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Is Intel HD 4000 enough for gaming with a i7-3770K processor?

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December 4, 2012 3:54:25 PM

Hello.

I've recently been trying to find a new computer to buy because my old PC is on the verge of breaking down.
I've gotten a couple of offers from different computer stores in my town, and it's come to my attention that quite a few of them slap Intel's i5 and i7 processor together with what they describe as loosely as "GRAPHICS: HD 2500" or "HD 4000", so I've come to the conclusion that this is Intel's HD 4000.
Upon checking a couple of forums and benchmark sites, I got the impression that these graphics are quite... lackluster, so to say, if not even worse than my current graphics card ( Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT ).
Later, a friend of mine who happens to be a computer technician explained to me that, in layman's terms, the processor pretty much takes care of the graphics for the most part.
So, you can imagine that what's left is a giant mess of a confusion.
I'm not fanatic about having the ultimate gaming machine to the extent of spending over 700€ on a computer, but I would still like to run current and future games on higher settings without the picture going extremely laggy. You know, so I wouldn't have to drop the graphics settings of future games to LOW in order to even run them. I know it might sound rather silly when I'm talking about "future games" given the relative unpredictability of the industry, but you can probably guess what I'm trying to say.
Now that you've heard my explanation of my dilemma and wishful expectations, there's still the question that remains.
Is it enough for my gaming needs?
I would also greatly appreciate it if someone could explain the balance between processor and graphics that is befuddling me.

I would like to thank all of you in advance for the time invested in reading this and providing possible feedback.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 4, 2012 4:02:12 PM

Your friends knowledge seems lackluster. Intel HD 4000 will not play all latest games, and those which it will play, it will play on lowest settings only.

i7-3770k is also a silly buy for gaming. It costs way too much to justify the gains from it, and it's virtually not a single bit faster than i5-3570k, which is 100 euro cheaper.

If you are going to be playing games, it's even better to drop down to i3 CPU just so you could get a decent graphics card. It's the most important part in a gaming PC.

P. S. check how graphics card performance compares to CPU performance:

December 4, 2012 4:13:35 PM

Sunius said:
Your friends knowledge seems lackluster. Intel HD 4000 will not play all latest games, and those which it will play, it will play on lowest settings only.

i7-3770k is also a silly buy for gaming. It costs way too much to justify the gains from it, and it's virtually not a single bit faster than i5-3570k, which is 100 euro cheaper.

If you are going to be playing games, it's even better to drop down to i3 CPU just so you could get a decent graphics card. It's the most important part in a gaming PC.

P. S. check how graphics card performance compares to CPU performance:

Yeah, the first comment is pretty much what I heard on all the forums where I saw HD 4000 being mentioned.
Thank you for confirming my fears and also the additionally supplied information.
Would you then recommend that I just build my own PC considering the seemingly bad offers of local computer stores?
Related resources
December 4, 2012 4:26:37 PM

what resolution do you plan on gaming at? Im US so I don't know exact prices, but you can probably get buy with a 660 or 7850 which is 150ish usd after rebates and selling game keys.
December 4, 2012 4:28:20 PM

inherendo said:
what resolution do you plan on gaming at? Im US so I don't know exact prices, but you can probably get buy with a 660 or 7850 which is 150ish usd after rebates and selling game keys.

1920x1080.
December 4, 2012 4:32:00 PM

Most games these days are ported over from consoles, so it doesn't take much money to get a card that will play recent games on high and future games to play well either. Next gen consoles aren't a noticeable bump either, and I guess its safe to assume a mid tier card will play them quite nicely. Where in Europe are you located?

And yes a lot of prebuilts don't have dedicated or good enough to game with graphics cards. You can go to boutique sites, but there is obviously a premium in them building it vs doing it yourself. If you're up to the task, I say build it.
December 4, 2012 4:41:34 PM

inherendo said:
Most games these days are ported over from consoles, so it doesn't take much money to get a card that will play recent games on high and future games to play well either. Next gen consoles aren't a noticeable bump either, and I guess its safe to assume a mid tier card will play them quite nicely. Where in Europe are you located?

And yes a lot of prebuilts don't have dedicated or good enough to game with graphics cards. You can go to boutique sites, but there is obviously a premium in them building it vs doing it yourself. If you're up to the task, I say build it.

