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120hz tv.

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December 4, 2012 2:45:54 PM

Hello, im looking to get some information about tv's with 120hz and 240hz. and also looking to get some information regarding which cable i need to use to get the 120hz. Computer specs :graphics card is a radeon hd 5770 dell xps studio 9100 22gb of ram. intel core 17 920 at 2.67ghz 1000gb western digital hdd. a 500 gb WD hdd and 2000gb seagate hdd.

More about : 120hz

December 4, 2012 2:48:58 PM

i have read up on tv's that interpolate up to 120hz but they also have the new tv's out that are 120hz and interpolate up to 240hz would these tv's work to get the frame rates im looking for in my games? if so would i need to find a tv that accepts display port like the commercial samsung http://www.samsung.com/us/business/commercial-display-s... or could i use a tv with the new hdmi 1.4
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December 4, 2012 3:00:18 PM

infernoman29301 said:
i have read up on tv's that interpolate up to 120hz but they also have the new tv's out that are 120hz and interpolate up to 240hz would these tv's work to get the frame rates im looking for in my games? if so would i need to find a tv that accepts display port like the commercial samsung http://www.samsung.com/us/business/commercial-display-s... or could i use a tv with the new hdmi 1.4


What games are you playing that you think you can get up to 120-240 fps with a 5770???
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December 4, 2012 3:13:57 PM

A 120Hz tv only accepts a 60Hz input signal. Basically all it does is show each frame twice as many times as a 60Hz tv. Buy a new gpu instead.
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December 4, 2012 4:28:37 PM

im actually playing black ops 2 right now with between 150-200 fps. all settings maxed. im getting a new GPU for christmas. the hd3d capable tv's are running at 120hz for amd's 3d setting. and some monitors are now capable of 120hz. yes SOME tv's interpolate from 60hz to 120 but they're starting to get into 120hz with interpolation to 240. so yes technically speaking right now my tv is interpolating the image and adding extra frames and im getting 120hz. but i want my graphics card to be outputting 120hz straight to the tv where it then can interpolate to 240hz. and i need to know which type of cable i should be using for this. if i need a display port cable that means ill need a tv like i posted above that will give me 120hz through displayport. because i am unsure if you are able to get 120hz out of hdmi 1.4 as i know the 1.3 you cannot
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December 4, 2012 5:41:59 PM

infernoman29301 said:
Hello, im looking to get some information about tv's with 120hz and 240hz. and also looking to get some information regarding which cable i need to use to get the 120hz. Computer specs :graphics card is a radeon hd 5770 dell xps studio 9100 22gb of ram. intel core 17 920 at 2.67ghz 1000gb western digital hdd. a 500 gb WD hdd and 2000gb seagate hdd.


You won't get 120hz or 240hz from a tv hooked up to a computer. It's only 60hz. TV and Computer displays for anything over 60hz are different from each other.
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December 4, 2012 6:35:42 PM

You would need Dual Link DVI or display port to run 120Hz 1080p (or 3d in a similar fashion). I have never seen a TV that supports this, but it's been a few months since I've checked.

Be aware of the brand aliegiences of the different 3d techs, Nvidia I believe only supports full 1080p/60fps-per-eye 3d over DL-DVI, otherwise you sacrifice framerate/resolution over hdmi. AMD supports HD3d over Display Port or DL-DVI, though the preferred is display port (there maybe some drawbacks to DL-DVI for AMD, but I'm not sure). Nvidia's 3d solution is a lot easier to use, however Tridef (typical 3rd party driver needed for AMD HD3d) often offers a more tailored experience when it works right (I think both are equally flakey). You can run Tridef with nVidia, but I believe there are some limitations (no support for frame sequential/full resolution 3d).

