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Canon 5D: So it's real. And by the spec, looks very good.

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Anonymous
August 23, 2005 8:35:35 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos5d/

While not "cheap" at an MSRP of US$3300, the 2 Lb 5D does promise a
lot:

Finally a spot meter.
Full frame.
Large monitor.
0.3EV ISO steps.

A few "odd" things:
6 "invisible assist AF points" within the spot meter circle...
1/200 sync. (v. 1/250 in the 20D, not that important).
Viewfinder is 0.71x, but considering "full frame" that's
understandable, should be bright.
Dumped the AF assist light (or was it via the built
in flash in the 20D?)
3 fps v 5 in the 20D. (Proving again that high fps is not
that important)

Sample images from the source:
http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos5d/eos5d_sample-e.html

So? Which D60/20D/10D shooters are feeling temptation... when the
price inneviably falls under $3K ... $2.5K ... do you leap?

Bret I bet.

Cheers,
Alan
--
-- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
-- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
-- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
-- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.

More about : canon real spec good

August 24, 2005 2:26:33 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan1browne@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124840135.018325.321150@o13g2000cwo.googlegroups.com...
> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos5d/
>
> While not "cheap" at an MSRP of US$3300, the 2 Lb 5D does promise a
> lot:
>
> Finally a spot meter.
> Full frame.
> Large monitor.
> 0.3EV ISO steps.
>
> A few "odd" things:
> 6 "invisible assist AF points" within the spot meter circle...
> 1/200 sync. (v. 1/250 in the 20D, not that important).
> Viewfinder is 0.71x, but considering "full frame" that's
> understandable, should be bright.
> Dumped the AF assist light (or was it via the built
> in flash in the 20D?)
> 3 fps v 5 in the 20D. (Proving again that high fps is not
> that important)

What a lower fps rate on a higher resolution camera (50% higher)
proves is that memory cost would result in a significantly higher
price and likely limit the camera's appeal to a much broader market
most of which isn't professional sports photographers.

>
> Sample images from the source:
> http://web.canon.jp/Imaging/eos5d/eos5d_sample-e.html
>
> So? Which D60/20D/10D shooters are feeling temptation... when the
> price inneviably falls under $3K ... $2.5K ... do you leap?
>
> Bret I bet.
>
> Cheers,
> Alan
> --
> -- r.p.e.35mm user resource: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpe35mmur.htm
> -- r.p.d.slr-systems: http://www.aliasimages.com/rpdslrsysur.htm
> -- [SI] gallery & rulz: http://www.pbase.com/shootin
> -- e-meil: Remove FreeLunch.
>
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 4:28:10 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> What a lower fps rate on a higher resolution camera (50% higher)
> proves is that memory cost would result in a significantly higher
> price and likely limit the camera's appeal to a much broader market
> most of which isn't professional sports photographers.

I find that hard to believe, as memory is so cheap that compared to the
camera's price, it's near negligible. For someone like Canon, who purchases
in quanitity, a gigabyte of memory wouldn't cost them more than $50 - and
probably less. My guess would be that it's size-related, as in a camera
that small, every 1/2 square inch on the PCB is precious...

steve
Related resources
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 5:13:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Alan Browne" <alan1browne@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> Dumped the AF assist light (or was it via the built
> in flash in the 20D?)

nope, it's a separate device on the 20d.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 7:15:48 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Steve Wolfe" <unt@codon.com> wrote in message
news:3n2iihF1936skU1@individual.net...
> I find that hard to believe, as

Slow

> memory is so cheap that compared to the camera's price, it's near
> negligible. For someone like Canon, who purchases in quanitity, a
> gigabyte of memory wouldn't cost them more than $50 - and probably less.
> My guess would be that it's size-related, as in a camera that small, every
> 1/2 square inch on the PCB is precious...

Fast memory might cost a whole lot more, or the bus required to support
a larger cache of memory might the limitation. In either case, it's not
commodity memory.

