Sign in with
Sign up | Sign in
Your question

Hi-Definition laserdiscs

Last response: in Home Theatre Legacy
Share
Anonymous
January 7, 2005 8:25:13 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I heard about the japanese HiVision(or something like that) discs and was
wondering what's known about them? I know they're 1125 lines of res.

Also, I have a japanese import laserdisc on the way to me in the mail
right now. It's Genesis Invisible Touch tour from 1987 and it says on the
cover "SONY HI-DEF" this doesn't have anything to do with HiVision does
it? Does it just mean they mastered it well?

-Mike

More about : definition laserdiscs

Anonymous
January 7, 2005 5:46:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

half_eaten wrote:
>
> I heard about the japanese HiVision(or something like that) discs and was
> wondering what's known about them? I know they're 1125 lines of res.
>
> Also, I have a japanese import laserdisc on the way to me in the mail
> right now. It's Genesis Invisible Touch tour from 1987 and it says on the
> cover "SONY HI-DEF" this doesn't have anything to do with HiVision does
> it? Does it just mean they mastered it well?
>
> -Mike
If it is a Hi-Def disc, I doubt if it will play in your standard LD
machine. More than likely, it was mastered from a Hi-Def source into
standard NTSC video.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 2:33:39 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>I heard about the japanese HiVision(or something like that) discs and was
>wondering what's known about them?

HiVision, also called "Muse" discs were essentially standard discs containing
compressed High Def material. There was a small selection of movies avaliable
on the format, as well as a small catalog of "special interest" films. The
discs require a MUSE capable player, such as Pioneer's HLD-X0 or HLD-X9 as well
as a special decoder and an HDTV. Obviously, an RF demodulator is neccesary if
you're interested in AC-3 soundtracks, but not otherwise. Here is a list of
MUSE titles:
http://japanld.free.fr/search.php?adv_search=&adv_refer...
&video=3

> It's Genesis Invisible Touch tour from 1987 and it says on the
>cover "SONY HI-DEF" this doesn't have anything to do with HiVision does
>it?

According to the database, the concert was filmed using 1125 line Sony Hi-Def
cameras, but it's a standard NTSC disc in widescreen. So no, it's no a HiVision
disc, and your current player can handle it. If the transfer was any good, the
video quality should be great. Here's the disc:
http://japanld.free.fr/laserdisc.php?id=25322
Steve Grauman
Related resources
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 3:42:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I've never seen a HiVision LD with a separate AC-3 soundtrack. HiVision has
its own multi-channel Audio encoding that is decoded in the MUSE decoder.
Since I cannot read Japanese I cannot give the details from my owners manual
for my decoder.

Kurtis

"Steve Grauman" <oneactor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20050107183339.07662.00002761@mb-m01.aol.com...
> >I heard about the japanese HiVision(or something like that) discs and was
>>wondering what's known about them?
>
> HiVision, also called "Muse" discs were essentially standard discs
> containing
> compressed High Def material. There was a small selection of movies
> avaliable
> on the format, as well as a small catalog of "special interest" films. The
> discs require a MUSE capable player, such as Pioneer's HLD-X0 or HLD-X9 as
> well
> as a special decoder and an HDTV. Obviously, an RF demodulator is
> neccesary if
> you're interested in AC-3 soundtracks, but not otherwise. Here is a list
> of
> MUSE titles:
> http://japanld.free.fr/search.php?adv_search=&adv_refer...
> &video=3
>
>> It's Genesis Invisible Touch tour from 1987 and it says on the
>>cover "SONY HI-DEF" this doesn't have anything to do with HiVision does
>>it?
>
> According to the database, the concert was filmed using 1125 line Sony
> Hi-Def
> cameras, but it's a standard NTSC disc in widescreen. So no, it's no a
> HiVision
> disc, and your current player can handle it. If the transfer was any good,
> the
> video quality should be great. Here's the disc:
> http://japanld.free.fr/laserdisc.php?id=25322
> Steve Grauman
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 4:06:59 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Hello,

Hi-Vision LDs (through a decoder) can be watched on a 1080i compatible
display.

Rgds,
Julien
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 5:22:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

You have a HiVision player? I didn't think that would be able to work on an
american HDTV. The only modes they support are 480i/p, 720p and 1080i.
Anonymous
January 8, 2005 10:55:53 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

1. Sound

Hi-Vision pre-dates Dolby Digital. At best it has discreet Dolby
Surround (ie, 4 separate channels: front left, front center, front
right, rear).

2. "Hi-Def" NTSC LDs

These were converted from Hi-Vision video masters and do in general
exhibit an exceptionnally good picture quality. They are 16:9 by
nature, as their source is. Apart from that Genesis, check out the
Sting 40th Birthday for example.

