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HOw do I make a DVD from my Laserdiscs (including 5.1ch AC..

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December 5, 2004 11:36:55 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Is this possible?

Thanks,

Tom
Anonymous
December 5, 2004 6:58:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

tomloi@hotmail.com (Tom) wrote...
> Is this possible?

Yes, it is possible and has been posted here and alt.dvd.authoring ad
nauseam. Do a simple google groups search. Here's my solution...

<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=139de...;

HTH,

-Junior
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 2:33:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 5 Dec 2004 08:36:55 -0800, tomloi@hotmail.com (Tom) wrote:

>Is this possible?

Sure is. You want to make something quick and easy (and not 5.1)?
Record onto a standalone DVD recorder. The video will be average, the
sound will be stereo. But you'll be done in the running time of your
disc.

Want to do better? Better get ready for quite a large learning curve,
spending some money, and taking some considerable time.

The best method would resemble something like as follows:

Step One:
- buy a decent LD player (Pioneer 704 and up?)
- buy an AC3-RF demodulator (eBay?)
- buy a decent PC cap card (Philips or Conexant 9- or 10-bit chipset)
- buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)
- download a capture application (VirtualVCR? The best ones are free)
- download VirtualDubMod (free)
- download AviSynth (free)
- download HuffYUV codec (free)
- download BeSweet (free)
- download CCE or TMPGEnc (sorta free)
- buy a big hard drive (NOT free)

Step Two:
- visit doom9.org and/or videohelp.com
- read, read, read
- read a little more

Step Three:
- cap your disc(s): HuffYUV YUY2, 720 x 480, 29.97fps
- you can eliminate rot by getting three individual copies of any
disc, and using AviSynth to average the best two sources for every
pixel in every frame
- cap AC3 audio from demodulator into CoolEdit Pro (now Adobe
Audition). Audacity (free) might also work; not sure

Step Four:
- IVTC (if the source is a movie) with AviSynth
- do other cleanup and filtering with AviSynth (e.g. colour correct,
sharpen, rotoscope, remove dust, etc., etc. -- this can make a
dramatic difference to the final result)
- make the picture anamorphic with AviSynth (optional)
- render video to MPEG-2 with either CCE or TMPGEnc
- render audio to AC-3 (if it isn't AC-3 already) with BeSweet

Step Five:
- author with DVD authoring package of choice (DVDlab is powerful and
cheap).

Step Six:
- phone up all your old friends, and tell them you're still alive
despite your year-long disappearance.
Related resources
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 2:33:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote...
> Step Six:
> - phone up all your old friends, and tell them you're still alive
> despite your year-long disappearance.

LOL! Good one, G. Thanks for brightening my day!

-Junior
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 8:11:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
: - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)

How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 8:11:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 6 Dec 2004 05:11:43 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>: - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)

>How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?

Locate two RCA cables.

Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
connect other end to demodulator.

Get ahold of second cable. Connect one end to demodulator's output and connect
it to the s/pdif (ac3) input of sound card.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 8:20:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:cp0pmf$7a$3@news3.bu.edu...
> Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
> : - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)
>
> How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?
>
> --Leonid

After teh LD's AC-3 RF is modulated, now its regular old digital ac-3, you
can plug it in and capture it using any PC soundcard with a digital input,
many models have that feature now.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 8:57:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 5 Dec 2004 18:43:48 -0800, watsona@kenyon.edu (unclejr) wrote:

>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote...
>> Step Six:
>> - phone up all your old friends, and tell them you're still alive
>> despite your year-long disappearance.
>
>LOL! Good one, G. Thanks for brightening my day!
>
>-Junior

Heh, heh... you're welcome. I know that that LOL of yours is from
bitter (?) experience!

Thank goodness for understanding partners, eh?
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 9:03:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 23:22:34 -0600, TCS
<The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:

>On 6 Dec 2004 05:11:43 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>>: - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)
>
>>How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?
>
>Locate two RCA cables.
>
>Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
>connect other end to demodulator.
>
>Get ahold of second cable. Connect one end to demodulator's output and connect
>it to the s/pdif (ac3) input of sound card.

Yup: it really is almost that simple. The one remaining caveat is that
even if you've got a sound card (or, even worse, on-board sound) with
S/PDIF in, it may resample all the incoming audio, destroying the
"AC3-ness" of the incoming bitstream.

