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Building my 1st - but should be sweet! - comments?

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January 25, 2013 2:50:21 PM

I'm building my first rig and sticking to my philosophy of "go big or go home".
I'm sticking to basically 2 brands; cooler master and asus. What do you think?

Asus Rampage iv Extreme X79
Asus GeForce GTX 280 4GB
Asus Black Blu-ray
Intel i7-3930K
G.Skill Ripjaws Z Series 32 GB (4x8GB) - with room for 4 more down the road!
Cooler Master 1200W psu
Cooler Master Hyper N 520 cpu cooler
Seagate 3tb Hard drive
Cooler Master HAF 932 Advanced Case

Not sure if I want to run Win7 or Win8 in it. Leaning toward 7 Professional 64 bit- thoughts?

- Thanks!
a b Ĉ ASUS
January 25, 2013 3:08:16 PM

Many problems here.

NEVER get a coolermaster PSU. Stick with Antec, XFX, Seasonic, Corsair

You will only need 500 watts to power this. Get one from the brands listed above.

A gtx 280 is an old card. On this budget, get something gtx660ti+

What will be the main use of this computer?
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January 25, 2013 3:12:14 PM

Oops - typo; GTX 680!

Mainly using for gaming.

I have a cooler master Hyper 212 EVO for the cpu cooler. Think I'll stick with that rather than the n520.
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January 25, 2013 3:12:58 PM

Agreed with Tiny. Some of this is Way Way overkill.
You don't need a 1200w PSU.
Most likely you don't need that MOBO either. $450 is a TON to spend on the mobo
Probably don't need that Proc either.
What is the intended purpose for the rig?
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a b Ĉ ASUS
January 25, 2013 3:14:20 PM

For gaming. Get an i5 3570k and 8gb RAM. Games only use 4gb RAM MAX and an i7 is no better than an i5 when it comes to gaming. Get a $120 motherboard.
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January 25, 2013 3:14:31 PM

thebigguy1955 said:
Oops - typo; GTX 680!

Mainly using for gaming.


Go with the 3570K proc (best for gaming) i7 gives no benefit for gaming.
Drop the PSU down to 600-650 Watt. What tiny suggested for brands.
Drop the mobo down to a z77 looking in the range of $150-$250ish.
8GB of ram is ALL you need for gaming (it's actually a bit overkill)
The GTX 680 is a great card. Good choice there.
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January 25, 2013 3:14:35 PM

Budget? I would do something more like this:
i5-3570k
GTX 670
8GB (2x4) Corsair or Gskill LP
Gigabyte ud5h z77
Noctua cooler
Samsung 120GB ssd
Caviar black or blue 1TB
750w for sli or ~650W for single card. Seasonic, corsair, antec, xfx, or pcp&c
Whatever case you want.
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January 25, 2013 4:42:00 PM

I realize this is overkill, and that's half the point! I have the money and want a bad-a$@ system.
I know I could go cheaper and have a perfectly good gaming machine, but I don't want "good",
I want extreme and top performance with overclocking potential.

I'm also trying to future-proof a little bit. The recommended wattage for the 680 is 500w or 550w; I may double up down the road so I thought I'd get the 1200w psu now rather than having to replace down the road. Doesn't hurt right?

If the 6 core i7 adds no benefit to gaming, why do they use it when testing these high end boards? - Serious question.
The tests with this board are all done with 1200W, single, high end gpu and a range of i7 cpu ($300 to $1000........?
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January 25, 2013 4:49:48 PM

thebigguy1955 said:
I realize this is overkill, and that's half the point! I have the money and want a bad-a$@ system.
I know I could go cheaper and have a perfectly good gaming machine, but I don't want "good",
I want extreme and top performance with overclocking potential.

I'm also trying to future-proof a little bit. The recommended wattage for the 680 is 500w or 550w; I may double up down the road so I thought I'd get the 1200w psu now rather than having to replace down the road. Doesn't hurt right?

If the 6 core i7 adds no benefit to gaming, why do they use it when testing these high end boards? - Serious question.


The reason the i7 gives no benefit (sometimes actually degrades performance) is most and i say most cause there are a few (like 1 or 2) that take full advantage of HT.