In Slovenia. We don't really have as many so-called boutiques here, in fact, I'd say I only know about one. I tried to have them build me a PC once and the price would've been way above my budget.
So ,yeah, I wouldn't really know about that here. I'd have to ask around.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 4, 2012 4:45:40 PM

Yes, I'd advice you building a PC. Tell us a budget in euros. I live in Europe myself, so I know the prices. I'll be able recommend you a full setup if I know how much you want to spend :) .
December 4, 2012 4:52:16 PM

Sunius said:
Yes, I'd advice you building a PC. Tell us a budget in euros. I live in Europe myself, so I know the prices. I'll be able recommend you a full setup if I know how much you want to spend :) .

I was thinking of spending somewhere between 500€ and 700€, though I'd go as high as 800€. Kind of trying to save money as I want to buy a digital drawing tablet as well.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 4, 2012 5:37:50 PM

Okay. I'll try targeting 700 euros range.

Processor: Try getting i5-3470, i5-3550, i5-3570 or i5-3570K (whichever is the cheapest at your local shop). ~180 Euros.
Motherboard: Cheapest B/Q/H/Z 75/77 motherboard of ATX form factor with 4 RAM slots - ~65 euros
RAM: Get a RAM kit of 2x4GB 1600 MHz CL9 - ~35 euros
Graphics card: According to your preference and price, get either HD 7850 2GB or GTX 660 2GB. Stick with XFX/Sapphire/Asus/Gigabyte/MSI. GTX 660 is a bit faster, but they are close in price. ~180 euros
Hard disk drive: Definitely get a 7200 RPM drive. 1 TB should be enough. Western Digital is considered a better company than others. ~70 euros
Power supply unit: Aim for good quality brands, I'd stick to these ONLY: Corsair/Antec/Seasonic/XFX. 430-500 watts is enough - ~45 euros
Case: Get a mid ATX case that looks nice and is of decent build quality. To find out whether it's decent, watch a youtube video or look for its review - ~50 euros
Operating system: Windows 7 Home Premium - ~85 euros

Total: ~710 euros.

I gave a rough estimate and rounded priced up a bit. You should fit the 700 euros mark. You should now check at your local shop and check which parts you can get and how much they cost. Report back your findings.
December 4, 2012 6:16:37 PM

Sunius said:
Okay. I'll try targeting 700 euros range.

Processor: Try getting i5-3470, i5-3550, i5-3570 or i5-3570K (whichever is the cheapest at your local shop). ~180 Euros.
Motherboard: Cheapest B/Q/H/Z 75/77 motherboard of ATX form factor with 4 RAM slots - ~65 euros
RAM: Get a RAM kit of 2x4GB 1600 MHz CL9 - ~35 euros
Graphics card: According to your preference and price, get either HD 7850 2GB or GTX 660 2GB. Stick with XFX/Sapphire/Asus/Gigabyte/MSI. GTX 660 is a bit faster, but they are close in price. ~180 euros
Hard disk drive: Definitely get a 7200 RPM drive. 1 TB should be enough. Western Digital is considered a better company than others. ~70 euros
Power supply unit: Aim for good quality brands, I'd stick to these ONLY: Corsair/Antec/Seasonic/XFX. 430-500 watts is enough - ~45 euros
Case: Get a mid ATX case that looks nice and is of decent build quality. To find out whether it's decent, watch a youtube video or look for its review - ~50 euros
Operating system: Windows 7 Home Premium - ~85 euros

Total: ~710 euros.

I gave a rough estimate and rounded priced up a bit. You should fit the 700 euros mark. You should now check at your local shop and check which parts you can get and how much they cost. Report back your findings.

Wow, thank you very much! I'll definitely be paying a visit to the store within this week, maybe even tomorrow. Once again, thank you for all the information and advice.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 4, 2012 6:25:28 PM

Remember to report back with your options!
December 6, 2012 2:40:24 PM

Sunius said:
Remember to report back with your options!

So, I decided to take a look at the prices at the shop today.
Processor: Turns out they have none of your recommended processors other than the 3570K - that one costs ~290€.
MB: The motherboards that I assumed fit your description cost around 50-80€, but at least there are plenty of options to choose from.
RAM: I only saw RAM kits of 2x2 GB, for 30€ each.
Graphics: Only saw GTX 660 2GB for Gigabyte and Asus. It costs around 300€.
HDD: They only have one model of a 7200 RPM drive, namely some 750GB drive by Seagate. Costs ~160€.
PSU: Only a couple of 430-550W ones to choose from, and those cost ~50€. As for brands, I only saw a 430W Corsair. Most of their PSU's seem to be Chieftec.
Case: They have a fair variety of cases around the 50€ mark.