In fact, most on-board sound is AC-97, which I believe *specifies*
resampling of input audio, so an external card is probably a
necessity.

There are cheap sound cards that don't resample, just as there are
more expensive ones that do. You'll likely have to do a little
homework -- perhaps including some testing.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 11:55:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 06:03:59 GMT, Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>On Sun, 05 Dec 2004 23:22:34 -0600, TCS
><The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:

>>On 6 Dec 2004 05:11:43 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>>>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>>>: - buy a decent sound card (one that doesn't resample AC3 on input)
>>
>>>How do you plug AC-3 into your soundcard?
>>
>>Locate two RCA cables.
>>
>>Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
>>connect other end to demodulator.
>>
>>Get ahold of second cable. Connect one end to demodulator's output and connect
>>it to the s/pdif (ac3) input of sound card.

>Yup: it really is almost that simple. The one remaining caveat is that
>even if you've got a sound card (or, even worse, on-board sound) with
>S/PDIF in, it may resample all the incoming audio, destroying the
>"AC3-ness" of the incoming bitstream.

>In fact, most on-board sound is AC-97, which I believe *specifies*
>resampling of input audio, so an external card is probably a
>necessity.

>There are cheap sound cards that don't resample, just as there are
>more expensive ones that do. You'll likely have to do a little
>homework -- perhaps including some testing.

That's the *real* problem. Connecting the cables is trivial. Finding software
cheaper than simply replacing all your movies is the difficult part.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 7:06:30 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:55:39 -0600, TCS
<The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:

>Finding software
>cheaper than simply replacing all your movies is the difficult part.

I disagree!

For movies/other material that just doesn't exist outside LD, there's
no other choice than to do it yourself. But it's the time and effort
that's the difficult part, not finding cheap software.

Almost all of the software I use is freeware or cheap shareware, and
excellent. That includes VirtualVCR, the HuffYUV lossless codec,
VirtualDubMod, AviSynth, TMPGEnc, BeSweet, and Audacity. I believe
there are still free trial versions of CoolEdit Pro and CCE out there
somewhere. I haven't upgraded my DVDlab for a while, but as I recall
that's another cheap/free trial, and even the full product is cheap.

Turning to hardware, a suitable cap card is about $80CAD, and a
suitable soundcard could be as little as $50CAD.

So the most expensive parts are the demodulator (only for AC-3), the
LD player itself -- which it seems many people participating in this
forum have few troubles justifying, if some of the -X0/-X9 threads are
to be believed -- and generic stuff like hard drive space.

Don't count up the hours you end up spending chasing perfection,
though: even at overseas-running-shoe-factory labour rates, you'll be
appalled at how much it "costs".

Pretty fun, though.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 7:06:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 16:06:30 GMT, Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>On Mon, 06 Dec 2004 08:55:39 -0600, TCS
><The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:

>>Finding software
>>cheaper than simply replacing all your movies is the difficult part.

>I disagree!

>For movies/other material that just doesn't exist outside LD, there's
>no other choice than to do it yourself. But it's the time and effort
>that's the difficult part, not finding cheap software.

>Almost all of the software I use is freeware or cheap shareware, and
>excellent. That includes VirtualVCR, the HuffYUV lossless codec,
>VirtualDubMod, AviSynth, TMPGEnc, BeSweet, and Audacity. I believe
>there are still free trial versions of CoolEdit Pro and CCE out there
>somewhere. I haven't upgraded my DVDlab for a while, but as I recall
>that's another cheap/free trial, and even the full product is cheap.

excuse me. I asked the exact question about 8 months ago and was told
by all the regulars that there was no solution less than about $2500.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 7:29:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
: Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
: connect other end to demodulator.

Ok, I get it. The RF AC3 from LD is an analog signal, correct? AC-3 is not
stored digitally on LaserDisc.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 7:29:07 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 6 Dec 2004 16:29:06 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
>: Get ahold of first cable. Connect one end to RF AC3 out of laser disk and
>: connect other end to demodulator.

>Ok, I get it. The RF AC3 from LD is an analog signal, correct? AC-3 is not
>stored digitally on LaserDisc.

correct. Don't ask me why, but the last step of demodulation is never done
in the laserdisc player.
Anonymous
December 6, 2004 7:33:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
: Yup: it really is almost that simple. The one remaining caveat is that
: even if you've got a sound card (or, even worse, on-board sound) with
: S/PDIF in, it may resample all the incoming audio, destroying the
: "AC3-ness" of the incoming bitstream.

