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Pioneer Elite CLD-50 arrived DOA :-(

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Anonymous
January 15, 2005 9:21:56 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Hi all,

I recently purchased a Pioneer Elite CLD-90 that arrived DOA. Well,
the lights on the face illuminate, and there's voltage out of the
video-out and light coming from the toslink-out, but there is no
mechanical activity at all. Tray does not eject, nothing.

I tried opening the player to look for a big "ON/OFF" switch inside
that would magically fix the player, but found nothing (BTW, that's a
joke). I might as well have been a caveman with a cellphone.

I'm wondering who I can send this player to for service. My local
shop, Flanners Audio & Video in Milwaukee, WI will do the repairs, but
they will run about $175 typically (so they say) with a $50 charge
just to look at it (makes sense).

I've read the groups and found two names everyone is probably familiar
with: Kurtis Bahr, and LaserdiscService.com.

Is this price typical for their repair? Anyone out there with a
similar problem with their player that was easily fixed? Anyone know
the location of the magic "FIX IT" button?

Years ago I upgraded my LX-900 with a kit from PrecisionLaserdisc. I
purchased this unit to upgrade it to AC-3 as an experiment to see if I
could build the circuit myself and get it to work.

Thanks,
Tracy Brown
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 9:21:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I don't think you have indicated the correct model number. Title says
"cld-50", but message says "cld-90". Many older models are not worth
fixing. The goup would need to know the exact correct model number.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 9:21:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

You're right. It was niether. I really F'd that up, didn't I.

It's the CLD-52 Pioneer Elite.

Tracy

On 15 Jan 2005 12:52:40 -0800, "shower_urinator"
<shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:

>I don't think you have indicated the correct model number. Title says
>"cld-50", but message says "cld-90". Many older models are not worth
>fixing. The goup would need to know the exact correct model number.
Related resources
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 9:21:58 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

CLD-52 Pioneer Elite
************************

I'll probably never get my money back on it either. The seller tells
me she's started the process with UPS, but I believe that the process
has to start at the recipient's end.

Anyway, I'll be leaving bad feedback with her account as I think this
unit was actually Dead-On-Shipment. I won't buy any other LD player
(or anything else for that matter) on Ebay without seeing pictures of
the proper operation of the unit.

When I ebay somehting, I'm detailed to a fault with many pictures that
are enlargeable. Full disclosure. Not everyone is that way on Ebay.

Thanks,
Tracy

On 15 Jan 2005 12:52:40 -0800, "shower_urinator"
<shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:

>I don't think you have indicated the correct model number. Title says
>"cld-50", but message says "cld-90". Many older models are not worth
>fixing. The goup would need to know the exact correct model number.
Anonymous
January 15, 2005 9:26:38 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

If you used a credit card, call the credit card company and do a
chargeback. Insurance is to protect the seller. How well was the
laserdisc player packed? Does the box look smashed in or dropped?

I don't think this player would be worth fixing unless you can do it
yourself. The past 3 that sold on ebay went for between $75 - $102.
Why pay more for a repair than the replacement cost?
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 3:05:47 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

The seller is the one that has to make the claim as they are the one that
insured it and packed it. They will want to see the unit and shipping box
with packaging used or the claim will not be honored.

After the claim is over or you need an estimate you could chose either
laserdisc service or myself to look at it. The biggest difference is this
is a hobby for me so I don't stock parts and turn-around time could be quick
or could take awhile. Laserdisc service does this for a business.

My guess is that if it was packed properly UPS will pick it up from you, the
seller will hopefully have the payment sent to you and you will never see
this unit again. I doubt the repair cost would be less than you paid for
the unit.

Kurtis

"Tracy Brown" <tracyj_brown@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b5ju09i7v7aqmgei9bdk1qgvpq8ts27df@4ax.com...
>
> CLD-52 Pioneer Elite
> ************************
>
> I'll probably never get my money back on it either. The seller tells
> me she's started the process with UPS, but I believe that the process
> has to start at the recipient's end.
>
> Anyway, I'll be leaving bad feedback with her account as I think this
> unit was actually Dead-On-Shipment. I won't buy any other LD player
> (or anything else for that matter) on Ebay without seeing pictures of
> the proper operation of the unit.
>
> When I ebay somehting, I'm detailed to a fault with many pictures that
> are enlargeable. Full disclosure. Not everyone is that way on Ebay.
>
> Thanks,
> Tracy
>
> On 15 Jan 2005 12:52:40 -0800, "shower_urinator"
> <shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't think you have indicated the correct model number. Title says
>>"cld-50", but message says "cld-90". Many older models are not worth
>>fixing. The goup would need to know the exact correct model number.
>
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:25:02 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

File the complaint with paypal. You will get your $$$ back.

