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CAV better than CLV?

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Anonymous
December 13, 2004 2:43:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Hi guys - I know that CAV gives better freeze frame and search than CLV, but
does it also give an appreciably better picture too? Want to know whether
it's worth getting hold of the Star Wars Definitive Box Set over my standard
CLV discs (they're the newer ones from the same THX master).

Thanks,

James


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More about : cav clv

Anonymous
December 13, 2004 8:36:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

It all depends on the quality of the disc manufacturer, but in general, yes
it looks better. Slightly less video noise.

Keep in mind that the most well-produced CLV disc will look better than an
averagely produced CAV disc.

-Mike
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 3:01:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Since CAV records one frame per revolution crosstalk is not as big of an
issue as the frame before and after have much of the same data. This is the
big advantage of CAV LD's.

Now once the LD player is properly aligned the crosstalk is very small
amounts or cannot be seen and CLV LD's also look very good.

Small amounts of crosstalk actually increase overall video noise. This is
the reason years ago I decided to teach myself how to tweak players to
minimize crosstalk.

Kurtis

"James Taylor" <taylor.jams@ntlworld.com> wrote in message
news:0gfvd.856$UP6.843@newsfe4-gui.ntli.net...
> Hi guys - I know that CAV gives better freeze frame and search than CLV,
> but
> does it also give an appreciably better picture too? Want to know whether
> it's worth getting hold of the Star Wars Definitive Box Set over my
> standard
> CLV discs (they're the newer ones from the same THX master).
>
> Thanks,
>
> James
>
>
> ---
> Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
> Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
> Version: 6.0.809 / Virus Database: 551 - Release Date: 09/12/2004
>
>
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Anonymous
December 14, 2004 6:27:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 13 Dec 2004 11:43:56 GMT, "James Taylor"
<taylor.jams@ntlworld.com> wrote:

>Hi guys - I know that CAV gives better freeze frame and search than CLV, but
>does it also give an appreciably better picture too? Want to know whether
>it's worth getting hold of the Star Wars Definitive Box Set over my standard
>CLV discs (they're the newer ones from the same THX master).

If you buy a Definitive Collection box set, it could be missing a few
seconds of Leia welding (near the beginning of Empire, side 2, I
think?). The CLV "Faces" edition for sure has that few seconds.

In my opinion, I'm not sure I'd bother with the DC. If you're planning
to transfer your LDs to DVD, however, and are set on buying
*something*, then buy two more "Faces" sets and take advantage of
AviSynth for eliminating any sort of rot.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 9:35:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:p Jednb4I5aYQ7iPcRVn-sg@comcast.com...
> Since CAV records one frame per revolution crosstalk is not as big of an
> issue as the frame before and after have much of the same data. This is
the
> big advantage of CAV LD's.
>
> Now once the LD player is properly aligned the crosstalk is very small
> amounts or cannot be seen and CLV LD's also look very good.
>
> Small amounts of crosstalk actually increase overall video noise. This is
> the reason years ago I decided to teach myself how to tweak players to
> minimize crosstalk.
>
> Kurtis


How about ditching the term "tweak"? In the hundreds of service manuals I
have (and years of training) I've never heard "tweak". What you are
referring to is an alignment. Nowhere in the service manual does it state
"tweaking instructions". It states alignment instructions. To adjust for
crosstalk isn't a tweak, it's what every entry level tech was taught as
alignment. No mystery, no secret, just factory specified alignments.
Please, for the sake of people seeking advice, drop "tweak" and use the
professional terminology.
Anonymous
December 14, 2004 11:00:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

> How about ditching the term "tweak"? In the hundreds of service manuals I
> have (and years of training) I've never heard "tweak". What you are
> referring to is an alignment. Nowhere in the service manual does it state
> "tweaking instructions". It states alignment instructions. To adjust for
> crosstalk isn't a tweak, it's what every entry level tech was taught as
> alignment. No mystery, no secret, just factory specified alignments.
> Please, for the sake of people seeking advice, drop "tweak" and use the
> professional terminology.
>
>


Dude, get a life.
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 7:58:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"C.B. Evans" <evanschris@ZZZZcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:bqmdnXdGUOg8ESLcRVn-iw@comcast.com...
>
>
> > How about ditching the term "tweak"? In the hundreds of service manuals
I
> > have (and years of training) I've never heard "tweak". What you are
> > referring to is an alignment. Nowhere in the service manual does it
state
> > "tweaking instructions". It states alignment instructions. To adjust
for
> > crosstalk isn't a tweak, it's what every entry level tech was taught as
> > alignment. No mystery, no secret, just factory specified alignments.
> > Please, for the sake of people seeking advice, drop "tweak" and use the
> > professional terminology.
> >
>
> Dude, get a life.