I have read the reports that soundblasters were resampling digital audio. That's
why I stay away from Creative. M-Audio copied digital audio signals as is.
I hope the soundcard I'm using now (http://productsen.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&n...) also copies as is.


Now, if you do the proper connections and stuff, then do the capturing in
VirtualVCR into AVI file. Then demux audio. What format of WAV file is it
going to be. You get the AC-3 in. So when you load your audio to any sound
editors, how many channels is it going to show? Is it also going to be an
uncompressed WAV file?

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 7, 2004 11:22:03 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Leonid Makarovsky wrote:
> Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
> : Yup: it really is almost that simple. The one remaining caveat is that
> : even if you've got a sound card (or, even worse, on-board sound) with
> : S/PDIF in, it may resample all the incoming audio, destroying the
> : "AC3-ness" of the incoming bitstream.
>
> I have read the reports that soundblasters were resampling digital audio. That's
> why I stay away from Creative. M-Audio copied digital audio signals as is.
> I hope the soundcard I'm using now (http://productsen.terratec.net/modules.php?op=modload&n...) also copies as is.

Yes, it should. According to the website you linked your card (Terratec
Aureon 7.1 Universe) feautures a "Bit-true Digital input,
optical/coaxial, 44.1/48/96 kHz (TOS link)". This is what you want. I
own a Terratec EWX 24/96 and it also has a bit-true digital input
(optical only) and workes correctly.

> Now, if you do the proper connections and stuff, then do the capturing in
> VirtualVCR into AVI file. Then demux audio. What format of WAV file is it
> going to be. You get the AC-3 in. So when you load your audio to any sound
> editors, how many channels is it going to show? Is it also going to be an
> uncompressed WAV file?

You have to record the AC-3 audio stream to a 44.1 KHz 16 bit stereo
file. The AC-3 stream will be embedded in the wave file. If you play
this file back without software dsp or equalizer, using a soundcard with
bit-true sp-dif output to a external decoder, the external decoder
should pick up the AC-3 signal inside and decode it.

For DVD authoring only 48 KHz audio streams are supported. So you will
have to extract the AC-3 stream from the wave file, demux it, upsample
it to 48 KHz and then reencode it to AC-3. The best tool for this is
BeSweet (see www.doom9.org).

Greetings,
Martijn Bouterse
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 4:44:11 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Tue, 07 Dec 2004 20:22:03 +0100, Martijn Bouterse
<nospam@myaddress.com> wrote:

>You have to record the AC-3 audio stream to a 44.1 KHz 16 bit stereo
>file. The AC-3 stream will be embedded in the wave file.
>
>For DVD authoring only 48 KHz audio streams are supported. So you will
>have to extract the AC-3 stream from the wave file, demux it, upsample
>it to 48 KHz and then reencode it to AC-3.

Are you just saying, or have you done it? Because I am quite sure you
don't have to extract/demux/remux; LD AC-3 is already 48kHz. It's been
a long time since I messed around with this, but I believe you have to
record the original WAV at 48kHz, 16-bit stereo.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 5:21:31 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
: Are you just saying, or have you done it? Because I am quite sure you
: don't have to extract/demux/remux; LD AC-3 is already 48kHz. It's been
: a long time since I messed around with this, but I believe you have to
: record the original WAV at 48kHz, 16-bit stereo.

I don't know about LD AC-3 sampling rate. But LD digital audio is definitely
44.1kHz. So when I capture from LD, I always capture at 44.1kHz, and then
I resample with SSRC to 48kHz.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 5:21:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 8 Dec 2004 02:21:31 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>: Are you just saying, or have you done it? Because I am quite sure you
>: don't have to extract/demux/remux; LD AC-3 is already 48kHz. It's been
>: a long time since I messed around with this, but I believe you have to
>: record the original WAV at 48kHz, 16-bit stereo.

>I don't know about LD AC-3 sampling rate. But LD digital audio is definitely
>44.1kHz. So when I capture from LD, I always capture at 44.1kHz, and then
>I resample with SSRC to 48kHz.