Dave
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 7:24:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Alan Browne wrote:
> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos5d/
>
> While not "cheap" at an MSRP of US$3300, the 2 Lb 5D does promise a
> lot:
>
> Finally a spot meter.
> Full frame.
> Large monitor.
> 0.3EV ISO steps.
>
> A few "odd" things:
> 6 "invisible assist AF points" within the spot meter circle...
> 1/200 sync. (v. 1/250 in the 20D, not that important).
> Viewfinder is 0.71x, but considering "full frame" that's
> understandable, should be bright.
> Dumped the AF assist light (or was it via the built
> in flash in the 20D?)
> 3 fps v 5 in the 20D. (Proving again that high fps is not
> that important)
>

Was it really necessary to kill the onboard flash? Seems like an
*afforadable* FF dSLR (when the price drops) but has it been crippled
with 3fps rate and lack of AF assist? Will photo journalists be ok with
that low frame rate?

And where is the movie mode? ;-)

- Siddhartha
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 8:00:26 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Steve Franklin wrote:
> > And where is the movie mode? ;-)
> > - Siddhartha
>
>
>
> You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I would love
> to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the camera any less
> serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
>
> In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any dSlr
>
> I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a few
> little movies and send them...

I don't have any puritanistic arguements against more consumer grade
features in dSLRs but I don't think that the current electronics can
handle 30fps from a full-frame or even a APS-C sized sensor. Maybe a
new breed of microprocessors like the cell technology from IBM will
make it possible.

- Siddhartha
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 9:55:34 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David Geesaman wrote:
> "Steve Franklin" <honkey@lips.com> wrote in message
> news:430c51bf$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
> >
> >> And where is the movie mode? ;-)
> >> - Siddhartha
> >
> > You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I would
> > love to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the camera any
> > less serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
> >
> > In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any dSlr
> >
> > I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a few
> > little movies and send them...
>
> Tis true. Like leather in a truck, it's an unlikely thing to love.
>
> Anyway, I have a feeling that the mechanical shutter, combined with a
> sensor setup that maximizes data collection from the full frame at one time,
> makes a downsampled movie mode much harder to integrate.

Why not put another small CCD/CMOS sensor that moves in place between
the mirror and viewfinder's optical path when the movie mode is
switched on? Just wondering aloud, don't really know much about dSLR
construction.

- Siddhartha
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 12:46:57 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

David Geesaman wrote:
> "Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1124888133.985060.277570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Why not put another small CCD/CMOS sensor that moves in place between
> > the mirror and viewfinder's optical path when the movie mode is
> > switched on? Just wondering aloud, don't really know much about dSLR
> > construction.
>
> Because it would probably be much more cost effective to pocket a P&S
> camera instead. :o )
>
> Dave

Not sure about cost effectiveness but sure lets you sell a dSLR, P&S
and handycam to the same guy ;-)

- Siddhartha
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 1:22:53 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124888133.985060.277570@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Why not put another small CCD/CMOS sensor that moves in place between
> the mirror and viewfinder's optical path when the movie mode is
> switched on? Just wondering aloud, don't really know much about dSLR
> construction.

Because it would probably be much more cost effective to pocket a P&S
camera instead. :o )

Dave
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 5:46:19 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

george wrote:

> What a lower fps rate on a higher resolution camera (50% higher)
> proves is that memory cost would result in a significantly higher
> price and likely limit the camera's appeal to a much broader market
> most of which isn't professional sports photographers.

No, what it proves is that the small extra cost for more high speed
buffer memory would result in decreased sales for much more expensive
Canon models.
Anonymous
August 24, 2005 11:30:11 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <430c51bf$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Steve Franklin
<honkey@lips.com> writes
>
>> And where is the movie mode? ;-)
>> - Siddhartha
>
>
>
>You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I would love
>to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the camera any less
>serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
>
>In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any dSlr
>
>I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a few
>little movies and send them...
>
>
It should also help to solve my problems in getting precise focussing in
using my 10D for photomicrography. With a poor screen (for manual
focussing) and the inability to open the shutter to focus from the DV
output, it really isn't as useful as it ideally should be.

David
--
David Littlewood
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 12:29:41 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message

> Was it really necessary to kill the onboard flash?

YES! Finally you don't have to pay for something you'll never use.


