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EVGA claims minor rust as physical damage. What do you think ?

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Last response: in Graphics Cards
a b U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 8:05:55 PM

I'm posting this for one Toms member here, who seems to be is being shafted by EVGA! It is not my problem, I usually just help others. In this case, I think "lpedraja2002" is being unfairly (screwed) treated by EVGA.

Original thread here:

http://www.tomshardware.com/forum/382231-33-evga-rust-considered-physical-damage-charged#t2874451

BASICALLY:

"To make things short I sent my awesome EVGA 8800gt ... for an RMA... Well, after $25 in UPS charges for a small box ( I live in Puerto Rico) I received an email today saying that the card had physical damage Rust! The technician ...included the pictures in the email and I could see that the screws had a little rust on them and so did the bracket on the DVI ports. I was instructed to pay $69.99 to continue with the RMA but this is where I'm honestly confused. Is this even considered physical damage? I always took good care of this card and cleaned it with compressed air only so rust happening is not my fault, its what happens to metals that aren't treated, as far as I know.

The technician responded back saying that rust and corrosion is not normal wear and tear and that they have cards older than 5 years that look like new. I told him if there is any special consideration regarding the country in which the owner lives since I live in Puerto Rico and the tropical climate ranges from hot and humid to cool and humid with humidity reaching up to 80% or more. So given these living conditions can we assume it is a natural environment for rust to develop along the years?


EVENTUALLY.

He said he reduced the price to support me better from $69.99 to $39.99 I was quite disappointed that he didn't respond to my initial question about the climate I live in being the factor of the rust. Do all companies charge their costumers when RMAing on Lifetime Warranties?



UPDATE IMAGES:






"


WHAT DO YOU THINK ?

More about : evga claims minor rust physical damage

a c 327 U Graphics card
a b 1 Email
December 13, 2012 8:43:53 PM

would file a class action lawsuit..sounds like there screwing him over. as i posted in the other thread just handling parts..nuts and bolts will rust do to the oils in your skin.
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a b U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 10:04:07 PM

smorizio said:
would file a class action lawsuit..sounds like there screwing him over. as i posted in the other thread just handling parts..nuts and bolts will rust do to the oils in your skin.


I do wish something good comes in his way from EVGA. The guys at HardOCP contributed some interesting stories of their own:

http://hardforum.com/showthread.php?p=1039420045&posted=1#post1039420045
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Related resources
December 13, 2012 11:03:49 PM

He has "Lifetime" warranty stuck in his head when its not "Lifetime" but "Limited Lifetime" meaning EVGA's decision is contingent on things like registering the product within 30 days of purchase and allows EVGA to deny warranties for damaged products and other common sense rules. <--

Still, the guy should consider himself lucky for getting 5 years out of it in a humid area. Normal wear and tear imo.





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December 13, 2012 11:06:25 PM

smorizio said:
would file a class action lawsuit..sounds like there screwing him over. as i posted in the other thread just handling parts..nuts and bolts will rust do to the oils in your skin.



To file a class action lawsuit would require him to find multiple people with the same problem and get everyone to agree to sue.

Not easy.
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December 13, 2012 11:06:42 PM

spartanmk2 said:
He has "Lifetime" warranty stuck in his head when its not "Lifetime" but "Limited Lifetime" meaning EVGA's decision is contingent on things like registering the product within 30 days of purchase and allows EVGA to deny warranties for damaged products and other common sense rules. <--

Still, the guy should consider himself lucky for getting 5 years out of it in a humid area. Normal wear and tear imo.



I completely agree.
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a b U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 11:08:43 PM

EVGA 8800GT that is a fairly old card it may be better just to get a new vga card then waste money on a "rusty" old card.
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a c 194 U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 11:23:13 PM

rust is environmental impact, would not be covered under warranty.
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a c 104 U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 11:24:12 PM

Warranties are for manufacturing defects. Operating electronics in extremely humid environments IS abuse, and it IS going to cause damage that is NOT the fault of the manufacturer.

I don't like EVGA, but the damage isn't their fault and I am sure they don't have a replacement for a 5 year old card laying around.
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a b U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 11:39:26 PM

unksol said:
Warranties are for manufacturing defects. Operating electronics in extremely humid environments IS abuse, and it IS going to cause damage that is NOT the fault of the manufacturer.