You're confusing the LD's digital audio with the AC3. It's AC3 is 48khz.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:13:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

> I have read the reports that soundblasters were resampling digital audio.
That's
> why I stay away from Creative.

Its the software that resamples it. If installed correctly it wont do this.

/Kenneth Iversen
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:13:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Kenneth Iversen <kenneth.iversen@notvalid.tele.duh> wrote:
: Its the software that resamples it. If installed correctly it wont do this.

No, it wasn't software. It was soundblaster's drivers.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:21:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
: The resampling occurs in the firmware of the card. The signal path is so

Sorry, not drivers, but indeed firmware. I haven't owned one, but I've read
many reports before choosing the proper soundcard.

As far as LD AC-3 goes. I'm a bit confused. What is the proper way to watch
LDs with AC-3?

I understand that I have to run it through demodulator and plug it to the
receiver. Now the question is - is it in addition to digital audio so that
I have 2 digital audio channels and 3 AC-3 channels. Or AC-3 alone is good
enough?

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:21:03 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 8 Dec 2004 03:21:02 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
>: The resampling occurs in the firmware of the card. The signal path is so

>Sorry, not drivers, but indeed firmware. I haven't owned one, but I've read
>many reports before choosing the proper soundcard.

>As far as LD AC-3 goes. I'm a bit confused. What is the proper way to watch
>LDs with AC-3?

>I understand that I have to run it through demodulator and plug it to the
>receiver. Now the question is - is it in addition to digital audio so that
>I have 2 digital audio channels and 3 AC-3 channels. Or AC-3 alone is good
>enough?

You have one AC3 signal that can carry up to six audio tracks --
front left, front center, front right, rear left, rear right, and low frequency
effects. Or the AC3 data can carry fewer tracks.

AC3 uses compression like MP3's; Some people prefer the uncompressed digital
audio track. The digital audio track isn't compressed, and is similar to CD
audio.

I almost always prefer AC3 for movies unless it was particularly badly done.
Sometimes I prefer the digital audio track for music video discs.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 7:19:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
: You have one AC3 signal that can carry up to six audio tracks --
: front left, front center, front right, rear left, rear right, and low frequency
: effects. Or the AC3 data can carry fewer tracks.

That's 5.1. I didn't know it was implemented on LDs. I thought that it could
be possible to carry front and 2 rear backs in AC-3 along with 2 digital audio
front left/right channels.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 7:19:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 8 Dec 2004 04:19:51 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>TCS <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> wrote:
>: You have one AC3 signal that can carry up to six audio tracks --
>: front left, front center, front right, rear left, rear right, and low frequency
>: effects. Or the AC3 data can carry fewer tracks.

>That's 5.1. I didn't know it was implemented on LDs. I thought that it could
>be possible to carry front and 2 rear backs in AC-3 along with 2 digital audio
>front left/right channels.

When you listen to the AC3 soundtrack, you don't use the digital audio
track. The AC3 carries up to 5 channels plus a low frequency effects
channel. THe digital audio on such a movie is usually has prologic surround
sound but that's another technology.
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:57:00 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

unclejr <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote:
: Yes, it is possible and has been posted here and alt.dvd.authoring ad
: nauseam. Do a simple google groups search. Here's my solution...

: <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=139de...;

: DD 5.1. You will have to capture with the C-Media CMI 8738 sound card
: to get a bit for bit recording of AC-3 audio (from your RF
: demodulator) onto your computer in PCM (48 kHz, 16-bit, stereo)
: format. AFAIK, the CMI 8738 is the ONLY chip set that will allow you
: to capture the AC3 data without corrupting it. Once you purchase a

Are you serious? So this $30 value card is the only one that will not mess
AC-3 up? Very hard to believe.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 8, 2004 6:57:01 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 8 Dec 2004 15:57:00 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>unclejr <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote:
>: Yes, it is possible and has been posted here and alt.dvd.authoring ad
>: nauseam. Do a simple google groups search. Here's my solution...

>: <http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=139de...;

>: DD 5.1. You will have to capture with the C-Media CMI 8738 sound card
>: to get a bit for bit recording of AC-3 audio (from your RF
>: demodulator) onto your computer in PCM (48 kHz, 16-bit, stereo)
>: format. AFAIK, the CMI 8738 is the ONLY chip set that will allow you
>: to capture the AC3 data without corrupting it. Once you purchase a

>Are you serious? So this $30 value card is the only one that will not mess
>AC-3 up? Very hard to believe.