Honestly, Your better off not using all of your budget today. Setting some aside for upgrades later. No matter how much you spend today. You will not-Cannot "future proof" your rig. What you buy today. Next year will get blown out of the water by the latest and greatest vid card, proc, etc etc. There is no such thing as future proofing, however; there is such thing as smart spending and allowing yourself a budget to keep upgrading and maintain a "bad ass" system.

To answer your question. They test all Procs and all boards because they can (typically get boards and procs for free to test with) and people want to know the benchmarks of all of them.

In short what im tryin to say. You can spend all of your budget and get a system that looks amazing on paper. Is overkill for gaming and stays overkill for about 1-2 years. OR you can spend smart, set part of the budget aside and end up with a system that is overkill for 2-4 years. (by upgrading when necessary with the remaining budget)
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January 25, 2013 5:05:58 PM

Thank you for the info.

I am not worried about budget; I have the money to spend now and in the future; so money does not play into it (I don't want to get too crazy, but I'm 37 and self-employed; money down the road isn't a big concern). But I don't want a system that is only good on paper, as you say. I mean, this rig would have great potential for upgrades, correct? I would want to add a SSD, keep the gpu top notch (or put a second one in) and perhaps a sound card, although the MOBO seems to be pretty good on the sound end.

I realize there is no such thing as "future proofing". Computer tech marches on faster with each day. I just figured with all the bells and whistles this MOBO had to offer, I could keep it for a few years, just updating video card(s), adding RAM and whatnot. No?

What I'm saying is, all the answers have been about budget and money. I'm not concerned about that, I just wanted suggestions on what I could do to make it better (brands, compatibility, which OS to use, etc). I know it's expensive and I don't need that much RAM now, but you also can get away with running 1066 memory, but why would you if you can put in 1866 or OC it to 2400!
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January 25, 2013 5:51:04 PM

The guy wants to blow some big bucks... wants what he wants and is happy with ALC898 ob sound? Drop another 200 on a top of the line HT Omega card and more on great speakers for surround. Yeah, there IS a huge difference.

NO SSD? Load on another 200 for a 256GB drive.
Load up another 110 for a Corsair H100
Move up to 2400+CL9 memory with included fans... cough up another 2-250.

That's another 750 give or take plus speakers. Upside is the sound, SSD, H100 are all forward thinking.

As for 1200W PSU's.. go GOLD. Tests are performed with high end units so they are eliminated from the loop as a possible source of interference, drops, etc.

The neat thing is DDR4 is due out within a year so you get to start out all over on the major components.

Happy hunting... shoot 'em up!
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January 25, 2013 6:19:05 PM

It's not that i'm TRYING to spend as much as possible. It is just everyone came on and immediately said, save some money for upgrades later.
I have money for upgrades later! I just wanted suggestions and help as to if this rig would run the latest in games and games in the foreseeable future and give me some sick Registration and high FPS online.

Your comment on the DDR4 coming out is very helpful, as I was not aware of that. That is the type of feed back I am looking for.

I appreciate the helpful advise of "save some for a rainy day" but it really is not a concern. I just thought I was putting together a sick rig and wanted opinions on how to improve, brand wise and/or performance wise.
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January 25, 2013 6:36:21 PM

thebigguy1955 said:
It's not that i'm TRYING to spend as much as possible. It is just everyone came on and immediately said, save some money for upgrades later.
I have money for upgrades later! I just wanted suggestions and help as to if this rig would run the latest in games and games in the foreseeable future and give me some sick Registration and high FPS online.

Your comment on the DDR4 coming out is very helpful, as I was not aware of that. That is the type of feed back I am looking for.

I appreciate the helpful advise of "save some for a rainy day" but it really is not a concern. I just thought I was putting together a sick rig and wanted opinions on how to improve, brand wise and/or performance wise.


Fair enough. I understood from the last one what you meant :) .

So some up and comings are Haswell. Which starts a new socket. The Ivy bridge Proc was the last Proc for the 1155 socket. (not much updatability). Comes out in June
Link to some specifics http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haswell_%28microarchitectu...
One thing to note about Haswell since it's a new socket. You can upgrade to the next Proc (Broadwell) when it comes out and keep the same Mobo. Like some people did with Sandy Bridge to Ivy Bridge.