--Leonid

Tracy Brown <tracyj_brown@yahoo.com> wrote:

: CLD-52 Pioneer Elite
: ************************

: I'll probably never get my money back on it either. The seller tells
: me she's started the process with UPS, but I believe that the process
: has to start at the recipient's end.

: Anyway, I'll be leaving bad feedback with her account as I think this
: unit was actually Dead-On-Shipment. I won't buy any other LD player
: (or anything else for that matter) on Ebay without seeing pictures of
: the proper operation of the unit.

: When I ebay somehting, I'm detailed to a fault with many pictures that
: are enlargeable. Full disclosure. Not everyone is that way on Ebay.

: Thanks,
: Tracy

: On 15 Jan 2005 12:52:40 -0800, "shower_urinator"
: <shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:

:>I don't think you have indicated the correct model number. Title says
:>"cld-50", but message says "cld-90". Many older models are not worth
:>fixing. The goup would need to know the exact correct model number.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 9:10:00 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Don't feel too bad. I got ripped by an ebay seller last month on a Pioneer
CLD-79. I paid too much for it to begin with and then it came DOA. I paid
through a personal check. The seller even enclosed a video tape to show how
"well" the unit performed before he shipped it. An obvious way to cover your
tracks.

I'm done buying anything off eBay. The scumbags have really taken it over.

"Tracy Brown" <tracyj_brown@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:6b5ju09i7v7aqmgei9bdk1qgvpq8ts27df@4ax.com...
>
> CLD-52 Pioneer Elite
> ************************
>
> I'll probably never get my money back on it either. The seller tells
> me she's started the process with UPS, but I believe that the process
> has to start at the recipient's end.
>
> Anyway, I'll be leaving bad feedback with her account as I think this
> unit was actually Dead-On-Shipment. I won't buy any other LD player
> (or anything else for that matter) on Ebay without seeing pictures of
> the proper operation of the unit.
>
> When I ebay somehting, I'm detailed to a fault with many pictures that
> are enlargeable. Full disclosure. Not everyone is that way on Ebay.
>
> Thanks,
> Tracy
>
> On 15 Jan 2005 12:52:40 -0800, "shower_urinator"
> <shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>>I don't think you have indicated the correct model number. Title says
>>"cld-50", but message says "cld-90". Many older models are not worth
>>fixing. The goup would need to know the exact correct model number.
>
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 12:22:08 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Bernie,

If you use a credit card through paypal, you have recourse for DOA
items. You can initiate a chargeback with the credit card company and
get your money back. Sellers get charged an extra $10 for every
chargeback, so they are more willing to refund.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 1:29:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Leonid Makarovsky wrote:
> Sometimes there're no places to buy such rare LD players other than
> ebay.

I know of only a handful of people that I would trust with shipping a
high-end LD player -- Kurtis, Nicolas, Josh, and Kevin come to mind
immediately. I don't know if Duncan sells players, or not, but I'm
sure that he would know how to ship one if he did.

Most of the yokel sellers on eBay wouldn't know how to double box a
player even if you gave them specific instructions to do so. For the
two players that I bought on eBay, I asked the sellers if they were
willing to double box the player with lots of packing peanuts in
between the two boxes. Both said, "yes." Otherwise, I would have
passed on them.

HTH,

-Junior
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 2:56:47 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Bernie Woodham wrote:
> Yeah, I know. I'm just bitter about getting ripped. I'll cool off.
> But, I'll be a lot more careful about the next high price item I buy.
Did you at least give the seller a neg?

-Junior
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 3:41:33 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

In article <1105900145.302346.37630@c13g2000cwb.googlegroups.com>,
watsona@kenyon.edu says...

> Most of the yokel sellers on eBay wouldn't know how to double box a
> player even if you gave them specific instructions to do so.

Most sellers on eBay can't seem to manage to pack laserdiscs correctly,
let alone players.

Dave
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 5:22:37 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Bob Niland wrote:

<much advice regarding eBay... snipped>

Wow! THE Bob Niland... The guy who convinced be to purchase a
CLD-3070 many years ago. I still have the player (albeit augmented
with an AC-3 RF output), and it still works great!