I don't like EVGA, but the damage isn't their fault and I am sure they don't have a replacement for a 5 year old card laying around.


iam2thecrowe said:
rust is environmental impact, would not be covered under warranty.



Okay, fine. But here with the OP, his failure of the card isn't related to the rusting, which is at the screws, and the connector shields. It is being used as THE excuse to deny warranty. One could easily argue in the favor of the OP that the plating by EVGA on the connector parts weren't PERFECT which leads to accelerated oxidization. A LOT of non-coated steel cases after a few years of use here in the NA starts to rust too.

2ndly, EVGA chose to sell their products with the warranty terms THEY specified, in an area they actively engage in (Puerto Rico). If they offer, and charge appropriately for a product that comes with a warranty, their product should be engineered to suit. If NOT, then the choice is clear, EVGA shouldn't offer a 5 year or "lifetime" warranty where as you have pointed out, it can be obvious.

You can't BOTH offer a lengthy warranty knowing the environment it will be used in (short of them adding a statement in the warranty terms about the relative humidity of the ambient, which is rather hard to control), AND claim that the result is not covered.
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a c 104 U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 11:55:27 PM

again. It is for manufacturing defects. Not for enviromental/acts of god/etc. Read the fine print. Getting 5 years out of a card in that environment is very good, and is probably why it died. I GUARANTEE that is outside its operating range according to the specs.

No one should be surprised. It doesn't make any sense for a company to take a hit and pass it on to all of us when someone uses a product out of operating spec.
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a b U Graphics card
December 13, 2012 11:57:35 PM

unksol said:
again. It is for manufacturing defects. Not for enviromental/acts of god/etc. Read the fine print. Getting 5 years out of a card in that environment is very good, and is probably why it died. I GUARANTEE that is outside its operating range according to the specs.

No one should be surprised. It doesn't make any sense for a company to take a hit and pass it on to all of us when someone uses a product out of operating spec.


Hypothetically, would improper plating causing accelerated wear be part of manufacturing defects ? Also, you MUST take into context that EVGA actively markets and sells that product where the expected humidity is high. So it should be considered "average" or "mean" usage scenario, certainly not out of the ordinary range.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 12:01:43 AM

Agree that would not be covered by any warranty. Nor should it be covered. Short of manufacturing defects it would not be covered.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 12:06:54 AM

bryonhowley said:
Agree that would not be covered by any warranty. Nor should it be covered. Short of manufacturing defects it would not be covered.


The point is, this matter must be considered in CONTEXT of the locale where it is brought up. EVGA markets and sells their products with whatever warranties they choose in this market, where the humidity IS THE NORM, and NOT OUT OF RANGE OR NORM.

In the NA, I would tentatively agree with you, but even then, it is a lame excuse for denial of warranty. Else where in the world, you NEED to examine the issue as PER THEIR CIRCUMSTANCE, which is different from ours. Humidity is the NORM most places down south. If you design a product there, you necessarily design it with that aspect in mind, since that is the NORM, and per-definition, normal usage.

Rust proofing in cars, for example follows a geographical trend. Depending on the intended market, the degree of rust proofing is expectedly different. Housing construction is different in NA depending on N-S geography, etc, etc... All these products comes with warranties that are VALID IN THEIR REGION.
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a c 104 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 12:08:55 AM

Maxx_Power said:
Hypothetically, would improper plating causing accelerated wear be part of manufacturing defects ? Also, you MUST take into context that EVGA actively markets and sells that product where the expected humidity is high. So it should be considered "average" or "mean" usage scenario, certainly not out of the ordinary range.


It doesn't matter. The warranty doesn't cover it. Its outside the specs. People sell products everywhere. Its your right to buy them, and its your right to use them how and where you want. The PURCHASER is responsible for buying what meets his needs and the PURCHASER is responsible for complying with the,warranty terms and operating specs.

You're basically arguing the card was wet and that's EVGAs fault. Or that EVGA should be psychic and not sell to people who won't follow the warranty terms. Neither makes any sense
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December 14, 2012 12:09:13 AM

Issue is, is the rust on the back aesthetic only? or the reason why the card failed. Could still be manufacturing defect which they're denying replacement for.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 12:15:35 AM

unksol said:
It doesn't matter. The warranty doesn't cover it. Its outside the specs. People sell products everywhere. Its your right to buy them, and its your right to use them how and where you want. The PURCHASER is responsible for buying what meets his needs and the PURCHASER is responsible for complying with the,warranty terms and operating specs.

