Need GPU for gaming rig

[austenw23]

I need a good GPU for gaming pc build. I know nothing about them and need your guys' help. My budget for my whole computer will be roughly $1000 Canadian, I'll be buying a monitor, keyboard, and mouse with that too. Just lemme know what a good graphics card is for games such as:

Black Ops II
Minecraft
League of Legends
Runescape

I want to be able to run these games on nice graphics and have a smooth frame rate (50+)

 

[Azn Cracker]

so how much do you have to spend on the graphics card? I think a radeon 7870 or a radeon 7950 will suit your needs. Will be able to max out black ops

7870: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161404

7950: http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814202006

Or if you are a fan of nvidia gpus. Get the gtx 670. Although it is on par with the 7950 but costs a little more. The only advantage on the nvidia card i can think of is phys x
compatibility.

http://www.newegg.ca/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814130782

 

[Derza10]

I would say either the GTX 660, GTX 660 Ti, or GTX 670 depending on how much you want to spend. The radeons will give you very slightly higher FPS but the nvidias will be smoother.

 

[Azn Cracker]

I would say either the GTX 660, GTX 660 Ti, or GTX 670 depending on how much you want to spend. The radeons will give you very slightly higher FPS but the nvidias will be smoother.

do you mean smoother as in more fps? Because i think the only thing nvidia has over amd is phys x. The graphics itself depend on the game engine.

 

[Derza10]

do you mean smoother as in more fps? Because i think the only thing nvidia has over amd is phys x. The graphics itself depend on the game engine.

No i mean as in a lot less frame latency. I'll find you the benchmarks.

EDIT: http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-geforce-gtx-660-ti-revisited

You can watch the videos of the 2 here also to see the difference.

http://www.techpowerup.com/177173/HD-7950-May-Give-Higher-Framerates-but-GTX-660-Ti-Still-Smoother-Report.html

 

[Sunius]

At 1000 CAD with monitor included, you're looking at GTX 660. Something like this would work great:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($220.90 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.16 @ DirectCanada)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($33.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ NCIX)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($199.99 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Zalman Z9 Plus ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX)
Monitor: Asus VS247H-P 23.6" Monitor ($159.99 @ Canada Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($96.99 @ Computer Valley)
Total: $1035.98
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-12-18 11:34 EST-0500)

Also, I'd advice getting an aftermarket CPU cooler later (in 1 year maybe?) so you could overclock the CPU to get extra performance.

 

[Azn Cracker]

No i mean as in a lot less frame latency. I'll find you the benchmarks.

EDIT: http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-geforce-gtx-660-ti-revisited

You can watch the videos of the 2 here also to see the difference.

http://www.techpowerup.com/177173/HD-7950-May-Give-Higher-Framerates-but-GTX-660-Ti-Still-Smoother-Report.html

hmm wouldn't you only notice that if you slow if down like the videos? I go down to the comments of that article and everyone says they don't even notice it.

But it just sounds like a compatibility/driver issue and skyrim is not one of the games op listed.

 

[Derza10]

hmm wouldn't you only notice that if you slow if down like the videos? I go down to the comments of that article and everyone says they don't even notice it.

But it just sounds like a compatibility/driver issue and skyrim is not one of the games op listed.

Did you look at the other link? The one that showed the results from 7 different games? I would much rather have smoother gameplay then 1-3 fps...

And the comments are from people that have radeons and not Nvidias, when you have nothing to compare to sure you won't know the difference.

 

[Azn Cracker]

Did you look at the other link? The one that showed the results from 7 different games? I would much rather have smoother gameplay then 1-3 fps...

And the comments are from people that have radeons and not Nvidias, when you have nothing to compare to sure you won't know the difference.

Ok i did read the second article. The bench marks do indeed show that the latency is higher on the radeon. But the first comment of the article tells you why the test might be wrong/flawed. It has a lot of thumbs up so unless you are accusing that site to be full of fanboys, i think he MAY have a valid argument.

Anyways i giggled up some more forum pages and people switching from amd to nvidia, and nvidia to amd did not notice anything. So i think this latency issue is only noticeable if you put the game in slow motion.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=372262


Also I know you did not accuse me of being a fan boy, but I want to make it clear that I am not one for I am currently using a nvidia card.

 

[Derza10]

Ok i did read the second article. The bench marks do indeed show that the latency is higher on the radeon. But the first comment of the article tells you why the test might be wrong/flawed. It has a lot of thumbs up so unless you are accusing that site to be full of fanboys, i think he MAY have a valid argument.

Anyways i giggled up some more forum pages and people switching from amd to nvidia, and nvidia to amd did not notice anything. So i think this latency issue is only noticeable if you put the game in slow motion.

http://forums.guru3d.com/showthread.php?t=372262


Also I know you did not accuse me of being a fan boy, but I want to make it clear that I am not one for I am currently using a nvidia card.