DDR4 (most likely around the time haswell drops) Now with current ram. As you were talking about above. IF you build now. Stick to 1600. There is no "visable" performance gain from 1600 - >(in gaming). Also stick with 8 GB for now for the same reason. UNLESS you will be doing video editing, 3d rendering etc. Thats where something like an i7, loads of ram and high ram speed will help a lot.
IF you do go with a lot of ram. Be sure you pick the correct OS. For instance.
Windows 7 Home only supports 16 GB regardless if your mobo supports more. Here is a link to the Memory Limits for windows.
http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/windows/desktop...

Ati/AMD 8,XXX series cards are coming out soon as well. So I'd assume that it will be followed closely by another series of Nvidia cards coming out.

For the psu toms just released a nice article. http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/power-supply-oem-ma...
That will help you get a quality PSU.

All i can think of for now. Hope it's helpful!
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January 25, 2013 6:37:26 PM

Or perhaps I should have just phrased it this way....

If you had $2500 to $3000 to put into a gaming rig and $1000 a year to keep it up to date, what would your get? :) 


Edit - Unoriginal1 you posted at the same time I wrote this so I'll add it here - what about 3d gaming - i7 better?
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January 25, 2013 6:50:01 PM

thebigguy1955 said:
Or perhaps I should have just phrased it this way....

If you had $2500 to $3000 to put into a gaming rig and $1000 a year to keep it up to date, what would your get? :) 


Edit - Unoriginal1 you posted at the same time I wrote this so I'll add it here - what about 3d gaming - i7 better?


As far as 3d gaming. No idea... Not that much a graphics junkie. Bigshooter would be a good one to ask if you see him around. Him and a few others are good at graphics. Im not sure what 3d gaming stresses (gpu, cpu etc).

If I had that much to spend I would wait for haswell. Build around their i5, probably get a GTX 680 (if the new series of cards hasn't come out) and throw in a nice custom loop water cooled system. But thats just me. Weigh your needs and wants :p . Do you want and need a system now? If so do an Ivy bridge build. If you can wait. Then wait for Haswell. Either way. With that budget your going to end up having a kickass system.

*edit* and my apologies on going through the rants of save money for upgrades later. There are A LOT of posters on here with strict budgets that spend spend spend so unwisely who don't have your upgrade ability for the future.
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January 25, 2013 7:12:37 PM

ROFLMAO!! Got your attention? You asked for advice but didn't really appear to want it - not necessarily a bad thing. This is all part of research and you're doing it.

One of the points missed was "down grading" the CPU/board to dual channel rather than 4. Some of these guys here actually know what they're talking about. We're talking about saving a big wad of cash when spending it yields little rewards - sometimes actually downgrades performance, not that it is actually noticeable. Read yesterday's article on FX vs i7 bottlenecks. GET what it "says".

I understand your desire for 2xPICe16 lanes rather than 8/8 or 16/8... but 3.0 is new now. Give it a bit... get your feet wet, too. They're only taking about investing your money where it counts not blowing the budget just to say.. "hey guess what I've got!" Throwing money at a "problem" isn't always the best solution.

Yeah, get a fast chip/board and memory. Get a high end graphics card.. maybe 2 if you're not happy with 1. GET quality parts - absolutely, first and foremost. You also said you'll upgrade later.. well, later comes. and keep the damn thing cool! Transfer as many parts as you can.. and read a ton of reviews then read more. Also realize that as time passes you will notice a point of diminishing returns. When is enough enough? You can drive a Ferrari to the grocery store but where are you gonna put the groceries??

Best of luck. BTW what kind, size and number of monitors are you going to use?
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January 25, 2013 7:15:48 PM

So you want a big system, here is what's what.

First priority is the monitor. For best gaming you want a big monitor, at a minimum one of those IPS 27inch 2560 X 1440, or a maxed out IPS 30 inch 2560 X 1600 one. Beyond that, if you have the space, get three monitors and place them end to end. Normally this is done with 1920 X 1080 monitors, but they are a bit shallow, I'd recommend 1920 X 1200's. Some monsters actually use three of those 27 or even 30 inch IPS monitors, but no graphics card can do them justice. Maybe a quad 680 or 7970 setup will work.