-Junior
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 6:53:59 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Bob Niland wrote:
> I've started hanging out here because I may need to buy
> a new TV in the near future, and may find that I can get
> a deal on a w/s LCD that lacks a scaler (so LBX LDs
> aren't displayed optimally).
>
> So, I'm keeping an eye out for discussions on low-cost
> scalers that do a decent job.

I'm looking at a Samsung DLP set that has the Faroudja DCDi
deinterlacer. I'm going to take my CLD-3070 or my CLD-1010 to Best Buy
one of these days and hook up the composite into the set to see if the
set displays the signal well. If it does, then I'll be $2,500 poorer.
:-)

-Junior
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 8:47:05 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

> unclejr <watsona@kenyon.edu> wrote:

> The guy who convinced be to purchase a
> CLD-3070 many years ago.

Mine's been in storage for several years, along with
my entire collection. And yes, my CLD-3070 still has
the random auto-shutdown probem.

> I still have the player (albeit augmented
> with an AC-3 RF output), and it still works great!

I've started hanging out here because I may need to buy
a new TV in the near future, and may find that I can get
a deal on a w/s LCD that lacks a scaler (so LBX LDs
aren't displayed optimally).

So, I'm keeping an eye out for discussions on low-cost
scalers that do a decent job.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 9:07:04 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Bernie Woodham <birnhamwood@insightbb.com> wrote:
: Don't feel too bad. I got ripped by an ebay seller last month on a Pioneer
: CLD-79. I paid too much for it to begin with and then it came DOA. I paid
: through a personal check. The seller even enclosed a video tape to show how
: "well" the unit performed before he shipped it. An obvious way to cover your
: tracks.

That's a very interesting point. So you're saying: "if you get screwed on ebay,
it's ok as long as other people get screwed"? And if are the only one who got
screwed, then you should feel bad? :) 

Sometimes there're no places to buy such rare LD players other than ebay.

--Leonid
Anonymous
January 16, 2005 10:50:57 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"Leonid Makarovsky" <venom@csa3.bu.edu> wrote in message
news:cseag7$798$3@news3.bu.edu...
> Bernie Woodham <birnhamwood@insightbb.com> wrote:
> : Don't feel too bad. I got ripped by an ebay seller last month on a
> Pioneer
> : CLD-79. I paid too much for it to begin with and then it came DOA. I
> paid
> : through a personal check. The seller even enclosed a video tape to show
> how
> : "well" the unit performed before he shipped it. An obvious way to cover
> your
> : tracks.
>
> That's a very interesting point. So you're saying: "if you get screwed on
> ebay,
> it's ok as long as other people get screwed"? And if are the only one who
> got
> screwed, then you should feel bad? :) 
>
> Sometimes there're no places to buy such rare LD players other than ebay.
>
> --Leonid

Yeah, I know. I'm just bitter about getting ripped. I'll cool off. But,
I'll be a lot more careful about the next high price item I buy.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 11:26:12 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

"The seller's part is finished first -- he or she is done when the
buyer's payment is received, and the item is shipped."

I disagree. The seller's part may not be done at this point. The
buyer may not be satisfied. The seller may need to do a partial
refund, file an insurance claim or authorize a return and then refund
upon inspection.

The buyer may not know how to operate the item and incorrectly claim
the item does not work. The buyer may try to return a different
defective item in place of the one that was shipped. If the buyer used
a credit card, they may wait a few months and then initiate a charge
back.

The buyer needs to inform the seller that they received the item and
that they are satisfied by leaving the seller positive feedback first.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 2:34:31 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

> shower_urinator <shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:

> The buyer needs to inform the seller that they received
> the item and that they are satisfied ...

Agree. Buyer can do this via email, phone, SMS,
carrier pigeon or candygram.

> ... by leaving the seller positive feedback first.

Disagree.
Let the seller post FB first.

Speaking as someone who does more selling than buying
on eBay.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 4:20:06 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:34:31 -0600, Bob Niland <email4rjn@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>> shower_urinator <shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:
>
>> The buyer needs to inform the seller that they received
>> the item and that they are satisfied ...
>
>Agree. Buyer can do this via email, phone, SMS,
>carrier pigeon or candygram.
>
>> ... by leaving the seller positive feedback first.
>
>Disagree.
>Let the seller post FB first.
>
>Speaking as someone who does more selling than buying
>on eBay.

I agree. When the seller has the money, what's he got to
beef about?