3. Hi-Vision specs

1125i is theoretical, 1080i is actual and therefore shows on any HDTV
worldwide. Not only HDTV brings us higher PQ, it also drops the country
barriers that existed in the age of NTSC/PAL/SECAM, at least at the
display level.

4. Hi-Vision hardware, LD list, info and offers:

Can be found on my web page here:
http://home.q03.itscom.net/nsa/muse.htm

Also listed in eBay in my Discs-of-Japan store (seller n$a):
<http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=6355...;
Orders, enquiries, requests welcome.


Greetings,
Nicolas
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 1:16:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

As others have said, it works great displaying at 1080i

Kurtis

"half_eaten" <half_eaten@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1b6febb0cc027cf43b56b95d11cb2af6@localhost.talkaboutvideo.com...
> You have a HiVision player? I didn't think that would be able to work on
> an
> american HDTV. The only modes they support are 480i/p, 720p and 1080i.
>
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 1:24:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

They don't downscale, there is only one HDTV format, it is 1125i
theoretical = 1080i actual. You can call it 1125i or 1080i, it is the
SAME THING.
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 3:03:22 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Oh, I didn't know the players downscale to 1080i. I figured they just
output 1125 and only work on some weird japanese HD format TV sets or
something. That's awesome!
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 3:08:49 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On 8 Jan 2005 07:55:53 -0800, "n$a" <nsa@dk.catv.ne.jp> wrote:

> it has discreet Dolby Surround

I would hope that for a concert disc it's not discreet, but instead
discrete!
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 3:15:37 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<I've never seen a HiVision LD with a separate AC-3 soundtrack.>>

I didn't know if they had AC-3, but I was under the impression that
the X9 had an RF output for standard NTSC discs.

<<HiVision has
its own multi-channel Audio encoding that is decoded in the MUSE
decoder.>>

Interesting...how many speakers does this format support, and in what
configuration? Once the decoder decodes this special soundtrack, how
should a reciever handle it (pro-logic mode, stereo mode, etc...)? Can
the decoder be connected to a reciever via coaxial or toslink?
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 5:04:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Steven Grauman wrote:
>
> <<HiVision has
> its own multi-channel Audio encoding that is decoded in the MUSE
> decoder.>>
>
> Interesting...how many speakers does this format support, and in what
> configuration? Once the decoder decodes this special soundtrack, how
> should a reciever handle it (pro-logic mode, stereo mode, etc...)?
Can
> the decoder be connected to a reciever via coaxial or toslink?

Most of these questions are already answered on my page:
http://home.q03.itscom.net/nsa/muse.htm

One simple and effective way is to connect the 5 analog discrete
outputs of the decoder to the amp's 5.1 input zone, leaving .1 empty.
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 11:00:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>Oh, I didn't know the players downscale to 1080i. I figured they just
>output 1125 and only work on some weird japanese HD format TV sets or
>something.

Some HDTVs can exceed 1080i. JVC's 34-inch CRT HDTV can produced 1500i, which I
believe is standard for Japan (although I'm not certain). However I don't know
if anything, even in Japan, is broadcast at that resolution, and I wasn't aware
that the players downscaled MUSE discs to 1080i.
Steve Grauman
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 5:22:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<One simple and effective way is to connect the 5 analog discrete
outputs of the decoder to the amp's 5.1 input zone, leaving .1 empty.>>

So how do I get audio for the LFE channel? And what audio mode should a
reciever be in when running a MUSE disc, Pro-Logic? Lastly, your site
says that the Victor/JVC HV-VMD1 has a toslink optical output. Is that
a pass through for the digital audio on regular NTSC discs, or is that
a digital carrier for the MUSE type surround sound?
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 9:07:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Joshua Zyber wrote:
> "Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1105309377.260602.164660@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > <<One simple and effective way is to connect the 5 analog discrete
> > outputs of the decoder to the amp's 5.1 input zone, leaving .1
> > empty.>>
> >
> > So how do I get audio for the LFE channel?
>
> The obvious answer is that the MUSE audio format does not have a
> dedicated .1 LFE channel. The bass will be mixed into the other
> channels.
>
> > And what audio mode should a
> > reciever be in when running a MUSE disc, Pro-Logic?
>
> If you're using the 6-channel analog inputs on the receiver, you
bypass
> the receiver's decoding and processing.

Josh is correct. Another way is to have the 4 outputs of the MUSE
decoder sent to an external Dolby processor with such input and let the
processor make a 5.1 out of it, send this to the amp.
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 9:15:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<Lastly, your site
says that the Victor/JVC HV-VMD1 has a toslink optical output. Is that
a pass through for the digital audio on regular NTSC discs, or is that
a digital carrier for the MUSE type surround sound?>>

Answer to this is on the site as well, copy/paste:
HV-VMD1: [...] 2 optical (L'R', CS)
L'R' denotes a 2-channels mix down-converted from MUSE's LRCS.

