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Would you pay $248 for MSI TF HD 7950 refurb?

Last response: in Graphics & Displays
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December 14, 2012 1:18:08 PM

Would you buy this or would you feel like your chances of getting ripped off are too high?
Amazon Refurbished MSI AMD Radeon HD 7950 TWIN FROZR 3GD5/OC GDDR5 DVI/HDMI/2xMini DisplayPort PCI-Express

It's through a 3rd party vendor on Amazon

I'm very tempted but nervous.
a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 1:40:11 PM

what r u going to use it for?
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December 14, 2012 1:46:24 PM

dheeraj9933 said:
what r u going to use it for?


Just gaming in 1920 x 1080p on a single monitor and a little BluRay. Playing WoW, Civ V, Boarderlands 2 and I'll pick up some FPS at some point. I'm also waiting for the next Sim City to come out Plus whatever catches my eye in 2013. I would like to be able to overclock and possibly xfire it at some point but maybe not.

Edit: It's not the HD 7950 part that concerns me, it's the refurb part through a 3rd party vendor on Amazon that I'm concerned about.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 2:01:28 PM

well the seller is a famous one and has 98% ratings.
so it shouldn;t be a problem.
but on a side note u dont need a 7950 for 1080p gaming.
a 7870 or a GTX660 will be fine.
and with 2-3 years warranty!! which u dont get with THIS card.
if u dont want a 7950 that bad
and just want ot game on 1080p a 7870 will do just fine, infact really good.

PS: i dont think u r getting ripped off. a new one is just 50 bucks more
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December 14, 2012 2:45:13 PM

dheeraj9933 said:
well the seller is a famous one and has 98% ratings.
so it shouldn;t be a problem.
but on a side note u dont need a 7950 for 1080p gaming.
a 7870 or a GTX660 will be fine.
and with 2-3 years warranty!! which u dont get with THIS card.
if u dont want a 7950 that bad
and just want ot game on 1080p a 7870 will do just fine, infact really good.

PS: i dont think u r getting ripped off. a new one is just 50 bucks more



Well I was going to go with the 7950 just to future proof a little and that price caught my attention, but yea, the 7870 has been on my list as well.

Edit: miss read your post. It's not the price I was worried about it was the 3rd party vendor selling refurbished goods through Amazon. Not sure I trust them. On Newegg it's $320 + $7.87 shipping so about $70 more. I never count rebates in purchase price.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 3:04:09 PM

ibjeepr said:
Well I was going to go with the 7950 just to future proof a little and that price caught my attention, but yea, the 7870 has been on my list as well.

Edit: miss read your post. It's not the price I was worried about it was the 3rd party vendor selling refurbished goods through Amazon. Not sure I trust them. On Newegg it's $320 + $7.87 shipping so about $70 more. I never count rebates in purchase price.

if u want to take a small risk then u can.
but i would still play it safe and get a 7870 that will last 3 years at least in ultra too + 2-3 years warranty.
i say just go with a 7870 its the best and safest option
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December 14, 2012 3:13:07 PM

I wouldn't buy it because it only has a 90 day warranty. All these new cards come with at least 2 years on them, and I'd expect that a refurbished model would have an even higher probability of breaking than a regular one. Maybe if it was a really good deal, but for $50 I wouldn't chance it. I guess the question for you is, "Do I feel lucky?"
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December 14, 2012 3:21:11 PM

Ok, you guys convinced me. I'll go 7870 if you think it'll do Ultra at 1920x1080 and be good for a couple years.

Which one would you get and I don't think I'd spend more than $250 for a 7870?
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 3:24:33 PM

7870 at ultra in 3 years? Did you not look at the far cry 3 benchmark today? It didn't look very good at ultra. I have one and wish I would have spent more for a 670. Don't let anyone talk you down. Get at least a 7950.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 3:28:42 PM

7950 is barely enough for 1080. I don't know about you but when I play I like all the candies on.
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December 14, 2012 3:43:52 PM

Ooooh, what to do... The 670 is simply out of my price range. The low end of the 7950 prices is the best I can do.

