftermarket cooler.



I agree about the BF3 traits...

ok the CPU & stock cooler is 7 months old, i had checked the temps back then when it was new, it was same as now only difference, there was no lag. So is it that with time, the issue just came up??
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December 2, 2012 5:48:00 PM

To get rid of hitman microstutter disbable exclusive fullscreen.
To get rid of bf3 microstutter cap ur framerate to ur vsync.
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December 2, 2012 6:06:59 PM

cooldudesubho said:
To get rid of hitman microstutter disbable exclusive fullscreen.
To get rid of bf3 microstutter cap ur framerate to ur vsync.



Alright will do that. If you tell me.

How can i cap my framerate to my Vsync??
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December 2, 2012 6:26:04 PM

Just checked... disabling exclusive fullscreen. The lag is back after 5mins of gameplay.
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December 2, 2012 6:28:49 PM

ok in case i buy a cooler.

Cooler master Hyper 212 Evo or Hyper 412 Slim?
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 6:40:57 PM

I've a sneaking suspicion cooldude didn't read the entire thread before posting :) 

Go with the evo unless case space forces you to go with a slim. While we're on the topic, make sure to measure the space in your case before buyign a cooler, especially tower coolers like the 212 to make sure they'll fit.

good luck!
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 7:00:54 PM

I don't think it's CPU temps. The maximum operating temperature of my i5 2500k is 72.6 but it goes up to 80-90 and there are no problems.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 7:11:47 PM

samuelspark said:
I don't think it's CPU temps. The maximum operating temperature of my i5 2500k is 72.6 but it goes up to 80-90 and there are no problems.


AMD Phenom's have a different silicon formulation that reduces leakage at lower temps for a trade off of less high temperature stability.

Max safe temps on a Phenom II is about 65 degrees Celsius. Beyond that, the CPU will throttle (usually the board will enforce this). At about 90 degrees Celsius, the CPU will force halt.

Recent Intels can do 80 degrees Celsius no problem, but leakages skyrocket when you use liquid nitrogen or other sub-zero coolings.

Some interesting reads related to this:

http://www.overclock.net/t/1128821/amd-temp-information-and-guide

particularly

http://www.overclock.net/t/931241/interesting-information-from-amd-about-1090t
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 7:15:19 PM

samuelspark said:
I don't think it's CPU temps. The maximum operating temperature of my i5 2500k is 72.6 but it goes up to 80-90 and there are no problems.


Every model of CPU has a different max safe temp. the safe operating temp of a 2500k has absolutely nothing to do the the safe temp of a phenom.

The 60-65c safe temp for phenoms has been not only released by AMD but confirmed by enthusiasts who actually own and tinker with the processors.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 7:22:33 PM

from official AMD/intel websites.
tcase 125w phenom = 62c
tcase 2500k = 72.6c

While most of the time, you can go 10-15c above the tcase before the CPU gets throttled down, this is definitely not a guarantee. If your 2500k temps are regularly hitting 90c, you should take a long hard look at your cooling solution.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 7:25:43 PM

quilciri said:
from official AMD/intel websites.
tcase 125w phenom = 62c
tcase 2500k = 72.6c

While most of the time, you can go 10-15c above the tcase before the CPU gets throttled down, this is definitely not a guarantee. If your 2500k temps are regularly hitting 90c, you should take a long hard look at your cooling solution.


From what I have seen and read, AM3, AM3+ boards force throttle fairly aggressively once you reach that 62 degrees C. On my ASUS boards, it starts around 64 degrees C. On my Gigabyte boards, it starts around 65 degrees C. Pretty much the same as far as I can tell, since the readings have uncertainties tied to them anyway.

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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 7:38:39 PM

Fair enough. Never owned a phenom myself. Point being, the tcase of the 2500k is the price of tea in china..completely irrelevant to this thread :) 

Thanks for the input, didn't know that phenoms throttled that early. I reccommend even more strongly that you grab an aftermarket cooler; AMD's stock air coolers are...well...sad.
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a b U Graphics card
December 2, 2012 10:50:04 PM

quilciri said:
Fair enough. Never owned a phenom myself. Point being, the tcase of the 2500k is the price of tea in china..completely irrelevant to this thread :) 

Thanks for the input, didn't know that phenoms throttled that early. I reccommend even more strongly that you grab an aftermarket cooler; AMD's stock air coolers are...well...sad.


That's a truth! AMD stock air coolers have only gotten worse since the Phenom I series. Business decisions, I guess...
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December 3, 2012 3:01:02 AM

I can get the cooler installed only by Saturday (Monday-Friday gottta go to work). I'll update once i have the cooler installed.

I really hope it solves the issue. We'll have to wait till weekend.

Admins please do not close this thread. Not just yet.


Thank you all
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a b U Graphics card
December 3, 2012 12:43:26 PM

sunnyrokxx said:
OK now about the cabinet..

will the Hyper 212 fit in this?

http://www.gigabyte.com/products/product-page.aspx?pid=...


Thank you


Well the Hyper is 158.5 mm tall, your case is 190 mm wide (tower heatsinks goes in width wise with respect to the case). You should measure with a tape measure from the CPU top and see if you have 158.5mm to spare.

My guess is YES. Since you have a 120mm fan at the rear, and the width is fairly substantial, the Hyper 212 should fit. For safe measures, I'd strongly recommend measuring that distance I mentioned though.

Afterwards you can run Intel CPU Burn http://www.softpedia.com/get/System/Benchmarks/IntelBurnTest.shtml and see what your temperatures are like with the heatsink and whether or not your CPU is throttling.
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a b U Graphics card
December 3, 2012 10:43:43 PM

sunnyrokxx said:
It's an ASUS M5 A88M AM3+ Mobo


Are you overclocking the processor any by chance ?
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a c 105 U Graphics card
a b À AMD
December 3, 2012 11:15:23 PM

you can change anything and everything. but if you don't get rid of the low end trash video card NOTHING is going to change.
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December 4, 2012 1:35:12 AM

Maxx_Power said:
Are you overclocking the processor any by chance ?



Nope not all.. runs at stock 3.5 Ghz
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December 4, 2012 1:44:02 AM

swifty_morgan said:
you can change anything and everything. but if you don't get rid of the low end trash video card NOTHING is going to change.


AMD HD 5770 is no way a "Low end thrash Video card"

Yes it is not the fastest, values in the low to mid range. But it is still a good card.

Far cry 3 recommended GFX card is 5770. So the card will still do if not ultra but certainly run most games in High settings.

In my case, the 5770 might be failing and may be it's time to upgrade. But it could also be the HEAT in the processor.

All I am trying to say is the 5770 is not the weakest card. I am using it. I know

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