What is your link showing? I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion that its only in slow motion... You can read many older articles where the testers will mention these issues but don't have the benchmarks to prove it till now... It isn't unplayable by any means but it is there, and can be seen in normal gameplay.

 

[burntpizza]

No i mean as in a lot less frame latency. I'll find you the benchmarks.

EDIT: http://techreport.com/review/23981/radeon-hd-7950-vs-geforce-gtx-660-ti-revisited

You can watch the videos of the 2 here also to see the difference.

http://www.techpowerup.com/177173/HD-7950-May-Give-Higher-Framerates-but-GTX-660-Ti-Still-Smoother-Report.html

Turn the flip quenue to 1, and there is a huge improvement in ltency and spikesl. Its likely a skyrim problem

Before quenue 1

After quenue 1

Just a minor technical oversight/driver issue it look like. Easy to fix


Personal tests: R7970 downclocked to R7950 level and no such stuttering detected: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2289641&highlight=



http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2289641&highlight=



To op get a Radeon hd 7870, that sthe best perform for your $

 

[Derza10]

Turn the flip quenue to 1, and there is no stutter at all. Its a skyrim problem

Before quenue 1

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/ICDP/FlipQueuedefault_zps109368db.png

After quenue 1

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b58/ICDP/FlipQueue1_zps815a7e95.png


Just a minor technical issue it look like.

http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2289641&highlight=

What about the other 6 games they tested?... it isn't just skyrim. And i know its driver issues... but that changes nothing... its still there and drivers need to be fixed. I have a feeling when they do "fix" it the FPS of the radeon cards will suffer some.

 

[iceclock]

sunius build is quite decent. id say go with this unless u prefer amd

 

[burntpizza]

What about the other 6 games they tested?... it isn't just skyrim.

Their old results which says radeon hd 7950 is as smooth as GTX 660 ti completely contradicts their new findings.
Most likely cause

1. Driver issue, 12.11 is still in beta, AMD says there is some work needed


There are many tests floating around say that it is a flip quenue error that causes the latency.

 

[iceclock]

eh its always bugs or performance issues that need to get fixed, nothing new here.

both cards are great, to me its whatevers cheaper atm that counts.

because either way ur gonna have a solid card.

 

[Azn Cracker]

What is your link showing? I'm not sure how you are coming to the conclusion that its only in slow motion... You can read many older articles where the testers will mention these issues but don't have the benchmarks to prove it till now... It isn't unplayable by any means but it is there, and can be seen in normal gameplay.

The link i posted is a forum thread where some of the members say that they did not notice the latency issue when they switched from amd to nvidia or when they switched from nvidia to amd. I posted that link because you said people have nothing to compare their cards to, thats why it isn't noticeable. Im coming to the conclusion that you only notice the stutter in slow motion because people say they don't notice it. I can claim i don't notice it either. I played on my cousin's rig which has an amd card and compared it to mine, which has an nvidia card and did not notice any of the latency issues.

 

[Derza10]

Their old results which says radeon hd 7950 is as smooth as GTX 660 ti completely contradicts their new findings.
Most likely cause

1. Driver issue, 12.11 is still in beta, AMD says there is some work needed


There are many tests floating around say that it is a flip quenue error that causes the latency.

Even with the flip quenue setting changed you still see those big spikes in those graphs..

 

[iceclock]

eh its possible of this error, but amd card or nvidia has nothing to do with it, mostly a bug in drivers or the game and videocard having issues.

but for the most part cards seem to be lag free here if u got the right gear.

 

[sam_p_lay]

What's significant here is not the inconsistency of the Radeon (that's nothing new) but how well the GTX660 Ti does (which is something new). It was pointed out that previous testing showed both delivering inconsistent performance. In some games, Radeons were more consistent and in others GeForces were. Now, the situation has changed. Radeons didn't get any worse - GeForces got better.

When TR approached AMD and nVidia about a year ago to discuss the stuttering, both companies said they were aware of the issue and working hard to resolve it. nVidia said they actually had a project specifically aimed at more consistent framerate delivery. What we're seeing here may be the effect of that project, delivered through drivers. That's purely a guess, but I can't see any other way that hardware that previously delivered inconsistent performance is now silky smooth.

AMD may be able to achieve the same effect, but there's no way of knowing for certain. What we do know is that nVidia has already achieved it.

 

[Derza10]

What's significant here is not the inconsistency of the Radeon (that's nothing new) but how well the GTX660 Ti does (which is something new). It was pointed out that previous testing showed both delivering inconsistent performance. In some games, Radeons were more consistent and in others GeForces were. Now, the situation has changed. Radeons didn't get any worse - GeForces got better.