I buy and sell on ebay. I believe when the buyer makes the
payment, the seller should leave feedback immediately. When
the buyer receives the item, and all is well, feedback for the
seller should follow.

There are knuckleheads in every situation, but the majority of
sellers on ebay are honest. Out of 1000 transactions, possibly
5 have been a negative experience for me. And I came out on
top on 4 of those. I waited too long on that one.

The key is to act quickly when the seller or buyer is not living
up to the terms of the auction.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 4:47:19 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

I was with you up until this point. I think it's common ebay practice
for the buyer to post first. The success of the purchase hinges on the
seller's happiness with the item purchased. When the buyer is happy,
then the sale is good and he should leave good feedback. Until the
seller knows that the buyer is happy with the item, why leave
feedback? The sale isn't completed yet, right? Feedback can only be
left by both parties when the sale is completed (positive), or totally
broken down (negative).

On Sun, 16 Jan 2005 14:42:32 -0600, Bob Niland <email4rjn@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>14. Do not post FeedBack until the seller does. If they
> never do, then you never do.
>
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 4:47:20 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

>> 14. Do not post FeedBack until the seller does.
>> If they never do, then you never do.

> Tracy Brown <tracyj_brown@yahoo.com> wrote:
> I was with you up until this point.

It's a topic that's debated endless in
news:alt.marketing.online.ebay

> I think it's common ebay practice for the buyer
> to post first.

Common, but not the most common.

> The success of the purchase hinges on the
> seller's happiness with the item purchased.

Is that a misstatement?

> Until the seller knows that the buyer is happy
> with the item, why leave feedback?

True, but learning that the buyer is happy can be
in the form of an email saying so.

> The sale isn't completed yet, right?

True.

I've previously written ...

>> Who leaves the first feedback? Seller after
>> receiving payment, or buyer after receiving item?

If you are a buyer, figure this out about each seller
before bidding. Some have stated policies. Some have
unstated polices - check timestamps on FB given and
received.

As a seller, have a policy, and state it. Here's mine:

Seller Posts FB First.
(after item Acceptance)

There are several reasons for this, including:

* future bidders will examine my FB history
for evidence of FB-hostaging (buyer-1st).
I want that history to show seller-1st.

* eBay sets an expectation of seller-1st (with
their unwise suggestion of posting FB upon
payment).

* Seller-first reciprocates the risk-taking
that the buyer undertook by sending money
to a perfect stranger.

As a buyer, I follow the same policy. I let the
seller post first. Because some bidders do look
for FB-hostaging, buyers are not necessarily doing
the seller a favor by posting FB first.

"Acceptance" is the buyer indicating that the item
arrived undamaged and as-described.

FB is FB on the transaction, and it's not over
'til it's over. Suppose the buyer refuses delivery,
or falsely claims non-delivery, or reverses payment?
(And I've had one refuse delivery.)

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 6:45:48 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 13:47:19 GMT, Tracy Brown <tracyj_brown@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>I was with you up until this point. I think it's common ebay practice
>for the buyer to post first.

I don't. I'm with Bob: the seller should post first. The seller's part
is finished first -- he or she is done when the buyer's payment is
received, and the item is shipped. The buyer does not need to do
anything else in order to influence the feedback for the buyer one way
or another. If, as a buyer, you communicate with the seller promptly
and clearly, and send complete payment and shipping information, then
what else does the seller need in order to feel the transaction went
well?

As a buyer, the success of the transaction depends on how good the
communication is with the seller, and whether the goods arrive as
promised (and in a timely fashion, I guess).

Why would I, as a buyer who has sent money but not yet received
anything, post positive feedback? Or, if I have received the goods and
they're broken -- but I dealt in good faith and sent my payment
quickly and efficiently -- why should I receive negative feedback? Or
even be in a position to worry about receiving negative feedback?
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 7:35:54 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Tracy Brown <tracyj_brown@yahoo.com> wrote:
: I was with you up until this point. I think it's common ebay practice
: for the buyer to post first. The success of the purchase hinges on the

No. Then the seller should ship first and then when a buyer receives it,
he will leave a feedback and pay money.

I personally think if a seller has received money, he should leave a feedback.
And then if the buyer received an item and happy, he should leave a feedback.

I think ebay should impose such policy. For example if a seller sends invoice,
and the item has been paid in full, the automatic positive feedback should go
from a seller to a buyer. Something like that.