So, yeah. It'd end up costing around 1000€.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 6, 2012 2:53:47 PM

WOW that's overpriced. Are you sure there aren't any online shops in your country? Those shops tend to have much lower prices.
December 6, 2012 3:08:48 PM

Sunius said:
WOW that's overpriced. Are you sure there aren't any online shops in your country? Those shops tend to have much lower prices.

I can only think of one, but even that one has prices that are higher than elsewhere. The same processor, for example, would cost 250€. The graphics card about 270€ ( note: Supposedly on sale down from 310€ ). The HDD around 100€. The rest is about the same price as the store I listed.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 6, 2012 7:30:24 PM

Okay. Drop down the CPU to i3-3220 or 3225. It should be half the price of the i5.

Get that 430 watt corsair PSU.

HDD from the online shop. And try fitting 8 GB of RAM in.

Does it bring the price to your budget?
December 6, 2012 8:13:32 PM

Sunius said:
Okay. Drop down the CPU to i3-3220 or 3225. It should be half the price of the i5.

Get that 430 watt corsair PSU.

HDD from the online shop. And try fitting 8 GB of RAM in.

Does it bring the price to your budget?

Eh, I don't think I should give them the satisfaction. I tend to be a cheapskate by nature and if I know that this is way overpriced compared to, say amazon.com, but it can't be delivered to my country, I'm still not going to give in. I'll keep an eye out for decent premanufactured computers, I mean they get new ones every other week... I'll see.
a c 358 U Graphics card
December 7, 2012 12:07:29 AM

PlayerDot said:
Hello.


Upon checking a couple of forums and benchmark sites, I got the impression that these graphics are quite... lackluster, so to say, if not even worse than my current graphics card ( Nvidia GeForce 9600 GT ).



If the Intel HD 4000 was as powerful as the GeForce 9600 Gt, then AMD and nVidia would be in real trouble in the value oriented (not budget) segment of the graphics card industry.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 7, 2012 4:44:51 AM

PlayerDot said:
Eh, I don't think I should give them the satisfaction. I tend to be a cheapskate by nature and if I know that this is way overpriced compared to, say amazon.com, but it can't be delivered to my country, I'm still not going to give in. I'll keep an eye out for decent premanufactured computers, I mean they get new ones every other week... I'll see.


What about www.amazon.co.uk? I know for sure that they deliver to whole europe except if your country has any laws that doesn't allow them to. I bought Kindle from it.

P.S. www.amazon.com is an american website, and the cheaper it's much cheaper there it's because they have no VAT, unlike us.
December 7, 2012 2:03:22 PM

Sunius said:
What about www.amazon.co.uk? I know for sure that they deliver to whole europe except if your country has any laws that doesn't allow them to. I bought Kindle from it.

P.S. www.amazon.com is an american website, and the cheaper it's much cheaper there it's because they have no VAT, unlike us.

Well, the prices seem to fall within my budget, it would total for around 800€. Though, I'm not sure about that, considering that I have never used amazon before, however I do believe that you need a sort of bank card for it, no?
Still, all the continuous failing when it comes to this has made the entire idea rather offputting, so I will leave it to sit for a while and think it all over.
On the bright side, not all pre-manufactured computers here are that shitty, though I think they would still cost more while performing worse than one with the parts you suggested to me.
I'll go inspect the new offers I had gotten more closely and then figure out what to do.

