Slow, buggy system

[techSultan]

Update:The old HDD was causing all the trouble. I installed the Kingston SSD I talked about earlier, and my system is perfectly normal now (plus it's REALLY fast!). Thanks for the help!

Hello all. Three weeks ago, I assembled a PC for word processing, web surfing, and casual home use. I've been trying to fix the build since then. I would REALLY appreciate some guidance!

Specs:
MSI FM2-A75MA-E35 FM2
AMD A6 5400k APU
Patriot 4GB 1333Mhz DDR3 RAM
80GB SATA Maxtor 6L080 HDD (I salvaged this from our 2005 Dell desktop)
420W PSU
Windows 7 Home Premium 64Bit

Problems:
-I'll open windows explorer and then quickly click the start menu--the PC freezes, 5-10 seconds later, start menu opens.
-I'll switch from one browser tab to another--the PC freezes, 5-10 seconds later, tab switches.
-I'll Switch from one window to another window--the PC freezes, 5-10 seconds later, new window opens.
-Overall, it's just a slow and buggy system.

History of what I've done thus far (in chronological order):
-Assembled components
-Installed Windows
-Install all drivers on MSI disk, windows failed to load
-Contacted MSI, they told me to update BIOS on a clean Windows
-Reinstalled Windows, Updated BIOS, installed all drivers, windows failed to load
-Contacted MSI, they said I had a defective Mobo
-Exchanged Mobo at electronics store
-Transplanted components from old Mobo to new Mobo
-Installed new Mobo
-Installed fresh copy of Windows, tried to install all drivers, Windows failed to load
-Reinstalled Windows, installed drivers one by one
-Isolated SATA Controller driver as the one that kept bringing down my system
-Reinstalled Windows, install all drivers except SATA controller
-Ran HD Tune Pro, discovered that my "Ultra dma crc error count" is "bad" (9 errors)
-Connected HDD to MoBo with another SATA cable, no dice

At this point I simply don't know what to do.
I know from my CISCO class that my CRC error means that the data on my HDD is not reaching my MoBo without error. Should I buy a new hard drive--especially considering the one I've installed is 8 years old?
However, I'm also afraid that I may have put too little thermal paste on my APU when I switched out the motherboards. Could that be causing an issue?

I would appreciate any and all information. Thanks!

PS: Why does the SATA controller screw with my windows? Does it have anything to do with SATA modes? I learned from multiple google searches that I'm not supposed to change SATA modes after Windows installation--then why did the chipset driver installer tell me to install the SATA controller driver?

 

[pat]

maybe you 420W psu is not up to the task. What brand and how old is it?

 

[geofelt]

I think you should replace the hard drive.
If a hard drive detects an error, it will go through retry cycles, taking much longer to deliver the data.

And... replace it with a SSD. A 120gb Intel or Samsung SSD should cost <$100.
You will be amazed with the difference.
If the SATA mode is AHCI, then go ahead and reinstall windows on the SSD.
If the SATA mode is IDE or Raid, then you should change it to AHCI so that you will get windows "trim" support.

 

[techSultan]

maybe you 420W psu is not up to the task. What brand and how old is it?

I honestly don't know. The PSU was included with the Cooler Master Elite 311 case I bought from Fry's. The box appears to be from 2011. Problem?

The "detailed" Fry's webpage didn't provide me with any specifics:
http://www.frys.com/product/6894616#detailed

And the Cooler Master webpage for the case doesn't have any info on included PSUs:
http://www.coolermaster-usa.com/product.php?product_id=3065

 

[techSultan]

I think you should replace the hard drive.
If a hard drive detects an error, it will go through retry cycles, taking much longer to deliver the data.

And... replace it with a SSD. A 120gb Intel or Samsung SSD should cost <$100.
You will be amazed with the difference.
If the SATA mode is AHCI, then go ahead and reinstall windows on the SSD.
If the SATA mode is IDE or Raid, then you should change it to AHCI so that you will get windows "trim" support.

That's what I thought, but the driver problems I've had with this build have really brought my confidence down, so I'm afraid to ask my dad for another $110 for an SSD.
I was looking at this SSD.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239045

Although I don't have a spare HDD lying around, should I try to find one to test if the problem really lies with my old HDD?

 

[geofelt]

That's what I thought, but the driver problems I've had with this build have really brought my confidence down, so I'm afraid to ask my dad for another $110 for an SSD.
I was looking at this SSD.
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820239045

Although I don't have a spare HDD lying around, should I try to find one to test if the problem really lies with my old HDD?

I normally suggest Intel or samsung SSD, but that kingston unit looks good too.

If you can borrow a known good hard drive, such a test might be a good idea.

 

[pat]

On the case page, from fry's, it list a 400W PSU. If is is a cheap unit, then it may have problem powering this computer. I've seen good quality 350W getting better result than cheap 450W. To be honest, I would first try another PSU.

If the 12v rail is too weak, the HDD will be unreliable. If the system voltage fluctue too much, you will get loads of memory errors. You may try to give a little more voltage to the RAM in BIOS, to see if it stabilize the RAM. You can check for RAM error in the ressource monitor.. I think you will find it if you right click the 'my computer" icon and select manage. I'm not with windows 7 right now, so I cannot confirm for sure. Maybe someone else may give you more specific direction, or google can.

