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First time build. Video Editing/ Gaming Rig

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January 27, 2013 6:02:48 PM


Approximate Purchase Date: Mid to end febuary.

Budget Range: $1500 or less after shipping.

System Usage from Most to Least Important: Gaming, Rendering and creating Youtube Videos, Watching hd youtube videos, Heavy internet browsing

Are you buying a monitor: No

Parts to Upgrade: N/A

Do you need to buy OS: Yes

Preferred Website(s) for Parts: Newegg, amazon, willing to go to other secure sites if product can be found cheaper.

Location: ArkLaTex area

Parts Preferences: Anything quality with a preferable price.

Overclocking: Maybe

SLI or Crossfire: Maybe

Your Monitor Resolution: 1920x1080

Additional Comments: This is my first build, I have been wanting to get a gaming rig for awhile and have been researching it for some time. I have found it is best to build them yourself. I know very little so any help is appreciated, I am hoping this will become a useful new hobby for me. I create gaming related videos for youtube and I would love for this to not only be able to optimally create the videos but play games for pc as well. As my first build I will be only testing it out and building a $1500 or less build and if I enjoy maybe go for a more extravagant build. I want merely functionality look isn't my priority. Thanks for your help. Also if you know of any tutorials on building I would love a link. I have seen a few so I think I have a fair idea of what to do and jumping right in is the best way to learn. Tips and tricks are appreciated.
January 27, 2013 6:12:32 PM

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H80i 77.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.50 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Crucial M4 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($107.95 @ Mac Connection)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: Sapphire Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($369.99 @ Newegg)
Case: NZXT Phantom 410 (Gunmetal/Black) ATX Mid Tower Case ($84.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Asus DRW-24B1ST/BLK/B/AS DVD/CD Writer ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Total: $1221.37
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 15:12 EST-0500)
January 27, 2013 6:29:47 PM

Noob12 said:
Other opinion..

PCPartPicker part list: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zV9o
Price breakdown by merchant: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zV9o/by_merchant/
Benchmarks: http://pcpartpicker.com/p/zV9o/benchmarks/

CPU: Intel Xeon E3-1230 V2 3.3GHz Quad-Core Processor ($233.98 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Best Buy)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-B75M-D3H Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Memory: G.Skill Ares Series 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($80.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($74.98 @ Outlet PC)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 128GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($139.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($359.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Fractal Design Define R4 (Black Pearl) ATX Mid Tower Case ($89.99 @ Microcenter)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 650W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($99.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1195.87
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 15:24 EST-0500)

If you have the money to build high quality X-79 2011 set..
It is highly recommended to do so.

It would be dumb to use a locked server CPU over a unlocked 3570k,3770k. Also, server CPU's don't really have any place in a gaming machine. B75 is also not for a $1000 PC... For $20 more the saphire 7970 is a smarter buy (powercooler = terrible support).
Related resources
January 27, 2013 7:37:25 PM

Noob12 said:
Sure B-75 is good choice if you do not overclock!

sapphire is no good. really. gigabyte and asus are much better than sapphire.
Everyone has their opinion. Here is one test of powercolors video card
http://www.fudzilla.com/home/item/26836-powercolor-pcs%...

one of the best cards made 7970 serie. :) 

An overclocked 3570k is way better than a xeon in gaming. If you are not going to overclock the H77 is the best (unless you are on a budget).
January 27, 2013 8:00:23 PM

Noob12 said:
Sure B-75 is good choice if you do not overclock!


Agreed. There's nothing wrong with b75 for a gaming rig at really any price point, unless you absolutely require overclocking support, Intel SRT cache technology, or support for an unusual amount of SATA drives. Of those three features, only overclocking has any direct relationship to gaming, and it's a pretty tenuous relationship.

Once upon a time, overclocking was something you did to wring high-end performance out of cheap components. Nowadays, at least on the Intel side, overclocking actually costs extra money: you need a very particular model of CPU (a 'K' part), a more expensive motherboard, and an aftermarket CPU cooler. If you genuinely enjoy overclocking, and don't mind spending the extra coin to do so, then more power to you, but a non-overclocked CPU can give you plenty of performance too. Depending on your hardware configuration, not overclocking (your CPU) might even give you more performance per dollar.

Anyway, if the OP does not want to overclock, I'd go with something like this, for a $1500 gaming/video rig:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($289.98 @ Amazon)
Motherboard: Asus P8B75-M/CSM Micro ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($78.24 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.78 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($109.99 @ Newegg)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($237.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($384.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec Three Hundred Two ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($78.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1484.88
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 16:37 EST-0500)

Pros - lots of storage (good for video) and redundancy, fast SSD for system disk, basically best-in-socket CPU performance, basically best-single-card GPU performance.

Cons - can't overclock, not a whole lot of room to work (micro-ATX motherboard), can't upgrade to Crossfire/SLI, can't read BluRay discs (which may or may not be a big deal if the OP is heavily involved with video editing; for gameplay videos it should be fine).