Second priority is graphics power. Even a lowly 1920 X 1080 can start to strain a 680 or 7970 with the most demanding games maxed out on the highest settings. Now if you are going with large or multiple monitors you need to SLI or CF some top cards.

Normally with 1920 X 1080 displays you can use a 670 or 7950 to save cash, for their big brothers wont give too much more performance for the extra $100. However, with the big displays, this extra power will make more of a difference.

In short, you will need dual 680s or 7970's to max out a 1920 X 1200 display and three or four to make the large monitors and multiple monitors dance to your demands.

For these large displays or multi monitors you will need more VRAM on your 680s, go for 4G.

Then the processor. Now the 3570K is the best bet, especially when overclocked to 4+GHZ. For some future proofing, get the 3770K since more and more games will start using the extra processor threads. In one or two years, the 3770K will be a necessity. As of now only one or two can use it fully.

For the mother board, you need one with extra PCI-E 3.0 bandwidth. This is accomplished with an PLX8747 chip. Normally motherboards only can put out X16 for the PCI-E interfaces so they can drive the following:

1 X 16
2 X 8
3 = 1 X 8 and 2 X 4
4 X 4

As you can see, a quad SLI will only have X4 speed that will slow it down. It does make a difference. AMD cards only slow a percent or so with X8 and X4 will reduce them five percent or so. Nvidia is more sensitive and X8 will slow them about 5% and X4 much more.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
This motherboard will give you
2X16 or
3 = 1X16 and 2X8
So you will have three fast lanes for up to three boards.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
This will give you four PCI-E 3.0 slots with the same performance as above with the additional option of
4 X 8

If you plan on going with a quad system, you need that 1200 W supply. I'd get a platinum one for it will run cooler and save power, which is a must if you have a good 1000W in your system.
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January 25, 2013 7:23:49 PM

I know I'm probably driving everyone nuts here, but I do appreciate the help (especially you, unoriginal1).

The Asus rampage iv extreme would run the LGA2011 socket which is placed in the high end / extreme performance range.

This would (theoretically) give it a bit more longevity, correct?

I have no problem selling the whole thing off in a couple years to rebuild. I actually plan to upgrade everything I can every year until the board starts sliding down the quality ladder, then selling before it becomes a "mid-range" mobo. I guess, now that we've all broken it down so much, it comes down to the board. Does it have good projected longevity?
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January 25, 2013 7:30:14 PM

thebigguy1955 said:
I know I'm probably driving everyone nuts here, but I do appreciate the help (especially you, unoriginal1).

The Asus rampage iv extreme would run the LGA2011 socket which is placed in the high end / extreme performance range.

This would (theoretically) give it a bit more longevity, correct?

I have no problem selling the whole thing off in a couple years to rebuild. I actually plan to upgrade everything I can every year until the board starts sliding down the quality ladder, then selling before it becomes a "mid-range" mobo. I guess, now that we've all broken it down so much, it comes down to the board. Does it have good projected longevity?

Yes, IB-E will release on LGA2011, which will last quite a while. If it does :\
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January 25, 2013 7:30:53 PM

thebigguy1955 said:
I know I'm probably driving everyone nuts here, but I do appreciate the help (especially you, unoriginal1).

The Asus rampage iv extreme would run the LGA2011 socket which is placed in the high end / extreme performance range.

This would (theoretically) give it a bit more longevity, correct?
?

In my opinion no.

"New sockets — LGA 1150 for desktops and rPGA947 & BGA1364 for the mobile market.[18] It is possible that Socket R3 will replace LGA 2011 for server Haswells"

From haswell. So your 2011 socket dies. Very soon. No "new" proc after june will fit it. So it becomes obsolete.

I'd focus on what babernet_1 is talking about with your displays. He gives a pretty good explanation. What are you planning on that end anyways? Start there. that will tell you what board your looking for, cards, etc. Since you'll need certain things to drive multiple displays or 3d. I'm still interested in someone posting about whats best for 3d graphics. Half tempted to just start researching myself.

No problem on the help. lol kinda feel like I'm shooting down a lot of your ideas. Not meaning to :p .
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January 25, 2013 7:33:38 PM

2wenty said:
Yes, IB-E will release on LGA2011, which will last quite a while.