There are lots of cards that won't mess s/pdif up, but it doesn't take a
whole heck of a lot to do it, just a interface and buffer, really.

M-Audio has some really expensive solutions if you really need that special
feeling of pride that comes from having spent too much.
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 12:10:27 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Leonid Makarovsky wrote...
> Are you serious? So this $30 value card is the only one that will not
mess
> AC-3 up? Very hard to believe.

Yes, I'm dead serious. It works like a charm if you update the drivers
from the C-Media site that I posted in the past.

HTH,

-Junior
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 2:49:43 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Kenneth Iversen <kenneth.iversen@notvalid.tele.duh> wrote:
: Well that is not what I have been told. Anyways I know that if i play
: a 44khz soundfile and I record that also to the harddrive it is
: recorded in 44khz...with my audigy 2.


Maybe with Audigy 2 they learned how to do it. I read the reports 2-3 years ago.

Also they were not true 24 bit card unlike what they were advertising.

http://www.tomshardware.com/consumer/20020115/terratec-...

Although maybe yours is true 24 bit.

Generally if the company misadvertises its product, I am staying away form it
for good.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 2:49:44 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 8 Dec 2004 23:49:43 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>Kenneth Iversen <kenneth.iversen@notvalid.tele.duh> wrote:
>: Well that is not what I have been told. Anyways I know that if i play
>: a 44khz soundfile and I record that also to the harddrive it is
>: recorded in 44khz...with my audigy 2.


>Maybe with Audigy 2 they learned how to do it. I read the reports 2-3 years ago.

The live! and audigy resample everything. You can feed them any sample
rate and read at any sample rate. They'll autocrappilly do the conversion
wether you want the 17 stages of mixing, resampling, and equalization or
not.
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 11:53:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Leonid Makarovsky wrote:
> I don't question the ability of C-Media not to mess up digital AC-3
sound. I
> question your statement that C-Media is the only card that is capable
of
> doing so. What about Terratec, M-Audio, Lynx, Gina - cards like that?

I'm NOT claiming that the C-Media card is the ONLY card that is capable
of capturing AC-3 without resampling it, because it has been posted in
this NG that both the USB One and the Zoltrix cards can do the same
job. What I'm saying is that I don't know of any *chipset*, other than
the CMI 8738 chipset, that can capture AC-3 without corrupting it. I
do know from experience that the AC97 chipset won't work. I'm not
familiar with any of the cards that you've listed above, but IF they
can pass AC-3 sound without resampling, then I would be curious if any
of them use a chipset that is different than the CMI 8738 chipset.
HTH,

-Junior
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 11:58:34 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"TCS" <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:slrncrf7qr.seh.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net...
> The live! and audigy resample everything. You can feed them any sample
> rate and read at any sample rate. They'll autocrappilly do the conversion
> wether you want the 17 stages of mixing, resampling, and equalization or
> not.

Feel free to prove it, if you can.

/Kenneth Iversen
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 11:58:35 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

It's even on those sound blaster manuals. They re-sample. Sound blasters are
not for any serious jobs, they are only good for games.


"Kenneth Iversen" <kenneth.iversen@notvalid.tele.duh> wrote in message
news:41b805c9$0$218$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk...
> "TCS" <The-Central-Scrutinizer@p.o.b.o.x.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:slrncrf7qr.seh.The-Central-Scrutinizer@linux.client.comcast.net...
> > The live! and audigy resample everything. You can feed them any sample
> > rate and read at any sample rate. They'll autocrappilly do the
conversion
> > wether you want the 17 stages of mixing, resampling, and equalization or
> > not.
>
> Feel free to prove it, if you can.
>
> /Kenneth Iversen
>
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 1:39:45 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"TCS" wrote
>....autocrappilly

LOL.....good one :o D


--
Brian Hougaard Baldersbæk
Frejasvej 14
6400 Sønderborg
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 6:32:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

unclejr <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote:
: Leonid Makarovsky wrote...
:> Are you serious? So this $30 value card is the only one that will not
: mess
:> AC-3 up? Very hard to believe.

: Yes, I'm dead serious. It works like a charm if you update the drivers
: from the C-Media site that I posted in the past.