Do I buy a cheap card and wait for the 7xx, 8xxx or get a low priced 7950 and hold out for a year or 2.... tonight my 560 Ti will be sold and I'll be running on integrated video :( 
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 3:49:51 PM

wanderer11 said:
7870 at ultra in 3 years? Did you not look at the far cry 3 benchmark today? It didn't look very good at ultra. I have one and wish I would have spent more for a 670. Don't let anyone talk you down. Get at least a 7950.

ooooooooo another Far cry 3 "graphics" fan :pfff: 
look at the xbox 360 version of it and then look at an ultra settings 1080p pc version.
the difference is so less u might not even know.
so y is it?
is it bcoz the old outdated and slow xenos chip in the 360 is a lot powerful than the gtx660?
AC3 was criticized for bad optimisation for pc as soon as it came out coz there were a lot of bugs and glitches and HUGE fps drops in places.
but far cry 3 didn't have those. Just low performance in fast cards.
u know y?
BAD OPTIMISATION
the game is not that awesome to look at honestly, it's just that the game itself was awesome that makes it hard to criticize, but a FACT is a FACT
and 7870 will be awesome in 1080p look at BF3 a demanding title in truth,
witcher 2 a game for the PC's made specially for the PC, THAT game is awesome to look at and 7870 is just awesome in 1080p.
look at arkham city and any other good optimised game.
people like u were the people that said 30FPS in my GTX690 is not playable in AC3, i'm used to 60FPS!!
u know what u r just an idiot not worth talking to,
far cry 3 is badly optimised and that is the end of it.
and low performance due to bad optimisation is not a cards fault Mr.

and also if u think that 7870 is not a good card for 1080p, u shouldn't be on this forum
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 5:16:01 PM

Calm down dheeraj9933. A lot of games are badly optimized. That is the reason for needing a more powerful card. My 7870 gets 40 fps min at 1920x1080 in bf3 with aa off. It could definitely do better. For some people 40 fps minimums are not good. Like I said earlier I wish I got a more powerful card.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 5:39:35 PM

yeah i'm pretty upset about the bad optimizations lately.
and BF3 is a nvidia title, why dont u see 660's performance in HITMAN?
and wat about the rest of the games? like skyrim or witcher 2 or metro 2033.
i guess u need to have a console too, if u want decent performance in ALL games
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December 14, 2012 5:52:46 PM

Oh bloody hell.... I want an HD 7950 at the HD 7870's price.... which leave's me with the refurb, that I'm not comfortable buying.... maybe a 660 Ti is the best compromise? I don't know. I probably should have just hung on to my 560 Ti (overclocked to 970 core, 4080 mem) until the next gen was released but I got antsy. Sh*t

What to do?
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a c 109 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:00:16 PM

The 660 ti is better than the 7950, i don't see the drama in going with a 660 ti, when it's better, runs cooler, has a lower power consumption, better drivers and you'll be familiar with the card since you'd a previous nvidia card.
Best 660 ti for now at cheapest price :

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:00:48 PM

no a 660ti is almost 300$!!!
for that u can get a new 7950
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E168...
but like i said 7870 is a great card dont listen to wanderer 11
http://benchmark3d.com/amd-catalyst-12-1-preview-driver...
see for yourself.
if u can spend 300 go for a new 7950 not the 660ti
or just stick with a 7870, as seen in the benchmarks, it is great card for the price.
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-car...
u can see what toms hardware says about it.
abd the 7950
http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gaming-graphics-car...
again if u can 7950 or a 7870 is fine too.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:04:55 PM

I have a 7870 and I'm telling you it's not powerful enough for me @ 1920x1080. If OP can afford it get a 7950 or 660ti. OP get that refurbished 7950, if it has some kind of warranty. When you get it do some stress tests to make sure it won't die on.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:05:00 PM

spend the extra $50 and get a new one, they also come with 3 free games at the moment.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:07:19 PM

djangoringo said:
The 660 ti is better than the 7870 by far, and slightly better than the 7950 :

http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-ge...
http://techreport.com/review/24022/does-the-radeon-hd-7...
http://techreport.com/review/24051/geforce-versus-radeo...