If the OP does want to experiment with overclocking, then he might go with something more like this:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($324.48 @ SuperBiiz)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 EVO 82.9 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($29.99 @ Best Buy)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Extreme4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($134.99 @ Microcenter)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.78 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Samsung 840 Pro Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($237.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($384.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Antec Three Hundred Two ATX Mid Tower Case ($69.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: SeaSonic 620W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($78.99 @ Amazon)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1496.13
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 16:59 EST-0500)

Pros - same as above, except it's also overclockable and it allows you the option to use a second graphics card in Crossfire in the future.

Con - less storage/redundancy, still can't read Blu Ray discs.
January 27, 2013 8:03:44 PM

I'm pretty sure fore $1500 he is going to want to overclock. That is why i highly disagree with the B75 and Xeon. And no B75 isn't bad, but H77 is for a higher budget. Although Z77 is a must for overclocking.
January 27, 2013 8:12:32 PM

blake1243 said:
I'm pretty sure fore $1500 he is going to want to overclock. That is why i highly disagree with the B75 and Xeon. And no B75 isn't bad, but H77 is for a higher budget. Although Z77 is a must for overclocking.


The OP said he might be interested in overclocking, which is why I included an overclockable (z77) build. But if he doesn't want to overclock, there's no obvious reason to dismiss b75 out of hand. It's meaningless simply to say, "X is for a higher budget," if you can't articulate exactly what X gives you that Y does not.

My only point was that high-end motherboards often offer features that most people will never use. If you do want to use a particular feature, then by all means, grab a motherboard that offers it -- but buying a more expensive motherboard just because you're willing to spend more on your build seems silly to me. Most people are better off putting that extra money elsewhere than they are buying features they're not interested in just in case.

In my experience building PCs over the last 15 years or so (not professionally, but still), by the time you're concerned about a just-in-case feature, you're usually better off buying a new system anyway.

All of that said, the OP seems to have a fairly high budget here, not just for this particular build but in general. He seems like he wants to experiment, so maybe just-in-case features are up his alley. If so, then he might even be better off springing for one of the really high-premium z77 boards. Who knows.
January 27, 2013 8:18:01 PM

For $1500 it wouldn't be very smart to not overclock.
January 27, 2013 8:25:51 PM

blake1243 said:
For $1500 it wouldn't be very smart to not overclock.


That's like saying that anyone who buys a Corvette would be an idiot not to fiddle with his engine. Absurd.

You can get plenty of performance out of stock parts at that price point, and in fact, the more money you're willing to throw at a build, the less important overclocking becomes in the grand scheme of things. Overclocking is something that enthusiasts do because they enjoy it; it's not something that offers such huge performance gains, and with so little effort, that everyone should feel obligated to do it.
January 27, 2013 8:36:59 PM

Fulgurant said:
That's like saying that anyone who buys a Corvette would be an idiot not to fiddle with his engine. Absurd.

You can get plenty of performance out of stock parts at that price point, and in fact, the more money you're willing to throw at a build, the less important overclocking becomes in the grand scheme of things. Overclocking is something that enthusiasts do because they enjoy it; it's not something that offers such huge performance gains, and with so little effort, that everyone should feel obligated to do it.

That was the worse comparison I have read on Tom's. Nowadays all he has to do is bump up a few numbers and bam, you the overclock. I'm not arguing anymore because I don't feel obligated to prove anything anymore. 3770k and Z77 seems like best combo for the OP.
January 27, 2013 8:50:59 PM

blake1243 said:
That was the worse comparison I have read on Tom's. Nowadays all he has to do is bump up a few numbers and bam, you the overclock. I'm not arguing anymore because I don't feel obligated to prove anything anymore. 3770k and Z77 seems like best combo for the OP.


How easy it is to overclock isn't relevant. The point is that $1500 buys you massive performance even at stock. Remember that we're talking about just the CPU here. Remember also that i5 and i7 processors come with a Turbo function that kicks in any time you have heavy load on fewer-than-four cores. Remember too that Ivy Bridge is hard to keep cool at higher voltages.

The bottom line is that you're not going to see a night-and-day performance increase, in practical terms, from overclocking the CPU unless you have a very specific (and very important) CPU-bound task in mind -- or unless you spend a lot of time/money/effort on the cooling solution. By the way, recommending a liquid cooler, closed-loop or not, to a first time builder seems asinine to me, but YMMV. It's not like a cheap closed loop cooler (like the one you recommended) even offers massive performance benefits over a similarly priced air cooler, these days.

Regardless, I happen to agree with you that z77 and 3770k are good possibilities for the OP, which is why one of the builds I suggested included those parts. You're the one who decided to make grand, sweeping statements about system building in general without supporting them. You're the one who decided to take the absurd, closed-minded-teenaged-enthusiast position that anyone who doesn't overclock is stupid.
January 27, 2013 8:56:38 PM

Fulgurant said:
How easy it is to overclock isn't relevant. The point is that $1500 buys you massive performance even at stock. Remember that we're talking about just the CPU here. Remember also that i5 and i7 processors come with a Turbo function that kicks in any time you have heavy load on fewer-than-four cores. Remember too that Ivy Bridge is hard to keep cool at higher voltages.