I don't question the ability of C-Media not to mess up digital AC-3 sound. I
question your statement that C-Media is the only card that is capable of
doing so. What about Terratec, M-Audio, Lynx, Gina - cards like that?

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 6:32:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 9 Dec 2004 15:32:47 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>unclejr <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote:
>: Leonid Makarovsky wrote...
>:> Are you serious? So this $30 value card is the only one that will not
>: mess
>:> AC-3 up? Very hard to believe.

>: Yes, I'm dead serious. It works like a charm if you update the drivers
>: from the C-Media site that I posted in the past.

>I don't question the ability of C-Media not to mess up digital AC-3 sound. I
>question your statement that C-Media is the only card that is capable of
>doing so. What about Terratec, M-Audio, Lynx, Gina - cards like that?

Of course it isn't the only chipset.
Anonymous
December 9, 2004 11:25:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

unclejr <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote:
: I'm NOT claiming that the C-Media card is the ONLY card that is capable
: of capturing AC-3 without resampling it, because it has been posted in
: this NG that both the USB One and the Zoltrix cards can do the same
: job. What I'm saying is that I don't know of any *chipset*, other than
: the CMI 8738 chipset, that can capture AC-3 without corrupting it. I
: do know from experience that the AC97 chipset won't work. I'm not
: familiar with any of the cards that you've listed above, but IF they
: can pass AC-3 sound without resampling, then I would be curious if any
: of them use a chipset that is different than the CMI 8738 chipset.
: HTH,


I don't know. Here's the link to TerraTec Aureon 7.1 Space SoundSystem.

http://www.xbitlabs.com/articles/multimedia/display/ter...

and another one:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/terratec-aureon71/i...

Unlike multimedia cards of the AC'97 standard, the digital interface of the Envy24/Envy24HT based cards do not suffer from oversampling of everything to the fixed frequency of 48 kHz. The test results prove it as information is transferred nearly bit-to-bit.


M-Audio revolution:

http://www.digit-life.com/articles2/m-audio-revolution7...

They use Envy 24T chipset. But I don't know what codecs they use for digital
interface.


--Leonid
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 3:52:05 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"pedro itriago" <73050.520nospam@compuserve.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:cp9csc$nog$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> It's even on those sound blaster manuals. They re-sample.

How odd...its not in my manual. I guess they must have forgotten
to include it.

/Kenneth Iversen
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 3:52:06 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Man, how I hate when people behave like being part of the board of directors
of a company & just keep stubbornly and robotically repeating that all
people telling them otherwise are ignorants or fools or whatever.

I don't have my manual right here, but believe me, is there. At least on
both my sounblaster live and extigy.

Since I don't have it with me around and you keep behaving like a reborn
saint Thomas, here's a quote from both a guy making a question who, great
golly, already knows the soundblasters all re-sapmle and the answer from a
creative representative stating that only two do not resample & even so, you
have to tell them not to, otherwise they are set to resample by default.

Here're the quotes:

Question:

<<<I would like to know if it is possible to get a bit-perfect NONE
RESAMPLED spdif soundstream from the Sound Blaster Audigy 2NX. I know that
all other Sound Blaster cards resample all sound at 48Khz, but it has been
debated if this also applies to the Audigy 2NX...>>>

Answer:

<<<MisterA2NX,

Only the Audigy 2 ZS and the Audigy 4 Pro cards have a bit-accurate mode.
With these cards you can turn on the bit accurate mode and there will not be
any resampling of the SPDIF input. The Audigy 2 NX does not have this
option.

Jeremy>>>

And here's the link to the creative web forum, just in case you still don't
believe:
http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?b...
message.id=2469&query.id=39288#M2469

I think now you can say I just made that page up to deceive you
--
Pole Dome Guitar Religion

I talk to the wind
My words are all carried away
I talk to the wind
The wind does not hear
The wind cannot hear"
King Crimson

"Kenneth Iversen" <kenneth.iversen@notvalid.tele.duh> wrote in message
news:41b8e545$0$230$edfadb0f@dread12.news.tele.dk...
> "pedro itriago" <73050.520nospam@compuserve.com> skrev i en meddelelse
> news:cp9csc$nog$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> > It's even on those sound blaster manuals. They re-sample.
>
> How odd...its not in my manual. I guess they must have forgotten
> to include it.
>
> /Kenneth Iversen
>
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 5:52:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

pedro itriago <73050.520nospam@compuserve.com> wrote:
: And here's the link to the creative web forum, just in case you still don't
: believe:
: http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?b...
: message.id=2469&query.id=39288#M2469