Not to mention, it has better drivers, low noise and temps vs 7950(they're loud with whine coil problems and have higher temps).


i just setup a 7950 a couple days ago. it was very quiet, cool, and had no "coil whine".
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:11:47 PM

660ti is slightly expensive than the 7950 so if it is slightly better, there is nothing to be proud of.
and a 7950 and 7870 are better overclocks too.
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a c 109 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:16:51 PM

daswilhelm said:
i just setup a 7950 a couple days ago. it was very quiet, cool, and had no "coil whine".



I mean the sapphire, gigabyte ones does have what i described.
I can't understand when someone recommends a nvidia card, there's always guys saying to avoid like the plague as if the nvidia cards are the worse ones, just get it, the nvidia cards if offered the same performance are the better ones, they offer more smoothness, better drivers, lower power consumption, overall better experience.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:18:29 PM

i setup a sapphire, still don't see your point.

if every card they sold had these problems you stated, they wouldn't sell many cards would they?
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a c 109 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:22:02 PM

Did you ever go to newegg or other forums?
Cause there're several people with coil whine from 7950/7970 from sapphire, gigabyte...
There's also several problems with the 7870 with freezes, black screens problems.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:24:28 PM

yes i do. 'several people' out of how many cards have they produced? like you've never seen a nvidia card with a problem before? these cards are massed produced, no matter what make/brand you buy, theres a chance it will have a problem.
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a c 109 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:37:32 PM

The 660 ti series are barely audible even at load.
E.G :

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Ti_Direc...


Nvidia cards are far less noisy, and with less problems that there's on the amd part.
I'm just saying if it was me, i choose the 660 ti gtx at any day over the 7950.
For me when choosing a card it's not just the benchmarks around the web.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:52:13 PM

djangoringo said:
The 660 ti series are barely audible even at load.
E.G :

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/ASUS/GeForce_GTX_660_Ti_Direc...


Nvidia cards are far less noisy, and with less problems that there's on the amd part.
I'm just saying if it was me, i choose the 660 ti gtx at any day over the 7950.
For me when choosing a card it's not just the benchmarks around the web.



ok, so theres a pic of FAN NOISE. you do understand many manufacturers use different fans/coolers right? also, the 660ti in question is from asus, the only noted manufactuer in the list, so im assuming the rest of the cards are reference design.
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a c 109 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 6:58:50 PM

I was just pointing the card i recommend to him and the fan noise at load.
Wasn't saying that the 7950 in there is a sapphire one, or gigabyte...
For me, and from previous experience from amd, i always have preference for nvidia cards, even when they're 5% slower(debatable), i take a nvdia card over amd.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 7:02:24 PM

well, it is pretty clear you prefer nvidia cards. still waiting for a valid reason thou.
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December 14, 2012 7:54:14 PM

So there really is no clear answer here. I have no preference, except I prefer the best at the best price I can afford. The Price breakdown seems pretty well divided between chipsets and manufacturer. (using Newegg and eliminting the most expensive cards in each group usually because that's where the next best chipset starts)
HD 7850 $180-$230 range approx.
GTX 660 $200-$260 range approx.
HD 7870 $215-$270 range approx.
GTX 660 Ti $270-$330 range approx.
HD 7950 $290-$340 range approx.
GTX 670 $360-$400 range approx.
HD 7970 $380-$430 range approx.
GTX 680 $440 starting

I would rank the cards at pretty much exactly at how they are priced.

Tom's groups them as AMD to next most expensive Nvidia group giving AMD the slight value and performance edge.