--
Mark

Photos, Ideas & Opinions
http://www.marklauter.com
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 12:54:03 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

> And where is the movie mode? ;-)
> - Siddhartha



You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I would love
to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the camera any less
serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....

In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any dSlr

I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a few
little movies and send them...
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 12:54:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Steve Franklin" <honkey@lips.com> wrote in message
news:430c51bf$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
>
>> And where is the movie mode? ;-)
>> - Siddhartha
>
> You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I would
> love to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the camera any
> less serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
>
> In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any dSlr
>
> I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a few
> little movies and send them...

Tis true. Like leather in a truck, it's an unlikely thing to love.

Anyway, I have a feeling that the mechanical shutter, combined with a
sensor setup that maximizes data collection from the full frame at one time,
makes a downsampled movie mode much harder to integrate.

Dave
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 1:17:49 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124879044.342334.47320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Alan Browne wrote:
>> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos5d/
>>
>> While not "cheap" at an MSRP of US$3300, the 2 Lb 5D does promise a
>> lot:
>>
>> Finally a spot meter.
>> Full frame.
>> Large monitor.
>> 0.3EV ISO steps.
>>
>> A few "odd" things:
>> 6 "invisible assist AF points" within the spot meter circle...
>> 1/200 sync. (v. 1/250 in the 20D, not that important).
>> Viewfinder is 0.71x, but considering "full frame" that's
>> understandable, should be bright.
>> Dumped the AF assist light (or was it via the built
>> in flash in the 20D?)
>> 3 fps v 5 in the 20D. (Proving again that high fps is not
>> that important)
>>
>
> Was it really necessary to kill the onboard flash? Seems like an
> *afforadable* FF dSLR (when the price drops) but has it been crippled
> with 3fps rate and lack of AF assist? Will photo journalists be ok with
> that low frame rate?
>
> And where is the movie mode? ;-)
>
> - Siddhartha
>
Onboard flash may have affected the viewfinder coverage, and most of the
users won't miss it, we have shoe mount or off camera flashes, anyway.
Frame rate is similar to 1Ds mkII, so that may be a function of the sensor
size, not a "crippling." Canon probably feels it doesn't need AF assist,
if you're shooting in low light, you'll probably have either a fast lens, or
a flash mounted. Canon's flashes have their own AF assist lights, and
better ones than are on the cameras. That being said, the old A2 had a very
nice AF assist light, near IR, that worked very well. Canon hasn't produced
one as nice since.
And don't expect the price to drop much, or soon. Look at the price of the
1Ds mkII, not much change there, percentage wise, the 1D mkII has dropped,
what, 200 bucks? 5%? As has the 20D, a year after its intro.

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 1:19:04 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:fd9dZVKzyLDDFwdQ@dlittlewood.co.uk...
> In article <430c51bf$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Steve Franklin
> <honkey@lips.com> writes
>>
>>> And where is the movie mode? ;-)
>>> - Siddhartha
>>
>>
>>
>>You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I would
>>love
>>to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the camera any less
>>serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
>>
>>In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any dSlr
>>
>>I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a few
>>little movies and send them...
>>
>>
> It should also help to solve my problems in getting precise focussing in
> using my 10D for photomicrography. With a poor screen (for manual
> focussing) and the inability to open the shutter to focus from the DV
> output, it really isn't as useful as it ideally should be.
>
> David
> --
> David Littlewood

The 5D is supposed to have an optional screen made for critical focusing...