HDMI is absolutely not going to give you what you need (unless there is a new HDMI spec beyond 1.4a, and you get a gpu that supports this, which I don't think exists), so be careful. Be aware that Dual Link DVI is not the same as regular DVI, if the TV isn't specific, you should expect single link.
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December 4, 2012 6:37:03 PM

120hz would be capable on a tv as ive gotten up to 75hz at 1024x764 through hdmi. and the tv is also reading 75hz. so your theory has been broken about that. also nvidia 3d and amd hd3d REQUIRE true 120hz tv's that DO NOT interpolate frames. so 120hz from pc to tv is possible. just i need to know if it is capable through hdmi or if i need display port.
http://sites.amd.com/us/recommended/Pages/hd3d-panels.a...
http://www.nvidia.ca/object/3d-vision-displays.html

Both list 3d displays running at 120hz. i dont care about the 3d just the framerates. if i were to get one of these displays would i be able to do 120hz through hdmi. Also could my video card be affecting this. someone brought it up in a post earlier and im only able to get 75hz which is the max my tv is capable of at 1024x768 and lower. no hdmi resolutions either
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December 4, 2012 6:48:59 PM

infernoman29301 said:
120hz would be capable on a tv as ive gotten up to 75hz at 1024x764 through hdmi. and the tv is also reading 75hz. so your theory has been broken about that. also nvidia 3d and amd hd3d REQUIRE true 120hz tv's that DO NOT interpolate frames. so 120hz from pc to tv is possible. just i need to know if it is capable through hdmi or if i need display port.
http://sites.amd.com/us/recommended/Pages/hd3d-panels.a...
http://www.nvidia.ca/object/3d-vision-displays.html

Both list 3d displays running at 120hz. i dont care about the 3d just the framerates. if i were to get one of these displays would i be able to do 120hz through hdmi. Also could my video card be affecting this. someone brought it up in a post earlier and im only able to get 75hz which is the max my tv is capable of at 1024x768 and lower. no hdmi resolutions either


There is nothing about TV's that prevent higher framerates (they are just large TN panels, just like a monitor), however there is nothing that guarantees they will accept higher refresh rate inputs either. The TV you linked above had DisplayPort, but it's more for multi-monitor support I think than for the bandwidth (it talks about digital signage), I saw no references to 120Hz support.

I would be very careful with your purchase, because TV's aren't really meant for being giant 3d gaming monitors for the PC (which is why no good 3d pc gaming tv's exist yet), you may find a 120Hz display port TV, that despite having all the right features, has an input controller that is limited to 60Hz, and can only achieve 120Hz through upsampling, but since it's a TV, they don't bother to be specific about it.
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December 4, 2012 6:55:19 PM

In gaming, 120FPS is often difficult to achieve at high resolutions, I've got a 7870 that doesn't quite cut it for 120FPS at 1080p; some games you may encounter CPU bottlenecks as well, an OC'd i5/i7 is your best bet for overcoming that, but I don't think it's always possible, depending on the game.

The TV you linked from Dell:
V-Sync Rate at Max Res. 60 Hz
Max V-Sync Rate 85 Hz

Still not there. If you don't care about resolution, HDMI 1.4a can do 120Hz if you run at 720p (this will lighten the burden on your GPU too).

Keep in mind, it's very possible that what you are trying to find may not exist at all.
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December 4, 2012 7:00:36 PM

almost..... has dvi-d display port vga but only runs at 60hz. also 120hz at 720 would be fine i cant see with the 1080p resolution on the computer so i play most of my games in 720p aswell. i just cannot figure my problem out as to why i am being limited right now. thats the reason im looking to upgrade. in any game but CODBO2 i cant run anything over the refresh rate of the tv. kind of like v sync is on but in codbo2 i have no problems getting fps's of up to 200 and NEVER under 100 while on most wanted im running 60 max. what is limiting me here then and maxing out my frame rate?
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December 4, 2012 7:08:26 PM

Humans cannot see past 60hz or 60fps anyway. The action may be smoother because of a better video processor, but 120hz is for marketing only (or 3D viewing).
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December 4, 2012 7:08:36 PM

also the graphics card i will be updating to is the radeon hd 7950. and we may not be able to see over 120fps but if im limited to 60hz and my computer decides to lag a bit the 60fps drops down to around 45 and that is noticeable. on CODBO2 im running at MINIMUM 100fps and i cant notice even if the frame rate drops the slightest bit.
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December 4, 2012 7:13:44 PM

it seems as if v-sync is force enabled but in the settings it has been force disabled. and the application is not allowed to control it.
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December 4, 2012 7:20:49 PM

maestro0428 said:
Humans cannot see past 60hz or 60fps anyway. The action may be smoother because of a better video processor, but 120hz is for marketing only (or 3D viewing).