The bottom line is that you're not going to see a night-and-day performance increase, in practical terms, from overclocking the CPU unless you have a very specific (and very important) CPU-bound task in mind -- or unless you spend a lot of time/money/effort on the cooling solution. By the way, recommending a liquid cooler, closed-loop or not, to a first time builder seems asinine to me, but YMMV. It's not like a cheap closed loop cooler (like the one you recommended) even offers massive performance benefits over a similarly priced air cooler, these days.

Regardless, I happen to agree with you that z77 and 3770k are good possibilities for the OP, which is why one of the builds I suggested included those parts. You're the one who decided to make grand, sweeping statements about system building in general without supporting them. You're the one who decided to take the absurd, closed-minded-teenaged-enthusiast position that anyone who doesn't overclock is stupid.

Now you are just trying to continue the argument. And in games like Skyrim you can sqeeze out about 20-30 fps from overclocking, seems like a significant performance increase to me.
January 27, 2013 9:01:44 PM

Noob12 said:
You can't prove anything. That's the point here. You can not argue about the facts. Now it would be god time to pull your head out of your ass :D 

No offense, but just because you have someone going against me doesn't make you right. I am not the one who comes on here and recommends a server CPU and a B75 motherboard, in a $1500 build.... I see your posts on here and it just makes me wonder... you just put together stuff without actually KNOWING what each part is.. I hate being an ass to people but seriously you can't just sit here and stand behind someone like you actually have something to get out of it. Telling someone to pull there head out of there ass when they don't know what they are talking about is just plain ignorant. Why don't you just stop replying, and find something better to do.
January 27, 2013 9:06:20 PM

Lemme try and pull something together.. Gimme a sec.
January 27, 2013 9:06:51 PM

blake1243 said:
Now you are just trying to continue the argument. And in games like Skyrim you can sqeeze out about 20-30 fps from overclocking, seems like a significant performance increase to me.


An argument you started. An argument that you seem intent to continue even after you said you were done.

Skyrim? You mean the game that requires vsync? Are you trying to tell me that an i7 3770, when paired with an appropriately high-powered GPU, is incapable of producing 60 FPS in Skyrim at stock? Okay, dude. Continue with your myopic-enthusiast elitism. People who don't overclock aren't stupid, though. The fact that you think otherwise is neither here nor there.

But hey, at least you've provided something approaching a rational argument in the above-quoted post. That's progress.
January 27, 2013 9:06:53 PM

bctande1 said:
Lemme try and pull something together.. Gimme a sec.

Please, before it turns into a flame war.
January 27, 2013 9:10:26 PM

Fulgurant said:
An argument you started. An argument that you seem intent to continue even after you said you were done.

Skyrim? You mean the game that requires vsync? Are you trying to tell me that an i7 3770, when paired with an appropriately high-powered GPU, is incapable of producing 60 FPS at stock? Okay, dude. Continue with your myopic-enthusiast elitism. People who don't overclock aren't stupid, though. The fact that you think otherwise is neither here nor there.

But hey, at least you've provided something approaching a rational argument in the above-quoted post. That's progress.

So now you are assuming the OP wants vsync? and no, the games doesn't require vsync, its pretty easy to turn off. And my myopic-enthusiast elitism is just in your head. Also, i'm not trying to come off as an ass, you seem like a intelligent human being. Noob12 is who is giving bad advice.
January 27, 2013 9:15:57 PM

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z75 Pro3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.78 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: OCZ Vector Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($238.90 @ Amazon)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($384.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($75.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1399.54
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 18:15 EST-0500)

Whaddaya think?
January 27, 2013 9:17:17 PM

200r is the best case at the price hands down

CX600M is a modular psu

Z75 Pro 3 will OC fine
January 27, 2013 9:18:39 PM

EDIT - Ahh it's my Micro-center 3770k.. add 100$ to that 1399 and you've got a 1500$ build.
January 27, 2013 9:23:33 PM

blake1243 said:
So now you are assuming the OP wants vsync? and no, the games doesn't require vsync, its pretty easy to turn off. And my myopic-enthusiast elitism is just in your head. Also, i'm not trying to come off as an ass, you seem like a intelligent human being. Noob12 is who is giving bad advice.


No, I was talking about Skyrim's physics/timing issues with Vsync disabled. I don't play the game, so I can only go by what I read. If there's a way around that limitation, then fine.

And I referred to myopic-enthusiast elitism because your position is the kind of thing that only myopic enthusiasts would argue. "Only idiots don't overclock," is a statement that completely ignores the average user, not to mention the original design of the hardware. Fact is, most people don't care enough about computers even to consider overclocking. That doesn't make them dumb, any more than failing to do your own mechanic work, or plumbing work, or electric work, or carpentry work makes you dumb.

There are, in short, always value advantages to be gained if you're willing to put in the extra time and effort to learn the ins and outs of a particular thing. You and I are computer enthusiasts; that's great. But most of the world doesn't share our enthusiasm.