Wow. And this is even better:
http://www4.head-fi.org/forums/showthread.php?t=89379

So let's see if I understand. Soundblasters can't handle anything other than
48kHz or 96kHz both in and out, correct? In case you record from LaserDisc,
you need to set the sample rate to 44.1kHz to match the input, but SB will
resample it to 48kHz on the fly. However, if you plug the DVD Player's S/PDIF,
the SBs will copy bit for bit. Am I correct?

If not, than SB is certainly not for recording from LDs.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 8:29:21 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 10 Dec 2004 02:52:21 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu>
wrote:

>In case you record from LaserDisc,
>you need to set the sample rate to 44.1kHz to match the input

Careful: I'm quite sure that while LD PCM audio is 44.1kHz, the
demodulated AC-3 is 48kHz! So the SB can't be eliminated just by its
sample rates alone.
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 10:51:20 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"pedro itriago" <73050.520nospam@compuserve.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:cpavvl$3h1$1@ngspool-d02.news.aol.com...
> Man, how I hate when people behave like being part of the board of
directors
> of a company & just keep stubbornly and robotically repeating that all
> people telling them otherwise are ignorants or fools or whatever.

I never told any in here such a thing. It´s not my problem if you don´t
agree with me. I was looking for evidence of what you claim.

> I don't have my manual right here, but believe me, is there. At least on
> both my sounblaster live and extigy.
>
> Since I don't have it with me around and you keep behaving like a reborn
> saint Thomas, here's a quote from both a guy making a question who, great
> golly, already knows the soundblasters all re-sapmle and the answer from a
> creative representative stating that only two do not resample & even so,
you
> have to tell them not to, otherwise they are set to resample by default.
[snip]

Excactly and that was what I wrote earlier. My card do not resample...
if told not to.

> And here's the link to the creative web forum, just in case you still
don't
> believe:
>
http://forums.creative.com/creativelabs/board/message?b...
> message.id=2469&query.id=39288#M2469
>
> I think now you can say I just made that page up to deceive you

Not at all.

/Kenneth Iversen
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 7:01:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
:>In case you record from LaserDisc,
:>you need to set the sample rate to 44.1kHz to match the input

: Careful: I'm quite sure that while LD PCM audio is 44.1kHz, the
: demodulated AC-3 is 48kHz! So the SB can't be eliminated just by its
: sample rates alone.

Ooops. Yeah, my post only applies for digital audio (PCM).

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 10, 2004 9:27:40 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:cpch82$p52$2@news3.bu.edu...
> Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
> :>In case you record from LaserDisc,
> :>you need to set the sample rate to 44.1kHz to match the input
>
> : Careful: I'm quite sure that while LD PCM audio is 44.1kHz, the
> : demodulated AC-3 is 48kHz! So the SB can't be eliminated just by its
> : sample rates alone.
>
> Ooops. Yeah, my post only applies for digital audio (PCM).
>
> --Leonid

If you're attempting to make a DVD from a LD, if the LD has AC3 sound, you
would definitely want to use it instead of the stereo PCM soundtrack...
Anonymous
December 11, 2004 5:21:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Biz wrote:
> If you're attempting to make a DVD from a LD, if the LD has AC3
sound, you
> would definitely want to use it instead of the stereo PCM
soundtrack...

The only problem is that you would have to capture the audio and video
separately and then sync them later -- this can take HOURS of time.
-Junior
Anonymous
December 12, 2004 1:37:09 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"unclejr" <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote in message
news:1102803664.656628.267720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> Biz wrote:
> > If you're attempting to make a DVD from a LD, if the LD has AC3
> sound, you
> > would definitely want to use it instead of the stereo PCM
> soundtrack...
>
> The only problem is that you would have to capture the audio and video
> separately and then sync them later -- this can take HOURS of time.
> -Junior
>

You want to do it right the first time, or just as quickly as possible? If
I'm archiving one of my irreplaceable LDs(ie not available on DVD yet), a
few hours total for the whole project is nothing.
Anonymous
December 12, 2004 10:29:45 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

unclejr <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote:
:> If you're attempting to make a DVD from a LD, if the LD has AC3
: sound, you
:> would definitely want to use it instead of the stereo PCM
: soundtrack...