This new "frame latency" method says Nvidia gives a smoother game play experience at slightly lower ave. FPS. I'm not totally buying into that either. Remove the spikes from the graph and you see AMD actually has the smoother latency line which leads me to believe AMD is a driver fix from curing a questionably noticeable problem.

Then there is the "this game prefers this card" situation. I probably play games from both camps so I want the one that does the overall best, not just the best in a certain game.

At this point based on price either the 660 Ti or a low end HD 7950 is the choice.

I've owned both brands and have had no issue with either.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 7:58:13 PM

it seems you have done your research, get whatever card makes you happy, and im sure you will enjoy it.
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 8:02:29 PM

Quote:
and BF3 is a nvidia title


So far from the truth it's funny! Did you really say that? In no way shape or form does EA/Dice sponsor nVidia nor does nVidia sponsors EA/Dice. In fact BF3 uses the Havok physics engine (which Intel owns).

And all the current benchmarks show that AMD cards outperform the nVidia counterparts in most games including BF3.

***OP, the price on the 7950 is fair. Go for it...***
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a b U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 8:04:36 PM

get a 7950,
a cheap 7950 is "STILL A 7950"
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a c 109 U Graphics card
December 14, 2012 8:13:07 PM

See a recent benchmark that favors amd 7950, it has the newest drivers vs old drivers from nvidia :

http://tpucdn.com/reviews/AMD/Catalyst_12.11_Performanc...


It's 2% more than a 660 ti (but was less without the recent driver, nvidia now has a 310.70 driver that boost performance for kepler cards).
Now between a cheap 7950 vs a good 660 ti, is it worth going with the cheapest when it still costs more than a good 660ti ?
The asus 660 ti has really good cooling and low noise, unbeatable by any 7950 card whatever the brand.
And there's the fact nvidia has better drivers, exclusive features, more stability, more smoothness, more percentile fps.
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December 14, 2012 11:09:54 PM

First, refurb products!!! is a NO for me, why living a nightmare about how long my GPU going to live?? get a new one with 3yrs warranty..

When it comes to nVidia vs AMD there is always a debate, some prefers AMD for the price, others prefers nVdia for the driver support...etc
here is a benchmark report that may help you through ur choice
http://techreport.com/review/23419/nvidia-geforce-gtx-6...

Well, the question is, does the price matter to you? or would you lean toward performance/stability/driver support? that's a call u have to make.
Am a big fan of nVidia cards because of my long time personal experience as they never fail me at any aspect, besides they are great with drivers support never forgetting their other extra features like PhysX, TXAA implementation..etc.

Lately AMD made a huge jump regarding drivers but yet these drivers didn't give the performance the driver promised, infact I saw guys rolling back to older driver versions because of performance issues like black screens, spikes in FPS.....etc. so they wait for a new driver to comes out or even a BIOS update to test it & get the performance they wanted, for me with AMD chasing drivers like this is like chasing a ghost... been using nVidia for 5 yrs & I remember updating my BIOS once & it was the latest til the moment.

Adding an example, HD7870 & any other equivalent nVidia card has a price difference of ~50$ so, if the extra 50$ can save me from all the troubles & spare me the headache that may be caused by any AMD card, well I guess paying 300$ for something that last long with no issues as nVidia is much better than paying 240$ for something troublesome & so your 240$ will be gone for nothing (a total waste)

& to help you with brand picking here's actual data got from a large French retailer.

Return rates by AIB manufacturer:
- Sapphire 1.32% (as against 1.7%)
- ASUS 1.55% (as against 1.3%)
- PNY 1.62% (as against 1.0%)
- Club 3D 2.14% (as against 1.9%)
- Zotac 2.18% (as against 2.1%)
- Gigabyte 2.18% (as against 1.6%)
- MSI 2.25% (N/A)
- Gainward 2.43% (N/A)

that's not to say this manufacturer is better than that. One can get a DOA card from any manufacturer,but your chances are slim... fortunately.

here is another benchmark comparing HD7950 & 660TI when playing Assassin's Creed III which is a demanding game regarding graphics....etc
http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-ge...
You can see how spiky the HD7950 is!!! spikes that show in many games not just AC III.