You're basically arguing the card was wet and that's EVGAs fault. Or that EVGA should be psychic and not sell to people who won't follow the warranty terms. Neither makes any sense


Warranty NEVER SAID RUST explicitly. The quote is "original physical condition", which is fairly vague. The warranty also NEVER STATED that you can not use the product in the region where it is sold to prevent humidity.

You are exagerrating what I said. I never said the card was wet. The OP said he lived in the tropics, and I assumed the humidity MIGHT be a factor. FACT IS, I have/had lots of older electronics that either lacked proper galvanizing or powder coating, or the coating wore off, or wasn't properly applied to the edges that resulted in rust over the years. I can only imagine that in the tropics, this MAY BE worse.

There are components specified all the way from lowest grades to mil-spec for EACH part you can use in the construction of a piece of modern electronic. They are all specified for the intended usage. EVGA handles this engineering and testing, and backs it up with warranty.

What you are saying is, the regional warranty of EVGA for OP's region doesn't cover the most probable usage scenario.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 12:16:53 AM

zyky said:
Issue is, is the rust on the back aesthetic only? or the reason why the card failed. Could still be manufacturing defect which they're denying replacement for.


To the best of my understanding on behalf of the OP, the issue with the resting is restricted to the backplate (near the connectors) and some screw(s). It is, in my opinion (we'll confirm with some visuals soon), very cosmetic.
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December 14, 2012 12:23:47 AM

Here are the pictures for those of you who are interested
Pictures:

This is mostly dust as you can see on the fan blades, maybe the screw on the inside had rust but I definitely know that everything else is dust. I used compressed air as best as I could when cleaning this card but some places are hard to get.



Man, looking at those pictures again makes me feel a bit ripped off :(  What do you guys think? Does it warrant the $40 (reduced from $70) fee?


unksol said:
Quote:
You're basically arguing the card was wet and that's EVGAs fault. Or that EVGA should be psychic and not sell to people who won't follow the warranty terms. Neither makes any sense


Why would you assume that I didn't follow the warranty terms? The only terms where to register in less than 30 days to receive the full warranty. I registered the second day I got the product!

This is from my products page on EVGA:
Place Purchased: mWave
Purchase Date: 12/28/2007
Date Registered: 12/31/2007 11:06:26 AM


unksol said:
Quote:
I GUARANTEE that is outside its operating range according to the specs.

How did you come to that conclusion? And what do you define as operating range? Do you mean the GPU's range is outside of tropical climate? :heink: 

Before I decided to make my original post I browsed a lot and found quite some people with even more ridiculous situations. One guy was being charged $10 because his metal bracket had the numbers, 1 and 2 written with a black marker below the DVI ports to help him identify them for his dual monitor setup. It makes me wonder what the hell do those technicians do that they can't even rub some alcohol to wipe off the numbers.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 12:37:10 AM

Im assuming the warranty is against manufacturing defects. As said, environmental factors are just that. Factors.
It sounds like there was a reaction between metals.

Its shouldn't be covered by warranty.

In AUS, you can argue a "fit for purpose" warranty. Buy an expensive part with a 1 year warranty and it dies after 2 years, you can argue that even though the warranty has expired, you would expect that part to last a lot longer, and the gov't can enforce that if they agree.

5 years for a mid level GFX card is well beyond a "fit for purpose" warranty given the pace of computer hardware.
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December 14, 2012 12:49:55 AM

mrmez said:


5 years for a mid level GFX card is well beyond a "fit for purpose" warranty given the pace of computer hardware.



I honestly don't know what to think anymore. I have no idea the economical impact these companies have with their "limited lifetime warranties" but considering the fee I had to pay I guess its not beneficial for them. I remember when BFG was around, my first RMA ever was Geforce 6800oc, their response time was less than 24 hours as stated and the matter was resolved very quickly, plus they send me back a 6800 Ultra which for the time was just beyond amazing. But look what happened to them :(  Still, I was satisfied with the lifetime of the product itself and its durability but not with EVGA's warranty terms, they've gone down a notch in my book.
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December 14, 2012 1:08:19 AM

The way I look at the card lasted 5 years +1 for evga.

The card was rusted -5 to you.

I've lived in plenty of humid places and for a card to end up looking like that.. LOL. I don't blame EVGA one bit. Not to mention a video card.. 5 years.. Get over it.