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 6:44:21 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Skip M wrote:
> "Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1124879044.342334.47320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Alan Browne wrote:
> >> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos5d/
> >>
> >> While not "cheap" at an MSRP of US$3300, the 2 Lb 5D does promise a
> >> lot:
> >>
> >> Finally a spot meter.
> >> Full frame.
> >> Large monitor.
> >> 0.3EV ISO steps.
> >>
> >> A few "odd" things:
> >> 6 "invisible assist AF points" within the spot meter circle...
> >> 1/200 sync. (v. 1/250 in the 20D, not that important).
> >> Viewfinder is 0.71x, but considering "full frame" that's
> >> understandable, should be bright.
> >> Dumped the AF assist light (or was it via the built
> >> in flash in the 20D?)
> >> 3 fps v 5 in the 20D. (Proving again that high fps is not
> >> that important)
> >>
> >
> > Was it really necessary to kill the onboard flash? Seems like an
> > *afforadable* FF dSLR (when the price drops) but has it been crippled
> > with 3fps rate and lack of AF assist? Will photo journalists be ok with
> > that low frame rate?
> >
> > And where is the movie mode? ;-)
> >
> > - Siddhartha
> >
> Onboard flash may have affected the viewfinder coverage, and most of the
> users won't miss it, we have shoe mount or off camera flashes, anyway.
> Frame rate is similar to 1Ds mkII, so that may be a function of the sensor
> size, not a "crippling." Canon probably feels it doesn't need AF assist,
> if you're shooting in low light, you'll probably have either a fast lens, or
> a flash mounted. Canon's flashes have their own AF assist lights, and
> better ones than are on the cameras. That being said, the old A2 had a very
> nice AF assist light, near IR, that worked very well. Canon hasn't produced
> one as nice since.

After owning a dSLR for a year, I found my preference is to enjoy the
flexibility offered by a dSLR alongwith the superior low-noise sensor
but without carrying too much baggage around. So no onboard flash means
no flash for me as I am very less likely to carry an external flash
around.

Ofcourse, your usage and preferences may vary.

- Siddhartha
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:13:39 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Beach Bum wrote:
> "Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
>> Was it really necessary to kill the onboard flash?
>
> YES! Finally you don't have to pay for something you'll never use.

I was wondering how they got the price so low. :-)

-Mike
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 4:33:42 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <TEbPe.2493$sw6.523@fed1read05>, Skip M
<shadowcatcher@cox.net> writes
>"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>news:fd9dZVKzyLDDFwdQ@dlittlewood.co.uk...
>> In article <430c51bf$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Steve Franklin
>> <honkey@lips.com> writes
>>>
>>>> And where is the movie mode? ;-)
>>>> - Siddhartha
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I would
>>>love
>>>to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the camera any less
>>>serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
>>>
>>>In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any dSlr
>>>
>>>I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a few
>>>little movies and send them...
>>>
>>>
>> It should also help to solve my problems in getting precise focussing in
>> using my 10D for photomicrography. With a poor screen (for manual
>> focussing) and the inability to open the shutter to focus from the DV
>> output, it really isn't as useful as it ideally should be.
>>
>> David
>> --
>> David Littlewood
>
>The 5D is supposed to have an optional screen made for critical focusing...
>
Yes, I saw that. However, they mention (IIRC) a choice of 3, and I have
a nasty feeling they will be something with split image wedges and
microprisms. These are in my experience little better; what is required
for critical focus in the kind of applications I have in mind is the old
"I" screen, with a clear centre spot and cross hair. This is the only
one which is really satisfactory on my 1n.

Also, the advantage of focussing from the sensor is that it eliminates
any possible errors from misalignment between the sensor and the
focussing screen. The disadvantage may be lower resolution of the video
output.

At the moment, all too often, I have to fiddle around with focus
bracketing. The margin for error in photomicrography is as near zero as
makes no odds.

David
--
David Littlewood
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 11:02:22 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In the "white paper:"
http://www.robgalbraith.com/public_files/Canon_EOS_5D_W...
it shows all three screens, the Ee-S Sharp focusing Screen shows not split
image, and the write up says it has "finer microlenses than other two types,
meant for lenses f2.8 or faster, with a steeper-than-normal parabola of
focus for easier manual focusing."