That said, I'm sure you're a good person and you have given pretty good advice in this thread, all things considered. I don't wanna kill you for saying something offhandedly in a forum thread. I just didn't want the OP to get the wrong idea, to feel like he had to overclock for fear of violating some sort of arcane computer-value ethos. ;) 

My apologies if I've come off as hyper-critical.
January 27, 2013 9:29:58 PM

bctande1 said:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-3770K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($229.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z75 Pro3 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Patriot Viper 3 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($38.78 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Seagate Barracuda 2TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($89.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: OCZ Vector Series 256GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($238.90 @ Amazon)
Video Card: HIS Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($384.98 @ Newegg)
Case: Corsair 200R ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 600W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V Power Supply ($75.98 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1399.54
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 18:15 EST-0500)

Whaddaya think?


You and I are on the same wavelength. :) 

The only disadvantage I can see, from a cursory inspection of the motherboard in question, is that it might not allow for Crossfire support down the road. (Edit: Could be wrong about that, actually. It says it does have Crossfire support. My fault.)

Hadn't thought about z75 though. Interesting thought.
January 27, 2013 9:37:18 PM

Fulgrant -- Thanks for the Feedback !

I like the constructive approach you take with things, and I definitely agree with you on overclocking. I realized it's a non-necessity when I managed to get so much performance out of 500-700$ PCs I regularly build by simply excluding "K" processors, and Z77 motherboards.

As far as Crossfire, I agree it is a bit of a disadvantage. The CX600 would'nt work and neither would a Seasonic 620W for that matter, but the 7970 with recent drivers is an absolute beast, and will be for time to come. I guess it's up to the OP to decide.

Any other feedback is welcome.
January 27, 2013 9:47:08 PM

bctande1 said:
Fulgrant -- Thanks for the Feedback !

I like the constructive approach you take with things, and I definitely agree with you on overclocking. I realized it's a non-necessity when I managed to get so much performance out of 500-700$ PCs I regularly build by simply excluding "K" processors, and Z77 motherboards.

As far as Crossfire, I agree it is a bit of a disadvantage. The CX600 would'nt work and neither would a Seasonic 620W for that matter, but the 7970 with recent drivers is an absolute beast, and will be for time to come. I guess it's up to the OP to decide.

Any other feedback is welcome.


Thanks for the kind words. One other thing just occurred to me: I'd avoid the OCZ Vector SSD. For that price, you could easily pick up a Samsung 840 Pro or an Intel 330 at an analogous capacity.

It's a small thing, but OCZ is objectively less reliable.

EDIT
: I only mention Crossfire as a point of mild interest. Personally, I don't have much use for dual-graphics configurations; I think you're almost always better off just upgrading to a newer single-card option if your current card starts to show signs of age. It's more power-efficient and less hassle than trying to add a second card years down the line.

Multi-GPU options are only important if you're used to gaming at obscene resolutions, IMO.
January 27, 2013 10:04:21 PM

Crossfire - I agree 100%

OCZ - I think that if you look at that article it's clear that the older OCZ SSDs were distorting picture a bit. I mean, 40% return rate. Anyway, the page after makes the point -

"Among the most popular models, things are much better, with the exception of the Agility 4: 0.93% on the Vertex 4s, 1.22% on the Vertex 3s, 2.59% on the Agility 3s and 5.60% on the Agility 4s."

OCZ spent much time doing the Vector series drives, employing a new controller and such. I think it would be reasonable to say that the Vector will run just fine.

To be honest, IMO the choice between Vector/Sammy/Intel is negligible for the most part, but I don't tinker with SSDs often
January 27, 2013 10:06:50 PM

Thanks for all the suggestions. I have a few questions. On some you have 2 internal harddrives so is this a feature I need and for what purpose? Just wondering with this being my first build. Anyway on this whole overclocking, is it worth it. What I am looking for is most bang for my buck. If something doesn't help much then I don't need it and I'll save some money. If its worth the money I'll look into it. Thanks.
January 27, 2013 10:12:51 PM

bctande1 said:

To be honest, IMO the choice between Vector/Sammy/Intel is negligible for the most part, but I don't tinker with SSDs often


Oh sure. It's a small matter. I'm always a little hesitant to get involved in discussions of brand preference/loyalty, because they're largely subjective. That's why I love that BEHardware site; it gives us something approaching an objective standard by which to judge reliability.

In the case of OCZ SSDs, it does seem like OCZ's past problems are skewing the numbers, but given the vastness of their previous failure, I'd personally stay away from the brand a little while longer, unless the price advantage for OCZ is just mind-blowing. In this case, the price differences are negligible.

But yeah, even Intel and Samsung will send out the occasional dud. (About 1 dud for every 200 drives, according to the stats.) All you can do is hope you aren't among the unlucky. :) 
January 27, 2013 10:23:10 PM

DominusDusty said:
Thanks for all the suggestions. I have a few questions. On some you have 2 internal harddrives so is this a feature I need and for what purpose? Just wondering with this being my first build. Anyway on this whole overclocking, is it worth it. What I am looking for is most bang for my buck. If something doesn't help much then I don't need it and I'll save some money. If its worth the money I'll look into it. Thanks.