--Leonid
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 9:13:09 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Bob Niland wrote:
> > shower_urinator <shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > The buyer needs to inform the seller that they received
> > the item and that they are satisfied ...
>
> Agree. Buyer can do this via email, phone, SMS,
> carrier pigeon or candygram.

I agree the buyer could inform the seller in many ways, but these ways
circumvent the ebay process. Ebay exists for a reason, to hold buyer
and seller to some level of accountability. If there is a way to do
something within the ebay process, but the participant chooses a method
outside ebay, then I become skeptical.

>
> > ... by leaving the seller positive feedback first.
>
> Disagree.
> Let the seller post FB first.

I still don't understand. The buyer sent the money and the seller
received the money, then the seller sent the merchandise and the buyer
received the merchandise. At this point the seller is supposed to
notify the whole ebay community that this transaction was positive?
There are still avenues that the buyer can pursue within ebay and
paypal that directly affect the final outcome of the transaction.
Furthermore, the buyer could behave unethically after receiving the
merchandise. By leaving positive feedback after the buyer notifies
you, there is no way to leave negative feedback about unethical
behavior that can occur afterwards.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 9:47:42 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

After reading this thread, I cant imagine anyone in their right mind doing
any business on eBay..


"Bob Niland" <email4rjn@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:o pskrcftqrft8z8r@news.individual.net...
> > shower_urinator <shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:
>
> > The buyer needs to inform the seller that they received
> > the item and that they are satisfied ...
>
> Agree. Buyer can do this via email, phone, SMS,
> carrier pigeon or candygram.
>
> > ... by leaving the seller positive feedback first.
>
> Disagree.
> Let the seller post FB first.
>
> Speaking as someone who does more selling than buying
> on eBay.
>
> --
> Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
> http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
> NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
Anonymous
January 17, 2005 10:48:18 PM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Bob, I agree with your basic premise: wait to leave feedback until you
know that the buyer is satisfied with the purchase. I just choose to
wait one more step and have the buyer first post feedback.

I don't see it as holding feedback "hostage" to wait until the buyer
leaves feedback first. It's just that as the seller, there is more to
risk in leaving good feedback without knowing if the buyer is happy
with the purchase.

What if the buyer leaves bad feedback summarily without trying to
resolve complaints with the seller first? By leaving good feedback for
the buyer right away, the seller has removed any recourse for himself
to warn other sellers.

As the seller in that situation, I might leave bad feedback for the
buyer for not taking time to resolve his complaint first. After all,
shouldn't other sellers be warned about this type of behavior? How
else might a seller be warned about this type of buyer? As you said,
lots can happen after the buyer pays for the item.

I suppose I can see it both ways, but it is, after all, still a matter
of differing opinion.

Tracy

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:34:31 -0600, Bob Niland <email4rjn@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>
>Agree. Buyer can do this via email, phone, SMS,
>carrier pigeon or candygram.
>
>Let the seller post FB first.
>
>Speaking as someone who does more selling than buying
>on eBay.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 12:01:32 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

> shower_urinator <shower_urinator@lycos.com> wrote:

> I agree the buyer could inform the seller in many ways,
> but these ways circumvent the ebay process.

Not really. Feedback is "optional" (eBay's term for it).
It is therefore not part of any required process. Some
buyers simply see eBay as a place to buy stuff, and
entirely blow off feedback (as well as any communication
beyond making payment).

eBay has no policy, or even suggestion, on who posts 1st.
If they did, netnews discussions like these would be
dramatically less common :-)

> ... but the participant chooses a method
> outside ebay, then I become skeptical.

Email communication between buyer and seller is part of
the process. Although a sale can close with no emails,
it's not uncommon for a transaction to include several.

>> Let the seller post FB first.

> I still don't understand.

The bottom line is the bottom line. To the extent that
buyers care about the issue, the majority of them want
the seller to post FB first. If you have a buyer-1st
policy, you may get fewer bids and lower closes.

As a seller, my policy is: seller-1st-after-acceptance.
It's published on my About-Me page.

As a buyer, I usually no-bid when I see auctions where
the seller has a posted or stealth buyer-1st policy.
Why? Because it all too often means that the FB profile
is distorted. There are probably a lot more unhappy
buyers than the Neg count and FB % indicate.

How many other buyers share my attitude?
That's the question every seller must ask & answer.

> The buyer sent the money and the seller received the
> money, then the seller sent the merchandise and the buyer
> received the merchandise.

Not done yet. Normally the seller already knows that
delivery occured, because they had tracking on the parcel.