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December 14, 2012 1:28:31 AM

kingnoobe said:
The way I look at the card lasted 5 years +1 for evga.

The card was rusted -5 to you.

I've lived in plenty of humid places and for a card to end up looking like that.. LOL. I don't blame EVGA one bit. Not to mention a video card.. 5 years.. Get over it.



I was satisfied with the overall lifetime of the product but not with the way their applying their warranty terms. Also, the original price for repair which was $70 was ridiculous for rust on some screws, I don't know if the technician just took pity on me or that he realized how preposterous the fee was but he reduced it to $40 in the end.

Clearly you've never lived in a tropical climate such as mine with the same hardware for 5 years.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 1:29:06 AM

mrmez said:
Im assuming the warranty is against manufacturing defects. As said, environmental factors are just that. Factors.
It sounds like there was a reaction between metals.

Its shouldn't be covered by warranty.

In AUS, you can argue a "fit for purpose" warranty. Buy an expensive part with a 1 year warranty and it dies after 2 years, you can argue that even though the warranty has expired, you would expect that part to last a lot longer, and the gov't can enforce that if they agree.

5 years for a mid level GFX card is well beyond a "fit for purpose" warranty given the pace of computer hardware.


THat's what the rust pattern looks like to me. It looks like a reaction between the different metals (galvanic corrosion, which was my initial guess). Maybe the plate material for the screw and the spring coil are dissimilar, or that the screw was insufficiently plated to endure the screwing action and scraping action of the surfaces during manufacturing.

NOW THAT I THINK ABOUT IT, a LOT of older generation cards that ran really hot dating back to the 8000 and 7000 series (think the old 7600gt and 8800 series) had some dark coloured screws on the backplate that were poorly/thinly plated. I had a 7600gt (EVGA), 2x7600gs (XFX), 1 8800GTS (BFG) and 1 8800GT (Galaxy), and I do think there were some minor rusting on some of the screws. I had to RMA my XFX 7600gs twice, XFX didn't mind it. I sold the 7600gt and the 8800GT/GTS, so that was the end of those.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 1:37:58 AM

lpedraja2002 said:
I was satisfied with the overall lifetime of the product but not with the way their applying their warranty terms. Also, the original price for repair which was $70 was ridiculous for rust on some screws, I don't know if the technician just took pity on me or that he realized how preposterous the fee was but he reduced it to $40 in the end.

Clearly you've never lived in a tropical climate such as mine with the same hardware for 5 years.



I think there is a clear, scientific way to resolve this issue for those who does think the environment is responsible (and even then, I'd argue it is the responsibility of EVGA, much like rust-proofing production cars sold in the snow belt by the manufacturer to last through the "rust perforation" warranty period):

take some pictures of the computer you used the card in, and show that the screws in the computer NOT on the EVGA card are not rusted. This way, we KNOW SCIENTIFICALLY that the screws/springs EVGA used are not properly acclimated to the environment it is sold in.
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a c 327 U Graphics card
a b 1 Email
December 14, 2012 1:38:40 AM

as a pc tech that does not look like rust in the photo but tobacco colored dust. google images and you see the color is close to a rust color. also depending on the area where you live it might be clay dust. I would ask them to blow the card out with some high pressure air and see if the gunk falls off. if it does it was dust. and dust is not going to cause a faulre.
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December 14, 2012 1:42:31 AM

smorizio said:
as a pc tech that does not look like rust in the photo but tobacco colored dust. google images and you see the color is close to a rust color. also depending on the area where you live it might be clay dust. I would ask them to blow the card out with some high pressure air and see if the gunk falls off. if it does it was dust. and dust is not going to cause a faulre.



Well, no one in my house smokes, I think you mean the color of the dust? Well my friend I can surely tell you that Saharan Dust (that's what its called here) is a major player here to make it look like that. I know this from experience, it doesn't happen in a week, it takes some time but as time passes and we get hit by more of the dust you'll end up with dust that looks like that. I have only seen it when I clean the top shelves that are near windows in my house and guess where my PC was all these years?
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December 14, 2012 1:45:20 AM

Maxx_Power said:
I think there is a clear, scientific way to resolve this issue for those who does think the environment is responsible (and even then, I'd argue it is the responsibility of EVGA, much like rust-proofing production cars sold in the snow belt by the manufacturer to last through the "rust perforation" warranty period):

take some pictures of the computer you used the card in, and show that the screws in the computer NOT on the EVGA card are not rusted. This way, we KNOW SCIENTIFICALLY that the screws/springs EVGA used are not properly acclimated to the environment it is sold in.