One of my builds suggested 2 HDDs just because you were already at a soft cap in terms of the performance you could wring out of CPU/GPU. In order to upgrade significantly in terms of raw horsepower, you'd have to move up to a socket 2011 motherboard and/or a Crossfire setup. (Or an nVidia 690, which is basically two GPUs on a single card.) Neither of those options was feasible for ~$80, but you can buy an extra HDD for that money.

And I figured lots of storage space would be useful for video editing. And even if you don't need 4 TB of space, it never hurts to have redundancy. Finally, the second HDD helped to illustrate the practical difference between the overclockable build (z77) and the non-overclockable build (b75).

But no, you don't need two HDDs. A single 2 TB drive is probably plenty.

Is overclocking worth it? I'd say yes. But if you don't genuinely enjoy the process, then don't get too concerned with the results. Just read some articles/reviews, pick some modest OC settings, stress test them to ensure they work, and go on your way. Stability is much more important than an extra 200-300 MHz. It's important to understand that even stress testing won't necessarily catch every potential source of instability; stability can also degrade over time.
January 27, 2013 10:40:21 PM

Fulgurant said:
One of my builds suggested 2 HDDs just because you were already at a soft cap in terms of the performance you could wring out of CPU/GPU. In order to upgrade significantly in terms of raw horsepower, you'd have to move up to a socket 2011 motherboard and/or a Crossfire setup. (Or an nVidia 690, which is basically two GPUs on a single card.) Neither of those options was feasible for ~$80, but you can buy an extra HDD for that money.

And I figured lots of storage space would be useful for video editing. And even if you don't need 4 TB of space, it never hurts to have redundancy. Finally, the second HDD helped to illustrate the practical difference between the overclockable build (z77) and the non-overclockable build (b75).

But no, you don't need two HDDs. A single 2 TB drive is probably plenty.

Is overclocking worth it? I'd say yes. But if you don't genuinely enjoy the process, then don't get too concerned with the results. Just read some articles/reviews, pick some modest OC settings, stress test them to ensure they work, and go on your way. Stability is much more important than an extra 200-300 MHz. It's important to understand that even stress testing won't necessarily catch every potential source of instability; stability can also degrade over time.


Thanks, I like your first build. Overclocking seems interesting but maybe a bit much for my first build. I'll leave that for the next time. With the ssd and 2 tb hdd I think will give me optimal space for now but in the future, if needed could I add another or would just having it from beginning give me any performance benefits? I am just thinking I don't wanna get the extra and by my next build not have even used 1 of them to the max, you know?
January 27, 2013 10:44:05 PM

DominusDusty said:
Thanks, I like your first build. Overclocking seems interesting but maybe a bit much for my first build. I'll leave that for the next time. With the ssd and 2 tb hdd I think will give me optimal space for now but in the future, if needed could I add another or would just having it from beginning give me any performance benefits? I am just thinking I don't wanna get the extra and by my next build not have even used 1 of them to the max, you know?


Sure, you can add the second HDD whenever you want. Takes about five minutes. :) 
January 27, 2013 11:05:51 PM

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100 92.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($36.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($244.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($244.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: NZXT Switch 810 (White) ATX Full Tower Case ($168.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 850W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS90 DVD/CD Writer ($26.59 @ Compuvest)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1447.47
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 20:04 EST-0500)


Try this on for size.
January 27, 2013 11:15:37 PM

SMGeaZy said:
PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($189.99 @ Microcenter)
CPU Cooler: Corsair H100 92.0 CFM Liquid CPU Cooler ($89.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: ASRock Z77 Pro4 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($109.99 @ Amazon)
Memory: Kingston HyperX Blu 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1333 Memory ($36.99 @ Amazon)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Black 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($84.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($244.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Video Card: MSI Radeon HD 7870 GHz Edition 2GB Video Card (CrossFire) ($244.99 @ SuperBiiz)
Case: NZXT Switch 810 (White) ATX Full Tower Case ($168.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Power Supply: Corsair Professional 850W 80 PLUS Silver Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($159.99 @ Newegg)
Optical Drive: LG GH24NS90 DVD/CD Writer ($26.59 @ Compuvest)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1447.47
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 20:04 EST-0500)


Try this on for size.


For one, he said that he was going to be doing some heavy duty video editing -- losing the power of the 3770k would certainly make harder. Furthermore, the choice of Crossfire AMD doesn't held video editing either -- I should probably tweak my build to add a 670 for CUDA. And I'm not sure I'm in support of CFX/Switch 810. That's a ginormus case, and I don't know if the OP would be content with all that size. Either way, you wouldn't really need it -- you can get a Fractal R4/Carbide 400R or 500R, and have enough airflow.
As said before, Crossfire would offer too many issues with Driver Support/Heat/Noise, and you would certainly have to push the 3570k pretty far to remove that CPU bottleneck -- we all know how difficult IVB is to push past 4.5GHz. The OP isn't even an experienced overclocker. And, pushing the H100 to load would increase fan noise there as well -- this will be a loud ass PC lol.