You can compare cards specs here, it will give you a clue
http://www.gpureview.com/show_cards.php?card1=670&card2...

Am building a new gaming rig & was advised to get AMD 7870 for the price reason but I changed my mind & will stick to my gaming partner nVidia even if the price is higher, this is a risk am willing to take just to keep my head free of any aches of driver updating ghost chasing nightmares.

The choice is yours, wish you the best...
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a b U Graphics card
December 15, 2012 11:28:59 PM

You nVidia guys are great... and the analogy of the "boogie man" gave me a good chuckle.

Quote:
just to keep my head free of any aches of driver updating ghost chasing nightmares.


Atleast if you're going to show benchmarks show recent ones and not ones from August.

12.11 beta vs 310.33 beta

http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/11/12/fall_2012_gpu...







Quote:
Middle pricing band – This pricing band was far less competitive as the Radeon HD 7950 with Boost simply demolished the GTX 660 Ti across the board with regards to raw frame rates and overall game play experience across our suite of testing.


They said it, I didn't. It's no fun when the rabbit has the gun!

Quote:
but I changed my mind & will stick to my gaming partner nVidia even if the price is higher


Spoken like a true fan... pay more for less (Unless you count the gimmicks of course). Nevermind that Kepler's compute performance is so dismal the previous Fermi cards pwn them.

In a nutshell, there is no reason to go with Kepler. Radeon 7xxx series > GTX 6xx series then when you figure in Compute the gap widens even further.

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December 16, 2012 8:47:51 PM

My articles are not old, in the next 2 articles the 660Ti still beats HD7950 & both articles are published this month (not in November):
http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-ge...
http://www.hardocp.com/article/2012/12/12/assassins_cre...

I've been in the struggle myself between these 2 & I read too many articles. What it seems to be right that AMD is better than nVidia in some games & vice versa. What I understood from all my readings.. frame rate is not the only factor that affect general gameplay, GPU latency plays a role & even ur CPU plays a role like in AC III.

If you read the whole article about assassin's creed III in the second link you will find nVidia TXAA technology has a great impact on gameplay experience which is something AMD can't beat (according to the article provided). If future games use this TXAA, well AMD has to do something about it, but when is that gonna be?

I might sound like a big nVidia fan, well.. I am because of a long time experience, not just me...many others share the same experience. As a customer, I like to buy stuff that cause me less trouble, consumes less power, great driver support & give me the experience I want even if it adds an extra 50$. I hate going to PC shops, mailing companies about GPU problems or getting disappointed by a GPU that didn't meet my needs.

Just find the game u wanna play & read the benchmarks about it, but what most agree to in many articles that nVidia provides better smoothness than AMD even if AMD beats nVidia in FPS. For example, nVidia is better than AMD in handling games like AC III & FarCry 3 & COD Black Ops2, while AMD is better than nVidia in others like Battlefield3, Hitman Absolution & MOH Warfighter, tho the difference between AMD & nVidia is fractions. The HD 7970 outperformed the GTX 680 in BF3 by a 16.9% margin, even though there was no noticeable difference in game play performance.

Last, if you want to just play ur game at a satisfactory setting well buy a card at ur price range like HD7870 which will run for ex. AC III @ 30+ FPS & so it'll push you to go from 8XMSAA to 4X or even 2X @2560x1600, but if you want/insist on playing ur game at max/ultra settings then you need a monster GPU like 7970, GTX 690 or you can even wait til 7990 is released. My point is, do you want 8XMSAA in every game you play? what resolution do you prefer? how much are you willing to pay & how long do you want ur GPU to last.
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