350D, D70s, lenses - Need inspiration

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I just cannot decide whether to choose the Canon 350D or Nikon D70s, so
I'm looking here for inspiration. I've done my homework and spent days
reading reviews and user opinions. I think my next step is to go find a
shop selling them both so I can see for myself what they look and feel
like. Canon boast about how small and light the 350D is but that's
always put me off this sort of product as it can feel and look more like
a toy. Of course what I'd really like is the Canon 20D, but there's no
chance I can afford that as well as lenses.

For now I'm more inclined to get the Nikon but I have some questions for
anyone who's experienced both cameras...

1) Is the extra noise of the Nikon due to it not having a CMOS sensor
and lower pixels very noticeable or not really worth taking into
consideration with the comparison?

2) How obvious is it that the Canon isn't so well made as the Nikon?

3) The Nikon's USB transfer isn't full speed - Does this really notice
very much and does it bother anyone other than being just a slight
annoyance?

4) I've read about the Nikon's good system for keeping focused on moving
objects. That's one of the main things I want from a camera, so I'm
wondering if this system is a lot better than whatever focusing system
Canon uses?

Ok, that's the cameras sorted out but now for the lenses. Assume for now
that I go for the Nikon D70s. I can get that with the 18-70mm kit lens,
which I think I'd probably do. Although I want fast focusing, that's
more for a larger zoom so up to 70mm I'm not too worried. For the larger
lens I'd like to get a 70-300mm. I've looked at many options but reviews
don't say much about focus speed, although some people comment that
focusing is slow on most the cheaper lenses. Oh one important point-I
can't spend more than about 850GBP in total, so that means 220GBP for
the 70-300mm lens, but I can go a little higher if need be by holding
off buying it for a short time. I'm not in the market for anything too
fancy though.

Some lenses I'm looking at are:

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED
Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Macro Super DG

I've also thought about other options such as getting the Tamron AF
18-200mm XR DI II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO f3.5-6.3, then a 2X
teleconverter. Even that is also said to have slow focus though, and as
that's what I particularly want I'm put off many of these lenses. The
only lens I've seen where the focus is said to be fast is the Canon
100-300mm, but I won't get into that at the moment as I think I'm more
likely going for the D70s.

If anyone can give me any inspiration in what to do here, I'd be very
grateful! I'm going nuts trying to work out the best and cheapest
options, without sacrificing quality too much.

Thanks loads,
Geoff.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Geoff <Geoff@PLEASEASK.plus.com> wrote:

> 1) Is the extra noise of the Nikon due to it not having a CMOS sensor
> and lower pixels very noticeable or not really worth taking into
> consideration with the comparison?

Not worth taking into consideration. Incidentally, CMOS is inherently
noisier than CCD, not the other way around. But no, you won't notice
any difference.

> 2) How obvious is it that the Canon isn't so well made as the Nikon?

It's pretty obvious to me. Whether it actually matters to you is another
question entirely. Pick them up and see how they feel.

> 3) The Nikon's USB transfer isn't full speed - Does this really notice
> very much and does it bother anyone other than being just a slight
> annoyance?

Slight annoyance at most. I always used USB transfer rather than pulling
out the card, even though it was slower, just because it was more convenient.
Plug in the camera and then go do something else while it's loading. No big
deal.

I now have a D2x, and the USB 2 speed is welcome, especially since the files
are so much bigger, but it's still just not that important. By the time I'm
using USB, I'm done shooting and not in a hurry. If I'm in a hurry I'll just
pull the card and do it that way.

> 4) I've read about the Nikon's good system for keeping focused on moving
> objects. That's one of the main things I want from a camera, so I'm
> wondering if this system is a lot better than whatever focusing system
> Canon uses?

It actually works pretty well, but I can't compare it to the Canon. It can
track a car passing by at high speed, for example. Once you learn to use the
AF it is really quite good, though a lot does depend on the lens you use. A
slower lens will really hurt in that department.

> I can get that with the 18-70mm kit lens, which I think I'd probably do.
> Although I want fast focusing, that's more for a larger zoom so up to
> 70mm I'm not too worried.