Hmm... interesting, I do not believe the other screws inside my case are affected by rust. I will take pictures this weekend when I have the time, thanks for the suggestion. I already payed the repair fee but I will include all of this in the review link they give you when the RMA process is over.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 1:45:25 AM

evga sucks, but com'on man!!! 5 years out of a gfx card and you want THEM to replace it???

find a side job and get a new card
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December 14, 2012 1:55:03 AM

badtaylorx said:
evga sucks, but com'on man!!! 5 years out of a gfx card and you want THEM to replace it???

find a side job and get a new card


I wouldn't say they suck, the product did last for 5 years. I was expecting them to replace it yes, I was under the impression that this is what the "limited lifetime warranty" was supposed to do and considering I've never RMA'd the card before I figured I wouldn't have a problem replacing it. Plus, you have to go through tech support and explain the situation to them before the RMA even begins, so the approval for replacement was confirmed and processed by them.

So yeah, I expect companies who promote their warranties with the words "lifetime" in them to replace it after 5 years.
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a b U Graphics card
December 15, 2012 1:21:24 PM

In retrospect, EVGA must think pretty high of their own screws by asking you 40$ to proceed with the RMA on the account of rusty screws...

EVGA products are never cheap to purchase upfront, but who would have thought they employed 40$ screws? AND THEY RUST!
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a b U Graphics card
December 15, 2012 3:57:04 PM

really wasnt worth rmaing in the first place. better off telling them to keep the thing and credit you towards a new evga card or something. get a 550ti or something the are cheap and do a good job with the newer games.
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a b U Graphics card
December 15, 2012 5:27:46 PM

06yfz450ridr said:
really wasnt worth rmaing in the first place. better off telling them to keep the thing and credit you towards a new evga card or something. get a 550ti or something the are cheap and do a good job with the newer games.


I think logically this might have been part of the reason why XFX and EVGA have largely stopped the practice of "lifetime" warranties. On the other hand, we've got a slippery slope here with Seagate, Western Digital, Toshiba, Samsung, etc going with only 1 year warranty on their consumer oriented, large volume hard drives, which is in my opinion, retarded.
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April 1, 2013 12:45:37 PM

Maxx_Power said:
06yfz450ridr said:
really wasnt worth rmaing in the first place. better off telling them to keep the thing and credit you towards a new evga card or something. get a 550ti or something the are cheap and do a good job with the newer games.


I think logically this might have been part of the reason why XFX and EVGA have largely stopped the practice of "lifetime" warranties. On the other hand, we've got a slippery slope here with Seagate, Western Digital, Toshiba, Samsung, etc going with only 1 year warranty on their consumer oriented, large volume hard drives, which is in my opinion, retarded.



It seems I forgot to reply with the outcome but since you were very helpful I will tell you. So in the end, I payed the fee which was about $40 I believe but considering I already payed like $30 for shipping I told the EVGA customer rep that for the price I would have been better off buying a brand new 9800gt from Amazon which at the the time cost like $60, I sent him the link to prove it and I asked him If he would consider upgrading the card If I payed a little more, he replied back telling me he would RMA back a GTX550Ti as a "complementary" update. So that's what I've been using ever since and its a pretty good card, it gives almost twice the performance of an 8800gt, so I guess it kind of worked out in the end.

As for your suggestion on checking weather other parts of the case developed rust, well I did check and it did have rust! The screws on the Antec 900, the "gold" metal backside on my X-Fi Xtreme Music, the only thing that I think won't be affected is the overall case (Antec 900) since it is painted black so I guess that gives it some protection. But yeah I'm unlucky as hell, but still I do not believe that the rust cause the malfunction on the video card since basically all my other components have it in some way or the other and they're not affected by it, although the video card is taxed way more in games but still.

I was gonna buy a GTX660Ti but ever since they announced the PS4 I figured I will just wait until the new console arrive and fully upgrade my PC by then so I can still have a kick ass PC compared to the current gen consoles.

Sorry for the ever so late reply but I wanted to thank you for all the help you gave me. Have a good day! :) 
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