The GPU performance would be better, but exact scaling is questionable. I think there are too many wrongs with this build to warrant the single "right", which is better GPU performance.
January 27, 2013 11:19:47 PM

bctande1 said:
For one, he said that he was going to be doing some heavy duty video editing -- losing the power of the 3770k would certainly make harder. Furthermore, the choice of Crossfire AMD doesn't held video editing either -- I should probably tweak my build to add a 670 for CUDA. And I'm not sure I'm in support of CFX/Switch 810. That's a ginormus case, and I don't know if the OP would be content with all that size. Either way, you wouldn't really need it -- you can get a Fractal R4/Carbide 400R or 500R, and have enough airflow.
As said before, Crossfire would offer too many issues with Driver Support/Heat/Noise, and you would certainly have to push the 3570k pretty far to remove that CPU bottleneck -- we all know how difficult IVB is to push past 4.5GHz. The OP isn't even an experienced overclocker. And, pushing the H100 to load would increase fan noise there as well -- this will be a loud ass PC lol.

The GPU performance would be better, but exact scaling is questionable. I think there are too many wrongs with this build to warrant the single "right", which is better GPU performance.


+1.

Also, no SSD. I feel that's a non-negotiable component in a $1500 build in 2013. The quality-of-life improvement from an SSD is not to be understated.
January 27, 2013 11:26:31 PM

Fulgurant said:
+1.

Also, no SSD. I feel that's a non-negotiable component in a $1500 build in 2013. The quality-of-life improvement from an SSD is not to be understated.


I concur !
January 28, 2013 1:32:48 AM

How about this collection of parts?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-2700K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($302.24 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI Z77A-G41 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($79.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($69.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($97.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Western Digital WD Green 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($359.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($53.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1235.11
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 22:25 EST-0500)

2700k, z77 and hyper 212 plus give you the option to overclock later if not right away(any ivy or sandy i7 will last you a long time). 16GB ram for the video editing stuff. The xfx 550w is built by seasonic and is more than enough for this build. Folks at newegg are doing great things with that hd7970. HAF 912 has excellent features for the price. Hope this helps.
January 28, 2013 1:51:20 AM

jtenorj said:
How about this collection of parts?

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i7-2700K 3.5GHz Quad-Core Processor ($302.24 @ Amazon)
CPU Cooler: Cooler Master Hyper 212 Plus 76.8 CFM Sleeve Bearing CPU Cooler ($19.99 @ Newegg)
Motherboard: MSI Z77A-G41 ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($79.98 @ SuperBiiz)
Memory: Kingston Black 16GB (2 x 8GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($69.99 @ NCIX US)
Storage: Samsung 840 Series 120GB 2.5" Solid State Disk ($97.99 @ Adorama)
Storage: Western Digital WD Green 2TB 3.5" 5400RPM Internal Hard Drive ($104.99 @ Amazon)
Video Card: PowerColor Radeon HD 7970 3GB Video Card ($359.99 @ Newegg)
Case: Cooler Master HAF 912 ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ Newegg)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($53.99 @ NCIX US)
Optical Drive: Lite-On iHAS124-04 DVD/CD Writer ($15.98 @ Outlet PC)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($89.98 @ Outlet PC)
Total: $1235.11
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2013-01-27 22:25 EST-0500)

2700k, z77 and hyper 212 plus give you the option to overclock later if not right away(any ivy or sandy i7 will last you a long time). 16GB ram for the video editing stuff. The xfx 550w is built by seasonic and is more than enough for this build. Folks at newegg are doing great things with that hd7970. HAF 912 has excellent features for the price. Hope this helps.


Hmm.. so basically you downgraded from a 2700k, which means MORE power consumption whilst downgrading the PSU wattage, which works against the former. A Powercolor 7970 runs hotter than my HIS Q 7970, while taking more power(most likely), which once again works against the PSU downgrade.

You downgraded to a slower HDD, which means video rendering and editing will be generally slower, and cut SSD space in half, which limits storage to 2.12TB for games AND video clips.

You went from my 200R, which was released late 2012, to a much older HAF 912, which doesn't have the performance, or flexibility of a 200R. The 200R is a better case in every aspect and costs about the same.

That RAM upgrade, which I can certainly do, are all the advantages I see from your choices.

I don't see any reasons why the OP should go this route.