Sorry, but that's wrong. This myth has been debunked so many times it's not even funny - there's a huge difference, and the human eye can see it. The myth arose from 34 frame/second movies, but that was the camera's limitation. We can see far past 60fps.
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December 4, 2012 7:21:49 PM

maestro0428 said:
Humans cannot see past 60hz or 60fps anyway. The action may be smoother because of a better video processor, but 120hz is for marketing only (or 3D viewing).


That's a common misconception (one that I used to be quite vocally wrong about). The eye does not have a refresh rate, there is no hard and fast limit to the limit we can detect change. The misconception (at least for me) comes from the fact that old CRT's would have a perceivable flicker if below 60Hz (which is true, we can't perceive binary blinking once it passes a certain rate) which caused eyestrain.

However, different regions of the eye have different capabilities, and the filtering and response time of the brain also play their part. In effect, you can't really equate the capabilities of a human vision to those of a camera, because it's just not the same (just like you can't determine the computing power of the brain).

A quick look at a game in 120hz was enough to seal the deal. You absolutely can see the difference.
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December 4, 2012 7:22:49 PM

DarkSable said:
Sorry, but that's wrong. This myth has been debunked so many times it's not even funny - there's a huge difference, and the human eye can see it. The myth arose from 34 frame/second movies, but that was the camera's limitation. We can see far past 60fps.


I like how you provided detailed proof of your theory, very interesting facts you presented!
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December 4, 2012 7:25:13 PM

Derza10 said:
I like how you provided detailed proof of your theory, very interesting facts you presented!

I'm at work, and can't go finding the facts for him, but a google search will prove everything needed.

No need to get passive aggressive.
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December 4, 2012 7:30:41 PM

infernoman29301 said:
also the graphics card i will be updating to is the radeon hd 7950. and we may not be able to see over 120fps but if im limited to 60hz and my computer decides to lag a bit the 60fps drops down to around 45 and that is noticeable. on CODBO2 im running at MINIMUM 100fps and i cant notice even if the frame rate drops the slightest bit.


Sudden changes in visible FPS are noticeable no matter what your framerate (although runing 100fps on a 60hz display, if it drops to 60fps, you won't notice that). Often that's because a sudden dip in your running FPS meter requires a rather long delay in a particular frame (such as a full second hiccup where no frame is completed), in order to drag the running average down suddenly.

A faster display makes a smooth image look smoother, but it won't resolve issues where your computer isn't keeping up with the display. I think you're drawing the wrong conclusion from a misleading observation; correlation is not causation. If you enable vsync in codblops2, you probably won't see any new hiccuping.

Often, games are the cause of such hiccups, places where the game suddenly has to load an asset (video or sound) from the HDD, or where they have some complex computation to do, a bug, or simply huge fancy effects that momentarily choke your GPU.
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December 4, 2012 7:54:14 PM

well my problem isnt in cod black ops 2. ive been having troubles with assasins creed 3 and need for speed most wanted. call of duty black ops doesnt have vsync on and the frame rates are not limited. im having no troubles with black ops as it is getting frame rates of about 100-200 fps and when it drops i cant see any video lag. with most wanted 2 MAX framerates are 60 fps and when it drops it makes a noticable difference in my video
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December 4, 2012 8:02:38 PM

infernoman29301 said:
well my problem isnt in cod black ops 2. ive been having troubles with assasins creed 3 and need for speed most wanted. call of duty black ops doesnt have vsync on and the frame rates are not limited. im having no troubles with black ops as it is getting frame rates of about 100-200 fps and when it drops i cant see any video lag. with most wanted 2 MAX framerates are 60 fps and when it drops it makes a noticable difference in my video


You won't have any issue if you enable vsync in codblops2 though, even if it is limited to 60fps. The max framerate has nothing to do with the minimum, the minimum framerate has nothing to do with your monitor (unless min and max are both at the cap of course), and the minimum framerate is what it is because of a lot of things (the maximum is determined by bottlenecks of the system and any fps caps in place, but the minimum can be dragged down by just about any thing.

Some games are just badly programmed/optimized, you can't always fix hiccups with more power.