Good call. I stand corrected.
Keep in mind this will probably be close to $1000... Just sayin :p 
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January 25, 2013 7:44:43 PM

Do not bother with the Haswell or the 2011 sockets. Here is why:

Haswell is aimed at the lower power market. It will have about 10% more computing power per clock cycle, not enough to put on Facebook. It is not worth waiting six months for. It will be lower in power, but what good is 20W of savings if you have to wait six months?

2011 sockets. Tom's Hardware just did a review of processors and found that increasing the RAM speed of the Ivy Bridge had ZERO change in performance. That is because Intel came up with an excellent cache system and the processor works off the internal cache for most all gaming applications. The 2011 has double RAM throughput. This will do zero for game performance for the foreseeable future. The extra RAM thoughput is for different applications, like simulation or encrypting.
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January 25, 2013 7:48:27 PM

I appreciate the help, even (or perhaps especially) if it makes me redo the whole thing.
I want the most for my money and not have to swap out the board anytime "too" soon.
For the display I was looking at a singe 27" 2560x1440 samsung for now (the 2560x1600 are twice as much and it just doesn't seem worth it).
I know that is ironic considering the rig I proposed.
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January 25, 2013 8:00:30 PM

babernet_1 said:
Do not bother with the Haswell or the 2011 sockets. Here is why:

Haswell is aimed at the lower power market. It will have about 10% more computing power per clock cycle, not enough to put on Facebook. It is not worth waiting six months for. It will be lower in power, but what good is 20W of savings if you have to wait six months?

2011 sockets. Tom's Hardware just did a review of processors and found that increasing the RAM speed of the Ivy Bridge had ZERO change in performance. That is because Intel came up with an excellent cache system and the processor works off the internal cache for most all gaming applications. The 2011 has double RAM throughput. This will do zero for game performance for the foreseeable future. The extra RAM thoughput is for different applications, like simulation or encrypting.


So your recommending 3570K LGA1155?
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January 25, 2013 8:12:59 PM

Grasshopper is learning... me, too. thanks.
from above:
Then the processor. Now the 3570K is the best bet, especially when overclocked to 4+GHZ. For some future proofing, get the 3770K since more and more games will start using the extra processor threads. In one or two years, the 3770K will be a necessity. As of now only one or two can use it fully.
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January 25, 2013 8:14:04 PM

unoriginal1 said:
So your recommending 3570K LGA1155?


Per my original message, I'd go with the 3770K. It will probably pay off in the next year or two. Be sure you have some good cooling for it. Another issue is at high resolutions, like your 2560 X 1440 displays, the graphics will be far more important than the CPU. A 3770K will be fine.

Also, RAM. It is so cheap, I'd go with 16G. All you need is 8G, but with 16G you can make yourself a RAM disk that will really speed up things like internet browsing and you can use it for paging. I think I read a review where more than 8G will give you maybe 2% more performance in the most demanding game on the planet, so yeah, 16G would be nice at not much cost.
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January 25, 2013 8:24:54 PM

Suggestion to OP, how about just going down a cheaper Z77 route for now to help get the hang of things on your first build, and then try 2011/Haswell later when they're released (along with 7xx/9xxx GPUs) for an awesome build? You could carry over old parts and add newer ones as needed. It may not be the most cost efficient, but will (hopefully) allow for the most future proofing? I don't know, you seem keen to own a supercomputer, and this may be a way, or just wait completely until everything is released (if that's an option).
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January 25, 2013 9:01:09 PM

2wenty said:
Suggestion to OP, how about just going down a cheaper Z77 route for now to help get the hang of things on your first build, and then try 2011/Haswell later when they're released (along with 7xx/9xxx GPUs) for an awesome build? You could carry over old parts and add newer ones as needed. It may not be the most cost efficient, but will (hopefully) allow for the most future proofing? I don't know, you seem keen to own a supercomputer, and this may be a way, or just wait completely until everything is released (if that's an option).


Good idea, however . . .

Intel is coming out with Broadwell in the 2014 time frame with a stunning 14nm process.