The 18-70 is fast with focusing.

> Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED
> Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Macro Super DG
>
> I've also thought about other options such as getting the Tamron AF
> 18-200mm XR DI II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO f3.5-6.3, then a 2X
> teleconverter.

I don't have experience with any of these lenses, but as a general rule,
go with Nikon ones rather than third-party. I, too, have heard that the
70-300 type zooms don't focus terribly fast. I'd go with something with
less zoom range, personally, like a 70-200.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Geoff <Geoff@PLEASEASK.plus.com> wrote:

> I'm surprised to read that CMOS is inherently noisier than CCD? I guess
> that wherever I got the opposite from wasn't right, so this helps my
> decision towards the Nikon.

CMOS is inherently noisier, all else being equal -- obviously, it's not
equal. The noise isn't a factor. Don't even worry about it. You won't
notice it with either camera and you won't notice a difference between
them.

> By the way I used to prefer manual focus but when shooting fast moving
> objects it's not so easy, and with my Finepix 4900 I've got used to not
> being able to tell if the view is in focus or not (the viewfinder is
> terrible), so I have to rely on AF, but that's very very slow. In fact
> with moving objects AF is useless and manual is just about useless.

The difference from any P&S to a decent SLR will be profound, in terms of
focusing. With Nikon, the "AF-S" lenses tend to be the fastest, but the
others are still a world apart from a P&S contrast-detection AF system.

--
Jeremy | jeremy@exit109.com

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 23:11:01 +0100, Geoff <Geoff@PLEASEASK.plus.com>
wrote:

>As for getting more equipment like an external card reader and better,
>faster zooms - I simply cannot afford it.

Never say never - you might find something more affordable
second-hand.

Al
--
[This space intentionally left blank]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Geoff wrote in part:


> I'm surprised to read that CMOS is inherently noisier than CCD? I guess
> that wherever I got the opposite from wasn't right, so this helps my
> decision towards the Nikon.
>

I'm thinking that Canon's secret recipe of 11 herbs and spices in the
DIGIC processor must really be something special.

Someone on rpd will of course correct me if I'm wrong. And call me
nasty, foul names. Excellent, but if you want to make my .sigmata file,
remember that spelling counts.

--
It Came From C. L. Smith's Unclaimed Mysteries.
http://www.unclaimedmysteries.net

T. Boozer wrote in rolltidefan.net: "That dude that took the picture,
Corry Smith, is a bigtime aubie. Notice he named the pic
'BRIANDENNEHYstadium' Screw him!"

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

I reckon they should make an SLR with a fixed lens and say 128Mb of
memory built in. USB 2.0 transfer. That would satisfy the needs of
those who don't want to upgrade.

T.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Unfortunately I'm on the same rollercoaster as you guys...

DSLR, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, flash, mem cards, masses of NiMh batts,
you name it.

I'm going back to P&S.

T.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Rox-off wrote:

>In article <43147040$0$1294$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader02.plus.net>,
>Geoff@PLEASEASK.plus.com says...
>
>
>
>>For now I'm more inclined to get the Nikon but I have some questions for
>>anyone who's experienced both cameras...
>>
>>1) Is the extra noise of the Nikon due to it not having a CMOS sensor
>>and lower pixels very noticeable or not really worth taking into
>>consideration with the comparison?
>>
>>
>
>The "noise" from a Nikon is easily removed using a number of different
>programs available on the net, notably Neat Image. Unlike the Nikon
>where you have the option to decide just how much noise reduction you
>want, the Canon uses in-camera algorithms to remove the noise (at the
>expense of detail).
>
>
>
>>2) How obvious is it that the Canon isn't so well made as the Nikon?
>>
>>
>
>Don't get me started! I would never buy a Canon consumer grade DSLR
>again. Some people like them, but you are right..they do look like toys.
>
>
>
>>3) The Nikon's USB transfer isn't full speed - Does this really notice
>>very much and does it bother anyone other than being just a slight
>>annoyance?
>>
>>
>
>Buy a card reader. A lot easier than connecting and disconnecting the
>camera all the time.
>
>
>
>>4) I've read about the Nikon's good system for keeping focused on moving
>>objects. That's one of the main things I want from a camera, so I'm
>>wondering if this system is a lot better than whatever focusing system
>>Canon uses?
>>
>>
>
>Can't comment on the 350D, but the D70 even prior to the firmware
>upgrade was pretty good (a *lot* better than the EOS D60 I had before
>it).
>
>
>
>>Ok, that's the cameras sorted out but now for the lenses. Assume for now
>>that I go for the Nikon D70s. I can get that with the 18-70mm kit lens,
>>which I think I'd probably do. Although I want fast focusing, that's
>>more for a larger zoom so up to 70mm I'm not too worried. For the larger
>>lens I'd like to get a 70-300mm. I've looked at many options but reviews
>>don't say much about focus speed, although some people comment that
>>focusing is slow on most the cheaper lenses. Oh one important point-I
>>can't spend more than about 850GBP in total, so that means 220GBP for
>>the 70-300mm lens, but I can go a little higher if need be by holding
>>off buying it for a short time. I'm not in the market for anything too
>>fancy though.
>>
>>
>
>The Nikkor 18-70mm DX lens is awesome! It is very sharp for a kit lens
>and extremely good value for money.
>
>
>
>>Some lenses I'm looking at are:
>>
>>Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 70-300mm f/4-5.6D ED
>>Sigma 70-300mm F4-5.6 APO Macro Super DG
>>
>>
>
>You'll be disappointed with those.
>
>
>
>>I've also thought about other options such as getting the Tamron AF
>>18-200mm XR DI II LD Aspherical (IF) MACRO f3.5-6.3, then a 2X
>>teleconverter. Even that is also said to have slow focus though, and as
>>that's what I particularly want I'm put off many of these lenses. The
>>only lens I've seen where the focus is said to be fast is the Canon
>>100-300mm, but I won't get into that at the moment as I think I'm more
>>likely going for the D70s.
>>
>>If anyone can give me any inspiration in what to do here, I'd be very
>>grateful! I'm going nuts trying to work out the best and cheapest
>>options, without sacrificing quality too much.
>>
>>
>
>Get a Nikon.
>
>
>


Thanks for your answers mate. I'm more and more definately going for the
Nikon now. The one thing remaining that leads me to wanting the Canon
instead is the lower pixels, but everyone reckons I won't even notice,
so I won't worry about that. Nikon it is then.

I'm not sure why it's easier to take a card out and put it in a card
reader by the way, compared to plugging the camera in? Not that it
matters, I'll have both options if I buy a card reader. With my current
camera I plug it in to the USB lead and it's recognised straight away. I
can't imagine anything being faster. I guess it helps to have USB
sockets on the front of the PC case.

You said I'll be disappointed with those 2 lenses I mentioned, which is
pretty much what I've read elsewhere too. I don't know what the best
option is going to be for a larger lens without spending a lot more. A
70-200mm has been suggested (I haven't looked at available options for
those yet) so maybe I'll go for that if I have to, but I'd rather have
higher zoom than that if possible. I guess I can't have it all for the
money I have.

Could you or anyone else suggest either a 70-200mm or 70-300mm lens
that's at least resonably good and has, above all else, fast focusing?
Sub 300GBP.

Cheers,
Geoff.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

tlai909@visto.com wrote:

>That's a tough call.
>
>As far as I've seen the Canon/Nikon 70-200 f2.8 and f4.0 lenses are
>very expensive.
>
>The f4.0 you might be able to stretch.
>
>I personally went for the Sigma 70-200 f2.8 and the 1.4x teleconverter.
>
>Be advised these are heavy lenses... 1.4kg or so and the cameras are
>usually only 700grams!
>
>I also believe in f2.8 down to the normal lengths so I chose the 24-70
>f2.8 also Sigma.
>
>T.
>
>
>

I don't mind F4 - Or should I say that I accept I'll never afford 2.8
with the money I have. I'll have the 3.5 18-70mm kit lens anyway
so....Well it's only half an F number less but I can live with that.
I've also wondered about getting a teleconverter with a 70-200mm, but of
course with an F4 I'll then be at....Well I guess it would be F6? I'm
only used to 2x teleconverters which I know double the F number.