But you've left out the important issue of "acceptance".
The buyer needs to confirm that the item is undamaged,
at least as-advertised, and give some indication of
satisfaction. If there are issues, they need to be resolved
before anyone posts FB.

Not: post FB upon payment.
Not: post FB upon delivery.
Rather: post FB upon acceptance.

If I never get an acceptance report, I never post FB
to the buyer. Some never do report it. I don't pester
them about it.

If acceptance takes the form of +FB from the buyer,
no problem. It happens.

> At this point the seller is supposed to notify the
> whole ebay community that this transaction was positive?

Only if you have high confidence that it was positive.
"Acceptance" creates high confidence.

Sure, the buyer can report acceptance and then go wierd
on you later, but that's unlikely. If you are going to
worry about corner cases like that, no one would ever
post FB.

> Furthermore, the buyer could behave unethically after
> receiving the merchandise.

Yes, but if they've reported acceptance, that risk is
substantially reduced.

> By leaving positive feedback after the buyer notifies
> you, there is no way to leave negative feedback about
> unethical behavior that can occur afterwards.

If I get an acceptance report, that's a risk I'm willing
to take.

The risk I'm not willing to take is driving off bidders
who detect that I hostage FB.

Every seller (and buyer) needs a policy on this. And
they need to think about it, run the scenarios, and
even talk to other users. Look to your consequences.
Act accordingly.

--
Regards, Bob Niland mailto:name@ispname.tld
http://www.access-one.com/rjn email4rjn AT yahoo DOT com
NOT speaking for any employer, client or Internet Service Provider.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 5:26:52 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

Yes it was a misstatement. I meant, "Hinges on the BUYER'S happiness".

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 09:35:15 -0600, Bob Niland <email4rjn@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>
>
>> The success of the purchase hinges on the
>> seller's happiness with the item purchased.
>
>Is that a misstatement?
>
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 7:26:30 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 11:31:22 -0600, Bob Niland <email4rjn@yahoo.com>
wrote:

>> Karyudo <karyudo_usenet@yahoo.com.remove.me> wrote:
>
>> The seller's part is finished first -- he or she is done
>> when the buyer's payment is received, and the item is shipped.
>
>Not hardly, pilgrim. A huge amount can still happen. The
>transaction is far from over, and the buyer still has
>other obligations to keep.

OK, I see what you mean. Points taken. I've done some selling and some
buying on eBay, but I know I'm not as sophistimacated as many. Still,
I think you're right to insist the seller give feedback first. Whether
intentional or not, I do think the buyer feels held hostage otherwise.
Anonymous
January 18, 2005 7:30:46 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

On Mon, 17 Jan 2005 18:47:42 GMT, "Biz" <biznospam@notatt.net> wrote:

>After reading this thread, I can't imagine anyone in their right mind doing
>any business on eBay..

In my experience (which, admittedly, is not nearly as much as some),
eBay is generally very safe, very good value, and very convivial. Most
people are out to sell and buy in good faith, and there are adequate
safeguards put in place to ensure that faith is not misplaced. Note,
too, that there are never posts about routine successes on eBay! It's
not like you'd expect someone to post "CLD-50 arrived safely ;) "...
Anonymous
January 20, 2005 4:19:51 AM

Archived from groups: alt.video.laserdisc (More info?)

When both seller and buyer are honest, it doesn't really matter who
posts feedback first. Problems occur when one or both is not, and after
payment was received and delivery was made, it is much easier for a
dishonest buyer to come back with a false claim, than for a seller
(what could he claim, counterfeit money was received and eventually
turned down at the bank ?). In that sense i would consider normal that
sellers need an extra step of protection and therefore post feedback
last. How about these ideas:
1. do feedback Yahoo Auctions style: can be added to and changed
from/to + to/from - as many times as needed
or
2. require whoever has the least feedback to post feedback first, be it
buyer or seller

The last idea is because i suppose fraudulent buyers and sellers do not
last long in eBay.

In my very first eBay transaction as a seller, i shipped the item
before being paid: i had zero feedback, buyer had 500+, item was over
$500. Now, some repeat buyers leave me feedback even before i ship them
the item. I think you need to adapt the behavior rgd payment and
feedback, depending on who your counterparty is. I also screen buyers
to authorize or not a PayPal payment, as fighting a PayPal chargeback
can prove impossible. Letting the buyer pay with PayPal in most cases
puts the seller at much more risk than giving fb first.
!