Thank you very much for all the help, even if I'll ultimately be led into purchasing a premanufactured computer. At least I've learned new things while visiting this forum, gathering information and browsing tutorials.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 7, 2012 2:28:31 PM

Okay. Should you need more help, don't hesitate to ask for it.
December 7, 2012 5:34:32 PM

I managed to come across some computers that don't seem to be so bad... at least to me. But they still shine over the others which just have an i7 processor and HD 4000 graphix.
There's three that caught my eye. I'm only going to list the CPU, RAM and GPU respectively, 'cause I believe that these make the biggest difference, the other parts are okay.
#1 ~600€
i5-3350P
8GB DDR3/1333MHz
nVidia GT630
#2 ~899€
i7-3770
8GB DDR3/1600MHz
AMD HD 7770 1GB DDR5
#3 ~699€
i5-2300
6GB DDR3/1333MHz
GTX 550 Ti
What do you think? I also live very close to the border, so I am contemplating making a trip to Austria and visit Mediamarkt after checking their online offers. If anything, practically everything is cheaper there.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 7, 2012 6:08:56 PM

The third option is kind of the best for your money, but to be honest you'd be throwing your money away if you bought it. GTX 550 Ti is a weak card, and I don't think there's a reason to get it unless your whole PC costs 400 euros. And that PC costs twice as much.
December 13, 2012 1:58:35 PM

Sunius said:
The third option is kind of the best for your money, but to be honest you'd be throwing your money away if you bought it. GTX 550 Ti is a weak card, and I don't think there's a reason to get it unless your whole PC costs 400 euros. And that PC costs twice as much.

I know right? I don't even know how this happened... and it only seems to be like this in my country - in Austria it's cheaper, that's for sure.
It's almost like we have 100% taxes on computers or something... which is strange, considering that when I last purchased a computer ( about 4 years ago ) the store price more closely resembled the combined value of all the parts.
Oh well, I will still be on the look out... but it looks like I won't be able to find anything worthwhile yet. Thanks for the feedback.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 2:50:02 PM

No problem :) . Don't forget to report how it goes.
December 14, 2012 11:59:38 AM

Sunius said:
No problem :) . Don't forget to report how it goes.

Meanwhile in Austria, I found 4 computers that fit into my budget/price range. I added one extra, because it seems better than the 899€ one I found in Slovenia.
#1 - 519€
i5-3550
4GB RAM DDR3 ( 1x 4GB )
Nvidia GeForce GT 210
* - Comes with Windows 8 and other programs.
#2 - 619€
i5-3470
2x 4GB RAM DDR 3
Nvidia GeForce GT 620
** - Comes with W7 and other programs.
#3 - 699€
i7-2600
1x4 GB RAM DDR 3
Nvidia GeForce GT 545
**
#4 - 699€
i7-3770
1x4 GB RAM
Radeon HD 7450
**
#5 - 899€
i7-3770
2x4 GB RAM DDR3
Nvidia GeForce GTX 650 Ti
*
Overall, it seems that the PC's they have to offer in Austria are more "cost-effective" than those they offer here.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 3:00:26 PM

Not really, the graphics card in all of them are very weak :|. That's the issue with prebuilts. They never put a proper graphics card in.
December 14, 2012 4:54:29 PM

Welp, how about I just get one with a good processor and a decent graphics card, and then replace the graphics card in 2 years ( after the guarantee wears off ) if it isn't good enough.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 5:01:59 PM

Would be waste of your money, I think. Even with your overpriced part prices, you could build a MUCH better machine than all the prebuilt ones.
December 14, 2012 5:25:19 PM

Calculated prices for the computer I first intended to build, it would cost 1060€.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 5:27:51 PM

Would it? I thought he made some compromises. You definitely said that it fell inside your budget.

Processor: i3, should be no more expensive than 150 euros, if i5-3570k costs 290.
MB: You said there were motherboards for 50 euros
RAM: 8GB for 60 euros
Graphics: GTX 660 - 270 euros
HDD: 100 euros
PSU: Corsair unit - 50 euros
Case: 50 euros
Windows: 100 euros

Comes to 830 euros.
December 14, 2012 5:52:04 PM

Whoops, I still used the old (i5-3570K)processor. That kind of explains the spike in price.

Checked the prices again.
i3-3220 ~ 140€, i3-3225 ~ 150€
2x 4GB Corsair RAM ~ 50€
GTX 660 ( for ASUS ) ~ 290€
Western Digital HDD w/ 7200RPM ~ 100€
Corsair PSU: 430W ~50€; 500W ~100€.
MB ~ 50-80€
Case ~ 30-50€

~720€ in the best case scenario, ~800€ in the worst case; without the operating system included. I suppose you're right. Not sure how come the prices were so high before.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 5:54:18 PM

Glad you figured it out :) . You definitely don't need a 500 watt power supply unit.
December 14, 2012 6:05:15 PM

Do you think the processor will be enough to make the computer last a while?
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:13:49 PM

At least 4 years.
December 14, 2012 6:27:47 PM

Sunius said:
At least 4 years.