EDIT :: Ahh my mistake, I misread the G41 price -- even without the rebate it is as much than the Z75 AsRock. I encourage the OP to take MOBO if he doesn't mind rebates
January 28, 2013 2:40:18 AM

Sandy only uses a few more watts than ivy and has more overclocking headroom. Didn't see spending 20 bucks more on a CPU that isn't much faster at stock speed. The xfx 550w may not be semi modular but the HAF 912 has cable management holes with space behind the mobo tray for unused cables. I'm not concerned in the slightest about it's ability to power this system. Your HIS HD7970 is not in stock(it's also huge, but that's not a big deal with the options in these cases). For the hard drive, I looked at both newegg and amazon user reviews for this hdd and other cheaper ones like the seagate and found the wd green(not caviar green, just green) to be more reliable. We can add another Samsung 840 to the build if the OP wants(side note, most cases come with only one or 2 sata cables and most of these drives are oem models without cables. Biostar is the only company I can think of that offers 4 sata cables with a mobo, but besides that the purchase of a few extra cables may be required). The main thing I see the 200R has over the HAF 912 is usb 3.0 ports(not a big deal). They both have front dust filters, but HAF 912 has a bottom psu filter where a psu in 200R draws are from below the gpu. That is less ideal in my mind. The 200R can mount 4 SSDs, but who uses more than one or 2? Back to the Powercolor HD7970. It may not be a record breaker for overclocking, but people are getting decent clocks(observable over ghz ed.) while keeping cool and quiet. Finally(sorry if this is a bit jumbled), these high capacity 5400rpm drives have decent throughput(around 100MB/s) which shouldn't be too much of a bottleneck. I know raid 0 speeds up reads and writes, but is there any reason the use of raid 1 can't speed up reads? I mention that if the OP wants to add a drive and build an array later(they said probably just one hdd for now). It seems most people care more about read speeds than write speeds. Just trying to further explain my suggested parts.
January 28, 2013 3:59:24 AM

jtenorj said:
Sandy only uses a few more watts than ivy and has more overclocking headroom. Didn't see spending 20 bucks more on a CPU that isn't much faster at stock speed. The xfx 550w may not be semi modular but the HAF 912 has cable management holes with space behind the mobo tray for unused cables. I'm not concerned in the slightest about it's ability to power this system. Your HIS HD7970 is not in stock(it's also huge, but that's not a big deal with the options in these cases). For the hard drive, I looked at both newegg and amazon user reviews for this hdd and other cheaper ones like the seagate and found the wd green(not caviar green, just green) to be more reliable. We can add another Samsung 840 to the build if the OP wants(side note, most cases come with only one or 2 sata cables and most of these drives are oem models without cables. Biostar is the only company I can think of that offers 4 sata cables with a mobo, but besides that the purchase of a few extra cables may be required). The main thing I see the 200R has over the HAF 912 is usb 3.0 ports(not a big deal). They both have front dust filters, but HAF 912 has a bottom psu filter where a psu in 200R draws are from below the gpu. That is less ideal in my mind. The 200R can mount 4 SSDs, but who uses more than one or 2? Back to the Powercolor HD7970. It may not be a record breaker for overclocking, but people are getting decent clocks(observable over ghz ed.) while keeping cool and quiet. Finally(sorry if this is a bit jumbled), these high capacity 5400rpm drives have decent throughput(around 100MB/s) which shouldn't be too much of a bottleneck. I know raid 0 speeds up reads and writes, but is there any reason the use of raid 1 can't speed up reads? I mention that if the OP wants to add a drive and build an array later(they said probably just one hdd for now). It seems most people care more about read speeds than write speeds. Just trying to further explain my suggested parts.


Long, somewhat disorganized, but concise nevertheless. I like it !

Now for my rebuttal:
Sandy vs Ivy
The underlying problem with most of your choices is that you treat this build as if the OP is working on a budget tighter that the one I proposed. 1500~ was the point the OP wanted, and I hit that nail on the head. T

That said, why would you choose a 2700k that is 10-15% slower at stock, whilst consumer more power? You say that "it only consumes a little bit more, and runs a bit slower", but then why on earth would you pick it if budget is not an issue in my build? Anywho, PCIE 3.0 has been shown to deliver better performance for bandwidth heavy activities like GPU COMPUTE The downgrade saves about 20$, but I don't see how that has been better distributed amongst the system in a way that would justify it. The OPs games will run marginally slower, along with rendering etc. I just don't see the point of the downgrade. Why not go for the absolute best when you have the money to spare?

7970 - Ah I didn't see mine wasn't in stock, thanks for that. I was going to replace it when a GTX 670, however.

PSU - As far as the PSU, either choice would be fine, but the XFX 550W would be running at about 85% if the system as on on load(according to PCPartPicker), and when you factor in wear and tear, and degredation that may increase to 90% over a year or two. In three years, given he is running all of the same hardware that would increase even higher. I think the extra thermal headroom would be the secure route to go. Then, there is the modularity of the CX600M. That will be up to the OP, however.

SSD - I haven't seen an SSD that doesn't come with it's own SATA cable, so extra SATA cables will not be a problem. Anyhow, I haven't seen a review that doesn't rank the Vector above most, if not, all SSDs on the market -- so far the biggest criticism I've seen is it's price, which shouldn't be a problem considering the price ceiling we have here.