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
news:1fU3J$EWyaDDFwJF@dlittlewood.co.uk...
> In article <TEbPe.2493$sw6.523@fed1read05>, Skip M <shadowcatcher@cox.net>
> writes
>>"David Littlewood" <david@nospam.demon.co.uk> wrote in message
>>news:fd9dZVKzyLDDFwdQ@dlittlewood.co.uk...
>>> In article <430c51bf$1@dnews.tpgi.com.au>, Steve Franklin
>>> <honkey@lips.com> writes
>>>>
>>>>> And where is the movie mode? ;-)
>>>>> - Siddhartha
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I would
>>>>love
>>>>to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the camera any less
>>>>serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
>>>>
>>>>In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any
>>>>dSlr
>>>>
>>>>I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a
>>>>few
>>>>little movies and send them...
>>>>
>>>>
>>> It should also help to solve my problems in getting precise focussing in
>>> using my 10D for photomicrography. With a poor screen (for manual
>>> focussing) and the inability to open the shutter to focus from the DV
>>> output, it really isn't as useful as it ideally should be.
>>>
>>> David
>>> --
>>> David Littlewood
>>
>>The 5D is supposed to have an optional screen made for critical
>>focusing...
>>
> Yes, I saw that. However, they mention (IIRC) a choice of 3, and I have a
> nasty feeling they will be something with split image wedges and
> microprisms. These are in my experience little better; what is required
> for critical focus in the kind of applications I have in mind is the old
> "I" screen, with a clear centre spot and cross hair. This is the only one
> which is really satisfactory on my 1n.
>
> Also, the advantage of focussing from the sensor is that it eliminates any
> possible errors from misalignment between the sensor and the focussing
> screen. The disadvantage may be lower resolution of the video output.
>
> At the moment, all too often, I have to fiddle around with focus
> bracketing. The margin for error in photomicrography is as near zero as
> makes no odds.
>
> David
> --
> David Littlewood
Anonymous
August 25, 2005 11:05:09 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:1124963061.601577.57680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Skip M wrote:
>> "Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:1124879044.342334.47320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> > Alan Browne wrote:
>> >> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos5d/
>> >>
>> >> While not "cheap" at an MSRP of US$3300, the 2 Lb 5D does promise a
>> >> lot:
>> >>
>> >> Finally a spot meter.
>> >> Full frame.
>> >> Large monitor.
>> >> 0.3EV ISO steps.
>> >>
>> >> A few "odd" things:
>> >> 6 "invisible assist AF points" within the spot meter circle...
>> >> 1/200 sync. (v. 1/250 in the 20D, not that important).
>> >> Viewfinder is 0.71x, but considering "full frame" that's
>> >> understandable, should be bright.
>> >> Dumped the AF assist light (or was it via the built
>> >> in flash in the 20D?)
>> >> 3 fps v 5 in the 20D. (Proving again that high fps is not
>> >> that important)
>> >>
>> >
>> > Was it really necessary to kill the onboard flash? Seems like an
>> > *afforadable* FF dSLR (when the price drops) but has it been crippled
>> > with 3fps rate and lack of AF assist? Will photo journalists be ok with
>> > that low frame rate?
>> >
>> > And where is the movie mode? ;-)
>> >
>> > - Siddhartha
>> >
>> Onboard flash may have affected the viewfinder coverage, and most of the
>> users won't miss it, we have shoe mount or off camera flashes, anyway.
>> Frame rate is similar to 1Ds mkII, so that may be a function of the
>> sensor
>> size, not a "crippling." Canon probably feels it doesn't need AF
>> assist,
>> if you're shooting in low light, you'll probably have either a fast lens,
>> or
>> a flash mounted. Canon's flashes have their own AF assist lights, and
>> better ones than are on the cameras. That being said, the old A2 had a
>> very
>> nice AF assist light, near IR, that worked very well. Canon hasn't
>> produced
>> one as nice since.
>
> After owning a dSLR for a year, I found my preference is to enjoy the
> flexibility offered by a dSLR alongwith the superior low-noise sensor
> but without carrying too much baggage around. So no onboard flash means
> no flash for me as I am very less likely to carry an external flash
> around.
>
> Ofcourse, your usage and preferences may vary.
>
> - Siddhartha
>
I have a Tamron 519 top loader, the camera fits neatly in it, and the 420EX
flash fits equally neatly in the outside pocket, with its attendant
Lumiquest Pocket Bounce. The weight difference is negligible, and in going
without a flash, aren't you going without some of the flexibility, too?