Thanks for the tips,
Geoff.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

<tlai909@visto.com> wrote in message
news:1125477354.295453.291970@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
> Unfortunately I'm on the same rollercoaster as you guys...
>
> DSLR, 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8, flash, mem cards, masses of NiMh batts,
> you name it.
>
> I'm going back to P&S.
>
> T.

What fun will that be?

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Rox-off wrote:

>In article <431581c8$0$97116$ed2619ec@ptn-nntp-reader03.plus.net>,
>Geoff@PLEASEASK.plus.com says...
>
>
><snip>
>
>

>I'm afraid nothing from any brand exists that fits the bill. I used a
>few of the 70-300mm zooms when I first got involved in photography, but
>unless you have a really good tripod (or a lens with VR or IS) you will
>get soft pictures for your efforts.
>
>My advice is to save up and look at something in the pro range, maybe a
>used 70-200mm f/2.8 ED will be a start. Just remember that with a D70s
>you are getting an effective 105-300mm field of view (1.5x the focal
>length). You won't find it for under UKP300 though. Keep a look out for
>lenses on eBay.
>
>
>

I was afraid you'd say that. Effective 300mm would probably be
acceptable, although it's some time since I used my old 200mm with 2x
teleconverter (35mm SLR) and cannot remember if I really used the last
100mm or not. I'll see how I feel about the 18-70mm when I get it
anyway, and maybe I'll be able to cope with that and a 2x converter for
now. I'll do some research on 2X converters another time.

Cheers,
Geoff.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

>On Tue, 30 Aug 2005 Geoff <Geoff@PLEASEASK.plus.com> wrote:
>Canon boast about how small and light the 350D is but that's
>always put me off this sort of product as it can feel and look more like
>a toy.

So . . . .you consider large and heavy to be a feature??

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Escaper wrote:

>Hi Geoff:
>
>Great choice on the D70 instead of the 350D and here are some of the
>reasons why I would go with the Nikon myself as well:
>- The Nikon D70 has better construction - I just like the feel of the
>Nikon so much more.
>- The controls on the D70 are better (front and back instead of a
>single wheel on the Canon)
>- The 6Mp the D70 has is plenty for me - I actually think 4 to 5 Mp is
>the real sweet spot unless you want to blow up to more than 8x10.
>
>I have tried both plugging the camera thru the USB port and using a
>card reader. I have found that I would use the card reader 4 out of 5
>times. May be it is just my habits.
>
>On the lenses, I would definitely get the 18-70DX kit lens. It's one
>of the best value lenses you can find. For the 70-200/300 range, I
>would save money to get the Nikon 80-200/2.8 which can be found for
>around 500-600GBP. I would add a 1.4x teleconverter if you need to
>extend your range. I prefer this combination of 80-200 + 1.4x
>converter to any 70-300/4.0-5.6. If the Nikkor 80-200/2.8 is too
>expensive for you, look for the Nikkor 70-210/4.0 - this is an older
>lens but very sharp, however, I can not recommend you using this 70-210
>with any teleconverter. Another inexpensive lens to consider is the
>Tokina 80-200/2.8 ATX, this one can be found for half the price of the
>Nikkor 2.8.
>
>Anyway, good luck and cheers.
>
>
>

Hi Escaper and thanks for all that information. The reasons you gave for
going with the D70s are exaclty what I keep reading too, so I'm
confident I'm doing the right thing. I also feel that 5MP or so is
adequate. My current camera is only 3MP and that's perfectly fine for
5X7inch prints. I'll probably want to do some larger prints once I get
going with the new camera but nothing that large, so 6MP will be fine. I
guess that wanting 8MP or even more is a bit psycological!