When TR approached AMD and nVidia about a year ago to discuss the stuttering, both companies said they were aware of the issue and working hard to resolve it. nVidia said they actually had a project specifically aimed at more consistent framerate delivery. What we're seeing here may be the effect of that project, delivered through drivers. That's purely a guess, but I can't see any other way that hardware that previously delivered inconsistent performance is now silky smooth.

AMD may be able to achieve the same effect, but there's no way of knowing for certain. What we do know is that nVidia has already achieved it.

^ exactly!

 

[sam_p_lay]

And with regards to an inability to tell the difference, I think it's important to consider longevity / 'future-proofing'. A 7950 will look absolutely fine in most of today's games, but the frame latency problems will become much more noticeable as games become more demanding and framerates on these cards get lower with future games. To illustrate:

Today's games
- GeForce is rendering frames consistency at 12.5ms (equivalent to 80fps).
- Radeon is rendering frames inconsistently, varying from 10ms to 15ms (average is 83fps, range is 66fps to 100fps).
- Both cards are flawless.

Tomorrow's games*
- GeForce is rendering frames consistently at 25ms (equivalent to a consistently smooth 40fps).
- Radeon is rendering frames at between 20ms and 30ms (equivalent to fluctuations between 30fps and 50fps).
- GeForce delivers a much smoother, more consistently responsive experience.

* obviously nobody can predict the rate at which hardware requirements in games will increase, only that they will increase. Maybe the most demanding games of next year require double the muscle, or maybe that happens the year after. We know from history it's not a smooth progression anyway - look at the sudden jump in requirements when Crysis 1 was released!

 

[iceclock]

meh its all of ur needs and so on, for the most part u gotta upgrade a graphic card atleast once every 1year+ to get the max juice in ur games, but if ur sastified with lower settings no need to upgrade.

 

[jonjonjon]

At 1000 CAD with monitor included, you're looking at GTX 660. Something like this would work great:

PCPartPicker part list / Price breakdown by merchant / Benchmarks

CPU: Intel Core i5-3570K 3.4GHz Quad-Core Processor ($220.90 @ Amazon Canada)
Motherboard: Gigabyte GA-Z77X-D3H ATX LGA1155 Motherboard ($124.99 @ Canada Computers)
Memory: G.Skill Sniper 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($39.16 @ DirectCanada)
Memory: Corsair Vengeance 8GB (2 x 4GB) DDR3-1600 Memory ($33.99 @ Newegg Canada)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive ($69.99 @ NCIX)
Video Card: Asus GeForce GTX 660 2GB Video Card ($199.99 @ Canada Computers)
Case: Zalman Z9 Plus ATX Mid Tower Case ($39.99 @ NCIX)
Power Supply: XFX 550W 80 PLUS Bronze Certified ATX12V / EPS12V Power Supply ($49.99 @ NCIX)
Monitor: Asus VS247H-P 23.6" Monitor ($159.99 @ Canada Computers)
Operating System: Microsoft Windows 7 Home Premium SP1 (OEM) (64-bit) ($96.99 @ Computer Valley)
Total: $1035.98
(Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available.)
(Generated by PCPartPicker 2012-12-18 11:34 EST-0500)

Also, I'd advice getting an aftermarket CPU cooler later (in 1 year maybe?) so you could overclock the CPU to get extra performance.

i agree with most of these except imo a $1000 build needs a ssd. figure out a way to shave $90 off and get a 128GB ssd.

 

[jonjonjon]

And with regards to an inability to tell the difference, I think it's important to consider longevity / 'future-proofing'. A 7950 will look absolutely fine in most of today's games, but the frame latency problems will become much more noticeable as games become more demanding and framerates on these cards get lower with future games. To illustrate:

Today's games
- GeForce is rendering frames consistency at 12.5ms (equivalent to 80fps).
- Radeon is rendering frames inconsistently, varying from 10ms to 15ms (average is 83fps, range is 66fps to 100fps).
- Both cards are flawless.

Tomorrow's games*
- GeForce is rendering frames consistently at 25ms (equivalent to a consistently smooth 40fps).
- Radeon is rendering frames at between 20ms and 30ms (equivalent to fluctuations between 30fps and 50fps).
- GeForce delivers a much smoother, more consistently responsive experience.

* obviously nobody can predict the rate at which hardware requirements in games will increase, only that they will increase. Maybe the most demanding games of next year require double the muscle, or maybe that happens the year after. We know from history it's not a smooth progression anyway - look at the sudden jump in requirements when Crysis 1 was released!

you can always play the in the future game. what about in the future when games start using more then 2GB of vram?

 

[Sunius]

^
Doesn't really matter. Games will still launch, though the fps will drop a little bit (nothing significant). Even though Battlefield 3 supposedly uses more than 1 GB of VRAM, but it works perfectly fine on my GTX 560 Ti 1 GB at 1920x1080, high settings preset and 60 fps.