In there, it is normal to see some errprs, as they are corrected on the fly. But too many of them will make the system freeze while it tries to correct them. This can cause the freezing you have.

As for the SATA, you should not have any problem installing drivers if needed for AHCI or RAID if you have a stable computer. I've build few APU machines, I'm always using 500W minimum from quality PSU brand (antec, seasonic,..) and never got a problem, apart for some that has 8 gigs of RAM and needed a bit more voltage for the DDR3 modules to stabilize with some flaky BIOS (first release of Gigabyte BIOS especially)

 

[techSultan]

On the case page, from fry's, it list a 400W PSU. If is is a cheap unit, then it may have problem powering this computer. I've seen good quality 350W getting better result than cheap 450W. To be honest, I would first try another PSU.

If the 12v rail is too weak, the HDD will be unreliable. If the system voltage fluctue too much, you will get loads of memory errors. You may try to give a little more voltage to the RAM in BIOS, to see if it stabilize the RAM. You can check for RAM error in the ressource monitor.. I think you will find it if you right click the 'my computer" icon and select manage. I'm not with windows 7 right now, so I cannot confirm for sure. Maybe someone else may give you more specific direction, or google can.

In there, it is normal to see some errprs, as they are corrected on the fly. But too many of them will make the system freeze while it tries to correct them. This can cause the freezing you have.

As for the SATA, you should not have any problem installing drivers if needed for AHCI or RAID if you have a stable computer. I've build few APU machines, I'm always using 500W minimum from quality PSU brand (antec, seasonic,..) and never got a problem, apart for some that has 8 gigs of RAM and needed a bit more voltage for the DDR3 modules to stabilize with some flaky BIOS (first release of Gigabyte BIOS especially)

Whoops. I just ordered an SSD from Newegg. I wouldn't be surprised if it's the PSU...especially since I got the case+psu for $35 (I think). I don't know why I didn't think of that earlier.

I'll update this as soon as my SSD arrives and I reinstall windows on that. Thanks for the info pat, I'll know where to go if I still have the freezing problem.

EDIT: The case+PSU combo was $70-80. I don't know why I put $35.

 

[Outlander_04]

I think you should flash the BIOS from a USB stick

 

[techSultan]

I think you should flash the BIOS from a USB stick

I plan on doing that before I install the SSD.

 

[geofelt]

I plan on doing that before I install the SSD.

I would NOT flash a bios unless it included a fix that was related to a problem you are having.
A failed flash can render the part useless.
Read the info on what the bios update fixes.

 

[Outlander_04]

I would NOT flash a bios unless it included a fix that was related to a problem you are having.
A failed flash can render the part useless.
Read the info on what the bios update fixes.

Until recently I would have agreed with you completely . I remember the trauma of trying to run BIOS updates from floppy disks .

But twice recently i have seen UEFI BIOS updates fix buggy and slow computers . I suspect the UEFI layer rather than the BIOS itself, but it did work

Your post made me re-read the OP's original post again though , and the ancient hard drive has to be a strong suspect too . Perhaps replacing that , and if that doesnt work then flashing the BIOS .
The Samsung 830 includes a copy of Norton Ghost so cloning the existing installation of windows is an option

 

[techSultan]

I would NOT flash a bios unless it included a fix that was related to a problem you are having.
A failed flash can render the part useless.
Read the info on what the bios update fixes.

I had to flash the old MoBo. The UEFI BIOS on this MSI series is buggy (saving to exit completely freezes the BIOS), so I'll have to do it sooner or later. Furthermore, the MSI support forum has this really easy to use BIOS updater that does most of the scary stuff by itself.

http://forum-en.msi.com/index.php?topic=119375.0

Thanks for the heads up though!

 

[techSultan]

Until recently I would have agreed with you completely . I remember the trauma of trying to run BIOS updates from floppy disks .

But twice recently i have seen UEFI BIOS updates fix buggy and slow computers . I suspect the UEFI layer rather than the BIOS itself, but it did work

Your post made me re-read the OP's original post again though , and the ancient hard drive has to be a strong suspect too . Perhaps replacing that , and if that doesnt work then flashing the BIOS .
The Samsung 830 includes a copy of Norton Ghost so cloning the existing installation of windows is an option

Would you recommend cloning? I was just going to go with a clean install...

 

[geofelt]

Would you recommend cloning? I was just going to go with a clean install...

I have tried to find Ghost from samsung to do a clone.
It is a PITA to find it, and I don't know how solid a Ghost clone is.

I have useed the Intel clone utility which is a modified Acronis clone, and it has worked well several times.

If a clean install is not too burdensome, then I would go that way.
It turns out that a windows install and all the updates goes very quickly with a SSD.

 

[techSultan]

I have tried to find Ghost from samsung to do a clone.
It is a PITA to find it, and I don't know how solid a Ghost clone is.

I have useed the Intel clone utility which is a modified Acronis clone, and it has worked well several times.

If a clean install is not too burdensome, then I would go that way.
It turns out that a windows install and all the updates goes very quickly with a SSD.

Then I'll just do a clean install. I only have to install windows & drivers anyways.

 

[techSultan]

Update: Hey guys, the old HDD was causing all the trouble. I installed the Kingston SSD I talked about earlier, and my system is perfectly normal now (plus it's REALLY fast!). Thanks for the help!

 

[techSultan]

Best answer selected by techSultan.