The NTSC output of the LD deck does not go to the MUSE decoder. Which,
as you may now figure out, results in that a fully installed Hi-Vision
LD setup has even more audio cables running around than a regular LD
setup.
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 9:32:27 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<If you're using the 6-channel analog inputs on the receiver, you
bypass
the receiver's decoding and processing. >>

But my Denon always needs to be set on a "mode". If I want Pro-Logic,
Dolby Digital or DTS sound I set it to "Pro-Logic mode" and it auto
detects what codec it's getting. Otherwsie, I put it in Stereo or
"Direct" or I can set it for some sort of "simulation mode" such as
5-channel Stereo, Rock Concert, etc...If I were feeding it with the
6-channel analog inputs from a MUSE player, whuch of those "modes"
would it need to be set to?
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 9:36:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<Josh is correct. Another way is to have the 4 outputs of the MUSE
decoder sent to an external Dolby processor with such input and let the
processor make a 5.1 out of it, send this to the amp.>>

The Denon I'm currently using is an integrated processor and
multi-channel amp, it's all in one unit. It has 6-channel analog inputs
on the back, which is what (I think) I'd need to use with the MUSE
decoder. What I'm not understanding is what "Mode" the reciever should
be set to when watching a MUSE movie. I can set it to Pro-Logic mode,
which auto detects Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital or DTS signals and switches
itself accordingly, or I can set it for Stereo, "Direct", "5-Channel
Stereo" or any of several simulation modes such as Rock Concert and
Video Game. If I were feeding it with a MUSE decoder, I assume that I
would need it set to either Pro-Logic or "Direct" and I'm curious as to
where it should be set.
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 10:03:23 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Any of those as anyway it won't be applied to the incoming 5.1 signal.
You do have a 5.1 input zone, right ?
Do you have a manual, have you tried to find the answer in it ?
Anonymous
January 9, 2005 11:08:21 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<You do have a 5.1 input zone, right ?>>

Yes.

<<Do you have a manual, have you tried to find the answer in it ?>>

I haven't consulted the manual, although I'm curious as to wether the
receiver should handle an incoming MUSE audio signal differently than
it would a multi-channel DVD or DVD-A signal, which is what the manual
will probably pertain to. Nonetheless, I'll dig it up and take a look.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 12:30:40 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<There is a mode usually called something like "external direct">>

My reciever just has a mode called "Direct" that will simply amplify
the incomign source without doing any processing work other than the
D/A conversion. But now I have no idea if it applies to the analog
6-channel inputs. I'll need to consult the manual.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 1:32:07 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Your receiver has no way to know the source of the analog 5.1 signal it
is being fed, obviously. The whole point of a 6 channel input is
precisely to to be compatible with all sources. Some early AC-3
decoders for example had 5.1 channels analog out, instead of a 5.1
digital out, because at the time the amps did not have dolby digital
decoding capability. There are likely other applications where the 6
channels input of a receiver can be put to use.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 1:48:29 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1105309377.260602.164660@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> <<One simple and effective way is to connect the 5 analog discrete
> outputs of the decoder to the amp's 5.1 input zone, leaving .1
> empty.>>
>
> So how do I get audio for the LFE channel?

The obvious answer is that the MUSE audio format does not have a
dedicated .1 LFE channel. The bass will be mixed into the other
channels.

> And what audio mode should a
> reciever be in when running a MUSE disc, Pro-Logic?

If you're using the 6-channel analog inputs on the receiver, you bypass
the receiver's decoding and processing.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 2:06:14 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I tried connecting the front right and left channel outputs from the
connectors on my DVD player to the front right and left inputs on my
reciever (and yes, I made sure I was using the multi-channel connectors
and not the standard stereo outputs). I get sound through the front
speakers, but I can't control the volume of the sound. Regardless of if
I have the unit set to -60 or +15, the volume is constant when running
with these inputs. When I go back to my toslink connection, everything
works normally and I can adjust the volume, I don't get it.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 3:33:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<What model stereo are you using exactly?>>
A Denon AVR-2803. But I figured out the problem, thanks anyway.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 4:05:08 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Yeah, your analog 6-channel inputs will ALWAYS bypass the digital signal
processor(s) - Never seen a receiver that doesn't.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 4:14:38 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

You are correct about the AC-3 RF on the X9 for AC-3 encoded NTSC LD's. But
there is a totally separate board that the handles the HiVision and output a
MUSE signal to the MUSE decoder. As noted in other responses, MUSE does not
have an AC-3 signal.