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December 4, 2012 9:04:56 PM

the maximum is obviously capped and you are correct that with v sync enabled im also not receiving any interference. so why is it that in other games the fps is maxed at 60 and cod offers an unlimited fps. also i can switch to 75hz 1024x768 while playing most wanted and get better fps but the graphics are crap. is it just the games and one is properly programmed and optimized while the other just wont allow you to?
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December 4, 2012 9:10:46 PM

codbo2 has a feature in the options "sync every frame" it quotes " match screen updates to your monitors refresh rate. this will cap your fps to your monitors refresh rate but will prevent screen tearing." so would a better tv with graphics card not be what im looking for to increase my fps and refresh rate at the same time? while also giving me a better looking picture. i just want 720p with a nice refresh rate and fps. you stated that hdmi 1.4 would do 120hz at 720p but currently my graphics card is not capable of this apparently either. im looking into all of the because i am getting the new graphics card and want to be able to use the 120hz available on higher resolutions.
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December 5, 2012 1:22:54 PM

The refresh rate of your monitor will increase the capped FPS when v-sync (or "sync every frame") is enabled, however this cap is not causing your poor FPS.

A more powerful graphics card will help smooth these situations; a 5770 is not a very powerful card, because COD games are generally a broadly marketed game on both PC and Consoles, they have a lot of optimizations (and are not extremely demanding graphically to begin with I hear), so a lot more effort has gone into getting that game to run smoothly. Need For Speed games, on the other hand, are popular on consoles, and most of the PC versions are minimal-effort ports. A more powerful GPU will help many situations where your framerate dips, but it's not a silver bullet either (as all the other stuff above can also cause hiccups even with powerful graphics and CPU, sometimes it's just the game).

A new TV will not impact your minimum framerate (which is the root of your complaint). A new GPU will definately improve your average FPS, and should resolve most of the stuttering you would see.

A 7870 is a pretty strong choice for 1080p@60hz it's powerful enough to run today's games smoothly at max settings, and should be able to run high detail levels for several years.

Keep in mind that when upgrading your GPU, the capability of your power supply is very important in determining what graphics card you can get, often prebuilt PC's have a PSU sized only for what the computer is sold with, so it maybe neccessary for you to upgrade that as well. For a 7870, a 500W power supply is recommended, if you have any concerns, be sure to post your power supply model, rating and the Amperage of the 12v rail(s). If your PSU isn't adequate, it could damage the PSU (and possibly the system) and will cause instability during gaming (and other demanding situations).
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December 5, 2012 1:54:23 PM

The reason that TV's do not accept 120hz of input is due to the lack of the proper connectors. HDMI up to 1.4a can only accept 60hz worth of input.

A new standard, HDMI 1.4b does, but good luck finding a TV with that connection. I've never heard of it.

Back to 1.4a and HD3D. As someone has mistakenly deducted, even though HD3D is capable of delivering 3D at 60hz per eye with a resolution of 720p, it cannot display 120hz at 720p. The way it works with HD3D is they use frame packing. They bundle up 2 frames together, and send it to the monitor at once, then the monitor will display the two images at alternating refreshes. Without 3D, this doesn't work.

You will have to find a HDMI 1.4b TV, one with Dual Link DVI-D or Displayport, otherwise you cannot use a TV beyond 60hz.
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December 7, 2012 2:57:28 AM

thank you for clearing up so many of my questions all at once guys. ive gone to upgrade my hdmi cable and my tv keeps coming up with mode not supported unless in 1080p so i also scrapped that idea because i cant boot with it if i need to go into bios or anything the cable wont put out 1024x768@60hz. anyways my next question is for farcry 3 over the past few days ive been screwing with my graphics card and trying to get videos to convert automatically while playing into 1080p. i installed the new far cry 3 and was trying to get my frame rates up in that which i succeeded to do so. had far cry running around 80-120 fps at its best and now cannot remember how. after that i have crashed my computer and had to reinstall windows thanks to ffdshow and smooth video project. after i installed that my gpu was running at 100% all the time and kept crashing. re install windows and far cry and amd catalyst 12.11 with all of my settings on low for the game aa on w/ morphological filtering and all other settings turned off i again cant get them to over 60 and they''re around 45-60 when playing
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