Nividia & AMD are coming out with new video cards in the next month or two, but in another year or so they are due to have a large jump in processing power. You see? it never ends. I tried to avoid 7970 vs. 680 debate (680), but in just a month or so Nvidia is coming out with the successor to the 680. It may be worth it to wait for this. But I'd not wait six months. You can do a lot of living and game playing in six months. Oh, AMD will probably come out with its 8970 soon too. Again, perhaps worth waiting for if it comes soon.
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January 25, 2013 9:28:28 PM

Whatever you decide to do, I recommend that you do not get more than 2 GPU's in CF/SLI. The performance past 2 GPU's does not scale well. I would recommend that you wait 2-3 years before buying another set of GPU's.
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January 25, 2013 9:56:05 PM

After all the debate / advice.
This is what I'd recommend. OP has already stated that he is going to be upgrading on a yearly basis. Possibly spending at least $1000 to maintain a top level machine.

He has also stated he may completely sell the first build and start with a brand new one.

So if it were I. I'd go with a z77 board, paired with a 3570K just to get started. Use a GTX 680 (can carry to new build or can sell for upgrade to newer cards), 256 GB SSd (carries over to new build), Desired case (carries to new build), 1 TB HDD (storage and carries to new build) 8 or 16 GB ram. Babernet mentioned some quality reasons to go 16, however; i'd only go 8 for the first build since ddr4 is coming out soon.

Use this build for 6 months to 1 year and base your next build on Haswell / Broadwell which will share the same Socket. This would only be a Mobo, Proc, and Ram upgrade. Everything else can carry over (psu, GPU, ssd, hdd, case, OS, etc). Especially If he buys a RETAIL OS so that it can carry over as well. Then he can simply just part off / sell the Ivy bridge proc and board/ram. Which will still be in fairly high demand at that time and prolly fetch a decent price.

On your second build I'd go with the i7 pick up the HT like babernet stated as at that time it will just be starting to become a major player in gaming. (hopefully) and I agree with the above. Go with only a single GPU for now.

Just my .02 cents but that would get you started while being cost effective and getting parts for a new build later down the road.
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January 25, 2013 10:19:50 PM

http://www.guru3d.com/articles_pages/geforce_gtx_680_3_...

As you can see, with the newest, most demanding games at high resolutions, triple SLI/CF is good.

Should it be me, I'd wait a month and get two of those 780's from Nvidia, plus the enhanced PCI-E motherboards I wrote about. As graphics becomes more and more challenging, the PCI-E bus will be challenged more and more.

One reason tri and quad don't work so well is the review is done on a non-enhanced motherboard so all the graphics cards are running on X4 speed. No wonder.

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January 25, 2013 10:55:52 PM

OK, I think I've got a better handle on what I want/need to make a killer machine without spending so much.
I like that Gigabyte G1.Sniper board suggested above with the 3770K cpu.
I'll stick with my original Geforce 680 4gb vid card (any suggestions on which one, I was going Asus just cause I was going with the Asus board, but I've thrown it all out he window now!) and 700W psu (I actually have a OCZ ModXStream Pro700 - good?).

On the RAM - should I go 4x4GB or 2X8gb to make up the 16GB. I noticed the latency of 4GB RAM tend to be lower......
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Best solution

January 25, 2013 11:17:32 PM

Power supply, meh. However, if you already have it!!! that's great. Should see you through a SLI setup if needed. It is quite inefficient, burning 114Watts when outputting 700 watts. For your next power supply, get a platinum one, it will burn only 61 watts.

For gaming, 16GB will be fine for the foreseeable future. Go with the 4X4. Normally you want to leave two slots open for future enhancements, but at 16G, you are already there.

Note, I read somewhere, if you make a ramdisk, make sure it is LESS than half of your RAM, otherwise you get weird errors.

Read up on Ramdisks, cool things you don't hear much about, especially now that RAM is so cheap.

http://www.ghacks.net/2007/04/18/use-a-ramdisk-to-speed...
this will get your feet wet.
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January 29, 2013 1:52:39 PM

I want to thank everyone for their input (and saving me a little cash).
I'll be putting my new PC together this weekend!
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January 29, 2013 1:52:50 PM

Best answer selected by thebigguy1955.
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