Kurtis

"Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1105258537.142506.254040@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> <<I've never seen a HiVision LD with a separate AC-3 soundtrack.>>
>
> I didn't know if they had AC-3, but I was under the impression that
> the X9 had an RF output for standard NTSC discs.
>
> <<HiVision has
> its own multi-channel Audio encoding that is decoded in the MUSE
> decoder.>>
>
> Interesting...how many speakers does this format support, and in what
> configuration? Once the decoder decodes this special soundtrack, how
> should a reciever handle it (pro-logic mode, stereo mode, etc...)? Can
> the decoder be connected to a reciever via coaxial or toslink?
>
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 5:26:26 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

What model stereo are you using exactly?
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 7:12:41 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1105324580.300862.208530@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> <<Josh is correct. Another way is to have the 4 outputs of the MUSE
> decoder sent to an external Dolby processor with such input and let
> the
> processor make a 5.1 out of it, send this to the amp.>>
>
> The Denon I'm currently using is an integrated processor and
> multi-channel amp, it's all in one unit. It has 6-channel analog
> inputs
> on the back, which is what (I think) I'd need to use with the MUSE
> decoder. What I'm not understanding is what "Mode" the reciever should
> be set to when watching a MUSE movie. I can set it to Pro-Logic mode,
> which auto detects Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital or DTS signals and
> switches
> itself accordingly, or I can set it for Stereo, "Direct", "5-Channel
> Stereo" or any of several simulation modes such as Rock Concert and
> Video Game. If I were feeding it with a MUSE decoder, I assume that I
> would need it set to either Pro-Logic or "Direct" and I'm curious as
> to
> where it should be set.

None of those "modes" apply to the 6-channel analog input. They are all
bypassed and the receiver functions only as an amplifier. When you use
this type of input, you do all of your decoding and processing
externally.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 7:16:57 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Joshua Zyber" <jzyber@SPAMMERS-BITE-ME.mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:ZgnEd.2520$C52.261@newsread2.news.atl.earthlink.net...
> "Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:1105324580.300862.208530@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
> > <<Josh is correct. Another way is to have the 4 outputs of the MUSE
> > decoder sent to an external Dolby processor with such input and let
> > the
> > processor make a 5.1 out of it, send this to the amp.>>
> >
> > The Denon I'm currently using is an integrated processor and
> > multi-channel amp, it's all in one unit. It has 6-channel analog
> > inputs
> > on the back, which is what (I think) I'd need to use with the MUSE
> > decoder. What I'm not understanding is what "Mode" the reciever should
> > be set to when watching a MUSE movie. I can set it to Pro-Logic mode,
> > which auto detects Pro-Logic, Dolby Digital or DTS signals and
> > switches
> > itself accordingly, or I can set it for Stereo, "Direct", "5-Channel
> > Stereo" or any of several simulation modes such as Rock Concert and
> > Video Game. If I were feeding it with a MUSE decoder, I assume that I
> > would need it set to either Pro-Logic or "Direct" and I'm curious as
> > to
> > where it should be set.
>
> None of those "modes" apply to the 6-channel analog input. They are all
> bypassed and the receiver functions only as an amplifier. When you use
> this type of input, you do all of your decoding and processing
> externally.
>
>
There is a mode usually called something like "external direct", or
"external pass-thru", in fact many newer pre/pros and/or receivers actually
have a dedicated remote button.
Anonymous
January 10, 2005 3:20:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Steven Grauman" <OneActor1@aol.com> wrote in message
news:1105340774.055683.23950@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com...
>I tried connecting the front right and left channel outputs from the
> connectors on my DVD player to the front right and left inputs on my
> reciever (and yes, I made sure I was using the multi-channel
> connectors
> and not the standard stereo outputs). I get sound through the front
> speakers,

The 6-channel analog inputs work as direct pathways to the corresponding
speakers for each RCA jack. If you plug a cable into the Front Left
jack, signal gets sent to the Front Left speaker and only the Front Left
speaker. Likewise with the Front Right, etc. This is why ProLogic and
other types of decoding are bypassed. With these inputs you should be
connecting all 6 and doing your decoding externally. The external
decoder will decide which sounds go to which speakers, not the receiver.

> but I can't control the volume of the sound. Regardless of if
> I have the unit set to -60 or +15, the volume is constant when running
> with these inputs. When I go back to my toslink connection, everything
> works normally and I can adjust the volume, I don't get it.

Your master volume should be the only control that still works. This
works fine on my Denon 3803.
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 10:19:48 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Oh, you finally found out that to change volume you have to turn the
big knob ?
Anonymous
January 11, 2005 8:00:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

<<Oh, you finally found out that to change volume you have to turn the
big knob ?>>

No, I found out that is was a bad connection. Nice attempt at humor
though.
!