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
August 26, 2005 6:27:50 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Skip M wrote:
> "Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:1124963061.601577.57680@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> > Skip M wrote:
> >> "Siddhartha Jain" <reach.siddhartha@gmail.com> wrote in message
> >> news:1124879044.342334.47320@g47g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> >> > Alan Browne wrote:
> >> >> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/canoneos5d/
> >> >>
> >> >> While not "cheap" at an MSRP of US$3300, the 2 Lb 5D does promise a
> >> >> lot:
> >> >>
> >> >> Finally a spot meter.
> >> >> Full frame.
> >> >> Large monitor.
> >> >> 0.3EV ISO steps.
> >> >>
> >> >> A few "odd" things:
> >> >> 6 "invisible assist AF points" within the spot meter circle...
> >> >> 1/200 sync. (v. 1/250 in the 20D, not that important).
> >> >> Viewfinder is 0.71x, but considering "full frame" that's
> >> >> understandable, should be bright.
> >> >> Dumped the AF assist light (or was it via the built
> >> >> in flash in the 20D?)
> >> >> 3 fps v 5 in the 20D. (Proving again that high fps is not
> >> >> that important)
> >> >>
> >> >
> >> > Was it really necessary to kill the onboard flash? Seems like an
> >> > *afforadable* FF dSLR (when the price drops) but has it been crippled
> >> > with 3fps rate and lack of AF assist? Will photo journalists be ok with
> >> > that low frame rate?
> >> >
> >> > And where is the movie mode? ;-)
> >> >
> >> > - Siddhartha
> >> >
> >> Onboard flash may have affected the viewfinder coverage, and most of the
> >> users won't miss it, we have shoe mount or off camera flashes, anyway.
> >> Frame rate is similar to 1Ds mkII, so that may be a function of the
> >> sensor
> >> size, not a "crippling." Canon probably feels it doesn't need AF
> >> assist,
> >> if you're shooting in low light, you'll probably have either a fast lens,
> >> or
> >> a flash mounted. Canon's flashes have their own AF assist lights, and
> >> better ones than are on the cameras. That being said, the old A2 had a
> >> very
> >> nice AF assist light, near IR, that worked very well. Canon hasn't
> >> produced
> >> one as nice since.
> >
> > After owning a dSLR for a year, I found my preference is to enjoy the
> > flexibility offered by a dSLR alongwith the superior low-noise sensor
> > but without carrying too much baggage around. So no onboard flash means
> > no flash for me as I am very less likely to carry an external flash
> > around.
> >
> > Ofcourse, your usage and preferences may vary.
> >
> > - Siddhartha
> >
> I have a Tamron 519 top loader, the camera fits neatly in it, and the 420EX
> flash fits equally neatly in the outside pocket, with its attendant
> Lumiquest Pocket Bounce. The weight difference is negligible, and in going
> without a flash, aren't you going without some of the flexibility, too?

Don't get me started on dSLR bags ;-) I agree that my 300D's onboard
flash has very limited capabilities (other than stunning the subjects)
but I like to travel as light as possible. So yes, I am sacrificing
some flexibility for convenience. As a sidenote, the Leica Digilux 2
has a cool onboard flash that other manufacturers can copy.

- Siddhartha
August 26, 2005 1:50:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I'd like to see the size of the AF sensors, hopefully not the oversized ones
of the 10D, and multi-spot metering (maybe this could be a software
add-on?).
..
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 10:20:27 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Steve Wolfe wrote:

> > What a lower fps rate on a higher resolution camera (50% higher)
> > proves is that memory cost would result in a significantly higher
> > price and likely limit the camera's appeal to a much broader market
> > most of which isn't professional sports photographers.
>
> I find that hard to believe, as memory is so cheap that compared to
> the camera's price, it's near negligible. For someone like Canon,
> who purchases in quanitity, a gigabyte of memory wouldn't cost them
> more than $50 - and probably less. My guess would be that it's
> size-related, as in a camera that small, every 1/2 square inch on the
> PCB is precious...

My guess is that they wanted to keep the features distant enough from
the 1D models so as not to erode sales of the higher-priced camera.

--
Albert Nurick | Nurick + Associates - Web Design
albert@nurick.com | eCommerce - Content Management
www.nurick.com | Web Applications - Hosting
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 10:24:12 AM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Steve Franklin wrote:

> > And where is the movie mode? ;-)
> > - Siddhartha
>
> You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I
> would love to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the
> camera any less serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
>
> In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any
> dSlr
>
> I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a
> few little movies and send them...