: The only problem is that you would have to capture the audio and video
: separately and then sync them later -- this can take HOURS of time.

If you are capturing from VHS using your TV Tuner card, technically you also
capture audio and video stream separately. Audio stream goes to your sound
card. Video stream goes to your TV Tuner card. If the quartz clock of these
cards mismatch, you have to sync your audio to your video anyway. That's in
theory. In practice I think it adds the speed of the VCR. Soundcard digitizes
the analog sound by sampling it at its own sampling rate. Capture card captures
the finite number of frames and digitizes them. If VCR is a bit faster or slower,
it won't affect how many frames are going to be captured, but it will affect
the speed of the audio. That's cause the catpure card doesn't sample frames, it
captures as they are. The same thing is going to happen when you run composite
from LD to your capture card and then demodulator to your sound card. Here
demodulator samples the sound. So you will have adjust it depending on
demodulator's quartz clock.

When you capture digital sound, you don't have to do anything. The digital
samples are already on the LaserDisc and the alignment of digital audio
samples and analog video frames relative to each other is going to be the
same on LD as on your computer after you capture your video and audio
(digitally) 'cause the audio is copied bit by bit and not sampled.

--Leonid
Anonymous
December 12, 2004 4:50:11 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Sat, 11 Dec 2004 22:37:09 GMT, Biz <biznospam@notatt.net> wrote:

>"unclejr" <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote in message
>news:1102803664.656628.267720@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>> Biz wrote:
>> > If you're attempting to make a DVD from a LD, if the LD has AC3
>> sound, you
>> > would definitely want to use it instead of the stereo PCM
>> soundtrack...
>>
>> The only problem is that you would have to capture the audio and video
>> separately and then sync them later -- this can take HOURS of time.
>> -Junior
>>

>You want to do it right the first time, or just as quickly as possible? If
>I'm archiving one of my irreplaceable LDs(ie not available on DVD yet), a
>few hours total for the whole project is nothing.


A few hours times 250 is a bigger deal. For now I'm just going to record the
video with stereo audio. The movies that have an AC3 soundtrack are all
available on DVD and I'd rather pay the $20 then spend 2-3 hours.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 11:09:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

If anyone has trouble finding this older card, there are a few left
here ~

http://www.computerhq.com/hardware/partinfo-id-88387.ht...


Leonid Makarovsky wrote:
> unclejr <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote:
> : Yes, it is possible and has been posted here and alt.dvd.authoring
ad
> : nauseam. Do a simple google groups search. Here's my solution...
>
> :
<http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&threadm=139de...;
>
> : DD 5.1. You will have to capture with the C-Media CMI 8738 sound
card
> : to get a bit for bit recording of AC-3 audio (from your RF
> : demodulator) onto your computer in PCM (48 kHz, 16-bit, stereo)
> : format. AFAIK, the CMI 8738 is the ONLY chip set that will allow
you
> : to capture the AC3 data without corrupting it. Once you purchase a
>
> Are you serious? So this $30 value card is the only one that will not
mess
> AC-3 up? Very hard to believe.
>
> --Leonid
Anonymous
December 17, 2004 3:35:55 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

TCS wrote:
> On 8 Dec 2004 02:21:31 GMT, Leonid Makarovsky <venom@cs.bu.edu> wrote:
>
>>Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>>: Are you just saying, or have you done it? Because I am quite sure you
>>: don't have to extract/demux/remux; LD AC-3 is already 48kHz. It's been
>>: a long time since I messed around with this, but I believe you have to
>>: record the original WAV at 48kHz, 16-bit stereo.
>
>
>>I don't know about LD AC-3 sampling rate. But LD digital audio is definitely
>>44.1kHz. So when I capture from LD, I always capture at 44.1kHz, and then
>>I resample with SSRC to 48kHz.
>
>
> You're confusing the LD's digital audio with the AC3. It's AC3 is 48khz.

Guess I was wrong, the AC-3 is indeed sampled at 48 KHz. I probably
confused it with LD DTS which is sampled at 44.1 KHz.

Martijn Bouterse
!