Good. I noticed we also left out an optical disc drive. But then again, I can simply pillage that out of one of my old computers.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 8:51:10 PM

Do you actually need one? I personally think that it's a good place to save money on. I personally haven't used one for at least a year: everything comes from either USB flash drives or the internet.
December 15, 2012 5:27:07 PM

Sunius said:
Do you actually need one? I personally think that it's a good place to save money on. I personally haven't used one for at least a year: everything comes from either USB flash drives or the internet.

Actually - no. I was just fixated on the method of installing the OS via a CD/DVD rather than a USB flash drive.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 15, 2012 8:38:24 PM

There you go :) .
December 15, 2012 10:31:25 PM

Also, have a look on Amazon.de
I currently live in the Netherlands and they have free shipping to here and nearly comparable prices to Amazon.com. Another solution that you could look at is ordering from the US. I used to live in Malaysia and then Singapore and recently Dubai and I always ordered from the US. There is a company (myus.com) and you sign up with them and they give you an address in Florida where you can directly ship you items. Then after all your items arrive to this address, they pack it and ship it all to you. I ordered my i7-3770K, gtx 670, 16gb ram, mobo and everything else this way...
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 16, 2012 9:30:29 AM

^

Keep in mind, however, that by doing this you lose your warranty.
December 19, 2012 3:24:46 PM

Sunius said:
There you go :) .

Alright, sorry, I have been busy all week and was not able to buy and parts or even inspect the shop again - however, tomorrow I will most likely go ahead and purchase the parts.
Now, I have written a summary, but that makes me wonder - do I need any fans? 'Cause normally I would start getting problems with my computer overheating. And as far as I have seen in the videos, people put a fan onto the processor... so, bluh. I would not know. The product descriptions on our websites are so poorly written, it is difficult to find out the details of the product, let alone the contents of the box other than the obvious.
<noob>
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 19, 2012 3:33:15 PM

The fan for the CPU is included with the CPU itself. You don't need any extra fans. The majority of overheating problems come from dust, bad placement of the CPU fan or messy wiring.
December 20, 2012 2:49:10 PM

Sunius said:
The fan for the CPU is included with the CPU itself. You don't need any extra fans. The majority of overheating problems come from dust, bad placement of the CPU fan or messy wiring.

I just returned from the store. However, they could not provide me with much service as they were having an inventory check or whatever the proper English term for it is.
Anyway, turns out that the fee for assembling a computer is around 20€, and they will cover the guarantee for 2 years if you do - otherwise, supposedly, it should last only a year for each component.
However - I have come to a slightly unpleasant discovery. Due to the lack of information and also my personal laziness, I simply took a small MB with no GPU slot and only 2 RAM slots. However, now that I have switched to an appropriate one, the price went up by 60€. I believe that it is still within respectable limits.
If you are interested, here at the components. Hopefully everything is in check... but I doubt it is very helpful, 'cause the site is in Slovene.

I am still undecided on the case - they have only a few on supply, and those are pretty much the only ones with supplied information and pictures.
Most of the cases they have, come with a PSU. Since we already included a PSU, I am deciding between two that have none.

Should be a total of ~800€. What do you think?
I need to make sure I haven't screwed anything up before ordering.
a c 291 U Graphics card
December 20, 2012 3:54:28 PM

Everything looks nice. Especially the deal on the power supply unit!

The first case looks ugly. I'd take the second one - but that's my personal taste. It's going to stand in your room after all :) .

P. S. How come you never gave me that website? :p 
January 9, 2013 1:53:25 PM

Sunius said:
Everything looks nice. Especially the deal on the power supply unit!

The first case looks ugly. I'd take the second one - but that's my personal taste. It's going to stand in your room after all :) .

P. S. How come you never gave me that website? :p 

I am sorry for not providing the link sooner, as well as not responding earlier. I had spent all this time waiting for my PC to arrive, but with all the delays I only got it yesterday, which explains the long time required to reply.
So far I am very satisfied with the performance of this new PC - all games I own seem to be able to run lag-free on the highest settings.
In that regard, I am certain that it will serve me well for the years to come.

Thank you very much for all the suggestions and feedback you (Sunius and the other posters) supplied me with.
!