The gentleman who posted that is arguably the top LD serviceman in the US.
And one of the most courteous, so don't expect him to flame back at you.

You would be well advised to read his post again, and think about what he
actually said.

I agree with him, unconditionally. "Tweak" has NO communicative value at
all.

"I replaced the capacitors" or "I upgraded the DACs to Burr-Browns"
tells you something.

"I tweaked it" tells you nothing, and some of us want to know the
specifics.
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 9:47:01 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:58:57 GMT, "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote:

>"I tweaked it" tells you nothing, and some of us want to know the
>specifics.

To be completely pedantic, "I tweaked it" tells you almost exactly the
same amount as "I aligned it", if (like most people) you're unaware of
what precisely needs to be tweaked. I'd also argue the term "to tweak"
connotes optimization of some parameter that may already be merely
acceptable, but not perfect. For example, since players must obviously
come aligned (to some extent or another) at the factory -- else they
wouldn't play at all, I'd imagine -- why would they need aligning?
They're aligned already. What they really need is for the alignment to
be tweaked to maximize performance (in this case, to minimize
crosstalk). I don't think a tweak is the distance between something
not working and something working; it's the distance between something
working, and something working optimally. I don't see anything wrong
with the use of "tweak" to describe this sort of optimization process.

This is generally an informal discussion group; it's certainly not
solely a technical group. If I (or anyone else) wants to know exactly
what to tweak to get rid of crosstalk, I can either a) ask what
exactly needs to be tweaked; or b) go find the appropriate service
manual (or service person) that can explain and/or perform the
appropriate tweak. Kurtis would be a good place to start in both
instances.

I don't care who says otherwise; as a long-time poster with experience
tweaking players for dozens of people and as someone who's always
willing to explain what's being tweaked, I think Kurtis has earned the
right to use the term "tweak" exactly how he has.

P.S. What an absurd topic of discussion. There's five minutes I'll
never have back...
December 15, 2004 12:22:26 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 06:47:01 GMT, Karyudo
<karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:

> I don't think a tweak is the distance between something
>not working and something working; it's the distance between something
>working, and something working optimally.

Thanks, this answer clears up a lot of childhood issues for me. Now
I know why my grandmother was always tweaking my ears. She
was trying to optimize their performance. : )
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 3:52:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Karyudo" <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote in message
news:D hmvr0t3efd7etj315coqrm0d77no3dn8d@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 04:58:57 GMT, "Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote:
>
>>"I tweaked it" tells you nothing, and some of us want to know the
>>specifics.
>
> To be completely pedantic, "I tweaked it" tells you almost exactly the
> same amount as "I aligned it", if (like most people) you're unaware of
> what precisely needs to be tweaked. I'd also argue the term "to tweak"
> connotes optimization of some parameter that may already be merely
> acceptable, but not perfect. For example, since players must obviously
> come aligned (to some extent or another) at the factory -- else they
> wouldn't play at all, I'd imagine -- why would they need aligning?
> They're aligned already. What they really need is for the alignment to
> be tweaked to maximize performance (in this case, to minimize
> crosstalk). I don't think a tweak is the distance between something
> not working and something working; it's the distance between something
> working, and something working optimally. I don't see anything wrong
> with the use of "tweak" to describe this sort of optimization process.
>
> This is generally an informal discussion group; it's certainly not
> solely a technical group. If I (or anyone else) wants to know exactly
> what to tweak to get rid of crosstalk, I can either a) ask what
> exactly needs to be tweaked; or b) go find the appropriate service
> manual (or service person) that can explain and/or perform the
> appropriate tweak. Kurtis would be a good place to start in both
> instances.
>
> I don't care who says otherwise; as a long-time poster with experience
> tweaking players for dozens of people and as someone who's always
> willing to explain what's being tweaked, I think Kurtis has earned the
> right to use the term "tweak" exactly how he has.
>
> P.S. What an absurd topic of discussion. There's five minutes I'll
> never have back...