HAF 912 vs 200R - The 200r offers much wider and longer cable management holes. It features a tool-less design which incorporates both 3.5 and 2.5 drive mounts. Additionally, HAF 912 fans have been reviewed to move very little air, a stark contrast to the much better Corsair fans. The 200R features an extra 120mm mount of the side panel. The 200R features USB3. The 200r comes with permanent stand-offs pre-installed. The 200R also delivers surprisingly good noise dampening -- rivaling top-notch cases like the BF-Ghost any my personal favorite - Fractal R4. I think the real question is, where does the HAF 912 beat the 200R? You also named a few advantages. That really begs the queston, why choose the case that is less updated, with less features, if it doesn't cost less? On a side note, I'm not sure if Cooler Master has switched up that horrendous looking gray finish on the inside of the 912.

HDD - MaximumPC did a review on your drive, and the Barracuda beat it on just about every benchmark.

I can see most of your choices making sense if the OP was on a tight budget, but he isn't. What you are doing in sacrificing bits and pieces of performance that collectively adds up, then justifying it using logic that doesn't apply well. For your own sake, I could easily drop down to a great OCing 7950 and use your logic, or drop to a 2600k and use your logic again -- and the choices would completely be justified because the decreases in performance are incremental. My point is, why make this cuts across the board? What is the philosophy behind your build, because I can't see any beyond "Mine is a little cheaper, and less powerful"
January 28, 2013 4:13:42 AM

As for the memory I saw a 16gb of ram and many of you had 8gb. Being as I will be internet browsing heavily and may have several programs open while recording or editing would the extra ram be necessary or is 8 just fine?
January 28, 2013 8:39:37 AM

You want it for rendering/video creation tasks. Doesn't hurt to have browsers with many tabs open in the background while you play a resource hungry game. Windows will also use available ram to cache your most used programs.
February 2, 2013 11:24:46 PM

My chosen build.

I chose Fulgurant's non-overclocking build. I took away the extra memory just because I can install it later if the need arise. Anything anyone wants to add to this build is much appreciated. Also I need a mouse and keyboard if anyone has one to recommend. The price is below my $1500 I know but I'll just use that to buy games and an elgato. Thanks for all the feedback.
February 2, 2013 11:42:26 PM

DominusDusty said:
My chosen build.

I chose Fulgurant's non-overclocking build. I took away the extra memory just because I can install it later if the need arise. Anything anyone wants to add to this build is much appreciated. Also I need a mouse and keyboard if anyone has one to recommend. The price is below my $1500 I know but I'll just use that to buy games and an elgato. Thanks for all the feedback.


In the interest of full disclosure, I've always used Asus motherboards; I'm partial to them. But as long as the prices are as close as they are, you might be better off with the z75 motherboard suggested by bctande. It's an ATX (bigger than micro-ATX), and therefore it'll probably be easier to work with. It'll also have a couple more bells and whistles.

The p8b75-M/CSM has a little better support, because it's a business motherboard. ("CSM" stands for Corporate Stable Model, and it represents a quality/service guarantee.)

Whichever motherboard you pick, though, I think you'll be very pleased with the build.
February 3, 2013 3:11:39 AM

Fulgurant said:
In the interest of full disclosure, I've always used Asus motherboards; I'm partial to them. But as long as the prices are as close as they are, you might be better off with the z75 motherboard suggested by bctande. It's an ATX (bigger than micro-ATX), and therefore it'll probably be easier to work with. It'll also have a couple more bells and whistles.

The p8b75-M/CSM has a little better support, because it's a business motherboard. ("CSM" stands for Corporate Stable Model, and it represents a quality/service guarantee.)

Whichever motherboard you pick, though, I think you'll be very pleased with the build.


Thanks I'll look into the bells and whistles and see if I'd like what it comes with and look at the other. Found any good deals on a mouse and keyboard perchance?
February 4, 2013 3:12:20 AM

DominusDusty said:
My chosen build.

I chose Fulgurant's non-overclocking build. I took away the extra memory just because I can install it later if the need arise. Anything anyone wants to add to this build is much appreciated. Also I need a mouse and keyboard if anyone has one to recommend. The price is below my $1500 I know but I'll just use that to buy games and an elgato. Thanks for all the feedback.


...and an elgato. Would that be a new cat(El Gato is Spanish for cat), or perhaps a Gelato(fancy Italian ice cream with a few of the letters switched around)?
February 4, 2013 6:11:03 PM

jtenorj said:
...and an elgato. Would that be a new cat(El Gato is Spanish for cat), or perhaps a Gelato(fancy Italian ice cream with a few of the letters switched around)?

Lmao. Its a type of capture card I wanted to try out. Thanks for the recommendation.
February 6, 2013 9:06:30 AM

I can't believe your putting a 7970 and 3770 on a cheap b75 board...... hey, its your money :D 
February 6, 2013 1:04:56 PM

blake1243 said:
I can't believe your putting a 7970 and 3770 on a cheap b75 board...... hey, its your money :D 


So you think a motherboard aimed at small businesses isn't reliable enough? Dude, either list your specific objection, or leave it alone.

And the OP said he may very well consider z75, btw.
!