I really can't justify spending 500-600GBP on a lense, even though I'd
love to. I'm out of work at the moment and can only afford the camera at
all because I'm selling other things. I've been reading reviews and
opinions about the various Tonika and Sigma lenses and the main thing
that bothers me is speed of AF, but I can't have everything. I won't be
able to afford any lenses after getting the camera anyway so I won't
worry too much about that now. As long as I'm certain on getting the
18-70mm kit lens (which I now am) to start with, thoughts on the next
lens will have to wait a while.

Thanks again,
Geoff.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Geoff <Geoff@pleaseask.plus.com> wrote:
>
> I wouldn't quite put it like that. I'm saying that 'too light' and 'too
> small' is a bad thing. Too small can mean too fiddly, and too light can
> mean it feeling off-balanced when using larger lenses.

It can also mean it has a Fisher-Price feel to the construction, to get
it that light. Having said that, I am not intentionally picking on any
particular camera, but I can say that the Nikon D70 feels like a camera
and not like a Fisher-Price toy.

--
Thomas T. Veldhouse
Key Fingerprint: 2DB9 813F F510 82C2 E1AE 34D0 D69D 1EDC D5EC AED1
Spammers please contact me at renegade@veldy.net.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Robert W. Curry wrote:

>You might to to http://non-aol.com/D70/ and check the reviews there. I've
>found the info worth looking through.
>
>Regards, Bob
>
>
>

I've had a quick look and bookmarked it. I think it'll come in very
handy. Excellent, thanks Bob.

Geoff.

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

Geoff wrote:
> I just cannot decide whether to choose the Canon 350D or Nikon D70s, so

Both will do fine for you. Consider also the Pentax *ist, Maxxum /5D
(antishake) and Oly E300.


--
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Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

On Fri, 02 Sep 2005 11:27:56 +0100, Geoff <Geoff@PLEASEASK.plus.com>
wrote:

>The main thing against the Canon for me is it's small size and plasticky
>'toy like' feel. I haven't held it myself yet but I trust what others have
>said about that

Do you also trust me when I say that I don't find its size awkward,
nor do I consider that it feels "toy-like"? :-)

Ignore what others say and handle ALL the cameras within your budget
yourself before making a decision. Only you can judge what feels right
in your hands, and like me you're about to make a considerable
financial commitment so it makes sense to explore all your options so
that you end up with the right tools for the job *you* want to do.

Al
--
[This space intentionally left blank]

Archived from groups: rec.photo.digital.slr-systems (More info?)

In article <11hc4g8bapnr374@corp.supernews.com>,
"Robert W. Curry" <rwc@robertcurry.com> wrote:

> Geoff wrote:
> >
> > Thanks for your answers mate. I'm more and more definately going for the
> > Nikon now. The one thing remaining that leads me to wanting the Canon
> > instead is the lower pixels, but everyone reckons I won't even notice,
> > so I won't worry about that. Nikon it is then.
> >
> > I'm not sure why it's easier to take a card out and put it in a card
> > reader by the way, compared to plugging the camera in? Not that it
> > matters, I'll have both options if I buy a card reader. With my current
> > camera I plug it in to the USB lead and it's recognised straight away. I
> > can't imagine anything being faster. I guess it helps to have USB
> > sockets on the front of the PC case.
> >
> > You said I'll be disappointed with those 2 lenses I mentioned, which is
> > pretty much what I've read elsewhere too. I don't know what the best
> > option is going to be for a larger lens without spending a lot more. A
> > 70-200mm has been suggested (I haven't looked at available options for
> > those yet) so maybe I'll go for that if I have to, but I'd rather have
> > higher zoom than that if possible. I guess I can't have it all for the
> > money I have.
> >
> > Could you or anyone else suggest either a 70-200mm or 70-300mm lens
> > that's at least resonably good and has, above all else, fast focusing?
> > Sub 300GBP.
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Geoff.
>
> You might to to http://non-aol.com/D70/ and check the reviews there. I've
> found the info worth looking through.
>
> Regards, Bob

Wow, great site! Thanks for the link!
-A