That was my point exactly. I have been lurking here for a long time. I
don't know Kurtis from Adam. I trust Kurtis' opinions after trying alot of
his methods myself. But I do know if he wants to use the word "tweak"
instead of "align" then no one should complain or whine about that.

I dont care if Mr. ldservice invented the LD. He and a few other tightwads
here need to lighten up.
Anonymous
December 15, 2004 6:39:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 09:22:26 -0600, Ripley <ripley@via.negativa>
wrote:

>On Wed, 15 Dec 2004 06:47:01 GMT, Karyudo
><karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>
>> I don't think a tweak is the distance between something
>>not working and something working; it's the distance between something
>>working, and something working optimally.
>
>Thanks, this answer clears up a lot of childhood issues for me. Now
>I know why my grandmother was always tweaking my ears. She
>was trying to optimize their performance. : )

Ah, the English language. So full of completely-unrelated meanings for
the same words.

Either that or grandma was settin' you up for some future time when
home theatre would be all the rage.

(Another few minutes gone that I can't get back...)
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 12:20:33 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Just ask me what I mean, I don't mind.

I have adjusted players to the service manual specs using the Pioneer test
LD's. When I play movies that are on the edge of LD pressing specs I see
crosstalk. I then readjust (Which I call tweak) the alignments to further
reduce crosstalk.

Now if I could ever find a perfectly pressed test LD then I would probably
not have to readjust but every LD is a little different.

So I could use personal readjustment additional the service manual procedure
but I call that a tweak as its faster to type and I am tweaking the
adjustment points the test LD had me set the adjustments to.

Kurtis

"ldservice" <service@nospam.laserdiscservice.com> wrote in message
news:7Rvvd.123101$7i4.78868@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "Kurtis Bahr" <kbahr@comcast.net> wrote in message
> news:p Jednb4I5aYQ7iPcRVn-sg@comcast.com...
>> Since CAV records one frame per revolution crosstalk is not as big of an
>> issue as the frame before and after have much of the same data. This is
> the
>> big advantage of CAV LD's.
>>
>> Now once the LD player is properly aligned the crosstalk is very small
>> amounts or cannot be seen and CLV LD's also look very good.
>>
>> Small amounts of crosstalk actually increase overall video noise. This
>> is
>> the reason years ago I decided to teach myself how to tweak players to
>> minimize crosstalk.
>>
>> Kurtis
>
>
> How about ditching the term "tweak"? In the hundreds of service manuals I
> have (and years of training) I've never heard "tweak". What you are
> referring to is an alignment. Nowhere in the service manual does it state
> "tweaking instructions". It states alignment instructions. To adjust for
> crosstalk isn't a tweak, it's what every entry level tech was taught as
> alignment. No mystery, no secret, just factory specified alignments.
> Please, for the sake of people seeking advice, drop "tweak" and use the
> professional terminology.
>
>
Anonymous
December 16, 2004 12:25:25 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I respect "ldservice" and their knowledge. I would say they do have more
depth in knowledge of LD theory than I do, but we both can fix them. I'm
sure they understand that all factory adjustments do not mean something is
adjusted to the optimum point.

Kurtis

"Hugh Candlin" <no@spam.com> wrote in message
news:lwPvd.126391$7i4.37603@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>
> "C.B. Evans" <evanschris@ZZZZcomcast.net> wrote in message
> news:bqmdnXdGUOg8ESLcRVn-iw@comcast.com...
>>
>>
>> > How about ditching the term "tweak"? In the hundreds of service manuals
> I
>> > have (and years of training) I've never heard "tweak". What you are
>> > referring to is an alignment. Nowhere in the service manual does it
> state
>> > "tweaking instructions". It states alignment instructions. To adjust
> for
>> > crosstalk isn't a tweak, it's what every entry level tech was taught as
>> > alignment. No mystery, no secret, just factory specified alignments.
>> > Please, for the sake of people seeking advice, drop "tweak" and use the
>> > professional terminology.
>> >
>>
>> Dude, get a life.
>
>
> The gentleman who posted that is arguably the top LD serviceman in the US.
> And one of the most courteous, so don't expect him to flame back at you.
>
> You would be well advised to read his post again, and think about what he
> actually said.
>
> I agree with him, unconditionally. "Tweak" has NO communicative value at
> all.
>
> "I replaced the capacitors" or "I upgraded the DACs to Burr-Browns"
> tells you something.
>
> "I tweaked it" tells you nothing, and some of us want to know the
> specifics.
>
>
!