I agree. I use the movie mode on my Sony 828 on a regular basis; it's
great for making short clips for web sites.

I'm looking forward to a camera that merges what's great about the
Canon DSLRs (great image quality, low noise at high ISOs, 3+ fps
shooting, interchangable lenses) with what's great about the Sony 828
(30fps movie mode, impressive Night Framing mode, and (gasp) framing on
the LCD.

It's just a matter of time. Heck, I remember when the nay-sayers were
ranting that digital cameras would never displace film for professional
shooters. :-O

--
Albert Nurick | Nurick + Associates - Web Design
albert@nurick.com | eCommerce - Content Management
www.nurick.com | Web Applications - Hosting
Anonymous
August 30, 2005 8:12:28 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

"Albert Nurick" <albert@nurick.com> wrote in message
news:xn0e6lhqlmdgf2002@news-server.houston.rr.com...
> Steve Franklin wrote:
>
>> > And where is the movie mode? ;-)
>> > - Siddhartha
>>
>> You know....I know you probably said that tongue in cheek...but I
>> would love to have movie mode on the D70. To me it doesn't make the
>> camera any less serious....and it's a bloody handy thing to have....
>>
>> In fact, I would imagine that it would be huge selling point for any
>> dSlr
>>
>> I have a lot of friends overseas and would love to be able to shoot a
>> few little movies and send them...
>
> I agree. I use the movie mode on my Sony 828 on a regular basis; it's
> great for making short clips for web sites.
>
> I'm looking forward to a camera that merges what's great about the
> Canon DSLRs (great image quality, low noise at high ISOs, 3+ fps
> shooting, interchangable lenses) with what's great about the Sony 828
> (30fps movie mode, impressive Night Framing mode, and (gasp) framing on
> the LCD.
>
> It's just a matter of time. Heck, I remember when the nay-sayers were
> ranting that digital cameras would never displace film for professional
> shooters. :-O
>
> --
> Albert Nurick | Nurick + Associates - Web Design
> albert@nurick.com | eCommerce - Content Management
> www.nurick.com | Web Applications - Hosting

Yer gonna have a long long wait for all three of those on one camera. Movie
mode, maybe, but "Night framing mode" and framing on the LCD probably will
be non starters for a long, long time. The viewfinder does just fine, and
it would take a complete redesign of the camera to get the LCD to give you
live preview. The shutter/sensor/lens/back setup prevents this, and it
really is unnecessary when you use the viewfinder, which is less affected by
ambient light than an LCD would be. And, since it doesn't have pixels, is
more accurate, if somewhat smaller, for focus. So, if you've checked your
focus in the viewfinder, why do you want to frame it in the LCD, since it's
already framed in the viewfinder?

--
Skip Middleton
http://www.shadowcatcherimagery.com
Anonymous
September 2, 2005 1:43:38 PM

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

<snip>

> What a lower fps rate on a higher resolution camera (50% higher)

> proves is that memory cost would result in a significantly higher

> price and likely limit the camera's appeal to a much broader market

> most of which isn't professional sports photographers.

>

> >

<snip>

Except that the 5D already has a bucket of buffer memory. Regardless of the
acquisition rate you would still get the 60 jpeg/17 raw burst images.

The cost of a higher acquisition rate would revolve around:

More analog outputs on the CCD (probably not a huge expense)

More A/D converters [channels] (significant expense in $ and power)

Faster DIGIC (significant power consumption, possible heat issues)

Faster motors to recock the shutter/mirror (more power)

Most of these items would also result in additional volume/weight for the
camera.

My suspicion is that the camera was built to a price point with only a few
design givens (full frame, EOS 1 form factor, magnesium frame) and the
engineers added as many "professional" features as possible within those
constraints. The large number of images in a burst indicates that DDR SDRAM
is cheap. Spot metering is probably cheap to implement.

Instead of asking why they didn't put these things in, look at the minimal
differences between the 5D and the 1DmkII/n and wonder how they got the
price down so low.

Dean

BTW I also do not lament the loss of the built-in flash; I have a PS camera
when I need snapshots/redeye.
!